Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: We've seen a lot of comments about the size of the puzzle globe, and I don't disagree that it might benefit from being increased in size slightly. And shrinking makes the puzzle pieces - the cornerstone of the original winning design - ambiguous. How ambiguous? For example in a competitor's logo, a potato shape with the same aforementioned puzzle pieces combine optically to create the impression of a human brain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uncyclopedia.png Seriously. The classic logo clearly deliniated the puzzle pieces with strong lines. The current appears to overemphasize the shadow in the back of the sphere - making the 3-D sphere look in fact flat and a bit non-spherical /warped. -SC ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Some technical questions about the logo: 1) What software was used in making the 3D model? 2) Are the data files for that model available somewhere? (Or will they be made available?) 3) The SVG files provided appear to be based on painted wire frames rather than true 3D renderings. This makes the files more easily scalable (and more compatible with SVG in general), but it also makes the sensation of depth less realistic. Is this a deliberate choice, and if so, why? -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Robert Rohde wrote: Myself and several other people find the new Wikipedia logo to be rather disappointing. Specifically it seems too small (lots of empty white space), and the edges of the puzzle pieces lack definition when shown at the web scale. For a discussion of this, including possible tweaks to make it bolder, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#New_logo I have to say I agree. Another bad thing I don't see mentioned is gray on gray syndrome - dark gray letters on light gray background make for a very bland logo, and I believe this would be especially bad in print. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a page on Meta for discussing the new logo? Among other things, we need somewhere to discuss progress on localizing the new logo into different languages. Perhaps the old Logo page could be updated with the latest status and links to discussions on other wikis as they develop: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/Logo http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0 Thanks. I've updated [[m:Logo]] and [[m:Wikipedia/Logo]]. However, I don't think we should be localizing anymore until we figure out if the logo is going to be updated to include the suggested changes (which I think it will be). nod Sam -- meta:sj ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Hi folks, The UX team folks have prepared a new rendering of the mark and it's available for review on the Prototype wiki: http://prototype.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/Main_Page I've made a short update the conversation thread on commons here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikipedia/2.0#Logo_revisions_need_input Which is also where you can leave new feedback. I discuss some of the nuances of the appearance of the identity on other browsers there, and I think others have also pointed those out. Please take a look at the prototype version and share your comments on that commons thread. We want to get a range of opinions to ensure it looks optimal on a lot of different browser settings, and also that we consider the observations about the transition from the previous. We'll be collecting feedback through next week and we'll introduce a modification hopefully very shortly after that. FYI the identity looks really, really good in non-digital settings (printed, used in graphic applications etc). There are no major issues with how it translates into real-world objects (banners, posters, pins etc). Thanks for your input, jay On May 14, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a page on Meta for discussing the new logo? Among other things, we need somewhere to discuss progress on localizing the new logo into different languages. Perhaps the old Logo page could be updated with the latest status and links to discussions on other wikis as they develop: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/Logo http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0 Thanks. I've updated [[m:Logo]] and [[m:Wikipedia/Logo]]. However, I don't think we should be localizing anymore until we figure out if the logo is going to be updated to include the suggested changes (which I think it will be). nod Sam -- meta:sj ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org blog.wikimedia.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609, @jansonw ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
2010/5/14 Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org Hi folks, The UX team folks have prepared a new rendering of the mark and it's available for review on the Prototype wiki: http://prototype.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/Main_Page I've made a short update the conversation thread on commons here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikipedia/2.0#Logo_revisions_need_input Which is also where you can leave new feedback. I discuss some of the nuances of the appearance of the identity on other browsers there, and I think others have also pointed those out. Please take a look at the prototype version and share your comments on that commons thread. We want to get a range of opinions to ensure it looks optimal on a lot of different browser settings, and also that we consider the observations about the transition from the previous. We'll be collecting feedback through next week and we'll introduce a modification hopefully very shortly after that. FYI the identity looks really, really good in non-digital settings (printed, used in graphic applications etc). There are no major issues with how it translates into real-world objects (banners, posters, pins etc). Thanks for your input, jay -- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org blog.wikimedia.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609, @jansonw ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l That's looking much better! Fantastic. The only small thing I would change is the darkness of the visible inside of the globe, as commented by Nohat here: http://nohat.net/2010/the-awful-new-wikipedia-logo . -- Jon Harald Søby http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say that I have been eagerly awaiting this day since I saw the first designs come out of the UX team's work (about a year ago?) To anyone, volunteer or Foundation employee, who made the impending switch to Vector a possibility, I want to express my sincerest thanks. Steven Walling http://enwp.org/User:Steven_Walling It's been selectable in the user preferences for ages. -Peachey ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Myself and several other people find the new Wikipedia logo to be rather disappointing. Specifically it seems too small (lots of empty white space), and the edges of the puzzle pieces lack definition when shown at the web scale. For a discussion of this, including possible tweaks to make it bolder, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#New_logo -Robert Rohde ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
2010/5/13 Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org: SVG versions of the new globe, and the Wikipedia identity can be found here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks I don't believe all of those assets have migrated to Commons yet. Hope you won't forget to change the logo here: http://www.wikipedia.org/ :-) -- Tomek Polimerek Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.ptchem.lodz.pl/en/TomaszGanicz.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Hello! What should be my course of action if I find that the replacement of the old 3D logo with a new wannabe-Web-2.0 melted circle offends my aesthetic sense to the degree inexpressible in any human language? --vvv ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: However, I am missing why it was decided to decrease the size of the logo. It definitely looks more professional, but also somewhat less friendly to me. Maybe it is just me, maybe not - I just would like to understand the rationale first. And is there any chance that the middle horizontal line is made slightly less intense? Right now, the attention is drawn there (at least for me) instead of the open part at the top. It gives me a slight impression as if the bowl is about to burst. Which is of course a valid representation of the truth with all community uproar lately, but I don't think it should be our message :) It was jarring at first, and I'll grant that the initial shock (seriously, somehow this slipped under my radar entirely) accounts for most of my aversion, but I have to agree with Lodewijk. I couldn't quite quantify it, at first, but I think corporate vs. friendly is a good assessment—and the middle line is indeed rather distracting. Fundamentally, though, it just looks imbalanced to me. I don't mean for my personal aesthetic to in any way diminish the hard work of everyone involved in improving the logo—and in many respects, particularly in the use of a free font, it is an improvement—but... ew? Austin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: SVG versions of the new globe, and the Wikipedia identity can be found here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks I don't believe all of those assets have migrated to Commons yet. The new, smaller logo is visible now on Wikipedia. I think it needs refinement to reach professional quality. Keep in mind the logo contest that produced the previous logo - the contest winning design looked crude, but was the basis for the final version - which was arrived at after some critiquing and tweaking. -SC ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: However, I am missing why it was decided to decrease the size of the logo. It definitely looks more professional, but also somewhat less friendly to me. Maybe it is just me, maybe not - I just would like to understand the rationale first. And is there any chance that the middle horizontal line is made slightly less intense? Right now, the attention is drawn there (at least for me) instead of the open part at the top. It gives me a slight impression as if the bowl is about to burst. Which is of course a valid representation of the truth with all community uproar lately, but I don't think it should be our message :) It was jarring at first, and I'll grant that the initial shock (seriously, somehow this slipped under my radar entirely) accounts for most of my aversion, but I have to agree with Lodewijk. I think you missed it because it wasn't really discussed before as part of the vector update... right? I admit I didn't read all the announcements, but was this discussed/announced earlier? -- phoebe ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Hi, On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Victor Vasiliev vasi...@gmail.com wrote: What should be my course of action if I find that the replacement of the old 3D logo with a new wannabe-Web-2.0 melted circle offends my aesthetic sense to the degree inexpressible in any human language? I'd try to express it in Klingon; it was removed from the logo, so it would only be fair. -- Guillaume Paumier This message may contain traces of humor. Read responsibly. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:32 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote: I think you missed it because it wasn't really discussed before as part of the vector update... right? I admit I didn't read all the announcements, but was this discussed/announced earlier? That's the point I was trying not to be a jerk about—I'd like to think that I'm fairly attentive to this, particularly since the logos are a special concern of mine, but I don't remember any kind of public discussion or request for comments beforehand. Now that I look at the relevant wiki pages, it clearly wasn't any kind of secret, but I can't help but wonder if it was deliberately not made widely known. My response to Jay's message was to post links to the two image files in the hope that someone else would complain, I'm really honestly tired of being so negative. I like every concept in the discussion of the new logo. I think the font change looks fine. But the loss of contrast and definition is unfortunate— at least on my eyes and system the new image looks somewhat blurry and indistinct. But before expressing this view I went and conducted an informal taste test on my system at my office: Four our of four people prefer the old image, and while they had certainly seen the old logo before none of them are Wikipedia regulars. I am less confident about unbalanced. The old logo could also be said to be visually unbalanced and perhaps we're just used to it? None of my test subjects raised imbalance as an issue, they all commented that it was less clear. One comment was forgettable. Oh well— at least we've got something to complain about and improve. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Jay Walsh wrote: Right now volunteers are working with the new localization guide to create the hundreds of new identities needed for each language variation of Wikipedia. You can see the Commons gallery filling up here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0 This should the lesser of our concerns. This is a SVG. The file should contain the text in editable form (in Wikipedia-logo-v2-blueprint.svg it is stored as paths). Creating pngs becomes automatic. Moreover, I don't see the point of uploading hundreds of pngs. The backend should be able to handle it just fine. Localization would be placing the localized The Free Encyclopedia text in the appropiate place. Now we should focus on making it look good, getting all the feedback that is coming from them, so that we can eg. make it larger. For instance, I would make darker the border of the upper right piece. Compared with the old one, it looks too flat. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:32 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote: I think you missed it because it wasn't really discussed before as part of the vector update... right? I admit I didn't read all the announcements, but was this discussed/announced earlier? That's the point I was trying not to be a jerk about—I'd like to think that I'm fairly attentive to this, particularly since the logos are a special concern of mine, but I don't remember any kind of public discussion or request for comments beforehand. Now that I look at the relevant wiki pages, it clearly wasn't any kind of secret, but I can't help but wonder if it was deliberately not made widely known. My response to Jay's message was to post links to the two image files in the hope that someone else would complain, I'm really honestly tired of being so negative. I laughed out loud at the crescendo of people trying not to be jerks, finally reaching a reverse cascade of as long as it's been said, yeah, I was just trying to be nice before. I am less confident about unbalanced. The old logo could also be said to be visually unbalanced and perhaps we're just used to it? I'm sure that's part of it—the old one really does look a bit crowded, looking at it objectively. What makes me say unbalanced is, very simply, the ratio of text to puzzle globe. The globe just looks too small. Oh well— at least we've got something to complain about and improve. We could always go back to talking about porn on Commons. Austin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: Oh well— at least we've got something to complain about and improve. We could always go back to talking about porn on Commons. Austin n. what about Wikimania rotation? Come on, let's talk about something easy. ever hopeful, Phoebe ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, Austin Hair wrote: I am less confident about unbalanced. The old logo could also be said to be visually unbalanced and perhaps we're just used to it? I'm sure that's part of it—the old one really does look a bit crowded, looking at it objectively. What makes me say unbalanced is, very simply, the ratio of text to puzzle globe. The globe just looks too small. The globe isn't actually too small, I think it just _looks_ that way because: 1) the new logo has more space in it, in particular at the top 2) the new logo is typically viewed with Vector, which has more space around the logo than monobook did. Take a look at the new logo with ?useskin=monobook and I think you'll find it looks larger. In fact, monobook crowded the logo a bit uncomfortably. For use in Vector, I think the logo could be made larger, as it currently does not fill the space set aside for it. Vector handles the spacing; the logo doesn't need to have padding in the image as well. - --Mike -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkvsO2gACgkQst0AR/DaKHuIIgCeP6lzijRS3ErIJJrCQoYZM0gE j4wAnA6taeIa8Jew9L33axW83K8yQZgl =BrDs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Thanks, Lodewijk We've seen a lot of comments about the size of the puzzle globe, and I don't disagree that it might benefit from being increased in size slightly. I feel this might also affect the overall contrast and definition. The whole usability team is collecting feedback on this, and part of that is the overall shape and size of the identity. Thanks jay On May 13, 2010, at 5:37 AM, Lodewijk wrote: Hi Jay, thanks for your update. I am glad that the characters etc have been so thoroughly prepared, and I followed some of it - great team effort indeed. However, I am missing why it was decided to decrease the size of the logo. It definitely looks more professional, but also somewhat less friendly to me. Maybe it is just me, maybe not - I just would like to understand the rationale first. And is there any chance that the middle horizontal line is made slightly less intense? Right now, the attention is drawn there (at least for me) instead of the open part at the top. It gives me a slight impression as if the bowl is about to burst. Which is of course a valid representation of the truth with all community uproar lately, but I don't think it should be our message :) Best, Lodewijk 2010/5/13 Tomasz Ganicz polime...@gmail.com: 2010/5/13 Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org: SVG versions of the new globe, and the Wikipedia identity can be found here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks I don't believe all of those assets have migrated to Commons yet. Hope you won't forget to change the logo here: http://www.wikipedia.org/ :-) -- Tomek Polimerek Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.ptchem.lodz.pl/en/TomaszGanicz.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org blog.wikimedia.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609, @jansonw ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Kalan kalan@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 22:44, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: We've seen a lot of comments about the size of the puzzle globe, and I don't disagree that it might benefit from being increased in size slightly. I feel this might also affect the overall contrast and definition. The whole usability team is collecting feedback on this, and part of that is the overall shape and size of the identity. As demonstrated at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_logo, simply resizing and re-contrasting doesn’t help much: the shape is still poor. So this is what should be focused IMO; apparently making the logo as similar to older one as possible should be the goal. This comment on the wiki seemed especially relevant: I just want to chime in on the new logo. The previous logo, which I created, was certainly not without its flaws, but the new logo suffers greatly on an aesthetic level: it is too small, the anti-aliasing is very low quality, and most importantly, the sense of texture created by the edges of the pieces is completely lost. Finally, I am rather disappointed I was not included in the process to revamp the logo. No attempt was made to reach out to me to let me know this process was even being undertaken. Very poor job on all accounts. nohat (talk) 18:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_logo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
In regards to the new logo, 1. I like it. It looks a little odd by itself, but I think it really shines when you see it in Vector. It fits with a less boxy, sharp and jarring look like monobook has given us for years. A little larger couldn't hurt, but I'd like to remind people that a softer look for the puzzle is not inherently a bad thing. Perhaps we should give it a try for a bit before we demand revision, as anything new takes getting used to. 2. This is circumstantial I know, but if you search Twitter you'll see lots of people (i.e. readers) commenting on the new skin, and relatively few saying anything about the new logo. It seems close enough that most people might not even notice a change took place. Just my two cents, Steven Walling On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Kalan kalan@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 22:44, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: We've seen a lot of comments about the size of the puzzle globe, and I don't disagree that it might benefit from being increased in size slightly. I feel this might also affect the overall contrast and definition. The whole usability team is collecting feedback on this, and part of that is the overall shape and size of the identity. As demonstrated at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_logo, simply resizing and re-contrasting doesn’t help much: the shape is still poor. So this is what should be focused IMO; apparently making the logo as similar to older one as possible should be the goal. This comment on the wiki seemed especially relevant: I just want to chime in on the new logo. The previous logo, which I created, was certainly not without its flaws, but the new logo suffers greatly on an aesthetic level: it is too small, the anti-aliasing is very low quality, and most importantly, the sense of texture created by the edges of the pieces is completely lost. Finally, I am rather disappointed I was not included in the process to revamp the logo. No attempt was made to reach out to me to let me know this process was even being undertaken. Very poor job on all accounts. nohat (talk) 18:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_logo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Mike.lifeguard wrote: The globe isn't actually too small, I think it just _looks_ that way because: 1) the new logo has more space in it, in particular at the top 2) the new logo is typically viewed with Vector, which has more space around the logo than monobook did. Take a look at the new logo with ?useskin=monobook and I think you'll find it looks larger. In fact, monobook crowded the logo a bit uncomfortably. For use in Vector, I think the logo could be made larger, as it currently does not fill the space set aside for it. Vector handles the spacing; the logo doesn't need to have padding in the image as well. --Mike Come on. The v2 *is* smaller. Open http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png on two different tabs and switch between them. You will notice the change from italic to normal, that the W was bigger (bolder?) on the previous logo (we may want to increase it on v2) and that the ball was bigger. And by bigger I mean that on the previous logo the borders of the circle reached the left border of the W and the right of the A. The v2 goes from the middle of the W to 25% of the A. This is not a visual effect. Put your cursor on the right border of the globe and change tabs. Whoops, now there is almost a full piece to the border. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
I think you mean http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/b/bc/20100513062230!Wiki.png. On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote: Mike.lifeguard wrote: The globe isn't actually too small, I think it just _looks_ that way because: 1) the new logo has more space in it, in particular at the top 2) the new logo is typically viewed with Vector, which has more space around the logo than monobook did. Take a look at the new logo with ?useskin=monobook and I think you'll find it looks larger. In fact, monobook crowded the logo a bit uncomfortably. For use in Vector, I think the logo could be made larger, as it currently does not fill the space set aside for it. Vector handles the spacing; the logo doesn't need to have padding in the image as well. --Mike Come on. The v2 *is* smaller. Open http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png on two different tabs and switch between them. You will notice the change from italic to normal, that the W was bigger (bolder?) on the previous logo (we may want to increase it on v2) and that the ball was bigger. And by bigger I mean that on the previous logo the borders of the circle reached the left border of the W and the right of the A. The v2 goes from the middle of the W to 25% of the A. This is not a visual effect. Put your cursor on the right border of the globe and change tabs. Whoops, now there is almost a full piece to the border. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- - Brian ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Brian S wrote: I think you mean http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/b/bc/20100513062230!Wiki.png. Oh, right. I have still cached the nohat version on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DragonHawk/2010_logo#Comparison That's the clearest demonstration of the difference in size. New and Old compared. Both images are 250pixels wide. They should be basically equal, but are not. Those 2 images also clearly show the difference in detail, and why people are calling the new logo flat, and the middle-line too distinct. The unbalanced problem, is possibly due to the location of the individual glyphs within each separate puzzle piece. Previously, the glyphs were more in line with each other (the glyphs were almost parallel horizontally, if the globe was rotated to be straight). The new logo changes that, and places the glyphs in a distinct zigzag, up and down, around each horizontal band. This unbalance however is something that we might just need to get used to. A rotating animation might make it clearer what the intention is. The size and flatness however are severe problems. Hope that helps. Quiddity On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: Thanks, Lodewijk We've seen a lot of comments about the size of the puzzle globe, and I don't disagree that it might benefit from being increased in size slightly. I feel this might also affect the overall contrast and definition. The whole usability team is collecting feedback on this, and part of that is the overall shape and size of the identity. Thanks jay ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 5:00 AM, Kalan kalan@gmail.com wrote: As demonstrated at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT#New_logo, simply resizing and re-contrasting doesn’t help much: the shape is still poor. So this is what should be focused IMO; apparently making the logo as similar to older one as possible should be the goal. To make it similar to the old one, yes. At the moment it's similar to the old old one (the original puzzle globe was more contrasty than the version we had most recently). Given that we're working here with a 2D render of the 3D model of the logo, these are just teething issues with finding exactly the right parameters (lighting, amount of AA, other postprocessing, etc) for the render. Would the people working on the logo be able to make the 3D model available for people to play with? -- Stephen Bain stephen.b...@gmail.com ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Vector is lovely, and continues to grow on me for browsing. Thank you to everyone who has worked on it! On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: The first major change you'll see is a slightly different looking Wikipedia puzzle globe. Over a year ago the Foundation began to It's great to see svg code that people can hack on. Is there a page on Meta for discussing the new logo? Among other things, we need somewhere to discuss progress on localizing the new logo into different languages. Perhaps the old Logo page could be updated with the latest status and links to discussions on other wikis as they develop: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/Logo Sam -- meta:sj ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
Hi folks, Over the next day or so you'll be seeing some exciting changes to the Wikipedia user interface as Vector rolls out across English Wikipedia. In an earlier note on that topic, User Experience team project manager Naoko Komura mentioned another change - one that will bring some small improvements to the Wikipedia identity, namely the Wikipedia puzzle globe and the construction of the Wikipedia wordmark - the word and sentence underneath the puzzle globe. The first major change you'll see is a slightly different looking Wikipedia puzzle globe. Over a year ago the Foundation began to recognize the need to have the puzzle globe logo improved slightly - mostly because we had some errors in the type characters featured in the puzzle globe, and also because we needed a better quality version that could print better and at a larger scale. We also needed to do that without dramatically changing one of the most recognized and beloved logos on the internet. It seemed like an opportune moment to take our 2D globe, lovingly created by WP user:Nohat and improved/modified a cast of many other volunteers back in 2003, and take it to a truly 3D object. If we were going to undertake this process, we knew we would first need to populate the 'dark side of the puzzle globe' - and of course we turned to our volunteers to do just that. Cary Bass worked with a team of volunteers to begin that process, and to revisit the many suggested and improvised fixes to the globe that have taken place over the years. Most of that discussion played out on a meta page here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/Logo The results are fantastic, and now you can see many new languages and scripts represented. The final state for our puzzle globe is quite similar to the original, fixes some errors, and has replaced the Klingon logo with an Amharic character. The actual 3D construction of the new mark was carried out by a professional 3D animator, art director, and graphic designer, Philip Metschan, who is based in the SF Bay Area. Through his career Philip has worked for Industrial Light and Magic and Pixar, and currently he's also a visualization and concept artist for the DIRECT program (not surprisingly, it can be learned about on Wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIRECT). We've created a new page on the Foundation wiki that talks about the revised 3D globe as well as the other improvements underway to the wordmark: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks/About_the_official_Marks You'll notice that the new variation of the typeface uses Linux Libertine as an alternative to Hoeffler, the original typeface used to create the wordmark. In order to facilitate the creation of so many new variations of the Wikipedia identity it was important to find a viable alternative - Hoeffler is a commercial typeface that not every project would have access to, nor own. Linux Libertine is very close to Hoeffler in its shape and style, and for on-screen viewing is almost identical to Hoeffler. The User Experience team also investigated another minor improvement: replacing the italicized The Free Encyclopedia with regular typeface. This ultimately resulted in improved on-screen readability, particularly in non-roman character sets. Right now volunteers are working with the new localization guide to create the hundreds of new identities needed for each language variation of Wikipedia. You can see the Commons gallery filling up here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/2.0 If you're interested in supporting this effort you can simply follow the guide referenced on the page, or reach out to the Foundation's volunteer coordinator, Cary Bass, directly, c...@wikimedia.org. It will take some time to create all of the marks, and initially the ops and User Experience team are rolling out the new identity on English Wikipedia and then focussing on other languages as soon as possible. Hopefully the millions of dedicated users of Wikipedia will appreciate this minor improvement to the Wikipedia identity across all of the project languages. This is also a great new tool for chapter and volunteer representatives around the world - this scalable, crisper version of the new puzzle globe is easier to work with in a variety of situations, but retains the character and look of its predecessor. As with any important identity, I'm certain it will see further evolutions and improvements. We're open to hearing your thoughts and views for the next iteration. Later today we'll also be posting this news to the Wikimedia blog, alongside updated news about the Vector roll-out, scheduled to unfold over the next 12 hours. I'd like to thank again the dozens of volunteers who have worked over the last year+ to navigate the challenge of filling up this now 3D globe with new symbols and marks, and the countless others who have scrutinized the first drafts of the logo to
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: It seemed like an opportune moment to take our 2D globe, lovingly created by WP user:Nohat and improved/modified a cast of many other volunteers back in 2003, and take it to a truly 3D object. If we were going to undertake this process, we knew we would first need to populate the 'dark side of the puzzle globe' - and of course we turned to our volunteers to do just that. [snip] You'll notice that the new variation of the typeface uses Linux Libertine as an alternative to Hoeffler, the original typeface used to create the wordmark. In order to facilitate the creation of so many new variations of the Wikipedia identity it was important to find a viable alternative - Hoeffler is a commercial typeface that not every project would have access to, nor own. Linux Libertine is very close to Hoeffler in its shape and style, and for on-screen viewing is almost identical to Hoeffler. [snip] I found the concept of these two improvements very exciting. Here are direct links to the old and new images for comparison: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
I looked but could not find an SVG version of the new logo without text on Commons for those who would wish to update sister project templates on non-Wikipedia projects. Basically, it would be a cropped version of http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-puzzleglobe-V2.svg and at Commons. If that could be added I would appreciate it. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
SVG versions of the new globe, and the Wikipedia identity can be found here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks I don't believe all of those assets have migrated to Commons yet. On May 12, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Aaron Adrignola wrote: I looked but could not find an SVG version of the new logo without text on Commons for those who would wish to update sister project templates on non-Wikipedia projects. Basically, it would be a cropped version of http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-puzzleglobe-V2.svg and at Commons. If that could be added I would appreciate it. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org blog.wikimedia.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609, @jansonw ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Along with Vector, a new look for changes to the Wikipedia identity
I have to say that I have been eagerly awaiting this day since I saw the first designs come out of the UX team's work (about a year ago?) To anyone, volunteer or Foundation employee, who made the impending switch to Vector a possibility, I want to express my sincerest thanks. Steven Walling http://enwp.org/User:Steven_Walling On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Jay Walsh jwa...@wikimedia.org wrote: SVG versions of the new globe, and the Wikipedia identity can be found here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_official_marks I don't believe all of those assets have migrated to Commons yet. On May 12, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Aaron Adrignola wrote: I looked but could not find an SVG version of the new logo without text on Commons for those who would wish to update sister project templates on non-Wikipedia projects. Basically, it would be a cropped version of http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-puzzleglobe-V2.svgand at Commons. If that could be added I would appreciate it. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org blog.wikimedia.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609, @jansonw ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
