subject:"Re\: \[fpc\-pascal\] which GUI \(noob\)"

On 2015-08-04 21:57, Schindler Karl-Michael wrote:
> This is quite a twisted view, which cries for correction. Apple has
> put up guide lines for developers, for example the Human Interface
> Guidelines

And even Apple can't adhere to their own HIG details. Such arguments
about Mac users praising the consistency of OSX and its applications is
a joke. If you want examples, use Google - it will list plenty of
inconsistencies for iOS and OSX.

As for Mac users not wanting to use applications that don't blend in
perfectly well then I guess those same users never use the Internet
or any web apps either? After all, websites look "alien" on every
platform and has no HIG to speak off (weird looking buttons, menus all
over the place, odd animations and hover effects, modal forms etc etc).
Yet everybody on any platform seems to navigate websites and web apps
just fine.  Personally I don't think the majority of end-users are that
stupid as some people make them out to be. If they see a button (on a
web page or "alien" application) they know how to use it. The same goes
for all other UI widgets too. The important things is, is the
application stable, and does it provide a useful function that the
end-user needs.

Case in point, I wrote a commercial application for a client using fpGUI
- a 100% custom drawn toolkit. fpGUI using OSX's X11 support to run. The
client didn't give a damn if the application didn't look 100% native.
They only cared that the application was stable and did what they
needed. In fact, they were quite happy that it looked and behaved
exactly like the Linux and Windows versions because it saved them extra
effort and money when training the staff using the software.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Schindler Karl-Michael

my two cents as a long term user of Macs, fpc and lazarus.

> Am 04.08.2015 um 20:01 schrieb fpc-pascal-requ...@lists.freepascal.org:
>
> Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not
> made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple
> tries to lock out „alien" solutions.

This is quite a twisted view, which cries for correction. Apple has put up
guide lines for developers, for example the Human Interface Guidelines

(https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/2957)

But there are more, for example about the application bundles and where to put
preference files and similar things.

Contrary to the claim above there are plenty freeware and shareware programs,
which are well received by mac users. Whether they are sold by apple or not, is
not the point. iTunes from Apple, for example, has received quite some critics,
because it does not really follow the guide lines and therefore feels „strange“.

Mac users have a low barrier to install and try something, but their barrier to
ditch something to the trashcan is also very low. For a real Mac application
without any fishy smell, i guess one needs to take the full dive and develop
the interface with Xcode and use ObjectivePascal for the code. It is probably
the only way to get the application into the AppStore, but i think that this is
not your option.

Whether Apple locks out alien solutions is not the point, because this has been
the case even before the App Store. However, you can still install and run
applications, like Lazarus, alien or not ;-)

The carbon-lcl is probably the best compromise at the moment regarding features
and mac-like appearance, at least until the cocoa-lcl does everything you need.
Qt4-lcl is another option, but also needs quite some tweaking. For the majority
of Apple users all X11-derived solutions are very alien and they are only
accepted by techie nerds like me. Therefore, the question about your potential
customers/users is quite important. If you have never used a Mac, it might be
difficult to understand the critics of Maccies about the strange feeling and
only sound arrogant. Things like the top priority of mouse activities and the
corresponding user guidance and the much lower importance of application
specific short keys. On the other hand a number of default short keys are
expected to work. Ctrl-W for closing the active window is often missing in
ported programs. But in many cases, the number of little things is so large,
that the answer to the question „What is wrong?“ is „Oh my god, where should i
start!“ I am surely exaggerating, but actually hoping to prepare you of what
might come. There is a good chance that it is not so bad. Since you seem to
have little experience with a Mac, it might be good to team up with a Maccie.
Maybe try the mac-pascal mailing list.

I have put together a small utility for the conversion of the voltage from a
thermocouple to temperature in lazarus. It runs on Mac OS X, Linux and windows.
Besides Lazarus, i also use a Makefile for some of the tweaks. Link:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/heatwizard/

MiSchi.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Juha Manninen

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Peter  wrote:
> On 03/08/15 15:41, Gour wrote:
> I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment.
> I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of
> Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be
> supporting Qt4.
>
> http://perezmeyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/early-announce-qt4-removal-in-jessie1.html

Qt4 may be deprecated but it will not be removed any time soon.
Was the announcement made at 1. of April? No it wasn't.
Anyway the major distros will support QT4 for a long time. Right now I
am using OpenSuse Tumbleweed rolling distro with KDE Plasma 5 desktop.
KDE is the biggest project using QT. They still need QT4 for many
applications in Plasma 5.
After many years when QT4 is removed, Lazarus LCL will already support
QT5 bindings. Alpha version of the bindings already exist.
The maintainer of LCL-QT, Zeljko, uses it for his own business. I am
pretty sure this is a safe path for anybody.
The sentence "I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at
the moment" is plain FUD and nonsense.

> I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at the
> moment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki.

LCL-GTK3 is alpha, yes. It needs contributors. Anybody?

Juha
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Martin Schreiber

On Tuesday 04 August 2015 19:03:41 Gour wrote:
> Martin Schreiber 
>
> writes:
>
> > Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is
> > not made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and
> > Apple tries to lock out "alien" solutions.
> >
> :-)
>
> Is Windows (e.g. V10) better in this regard?
>
I think so.

>
> What about docs? Someone mentined lack of it.
>
Some usefull links are here:
http://mseide-msegui.sourceforge.net/
Wiki:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/MSEide_&_MSEgui
Examples are here:
https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/mseuniverse/tree/master/samples
and here:
https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/mseuniverse/tree/master/attic/msedocumenting/mse/trunk/help/tutorials

and feel free to ask on the mseide-msegui-talk mailing list.

Martin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Martin Schreiber

On Tuesday 04 August 2015 20:01:25 Gour wrote:
> marcov-bqi0ya1h...@public.gmane.org (Marco van de Voort) writes:
> > (don't forget to ask Martin about the language he is creating, I tried to
> > plug some M2 features, maybe you can drive the message home :-)
>
> Hmm…nothing in public yet?
>
https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mselang/wikis/home

Martin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

marcov-bqi0ya1h...@public.gmane.org (Marco van de Voort) writes:

> (don't forget to ask Martin about the language he is creating, I tried to
> plug some M2 features, maybe you can drive the message home :-)

Hmm…nothing in public yet?

I believe that using FPC is giving me more confidence considering the
community behind…


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though 
faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course 
of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, 
for to follow another's path is dangerous.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Marco van de Voort

In our previous episode, Gour said:
> > Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list:
> 
> Will visit the place, for sure?
> 
> Thank you for your input.
> 
> At the end, after deciding to use FPC, there is no more lack of viable
> options which was the case before when evaluating other languages. :-)

(don't forget to ask Martin about the language he is creating, I tried to
plug some M2 features, maybe you can drive the message home :-)
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Marco van de Voort

In our previous episode, Peter said:
> > 
> > I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, 
> 
> 
> I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment.
> I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of
> Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be
> supporting Qt4.

The whole point of the LCL is that you only start worrying about widgetset
when you are close to deployment, and need to do widgetset specific things.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Martin Schreiber 
writes:

> Hi, I am the author of MSEide+MSEgui.


Hiya!

> MSEgui works on Linux, FreeBSD and Windows. A port for OSX with X11 backend 
> is 
> probably doable with not much effort. I would prefer to interface to Quartz 
> directly, such a solution needs a sponsor because of the rather big 
> expenditure and I don't need OSX myself.

I also personally do not need OSX neither I used it ever - just would
like to provide, if possible, version of my app for it.

> Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not 
> made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple 
> tries to lock out "alien" solutions.

:-)

Is Windows (e.g. V10) better in this regard?

I plan to write open-source app using Linux/BSD platform so there is no
comercial pressure to have Win/Mac version, just simple convenience.

> MSEide+MSEgui is no Delphi clone, so if you are experienced to work with 
> Delphi and don't like to learn something new you probably would have a hard 
> time with MSEide+MSEgui at the beginning.

No Delphi experience at all…

> If you don't know Delphi or you think that Delphi not necessarily is the only 
> possible way to make a GUI toolkit and IDE, MSEide+MSEgui can be easily 
> learned because of its orthogonal architecture and most things "simply work", 
> also difficult things like visual form inheritance, frames and docking - BTW 
> since many years already.

I’ll check it out.


> I started development of MSEide+MSEgui in 1999 and invested about 20'000 
> hours 
> up to now. Because of the small team the software architecture, quality and 
> strictness is very good. MSEgui probably is the most versatile GUI toolkit 
> you will find on the market.

What about docs? Someone mentined lack of it.

> License of MSEide is GPL, license of MSEgui is LGPL with static linking 
> exception, so you are free to fork the projects if you don't like my 
> development direction .

I’ll probably have to use some 3rd party C lib which is GPLV2+, so
license is not a problem here.

> MSEide+MSEgui has excellent database support, please take a look in the 
> MSEide 
> component palette tabs 'DB', 'DBe', 'DBl', 'DBf', 'Rep' and 'ifi' .
> Please take the recommendation of tiOPF design patterns by Graeme with a 
> grain 
> of salt, it is not the only possibility to build high quality database 
> applications and he is a little bit biased. ;-)

:-)

> Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list:

Will visit the place, for sure…

Thank you for your input.

At the end, after deciding to use FPC, there is no more lack of viable
options which was the case before when evaluating other languages. :-)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not 
working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Mark Morgan Lloyd
 writes:

> That's going to be a problem. On x86 and x86-64 Jessie, my experience
> so far is that GTK2 doesn't work and that Qt is the only viable
> option.

That’s another ’pro’ argument to use fpGUI or MSEgui…


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher 
than the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; 
and he [the soul] is even higher than the intelligence.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Peter  writes:

> I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment.
> I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of
> Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be
> supporting Qt4.

That’s helpful hint.

> I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at the
> moment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki.

Another one. ;)

> fpGui, while it has far fewer features, is independent of these widget
> sets and their major version transitions.

I must admit I’m heavily leaning towards it at the moment having some
very welcome features and less bloat.

> I have not used Lazarus for a while, but I think you can use it as an
> IDE, while using fpGUI as a component set. Perhaps someone can confirm?

Well, ability of fpGUI to use one’s preferred editor is another ’plus’.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)


Peter wrote:
On 03/08/15 15:41, Gour wrote:> > I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, 


I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment.I 
understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour ofQt5. At the 
very least, check how long your distribution will besupporting Qt4.
http://perezmeyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/early-announce-qt4-removal-in-jessie1.html
I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at themoment. Its 
'alpha' status according to the wiki.


That's going to be a problem. On x86 and x86-64 Jessie, my experience so 
far is that GTK2 doesn't work and that Qt is the only viable option.


GOK what it's like on other platforms that might not have such a 
well-tested Qt etc.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Martin Schreiber

Hi, I am the author of MSEide+MSEgui.

On Monday 03 August 2015 16:41:44 Gour wrote:
>
> MSEgui works on Linux and Windows, while fpGUI works on all three OS-es
> but on Mac support is done via X11 libs.
>
> Now, let me say that Linux (Debian) is my native platform which I use
> and will develop on it, but would like to provide versions for Mac &
> Windows.
>
> Does it automatically eliminates c) or there is plan to add support for
> Mac?
>
MSEgui works on Linux, FreeBSD and Windows. A port for OSX with X11 backend is 
probably doable with not much effort. I would prefer to interface to Quartz 
directly, such a solution needs a sponsor because of the rather big 
expenditure and I don't need OSX myself.
Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not 
made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple 
tries to lock out "alien" solutions.

> Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as I
> read somewhere, for embedded platforms?
>
> What about learning curve of each one?
>
MSEide+MSEgui is no Delphi clone, so if you are experienced to work with 
Delphi and don't like to learn something new you probably would have a hard 
time with MSEide+MSEgui at the beginning.
If you don't know Delphi or you think that Delphi not necessarily is the only 
possible way to make a GUI toolkit and IDE, MSEide+MSEgui can be easily 
learned because of its orthogonal architecture and most things "simply work", 
also difficult things like visual form inheritance, frames and docking - BTW 
since many years already.
I started development of MSEide+MSEgui in 1999 and invested about 20'000 hours 
up to now. Because of the small team the software architecture, quality and 
strictness is very good. MSEgui probably is the most versatile GUI toolkit 
you will find on the market.
License of MSEide is GPL, license of MSEgui is LGPL with static linking 
exception, so you are free to fork the projects if you don't like my 
development direction .

> I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, but need
> some database support - app would use sqlite3 as storage backend.
>
MSEide+MSEgui has excellent database support, please take a look in the MSEide 
component palette tabs 'DB', 'DBe', 'DBl', 'DBf', 'Rep' and 'ifi' .
Please take the recommendation of tiOPF design patterns by Graeme with a grain 
of salt, it is not the only possibility to build high quality database 
applications and he is a little bit biased. ;-)

Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk

Mail archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net/

NNTP gateway:
nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.mseide.user

Martin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

On 2015-08-04 16:11, Peter wrote:
> I have not used Lazarus for a while, but I think you can use it as an
> IDE, while using fpGUI as a component set. Perhaps someone can confirm?

I believe I answered that in an earlier reply.

  http://lists.freepascal.org/pipermail/fpc-pascal/2015-August/044795.html


Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Peter

On 03/08/15 15:41, Gour wrote:
> 
> I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, 

I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment.
I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of
Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be
supporting Qt4.

http://perezmeyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/early-announce-qt4-removal-in-jessie1.html

I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at the
moment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki.

fpGui, while it has far fewer features, is independent of these widget
sets and their major version transitions.

I suggest, check what features you need. Does fpGui have them?
If not, use LCL-GTK

I have not used Lazarus for a while, but I think you can use it as an
IDE, while using fpGUI as a component set. Perhaps someone can confirm?

MSE stuff has a following, but last time I looked, there wasn’t much
documentation to help get started with it.

Peter

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

On 2015-08-04 14:04, Marc Santhoff wrote:
> 
> can you give a short explanation how the pattern is implemented or show
> a documentation link, please?

Model-GUI-Mediator is a combination of the Observer and Mediator design
patterns working together.

Follow the URL shown below, and view the second article from the top.

It is an introduction to Model-GUI-Mediator, but the implementation
found in tiOPF goes far beyond what is covered in that article. Needless
to say the one found in tiOPF is much improved, easier to use and way
more powerful. The underlying idea is the same though.

  http://geldenhuys.co.uk/articles/

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Graeme Geldenhuys 
writes:

> I can confirm that SQLite3 is supported via the SqlDB database
> components. That wiki page is simply a bit out of date.

Thank you.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Marc Santhoff

On Di, 2015-08-04 at 10:49 +0100, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> For displaying and interacting with data in a user interface, tiOPF uses
> a design pattern called Model-GUI-Mediator (MGM) and allows standard
> user interface widgets to become "object aware" without needing
> additional custom DB-aware widgets. tiOPF already supports the most
> frequently used widgets and has MGM mediators for Delphi's VCL and FMX,
> Lazarus's LCL and fpGUI. 

Graeme, 

can you give a short explanation how the pattern is implemented or show
a documentation link, please?

TIA,
Marc

-- 
Marc Santhoff 

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Paul Breneman  writes:

> And fpGUI is very easy to try:
> http://www.turbocontrol.com/easyfpgui.htm

Ohh, this is a good one. Thanks.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
He is a perfect yogī who, by comparison to his own self, 
sees the true equality of all beings, in both their 
happiness and their distress, O Arjuna!

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

On 2015-08-04 12:27, Gour wrote:
> (http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/tiOPF) and wondered why there is no
> support for Sqlite3. :-)

I can confirm that SQLite3 is supported via the SqlDB database
components. That wiki page is simply a bit out of date.


Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)


Gour wrote:

Mark Morgan Lloyd
 writes:


The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a
graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI.


Here you mean fpGUI & MSEgui?


No, more than anything I mean going directly to the relevant APIs. Using 
fpGUI etc. is a potentially-useful shortcut, particularly if their form 
designers are adequate.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

2015-08-04 Thread Paul Breneman


On 08/04/2015 07:33 AM, Gour wrote:

Mark Morgan Lloyd
 writes:


The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a
graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI.


Here you mean fpGUI & MSEgui?


I tend to use the FPC+Lazarus combination on (Debian) Linux targeting
x86 (including -64), SPARC, PPC and sometimes ARM, MIPS is also
getting there slowly. Sometimes also x86 Windows and SPARC Solaris,
and other people regularly target OSX etc.


Nice set. ;)


fpGUI and MSEgui definitely have their good points, they're lean and
are only mean in self-defence :-)


:-)



And fpGUI is very easy to try:
http://www.turbocontrol.com/easyfpgui.htm

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Mark Morgan Lloyd
 writes:

> The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a
> graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI.

Here you mean fpGUI & MSEgui?

> I tend to use the FPC+Lazarus combination on (Debian) Linux targeting
> x86 (including -64), SPARC, PPC and sometimes ARM, MIPS is also
> getting there slowly. Sometimes also x86 Windows and SPARC Solaris,
> and other people regularly target OSX etc.

Nice set. ;)

> fpGUI and MSEgui definitely have their good points, they're lean and
> are only mean in self-defence :-)

:-)

-- 
Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for 
everyone follows the nature he has acquired from the three modes. 
What can repression accomplish?

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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

Graeme Geldenhuys 
writes:

> If you have the time I suggest you take a look at another open source
> project called tiOPF (TechInsite Object Persistence Framework). It
> abstracts the data persistence (saving/loading), so you simply
> concentrate on designing your business objects. The tiOPF framework then
> takes care of the rest and allows you to switch where you store your
> data (XML, Firebird, MySQL, SQL Server, SQLite etc), without needing any
> code changes.

Interesting…I was looking at this page
(http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/tiOPF) and wondered why there is no
support for Sqlite3. :-)

> I've personally used tiOPF for over 15 years in commercial software, and
> highly recommend it for Client/Server or 3-tier database development work.

Thanks. It’s bookmarked now.

> A smaller development team doesn't make a project any less useful. eg:
> The Free Pascal Compiler development team is minute compared to say the
> Qt project. Yet I [and many others] find FPC immensely useful, and more
> importantly what allows us [as developers] to make a living.

Thank you very much for your input.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you
are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider 
yourself the cause of the results of your activities,
and never be attached to not doing your duty.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)

On 2015-08-04 11:05, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
> Graeme, could you update us on the extent to which Lazarus or an 
> equivalent IDE supports form design etc. for fpGUI these days?

I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but I'll try answering it.
fpGUI was design so it doesn't dictate what development tools you need
to use to work with it. For that reason the tools included with fpGUI
are stand-alone tools. So you can use the UIDesigner (fpGUI Forms
Designer) (or DocView) as stand-alone from a desktop icon or command
line, or integrate it with any IDE or Editor that support "external
tools" functionality.

eg: I develop fpGUI applications with both Lazarus IDE and MSEide. In
both cases I have setup context sensitive help (via F1 key press) which
launches DocView and displays the appropriate help based on the cursor
position. The same is done with the UIDesigner, where I launch the form
designer and load the current file using the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut
because both Lazarus IDE and MSEide hard-codes F12 (or used too) for its
own usage.

I've done the same with my favourite text editor, EditPad Pro.

Here is some instructions on how to set this up using Lazarus, MSEide,
Delphi 7 and EditPad Pro.

  http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/docview_ide_integration.shtml

Even using fpGUI's UIDesigner is optional, but it does make the process
of designing a form faster. The UIDesigner generates pure Object Pascal
code, as if a human typed it. It doesn't use external *.lfm or *.dfm
files, so the true full change history is easily seen in a code
repository. This also has some other benefits like supporting multiple
forms in a single *.pas unit, properties can quickly be changed directly
in code (without needing to launch the Forms Designer), Searching for
properties or even Search & Replace can be done on code, widgets or
properties.

I hope this answers your question.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)


Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

On 2015-08-03 15:41, Gour wrote:> Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or 
is b) more suitable, as I> read somewhere, for embedded platforms?
As I mentioned in a private email, I have written commercial softwareusing 
fpGUI for the Mac. The client I worked for was not at all phasedby the fact 
that it used the X11 support included with OSX. Neither werethey bothered by 
the fact that it doesn't look 100% native (many ofApple's own software doesn't 
adhere to their own interface guidelines).My client's main concern was that the 
software is stable and that itworks by delivering the functionality they 
required - which it did.
Having the same look and feel between OSX, Linux and Windows was also aplus for 
them, as it reduced the amount of staff training on the software.


What about learning curve of each one?

LCL and fpGUI has pretty much the same learning curve I think.


Graeme, could you update us on the extent to which Lazarus or an 
equivalent IDE supports form design etc. for fpGUI these days?


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)


Gour wrote:

Hello,
I’m new to FPC and researching about different GUI options available towrite 
open-source multi-platform desktop app using FPC…
Based on what I’ve found there are mainly three options:
a) Lazarus and LCL
b) fpGUI
c) MSEgui
Afaict, a) support all three main OS-es - Linux, Mac & Windows byproviding 
native look’n’feel although, iirc, Cocoa supprt for Mac is notfinished yet.
MSEgui works on Linux and Windows, while fpGUI works on all three OS-esbut on 
Mac support is done via X11 libs.
Now, let me say that Linux (Debian) is my native platform which I useand will 
develop on it, but would like to provide versions for Mac &Windows.
Does it automatically eliminates c) or there is plan to add support forMac?
Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as Iread 
somewhere, for embedded platforms?
What about learning curve of each one?
I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, but needsome 
database support - app would use sqlite3 as storage backend.
Another concern is that, afaics, both b) and c) are mostly one-manproject, 
while a) has much larger community behind.
Any advice is helpful?


The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a graphical 
or a text-based (curses etc.) UI. However in practice I think you'll 
find that the majority in here who have any interest in GUI support use 
Lazarus.


I tend to use the FPC+Lazarus combination on (Debian) Linux targeting 
x86 (including -64), SPARC, PPC and sometimes ARM, MIPS is also getting 
there slowly. Sometimes also x86 Windows and SPARC Solaris, and other 
people regularly target OSX etc. There is a bit of a problem in that all 
of us tend to test the less popular combinations somewhat sporadically, 
and at present some of these really do require careful choice of 
compiler version and- if using Lazarus- widget set.


fpGUI and MSEgui definitely have their good points, they're lean and are 
only mean in self-defence :-)


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)