Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal...@wikimedia.org. It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. «00:18 +sgardner If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is where to send them» (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27 ). I hope this is enough. Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Hi, I would say when you aren't sure or you think you are sure but don't have a source just don't answer? Best, Huib ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Nemo, It is in fact correct. I can confirm this, because I am the primary person who screens those questions that come in to legal-en. Sue or Steven can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm 99% sure that they misspoke -- le...@wikimedia has been a broken and useless address for long before I started working for the WMF. -Dan Rosenthal On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal...@wikimedia.org. It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. «00:18 +sgardner If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is where to send them» (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27 ). I hope this is enough. Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Jon, That must be a new change about le...@wikimedia.org, as the email didn't work as of a few weeks ago. I wasn't aware of that. However, from a policy perspective, we've always screened the email first at legal...@wikimedia.org before sending it on to the GC. So in fact, that would still be the better place for it to go. -Dan On Dec 16, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Jon Davis wrote: I've been taking care of these aliases, so to be clear: * le...@wikimedia.org is a good and valid address to use*. It is an alias that goes to the correct person(s), being our interim legal council. When we get a new full time council, the alias will be repointed to them. So le...@wikimedia.org will always be a good and safe bet. -Jon On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 07:28, Dan Rosenthal swatjes...@gmail.com wrote: That email is incorrect. The direct email is legal...@wikimedia.org. As far as I know, simply le...@wikimedia.org forwards to bo...@wikimedia.org or some other email address; either way, not where it needs to go. -Dan On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Huib Laurens wrote: Hello, As far as I know: le...@wikimedia.org Best, Huib ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jon Davis Office IT System Network Administrator Wikimedia Foundation 415-839-6885 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Correction. I've just seen Jon's email about having fixed le...@. However, it is still preferable to send legal email to legal...@wikimedia.org for a faster resolution and for ease on our end. Nobody has made the OTRS team (especially the legal team) aware of any policy changes on that end, so if something major has changed without telling us, someone's got some explaining to do. -Dan On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal...@wikimedia.org. It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. «00:18 +sgardner If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is where to send them» (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27 ). I hope this is enough. Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use le...@wikimedia.org why are you changing it? Best, Huib 2010/12/18 Dan Rosenthal swatjes...@gmail.com Correction. I've just seen Jon's email about having fixed le...@. However, it is still preferable to send legal email to legal...@wikimedia.org for a faster resolution and for ease on our end. Nobody has made the OTRS team (especially the legal team) aware of any policy changes on that end, so if something major has changed without telling us, someone's got some explaining to do. -Dan On Dec 18, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Dan Rosenthal, 17/12/2010 01:01: If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal...@wikimedia.org. It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. «00:18 +sgardner If anyone (editors, chapters people, etc.) have legal questions or problems, Steven's correct -- legal_AT_wikimedia.org is where to send them» (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2010-10-27). I hope this is enough. Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Regards, Huib Abigor Laurens Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use le...@wikimedia.org why are you changing it? Best, Huib wasn't legal-en@ about english queries? in any case, it makes more sense to have legal@ for a *foundation* contact, and then have legal-en as a subqueue for english wikipedia (and related projects) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Pedro- Correct, it's just set up wrong on OTRS. Right now Legal@ is not even an OTRS email address. If it were, we could then structure it so the languages were subqueues. But that'd require legal@ becoming an OTRS email address. Huib - The staff (myself and Jon) are saying two different, contradictory things. We are trying to figure out if this is because of an undiscussed change of policy, or because Jon misspoke. It is of major concern, because if all legal emails are now going directly to the interim GC, then what is the point of having a legal queue for OTRS? But none of this was ever discussed with us, making me think that it is more likely just a mistake. The policy as long as I've been answering emails for the legal queue (and to be clear, it was still the policy when I started working full time for the foundation and at a meeting about a month ago it was still the policy) was that legal emails were to go through OTRS, where they would be routed into the legal queue (more accurately, the legal-en queue. We also have a very full legal-it subqueue and some specific trademark subqueues.) Those emails would then be screened by the OTRS legal volunteers, and some would be answered or weeded out there. The more important ones would be forwarded on to the General Counsel (or now, Interim General Counsel). Why would it make sense at all to get rid of the screening on OTRS, without discussion with the OTRS team, and suddenly route ALL emails directly to the Interim General Counsel. Does that make any logical sense? Again, this is why I think that there has been a mistake somewhere. We're emailing internally to figure out what the right answer is. -Dan (PS: this is my personal account, my staff account is not subscribed to foundation-l). On Dec 18, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Pedro Sanchez wrote: On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use le...@wikimedia.org why are you changing it? Best, Huib wasn't legal-en@ about english queries? in any case, it makes more sense to have legal@ for a *foundation* contact, and then have legal-en as a subqueue for english wikipedia (and related projects) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use le...@wikimedia.org why are you changing it? Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both actually right, but in different ways. Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a staffer too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and everything else related to Office IT. Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer. Here's the full story/background, as far as I know: Traditionally, we never really published a legal address. All complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact address (i...@wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc. Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them, we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about. More recently, a legal@ alias has been created which goes straight to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good idea anyway. :-) As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear that neither of them is really wrong or calling each other a liar. :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Kibble, you never cease to amaze. Much 3. That's a great summary. -Dan On Dec 18, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Casey Brown wrote: On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use le...@wikimedia.org why are you changing it? Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both actually right, but in different ways. Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a staffer too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and everything else related to Office IT. Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer. Here's the full story/background, as far as I know: Traditionally, we never really published a legal address. All complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact address (i...@wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc. Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them, we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about. More recently, a legal@ alias has been created which goes straight to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good idea anyway. :-) As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear that neither of them is really wrong or calling each other a liar. :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
My bad. Casey is 100% correct. I was simply giving the technical answer, as the user asked for the legal department - not to say that this is the best answer. In the grand scheme of things, If Dan says Yes, Legal@ works but you should use legal-en@ instead - listen to Dan. He knows what he's talking about. -Jon PS. Casey, are you spying on me? Because you're creepy good at knowing all these little bits ^_^ On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:24, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Please stop it: this is incorrect and perhaps you should at least double check if someone says it's incorrect, especially after a WMF staffer like Jon has confirmed so. On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Why are you saying the staff answer is wrong? If staff says use le...@wikimedia.org why are you changing it? Wow, you guys need to stop being so accusatory and rude; please stop assuming bad faith. No one's calling anyone a liar and they're both actually right, but in different ways. Dan's working with the Foundation for the fundraiser (so he's a staffer too), was an early legal intern, and has manned the legal queue on OTRS for years. Jon is a relatively new staffer with Office IT who's been helping cleanup e-mail addresses, aliases, and everything else related to Office IT. Stated simply, Jon was giving a *technical* answer, while Dan was giving a more *procedural* and policy-based answer. Here's the full story/background, as far as I know: Traditionally, we never really published a legal address. All complaints/issues were directed to the general Wikimedia contact address (i...@wikimedia), which leads to OTRS. These complaints were then later sorted to their proper destination: info-en, another language queue, out to a staff member, to the legal queue, etc. Tickets needing legal team attention, like from real lawyers talking about litigation, went to the legal queue. Since the legal queue/team is quite small and most people do not actually need to talk to them, we never publicized the direct address to the legal queue... this is the legal-en@ address that Dan's talking about. More recently, a legal@ alias has been created which goes straight to the current/interim General Counsel. I would assume that the reason this was created was because the Foundation has started using aliases a lot more. They probably didn't realize that we intentionally didn't make that address since most people didn't actually *need* the GC... or they did realize that, but decided it wouldn't be an issue anymore and decided that an alias would be a good idea anyway. :-) As Dan says, they'll need to figure out internally how mail should be redirected properly and how to make the best use of both the legal team and the interim GC's times. However, I wanted to make it clear that neither of them is really wrong or calling each other a liar. :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jon Davis Office IT System Network Administrator Wikimedia Foundation 415-839-6885 x6777 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
Hello, As far as I know: le...@wikimedia.org Best, Huib ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 06:12, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: How can one contact the Foundation's legal department nowadays? I can find no contact email address, just the WMF Legal user account and I would rather not leave a message on the talk page. Why are you trying to contact them? The best method of contact will really depend on what the topic is - informal correspondence about article contents, formal notice of legal action, DMCA copyright complaint, request for re-use of a WMF trademark, etc. In many cases you may not even need to deal with the Foundation's counsel. -- Jim Redmond [[User:Jredmond]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
That email is incorrect. The direct email is legal...@wikimedia.org. As far as I know, simply le...@wikimedia.org forwards to bo...@wikimedia.org or some other email address; either way, not where it needs to go. -Dan On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Huib Laurens wrote: Hello, As far as I know: le...@wikimedia.org Best, Huib ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
I've been taking care of these aliases, so to be clear: * le...@wikimedia.org is a good and valid address to use*. It is an alias that goes to the correct person(s), being our interim legal council. When we get a new full time council, the alias will be repointed to them. So le...@wikimedia.org will always be a good and safe bet. -Jon On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 07:28, Dan Rosenthal swatjes...@gmail.com wrote: That email is incorrect. The direct email is legal...@wikimedia.org. As far as I know, simply le...@wikimedia.org forwards to bo...@wikimedia.org or some other email address; either way, not where it needs to go. -Dan On Dec 16, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Huib Laurens wrote: Hello, As far as I know: le...@wikimedia.org Best, Huib ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Jon Davis Office IT System Network Administrator Wikimedia Foundation 415-839-6885 ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
WMF Legal has a email assigned to it, so you can email it via the wiki interface if you would like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/WMF_Legal ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] How to contact the foundation's legal department?
That might work, but it is the least ideal way of getting in touch. If you have a legal question, best to send it to legal...@wikimedia.org. It will be routed much faster and is much preferable. -Dan On Dec 16, 2010, at 6:29 PM, K. Peachey wrote: WMF Legal has a email assigned to it, so you can email it via the wiki interface if you would like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/WMF_Legal ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
