Re: [Foundation-l] Iran plans to turn off Internet
Perhaps if Iran makes this official publicly, or they actually do it, the Foundation, or maybe some volunteers, can respond via the blog? At least that gets it into the discourse - but doesn't commit the Foundation itself to anything. I'm optimistic it will be resolved first through political back channels - but you never know... On Jan 11, 2012, at 12:08 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Mono mium monom...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately, the kind of political action editors wished to promote in situations like Italy or the USA wouldn't have the same effect in more restrictive countries like China or Iran. This is not accurate. People are inspired by actions in faraway places, and acheive remarkable things. A finnish master of a secret society was ambassador to France while also Benjamin Franklin wa there, and they had discourses on the possibility of Finnish independence (following the precepts of Continental US independence). Amusingly enough Franklin thought that Finnish independence was a pipe dream. But the secret society did achieve in putting in force the motions that do make Finland an independent motion. The point there is, that had there not been the US ideal of independence, the whole plot might have been lost, and there need never have been any [[Anjala conspiracy]]. -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran plans to turn off Internet
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Mono mium monom...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately, the kind of political action editors wished to promote in situations like Italy or the USA wouldn't have the same effect in more restrictive countries like China or Iran. This is not accurate. People are inspired by actions in faraway places, and acheive remarkable things. A finnish master of a secret society was ambassador to France while also Benjamin Franklin wa there, and they had discourses on the possibility of Finnish independence (following the precepts of Continental US independence). Amusingly enough Franklin thought that Finnish independence was a pipe dream. But the secret society did achieve in putting in force the motions that do make Finland an independent motion. The point there is, that had there not been the US ideal of independence, the whole plot might have been lost, and there need never have been any [[Anjala conspiracy]]. -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]] ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran plans to turn off Internet
Unfortunately, the kind of political action editors wished to promote in situations like Italy or the USA wouldn't have the same effect in more restrictive countries like China or Iran. On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Gregory Varnum gregory.var...@gmail.comwrote: Given the conversations about Bosnia and SOPA, I felt this was worth mentioning. There are a number of stories online about the government limiting Internet access within Iran: http://mashable.com/2012/01/06/iran-intranet-tests/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57354267-83/iran-squeezes-web-surfers-prepares-censored-national-intranet/ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203513604577142713916386248.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Please note that I'm not volunteering to help with any actions (sorry) and not (yet) necessarily advocating for or against action. However, I felt it was worth mentioning topic given recent discussions and the obvious conflict this presents for Wikimedia's interest in accessing any parts of Iran. I also have it from a reliable source that their government is indeed planning on a total Internet shut off in two weeks. I'm not comfortable sharing more on a public listserv, but if you have a logical reason for needing to know, email me off-list and I'll share more. :) Based on how I learned this, I suspect bloggers and others will be reporting on this soon (if they aren't already). Feel free to consider it wild speculation until then (and even after that if you'd like - I don't mind either way), but I'm confident in the source and that their government is preparing for these actions. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail before it gets out of hand. In the interest of getting discussion going, I'll refrain from sharing my own personal take on what's likely to happen. :) -greg aka varnent --- Gregory Varnum Lead, Aequalitas Project Lead Administrator, WikiQueer Founding Principal, VarnEnt @GregVarnum fb.com/GregVarnum ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
David Gerard wrote: 2009/6/21 Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net: Sure, transparency is a problem, but its absence alone does not imply fraud. It hurts the Iranian authorities even more if the vote count is accurate because nobody believes them. Evidence the numbers were made up: humans are not very good at picking random numbers: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/20/AR200906204.html Evidence disappears when spoiled ballots are included: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8ufal/at_last_a_statistical_smoking_gun_at_the_995/c0agxwd (Haven't checked myself though.) ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
Robert Rohde wrote: On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote: While there may very well have been widespread fraud, that alone wouldn't be enough to explain away a 29 percentage point spread. A strong line of national security scare-mongering is always good source of votes in the less educated parts of a country. We hear a lot about what is happening in Tehran, but very little about the rest of the country. It's easy to explain any margin you want when there are no monitors, no reporting of local tallies, and vote aggregation is controlled by a small group in one government agency. It's basically a matter of changing numbers in a spreadsheet. Regardless of what actually happened, it is pretty clear that the process of voting in Iran lacks the fundamental transparency necessary to provide confidence in the results. Sure, transparency is a problem, but its absence alone does not imply fraud. It hurts the Iranian authorities even more if the vote count is accurate because nobody believes them. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
2009/6/21 Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net: Sure, transparency is a problem, but its absence alone does not imply fraud. It hurts the Iranian authorities even more if the vote count is accurate because nobody believes them. Evidence the numbers were made up: humans are not very good at picking random numbers: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/20/AR200906204.html (This is way off-topic ...) - d. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:00 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Evidence the numbers were made up: humans are not very good at picking random numbers: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/20/AR200906204.html (This is way off-topic ...) Convincing, surely, but not as definitive as reports that the Interior Ministry in Tehran (where votes are counted) remained closed during and after the election, with doors locked against employees who would otherwise be tallying ballots. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 3:00 PM, philippephilippe.w...@gmail.com wrote: Just wondering whether anyone's had a check in from any of our wikimedians in Iran? Any safety reports on our folks? Good question. I just know that Mardetanha (a steward) is physically good and frustrated with election results. But, he is not living in Tehran. I'll ask people at fa.wp to send to me information what is going on with them. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
Thanks, Milos... i was concerned about Mardetanha because of my connection to him on Elec Comm, good to know he's well. Now let's see what we can find out about the rest of our folks! Thanks. On Jun 20, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Milos Rancic wrote: Good question. I just know that Mardetanha (a steward) is physically good and frustrated with election results. But, he is not living in Tehran. I'll ask people at fa.wp to send to me information what is going on with them. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
I've got the first report. There are no information that something happened to any Wikimedian. Take a look at [1]. I don't expect bigger scale problems in Iran, but not just because of that analysis. Except theocratic structures, preset situation in Iran reminds me a lot to the situation in Serbia during late period of Milosevic. State structures without connection to reality have to reform themselves or they'll be replaced. Fortunately, [ordinary] Iranians don't want war because still fresh memories to war between Iraq and Iran. The situation was similar in 2000 in Serbia. [1] - http://www.ted.com/talks/bruce_bueno_de_mesquita_predicts_iran_s_future.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
Milos Rancic wrote: I've got the first report. There are no information that something happened to any Wikimedian. Take a look at [1]. I don't expect bigger scale problems in Iran, but not just because of that analysis. Except theocratic structures, preset situation in Iran reminds me a lot to the situation in Serbia during late period of Milosevic. State structures without connection to reality have to reform themselves or they'll be replaced. Fortunately, [ordinary] Iranians don't want war because still fresh memories to war between Iraq and Iran. The situation was similar in 2000 in Serbia. [1] - http://www.ted.com/talks/bruce_bueno_de_mesquita_predicts_iran_s_future.html Nuclear weaponry in Iran may a concern to powerful western countries, but I don't see it as being a major factor in the country's internal politics. While there may very well have been widespread fraud, that alone wouldn't be enough to explain away a 29 percentage point spread. A strong line of national security scare-mongering is always good source of votes in the less educated parts of a country. We hear a lot about what is happening in Tehran, but very little about the rest of the country. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?
2009/6/20 Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net: Milos Rancic wrote: I've got the first report. There are no information that something happened to any Wikimedian. Take a look at [1]. I don't expect bigger scale problems in Iran, but not just because of that analysis. Except theocratic structures, preset situation in Iran reminds me a lot to the situation in Serbia during late period of Milosevic. State structures without connection to reality have to reform themselves or they'll be replaced. Fortunately, [ordinary] Iranians don't want war because still fresh memories to war between Iraq and Iran. The situation was similar in 2000 in Serbia. [1] - http://www.ted.com/talks/bruce_bueno_de_mesquita_predicts_iran_s_future.html Nuclear weaponry in Iran may a concern to powerful western countries, but I don't see it as being a major factor in the country's internal politics. While there may very well have been widespread fraud, that alone wouldn't be enough to explain away a 29 percentage point spread. A strong line of national security scare-mongering is always good source of votes in the less educated parts of a country. We hear a lot about what is happening in Tehran, but very little about the rest of the country. Believe me that it is possibly to fraud an election and shift the real results completely :-) History knows many of such examples. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_people%27s_referendum,_1946 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_general_election,_1946 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Vietnam_referendum,_1955 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud I don't know if it happened in Iran or not - I think we will know it for sure not eariler that 50 years from know, or maybe even never... -- Tomek Polimerek Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.ptchem.lodz.pl/en/TomaszGanicz.html ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
