Re: [fpc-devel] Freepascal made chm compiler test file
Hi, I've been working on a chm compiler that uses no external libs so it works on linux and windows etc. Attached is a test.chm file and I'd like to know if it works for you. It seems to work on winxp sp1 and older but winxp sp2 doesn't. it should contain a logo from lazarus and this text: It works on winXP SP2, at least on my machine. -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] crossfpc?
Meanwhile, I'm sorry to say, we are almost halfway May, and we still haven't seen anything. Looking at the article posted here about the Delphi roadmap, I would say that Simon Kissel has decided to put his money on Codegear anyway (I assume he's a businessman, so one cannot blame him for that). Which leads me to conclude that CrossFPC has once more been abandoned. Ah, too bad. :( Yes, we can't blame Simon for his decision. Is there a way to get CrossFPC live without being bothered by copyright issue? I believe you're one of the selected crowd. :-D -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] crossfpc?
If I do find something (I need to check my PC at work) then I'll send it in private. Thank you, Michael. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] what fpc is good for?
No, it is not good to be considered. He complains we don't care about speed or size. I have to correct him: We care, if we can optimize something we will. As a proof FPC 2.2 will both generate faster code and generate smaller exes. I believe FPC people do really care about speed and size since FPC is a compiler. I think the article isn't merely for FPC, but for Lazarus as well. If you don't consider FPC usefull for GUI programming, apparently he does't, the LCL disappears, and the problem disappears. No way you manage to generate 3MB exes without LCL. Agree. The size problem mostly come from LCL framework. I do understand the problem, but somehow other people are being scared by that. Somehow they forgot that .Net or Java framework requires lot bigger than LCL does. Meanwhile, we are near the top for speed, and at the top for memory usage: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=alllang=all I've been a while no longer visiting the shootout. But.. whoo that is indeed VERY IMPRESSIVE! Watch what happens with those numbers when 2.2 is out. You guys have done a great job! Thank you and congratulations! :) There is nothing in this article we can consider, for starters because it does not contain any proposals. As I said, maybe the article is more suitable for Lazarus people. ;) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] what fpc is good for?
Nicely put. ;) I've found it has good points on some arguments. It's good to be considered. :) Yes, but the language used puts off some people. Yup. Sometimes Lars sounds to aggresive. :-D As far as I know, Lars is a FPC fan, and he merely wishes to express concern about some of the issues he has with FPC (I'll leave the matter of whether his concerns are justified up to others to comment on). Yes, like the rest of us here, he's also a big fan of FPC. He even using FPC and PWU professionally, he makes his living over FPC. So, he's not the enemy! He knows all the best of FPC and Lazarus because he uses them on daily basis. PWU is one of his contribution back to the FPC community. If you start with an exaggerated opionion, you can expect exaggerated reactions. Yes. Maybe it's my fault if everybody then looks at him in a negative way because of his own article. But, he published that article in his public paswiki, somebody else will find it anyway, sooner or later. It only goes to demonstrate that to be truly critical and constructive at the same time is by no means an easy exercise. Anyway, it did happened to me as well long time ago. ;) Programming language community is indeed a very sensitive community, we must write in a very polite manner if we want to criticize anything about the language. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] what fpc is good for?
http://z505.com/cgi-bin/qkcont/qkcont.cgi?p=Might%20As%20Well%20Use%20Dot%20Net%20In%20Place%20of%20FPC Nicely put. ;) I've found it has good points on some arguments. It's good to be considered. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] What I've been using Free Pascal For... Jegas Information Server (JIS)
Pixel is a good product. That it is closed source, written in FPC, is a plus: it shows that FPC is open and suitable for both open source and commercial development. I never said Pixel is not a good product, indeed it's a great product. But I doubt it add significant acknowledgment to FPC as it's a closed source product. People don't know (and don't care) if a product is made up using FPC or not since people can't see the code. -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] What I've been using Free Pascal For... Jegas Information Server (JIS)
I've been very busy using Free Pascal and I wanted to show what can be done with Free Pascal. I know the core development team will not be surprised but other developers and indecisive C++ programmers who are tuned in might be! Congratulations, Jason! You're one of my Pascal heroes. I know you have done many things using FPC. I really am not sure how or if this should become an open source project or not - but I am not opposed to the idea. Your product is awesome. If you want to make FPC got noticed by the world (especially C/C++ developers out there) by using this application, I suggest you to make this application open source. Another great application using FPC that's not able to show FPC off is Pixel, because the the author insists to make it closed source (and commercial). I'm not trying to sell this system to any one here but I'm just getting the ball rolling as far as bringing this system to fruition. Or at least, you can make it dual-license ala mySQL, if you want to get some advantages over it. About the database backend, actually I prefer to choose Firebird because it has same spirit as FPC: good product for free (without any additional terms). FPC+Firebird+LightHTTPd is unbeatable combinations, they're all free, multiplatform, and great. :) I hope I have put Free Pascal in a good light and have correctly represented it. Yes, I believe you do. I'll help to spread this product in some communities where I involved in. -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] va(r)_arg vs open array
For example: %d/%d/%d (dd/mm/) Hello %s(Mr). %s (Van Der Voot), Thank you for interesting in our %s(product). %s (Marco) we are more then happy to help you and give you additional information about %s (product). You can either call us at the phone number of 1234567890 extension %d (1) for customer support. You can also contact our sails department at phone number 1234567890 extension %d (666) for upgrading your %s (product), or just to ask additional questions. You can also contact our support team at the email of [EMAIL PROTECTED] (support/product name). Regards, Abraham Lincolen, Late US president. If this is really the case that cause you demand var_args feature, then obviously you have problem with your software design. I agree with Marco. :) I wrote a program to solve a problem exactly like this without need of var_args feature. Even though var_args is provided, I won't use it either, since -IMO- var_args isn't the correct way to solve this kind of problem. The above problem can be solved easily with a simple find-and-replace-like algorithm. IMO, basically this is a template filling. Just put a unique tags on every place that need to be filled with a value. Parse the template and replace every tag with appropriate value and format. Likely this must be done by a specialized class for this purpose. With this solution, my program can do the job very well with more than 200 kind of tags on more than 20 kind of templates (and increasing by the day). The users can even build their own template(s) through a template builder wizard from my application. I believe the wizard can't be easily build just using var_args. Your sample above, using my solution will become a template like this (less or more): For example: DATE:TODAY Hello CUSTOMER:TITLE. CUSTOMER:LAST_NAME, Thank you for interesting in our PRODUCT:NAME. CUSTOMER:FIRST_NAME we are more then happy to help you and give you additional information about PRODUCT:NAME. You can either call us at the phone number of 1234567890 extension PHONE_EXT:CUSTOMER_SUPPORT for customer support. You can also contact our sails department at phone number 1234567890 extension PHONE_EXT:PRODUCT_UPGRADE for upgrading your PRODUCT:NAME, or just to ask additional questions. You can also contact our support team at the email of PRODUCT:EMAIL. Regards, DIRECTOR:FULL_NAME, JOB_TITLE:DIRECTOR. Or am I missing something here? -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] FPC 2.0.4 release candidate 1 testing
Just a little suggestion... I think we should inform any progress of FPC development on the website. Maybe this has been informed through the Wiki, but I believe not every visitor have time to look at the Wiki. Just like what Firebird project does, they inform every RC on the website. Just my 2 cents. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Generics
It isn't clear to me what the current status about Generics is: http://www.freepascal.org/wiki/index.php/Generics http://www.dummzeuch.de/delphi/object_pascal_templates/english.html http://community.borland.com/article/0,1410,27603,00.html -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] space char inside identifier's name
After trying out Morfix for some hours, I found very interesting feature of the implemented object Pascal language. Morfix Pascal allows space char within the identifier's name. If space char is used, then the name MUST BE enclosed within a double-quote char pair. Here are some examples: type Main Form: TForm; var this is a integer variable: integer; if Main Form.Left = 10 then ... procedure Main Form.Edit Change(Event: TDOMEvent); I think this is a interesting feature to be supported. Though this is not too essential, but sometimes it is required or demanded. At least if we want FPC more Morfix compatible. I know it looks more VB-ish or MS-ish, but if it is good, why not? :) The implementation of it in the compiler is not too difficult, IMO. Some RTL source code modification is required though. CMIIW. :) What's your opinion? -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] space char inside identifier's name
WWWHHH! *Falls off chair* *grabs desk* *pulls up* Clear enough ? ;-) Same respond when the first time I knew that file name is case-sensitive in un*x-like OSes (Linux, etc). It looks silly and ridicilous (especially for M$ users), but most people still use it (the users like it even more). :P -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] space char inside identifier's name
I cannot imagine situations where it would be required or demanded (maybe desirable, but I don't so). In what cases would it be required or demanded? Say I'm gonna make some kind of game maker application, where user can create game objects. It sure the game objects need name as their identifier. For ease of use, I can make object's name more space-char-friendly because the user of the application is not always a programmer (they even can't understand why an object's name can't accept space char). If the compiler supports space char inside identifier's name, I don't need to do some kind of convertion from game maker object's name to internal game maker identifier's name because I can grab it directly from the application. Of course, I can translate game maker objects name into Object1 to ObjectN, but it's not favorable. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] space char inside identifier's name
Foo a.bar a := baz b[4].foo q You made a very excessive example. Of course we don't HAVE TO use space char all the times. I won't use it that way either. But it's there when we really want/need it. is harder to read! It's not the char itself, it's that it's used all over the place whenever this is used. I don't like it. Maybe you don't like it and that's alright. This feature won't harm you in any ways. But some other people could demand it in some circumstances. -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] space char inside identifier's name
It doesn't look like joke anymore, so I ask: in what aspect (except double double quotes) the space sign is different from the underline sign? In most cases when we write codes by hand, I know this feature is almost useless. But for automated or generated codes like example I had given in another email, this feature will help alot. And if it is, why don't use arbitrary length names with carriage returns, pictures, music and videos: just use url as the name... (fast connection required for compiling) You don't need to hyperbola my suggestion. Everybody knows we don't need those inside an identifier name, those are not even a name by the way. Name is a text, and most people (except programmers) can't understand why a space char can't be accepted as part of a name. This is just a suggestion anyway, it means can be accepted or rejected. I can accept any conclusion/decision from the FPC core development team. So, you don't need to over-react your responds. Just give your reasonable arguments, no matter you're agree or disagree with me. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] space char inside identifier's name
That is wrong. If the possibility exists, it will be used (at least in some cases by some people). In many cases this code will have to be maintained by different people too. There will be guys which can't stand this kind of identifiers but they are forced to use it. So this feature renders to a limitation of freedom and productivity of programmers. I believe the possibility does always exist, since some language does allow it. But not in very much demanded though. The proposed idea has big drawbacks: - code gets unreadable and unmaintainable (eye-ball search for mating '' chars, finding seperations between identifiers) - the linker doesn't support special chars inside variable names so automatic name manging would be necessary - people are stimulated to use identifiers in their natural language instead of short and pregnant keywords - somebody could have the idea to demand Unicode characters inside identifiers, cooperative software development (as widely exercised in Open Source and Free Software development) across different countries and languages comes to a stagnation due to lack of available characters on the programmer's keyboards (or could you write German äöüÄÖÜß, or even Russian cyrillic letters without painful tricks?) - create heavy incompatibilities with Delphi, Turbo Pascal, ... Very good reasonable points! I never think about these drawbacks before, especially about the incompatibility issue. Compatibility is one point I like from FPC so I still able to compile my codes in other pascal compilers. :) I agree with you, my suggestion has lots more disadvantages than the advantages. Thank you. :) - and finally, a personal argument: The professional programming language Pascal is shifted towards kiddies and wannabe programmers and I personally want to prevent that FreePascal resembles Visual Basic or other language for blowhards. I don't agree with this. But I don't need to discuss more about this since it'd be out of the topic. :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] PR: Advocates needed
TurboCASH FPC convertion project will be a good start to prove the power of FPC/Lazarus. Though it requires highly skilled developers -since it's a big and complex application-, some FPC experts has to take this chance. I believe lots of FPC fans will contribute to this project. :) Regards, -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.blogsome.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] PR: Advocates needed
Thank you, Daniël. As soon as I got an account on SourceForge for my project, I'll contact FPC site webmaster. :) Regards, -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.blogsome.com Daniël Mantione wrote: I plan to continue work on the gallery soon, I think it would be nice to have it there, otherwise put it on the links page. Just contact one of the developers, all of us can modify the web site. Daniël ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] PR: Advocates needed
It's not the advocacy that is needed but rather they need code for it to work. It says right in the article. I think we should stop the VB vs Pascal discussion now. It's useless since we all here already know which is the winner. Even Alex himself had already knew about this, no need to convince him more. So, let's back to the main topic that had started this thread: The TurboCash Delphi-to-FPC convertion project. Let's do some (real) actions! First, somebody has to convince the TurboCash guys over there that FPC/Lazarus is the best alternative compiler and IDE to make TurboCash compiled and run natively on Linux (and other platforms as well). But don't make Python look bad... good Pascal guys don't like to say bad things about other programming languages. Just list the advantages of FPC/Lazarus over Python, regarding to this project. Second, some other person has to do some PR things on this issue. This could be done on FreshMeat or NewsForge or any open-source news media that had published this issue before. Convince other people that FPC/Lazarus can do the work, even it's the best alternative. The last and the most important is... make a developer team who will do the convertion work. There are LOTS of things need to be done since TurboCash is very Delphi and win32 specific application. So... who will start this? :) Regards, -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.blogsome.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] zeos is broken on fpc 2.0.2
From Zeos Forum... Posted: 08.12.2005, 21:00 When i try to install zeosdbo_rework from cvs 07-december-2005 on lazarus svn updated on the same day, i receive an error trying to open the package zdbc.lpk. I have fpc 2.0.1 and latest lazarus from svn. It works. But, if I change fpc to 2.0.2 (latest from svn) or to fpc 2.1.1+ (latest from svn), then I can't use zeosdbo anymore... so I stick with fpc 2.0.1. Is there anyone can explain what causes the errors? -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.blogsome.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Extend the libraries people!
Why not both? Delphi is windows-only, so even if FPC became 100% compatible with D7, the libraries already available for Delphi are usually windows specific, and FPC libraries are cross-platform. I believe you know about Kylix, which is Delphi clone on linux. Delphi IDE is windows only, as Kylix IDE is linux only as well, but not the code. As long as we don't use OS specific API (windows or linux), Delphi code is cross platform (windows and linux). :) This is also applied on FPC, not all FPC libraries are cross platform, though most of them are. This is also applied on every compiler and language, except Java maybe. It depends on your code, is it targetting a specific platform or for all platforms? -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.modblog.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Extend the libraries people!
Object pascal is a mature language. Some languages even adopt the concept, such as C# or Java, with different syntaxes and styles. Do not listen to people who said pascal is a toy language, they just don't know what they're talking about. Then, if we are talking about the object pascal compilers... we must admit that Delphi/Kylix is the most popular pascal compiler. In fact, it becomes some kind of industry standard for pascal based software engineering. But, now we have another pascal compiler alternative. The open source and free one, it's FreePascal aka FPC. Since it released the v.2.0, it got more popularity. Some people even think that it's gonna replace Delphi domination. But, I think it's not that easy as it said. Delphi has more experiences, more developers and community, more library supports, more products, and many more. If we want to make FPC as popular as Delphi and more developers interested to use it, then we have 2 ways to do it: 1. Make FPC 100% compatible with latest Delphi release (I think at least D7). Automatically, FPC will get all Delphi resources, including the codes and the developers! There's no need to write new specific libraries for FPC. 2. Make FPC own environment and community. We don't need to keep up with Delphi compatibility, make our own syntaxes and styles, build our own libraries, have our own dignity and destiny. :) Which way we gonna choose? The first one? Which I think we only need to more concentrate on the compiler development, but with ability to share the code and community with current Delphi code and community. This will make FPC = Delphi, or even FPC = Delphi. :) Or the second one? Which I think requires more works, keep up with some selected Delphi compatibility, build our own libraries, but with freedom to have our own special pascal. This will make FPC Delphi, or FPC Delphi, or even FPC Delphi. So... which one? :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.modblog.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] don't you think it's time to update delphi mode compatibility?
FPC has great amounts of compatibility with Borland Delphi. Unfortunately, according to the FPC docs, it only supports Delphi compatibility until Delphi 4. The object pascal enhancement on the next Delphi release is still not supported by FPC. Since now Delphi has grown to Delphi 9 (2005) -the latest Delphi release- which has tons of great object pascal enhancement, don't FPC developers think that now is the time to follow up the language enhancements? For example: the for..in syntax, reintroduce keyword, sub class (class field), etc. Yup, perhaps I sounds pretty close to .Net syntaxes. Yup, I also knew that FPC development won't go that direction yet. I'm just talking about the language enhancement here, for more code portability. Say, I'll be able to compile my Delphi.Net code using FPC running on Linux. Maybe I'm just dreaming about the 'real' concept of write once, compile everywhere. :D Maybe we can start it from FPC v.2.2. Or FPC v.3.0? What do you think? :) -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.modblog.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] don't you think it's time to update delphi modecompatibility?
Name one that really enables you to do something that you couldn't do otherwise. Actually... none. :) If you want portability, simply don't use D2005 syntax. Hmmm... very nice advice. :) Write it in D7 and compile it everywhere. To my knowledge there are no plans for post-D7 support. The whole point is compability with Delphi.NET, and there is not much interest in that anyway. So, may I conclude that FPC is targetting D7 language compatibility? That's sound fair enough to me, and -thanks God- I can live with that. :) Is the D7 compatibility has been reached fully or partially or still under development? How far the compatibility of FPC v.2.0 with D7? Is there any docs explain about this issue? Because I still failed to compile my D7 codes under FPC 2.0. It's an D7 codes utilizing dbExpress components. -Bee- has Bee.ography at: http://beeography.modblog.com ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
