Migrating features over to InDesign
Framers, Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group in 2004. Paul Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I’m not counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it’s time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the important aspects of document composition to support; which direction to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; wouldn’t it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and extract one ideal application. Warnock: Well, that’s a complicated problem. And there’s a fair bit of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it from a very ‘let’s go build magazines’ kind of perspective. Then there was the other set of the world that works with highly structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love FrameMaker; I’ve been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, the InDesign crowd doesn’t understand the structured document world as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling… Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I’m a structured-document person: I like them! Interviewer: You’re in good company here! I’ve been using FrameMaker for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 on the Mac under Classic mode – for the rest of time, perhaps. Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign that will have the same properties. And to InDesign’s credit, there are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven’t fundamentally solved the structure problem. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Migrating features over to InDesign
Thanks. Very helpful, indeed. Bodvar On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Paul Findon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Framers, Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group in 2004. Paul Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I'm not counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it's time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the important aspects of document composition to support; which direction to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; wouldn't it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and extract one ideal application. Warnock: Well, that's a complicated problem. And there's a fair bit of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it from a very 'let's go build magazines' kind of perspective. Then there was the other set of the world that works with highly structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love FrameMaker; I've been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, the InDesign crowd doesn't understand the structured document world as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling… Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I'm a structured-document person: I like them! Interviewer: You're in good company here! I've been using FrameMaker for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 on the Mac under Classic mode – for the rest of time, perhaps. Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign that will have the same properties. And to InDesign's credit, there are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven't fundamentally solved the structure problem. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bodvar%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. -- Edsel Murphy, dec. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
And building on that, you can, occasionally, convert them into a snapshot backup directory. Just move the files to a date-stamped directory of your choice: /project/August_10/ /project/August_20/ /project/August_30/ As you reopen and save files in FM, the .backup.fms are created again, so you have both a collection of last-saved files and incremental backup directories. Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded grl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Fred Ridder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jack Molisani wrote: I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup files? The backup files aren't really backups. Once you understand what they actually are it will become clear that they can only exist in the same directory as the working source files. The backup are actually the last saved version of the file but with a new, secondary filename extension. When you select the Automatic backup on save option, all that FrameMaker does when you do a Save is rename the previous version of the file with a .bak extenstion rather than flagging it for deletion by the OS. The backup is therefore always one save behind the working file unless you go to the extra trouble of making FrameMaker let you do two consecutive saves. If you save frequenty, the differences between the .bak and the workng file may not be major, but the .bak will *always* lack the last set of saved changes. -Fred Ridder ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
Hi Jack, If you have FrameScript, you could write a script that would save the backup files in a user-specified folder. If you are interested in a FrameScript solution, please contact me offlist. Thanks. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup files? I searched the documentation, the Internet, etc., but no joy. TIA, Jack Jack Molisani Executive Director, The LavaCon Conference on Technical Communication and Project Management November 6-8, 2008 Honolulu, Hawaii www.lavacon.org866-302-5774 x201 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
ANN: Improve Your FrameMaker Skills Web-Based Training Sessions
NEW! Web-Based Training Sessions: Improve Your FrameMaker Skills (Part 1) 1 hour each (10am--11am PDT) * biweekly beginning October 16 Topics in Part 1: * Table Of Contents Demystified * Mastering Running Headers/Footers * Table Tips Tricks * Paragraph Overrides * Better Text Editing and Spelling Techniques For details, visit http://www.microtype.com . Registration form: http://www.microtype.com/training/WebImproveFMSkills1-Reg.pdf Shlomo Perets MicroType, http://www.microtype.com Training, consulting add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Structure View Won't Appear
I had this problem a week or so ago. There is a Windows settings that forces all windows to show up on the visible part of the screen. I don't remember where or what it is, but I found it in windows Help (imagine that!). Fred -- Fred Wersan Senior Technical Writer MAK Technologies 68 Moulton St. Cambridge, MA 02138 617-876-8085 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
I would strongly suggest giving the folders numeric names in the mmdd format (e.g. 20080929) then you will be easily able to find the latest. Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Art Campbell Sent: 29 September 2008 12:34 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Backup folder in Frame 7.0? And building on that, you can, occasionally, convert them into a snapshot backup directory. Just move the files to a date-stamped directory of your choice: /project/August_10/ /project/August_20/ /project/August_30/ As you reopen and save files in FM, the .backup.fms are created again, so you have both a collection of last-saved files and incremental backup directories. Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded grl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Fred Ridder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jack Molisani wrote: I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup files? The backup files aren't really backups. Once you understand what they actually are it will become clear that they can only exist in the same directory as the working source files. The backup are actually the last saved version of the file but with a new, secondary filename extension. When you select the Automatic backup on save option, all that FrameMaker does when you do a Save is rename the previous version of the file with a .bak extenstion rather than flagging it for deletion by the OS. The backup is therefore always one save behind the working file unless you go to the extra trouble of making FrameMaker let you do two consecutive saves. If you save frequenty, the differences between the .bak and the workng file may not be major, but the .bak will *always* lack the last set of saved changes. -Fred Ridder ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gma il.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/peter%40galley.ie Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
Hi Jack... I've got a plugin that will create the backup in a specified folder (in an absolute or relative location). One of these days I'll get around to posting it to my website, but if you (or anyone else) are interested in a beta version, contact me offlist. Cheers, ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Jack Molisani wrote: I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup files? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Migrating features over to InDesign
Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of existing Frame projects reasonably simple. _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Findon Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 01:41 a.m. To: FrameUsers List Subject: Migrating features over to InDesign Framers, Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group in 2004. Paul Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I'm not counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it's time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the important aspects of document composition to support; which direction to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; wouldn't it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and extract one ideal application. Warnock: Well, that's a complicated problem. And there's a fair bit of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it from a very 'let's go build magazines' kind of perspective. Then there was the other set of the world that works with highly structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love FrameMaker; I've been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, the InDesign crowd doesn't understand the structured document world as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling. Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I'm a structured-document person: I like them! Interviewer: You're in good company here! I've been using FrameMaker for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 on the Mac under Classic mode - for the rest of time, perhaps. Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign that will have the same properties. And to InDesign's credit, there are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven't fundamentally solved the structure problem. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Migrating features over to InDesign
While it was good of Paul to repost from the archives, he noted that the interview was done in 2004. I think the only conclusion anyone could reach is that Adobe is still implementing on the plan that they brought forward four or five years ago. Nothing new there... Art Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded grl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of existing Frame projects reasonably simple. _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Findon Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 01:41 a.m. To: FrameUsers List Subject: Migrating features over to InDesign Framers, Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group in 2004. Paul Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I'm not counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it's time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the important aspects of document composition to support; which direction to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; wouldn't it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and extract one ideal application. Warnock: Well, that's a complicated problem. And there's a fair bit of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it from a very 'let's go build magazines' kind of perspective. Then there was the other set of the world that works with highly structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love FrameMaker; I've been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, the InDesign crowd doesn't understand the structured document world as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling. Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I'm a structured-document person: I like them! Interviewer: You're in good company here! I've been using FrameMaker for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 on the Mac under Classic mode - for the rest of time, perhaps. Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign that will have the same properties. And to InDesign's credit, there are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven't fundamentally solved the structure problem. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently
RE: Migrating features over to InDesign
What is so terribly sad is that Adobe has never really shown that it understands what FrameMaker is for. They have always had their head firmly in the designer/graphics artist/page layout camp. Scott At 8:57 AM -0700 9/29/08, Lea Rush wrote: Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of existing Frame projects reasonably simple. _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 - ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi, Lea: In case you missed it, I've noted some of the differences between FM and ID that make it difficult to accomplish perfect automated conversions in this thread: http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2008-September/013757.html If your documents rely heavily on the problematic features, consider posting your requests for changes in both FM and ID at Adobe's official link: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform HTH Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Lea Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of existing Frame projects reasonably simple. _ Lea Rush ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Migrating features over to InDesign
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is so terribly sad is that Adobe has never really shown that it understands what FrameMaker is for. They have always had their head firmly in the designer/graphics artist/page layout camp. Hmm. Based on that interview excerpt, Warnock was firmly _not_ in the designer/graphics artist/page layout camp. He was all about highly structured long documents and said he loved FM. Adobe is a large organization. It doesn't have just one understanding and one head. Are there lots of designer/artist types at Adobe? Sure. Do they have lots of sway? Sure, probably just about in proportion to the percentage of Adobe's revenue that their designer/artist-oriented software produces. Are there people at Adobe who understand what FM is for? Of course. Do they have lots of sway? Um, well, probably just about in proportion to the percentage of Adobe's revenue that FM produces. And that's the real issue, not lack of someone's understanding. Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi Peter, Thanks for the reminder and the link. Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. *Yes, I'm one of those evil people who both develops the software and writes the manual. I do my best in our small company... _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 09:44 a.m. To: Lea Rush Cc: FrameUsers List Subject: Re: Migrating features over to InDesign Hi, Lea: In case you missed it, I've noted some of the differences between FM and ID that make it difficult to accomplish perfect automated conversions in this thread: http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2008-September/013757.html If your documents rely heavily on the problematic features, consider posting your requests for changes in both FM and ID at Adobe's official link: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform HTH Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Lea Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of existing Frame projects reasonably simple. _ Lea Rush ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi, Lea: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter, Thanks for the reminder and the link. You're welcome. Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. I hope I haven't unintentionally implied or added to the suspicion that FM is/will be discontinued in favor of ID. The FM Next development team is working intensely as always. Don't be shy about posting wishes to Adobe's official feature-request site: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform Regards, Peter __ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi Dov, Thank you for the clarification. I've had other seemingly immortal software packages die out from under me, and it's good to hear that the increasingly Frame-like features of InDesign aren't indicative. This is yet another example of why having official vendor reps on a list like this is a very good thing. :) Thanks again, Lea _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dov Isaacs Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 11:03 a.m. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lea Rush Cc: FrameUsers List Subject: RE: Migrating features over to InDesign Importance: High To be very specific about this (and to hopefully avoid the seemingly annual FrameMaker is dead ritual), there are absolutely NO plans within Adobe at this time to discontinue FrameMaker in favor of InDesign. The features added to InDesign that are Framemaker-like are specifically per the request of InDesign users and have not been intended as a means of inducing FrameMaker users to migrate although that may be the unintended effect in some cases. In fact, the next major release of FrameMaker is currently under active development with thoughts as to what would go into subsequent releases. - Dov -Original Message- From: Peter Gold Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:38 AM Hi, Lea: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter, Thanks for the reminder and the link. You're welcome. Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. I hope I haven't unintentionally implied or added to the suspicion that FM is/will be discontinued in favor of ID. The FM Next development team is working intensely as always. Don't be shy about posting wishes to Adobe's official feature-request site: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform Regards, Peter __ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Frame 7.2 and SiberSafe
Does anyone use the content management system from SiberLogic? It's called SiberSafe. I was wondering if anyone has this CMS and if you do could you describe any issues you've had with it related to single source publishing, structured authoring using DITA/DocBook? Security issues when checking out an entire course, etc. Thanks, Tony Tasillo Tony Tasillo Project Specialist and Customer Service Relations Representative TEEX Operations 301 Tarrow Drive, Suite 268 College Station, TX 77840-7896 Phone: 979/458-6029 Fax: 979/458-6822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: missing fonts after changing computers;customize maker.inifile? Can't find ini file
Had to limit the search to the FrameMaker folder; was searching the entire local drive-my mistake! Thanks Scott -Original Message- From: Combs, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:09 PM To: Scott Penney; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: missing fonts after changing computers;customize maker.inifile? Can't find ini file Scott Penney wrote: Following the Customizing pdf manual and advice I've received on this list, I was attempting to locate the maker.ini file (for FM 7.1) to change the font specs (the manual indicates the path UserProfile\ApplicationData\Adobe\FrameMaker\7.0). Looking under Program Files\Adobe\FrameMaker 7.1, no maker.ini file is evident. I've also run searches with no results. Any ideas? Did you see my response from yesterday afternoon? Here is the relevant portion again: --- The main maker.ini is right where it's always been -- the FM installation folder -- and that's the one you probably want to make font mapping changes in. There's another one for your personal settings, but it's mainly for things like window sizes and positions, recent files, etc. UserProfile is a variable referring to a specific user's profile data, the location of which depends on the Windows version. This is all explained on page 1 of the Customizing manual under the heading Locating customization files. There's a table there that shows you where UserProfile is for each Windows version. Are you saying that a search of your hard drive turns up _zero_ instances of maker.ini? I don't think that's possible with a functioning FM install. But I could be wrong. It happened once before. ;-) Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- Please consider the environment before printing this email. The information contained in this communication and any attachment(s) and/or link(s) hereto may contain proprietary and/or confidential information, which may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, and is intended only for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Changing Track Revisions display
Frame 8 includes a Track Text Edits feature that is similar to Microsoft Word's Track Changes. Inserted text shows up as green underlined and deleted text as red strikethough. It doesn't appear to be possible to change these settings. I would like to have deleted text hidden. I thought that Frame might use conditional text to control the display of tracked text. It does show up in the status line as either FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_ADDED or FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_DELETED, in the same spot as conditional text. However, as far as I can see, these conditions (if that's what they are), don't show up in any of the conditional text dialogs. Is it possible to modify how FrameMaker displays these tracked changes? Thanks Keith Soltys ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Changing Track Revisions display
Hi Keith and Scott, You can indeed use FrameScript or the FDK to change the appearance of these conditions. They can be programmatically changed just like any other condition. However, the changes do not survive when you close and reopen the document. The solution I have used is a FrameScript event script that automatically changes them when the document is opened. I am sure you could do this with the FDK as well. Keith, if you are interested in a FrameScript solution, please contact me offlist. Thanks. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Hi Keith... As far as I've been able to tell .. these are conditions, but they are *special* conditions. They don't show up in the standard condition UI, and you can't easily change their appearance or hide/show state. If you export this to a MIF, you'll see that they look like normal conditions, but if you try changing the hide/show or coloring in the MIF, they will revert back to the standard appearance when you open it in FM. Their properties must be hard-coded in some manner. I'd imagine that an FDK plugin or FrameScript could change this (haven't tried yet) but I'm not aware of any normal ways to change their appearance. ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Keith Soltys wrote: Frame 8 includes a Track Text Edits feature that is similar to Microsoft Word's Track Changes. Inserted text shows up as green underlined and deleted text as red strikethough. It doesn't appear to be possible to change these settings. I would like to have deleted text hidden. I thought that Frame might use conditional text to control the display of tracked text. It does show up in the status line as either FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_ADDED or FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_DELETED, in the same spot as conditional text. However, as far as I can see, these conditions (if that's what they are), don't show up in any of the conditional text dialogs. Is it possible to modify how FrameMaker displays these tracked changes? Thanks Keith Soltys ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Importing files into FM8
Hi all, When importing multiple files into a new FM 8 book the files are entered in precisely the reverse alpha-numeric order according to their file names. They have been named "Sect n1 Chap n2.fm" so that each section is comprised of more than one chapter. They are followed by Preface.fm, Glossary.fm,... that get added in that order. What needs to be done to change the order so that they are added in ascending order, rather than descending? Thanks Alan -- Alan Litchfield MBus (Hons), MNZCS AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz
Migrating features over to InDesign
Framers, Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group in 2004. Paul Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I?m not counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it?s time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the important aspects of document composition to support; which direction to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; wouldn?t it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and extract one ideal application. Warnock: Well, that?s a complicated problem. And there?s a fair bit of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it from a very ?let?s go build magazines? kind of perspective. Then there was the other set of the world that works with highly structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love FrameMaker; I?ve been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, the InDesign crowd doesn?t understand the structured document world as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling? Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I?m a structured-document person: I like them! Interviewer: You?re in good company here! I?ve been using FrameMaker for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 on the Mac under Classic mode ? for the rest of time, perhaps. Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign that will have the same properties. And to InDesign?s credit, there are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven?t fundamentally solved the structure problem.
Migrating features over to InDesign
Thanks. Very helpful, indeed. Bodvar On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Paul Findon wrote: > Framers, > > Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, > here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John > Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group > in 2004. > > Paul > > > Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three > page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I'm not > counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think > about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it's > time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the > important aspects of document composition to support; which direction > to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other > software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; > wouldn't it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and > extract one ideal application. > > Warnock: Well, that's a complicated problem. And there's a fair bit > of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is > to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it > was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it > that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: > very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we > acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: > Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people > who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it > from a very 'let's go build magazines' kind of perspective. Then > there was the other set of the world that works with highly > structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love > FrameMaker; I've been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But > FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the > idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, > the InDesign crowd doesn't understand the structured document world > as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along > more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. > > Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling? > > Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all > the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I'm a > structured-document person: I like them! > > Interviewer: You're in good company here! I've been using FrameMaker > for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 > on the Mac under Classic mode ? for the rest of time, perhaps. > > Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign > that will have the same properties. And to InDesign's credit, there > are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the > more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven't fundamentally > solved the structure problem. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as bodvar at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bodvar%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- "It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious." -- Edsel Murphy, dec.
Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
And building on that, you can, occasionally, convert them into a snapshot backup directory. Just move the files to a date-stamped directory of your choice: /project/August_10/ /project/August_20/ /project/August_30/ As you reopen and save files in FM, the .backup.fms are created again, so you have both a collection of last-saved files and incremental backup directories. Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded grl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Fred Ridder wrote: > > Jack Molisani wrote: >> I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup >> files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. >> >> Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup >> files? > The "backup" files aren't really backups. Once you understand what they > actually are it will become clear that they can only exist in the same > directory as the working source files. > > The "backup" are actually the last saved version of the file but with a > new, secondary filename extension. When you select the "Automatic > backup on save" option, all that FrameMaker does when you do a Save > is rename the previous version of the file with a .bak extenstion rather > than flagging it for deletion by the OS. The "backup" is therefore always > one save behind the working file unless you go to the extra trouble of > making FrameMaker let you do two consecutive saves. If you save > frequenty, the differences between the .bak and the workng file may > not be major, but the .bak will *always* lack the last set of saved > changes. > > -Fred Ridder > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
Hi Jack, If you have FrameScript, you could write a script that would save the backup files in a user-specified folder. If you are interested in a FrameScript solution, please contact me offlist. Thanks. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com >I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup > files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. > > Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup > files? > > I searched the documentation, the Internet, etc., but no joy. > > TIA, > > Jack > > Jack Molisani > > Executive Director, The LavaCon Conference > on Technical Communication and Project Management > > November 6-8, 2008 Honolulu, Hawaii > www.lavacon.org866-302-5774 x201
ANN: "Improve Your FrameMaker Skills" Web-Based Training Sessions
NEW! Web-Based Training Sessions: Improve Your FrameMaker Skills (Part 1) 1 hour each (10am--11am PDT) * biweekly beginning October 16 Topics in Part 1: * Table Of Contents Demystified * Mastering Running Headers/Footers * Table Tips & Tricks * Paragraph Overrides * Better Text Editing and Spelling Techniques For details, visit http://www.microtype.com . Registration form: http://www.microtype.com/training/WebImproveFMSkills1-Reg.pdf Shlomo Perets MicroType, http://www.microtype.com Training, consulting & add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat
Structure View Won't Appear
I had this problem a week or so ago. There is a Windows settings that forces all windows to show up on the visible part of the screen. I don't remember where or what it is, but I found it in windows Help (imagine that!). Fred -- Fred Wersan Senior Technical Writer MAK Technologies 68 Moulton St. Cambridge, MA 02138 617-876-8085
Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
I would strongly suggest giving the folders numeric names in the mmdd format (e.g. 20080929) then you will be easily able to find the latest. Peter -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Art Campbell Sent: 29 September 2008 12:34 To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Backup folder in Frame 7.0? And building on that, you can, occasionally, convert them into a snapshot backup directory. Just move the files to a date-stamped directory of your choice: /project/August_10/ /project/August_20/ /project/August_30/ As you reopen and save files in FM, the .backup.fms are created again, so you have both a collection of last-saved files and incremental backup directories. Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded grl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Fred Ridder wrote: > > Jack Molisani wrote: >> I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the >> backup files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. >> >> Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the >> backup files? > The "backup" files aren't really backups. Once you understand what > they actually are it will become clear that they can only exist in the > same directory as the working source files. > > The "backup" are actually the last saved version of the file but with > a new, secondary filename extension. When you select the "Automatic > backup on save" option, all that FrameMaker does when you do a Save is > rename the previous version of the file with a .bak extenstion rather > than flagging it for deletion by the OS. The "backup" is therefore > always one save behind the working file unless you go to the extra > trouble of making FrameMaker let you do two consecutive saves. If you > save frequenty, the differences between the .bak and the workng file > may not be major, but the .bak will *always* lack the last set of > saved changes. > > -Fred Ridder > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gma > il.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as peter at galley.ie. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/peter%40galley.ie Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Backup folder in Frame 7.0?
Hi Jack... I've got a plugin that will create the backup in a specified folder (in an absolute or relative location). One of these days I'll get around to posting it to my website, but if you (or anyone else) are interested in a "beta" version, contact me offlist. Cheers, ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 > Jack Molisani wrote: > >> I like that FM can make a backup copy of files, but I don't like the backup >> files cluttering up the same folder as the source files. >> >> Is there any way to specify where FrameMaker 7.0 should create the backup >> files? >> > >
Migrating features over to InDesign
Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of existing Frame projects reasonably simple. _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Findon Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 01:41 a.m. To: FrameUsers List Subject: Migrating features over to InDesign Framers, Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group in 2004. Paul Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I'm not counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it's time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the important aspects of document composition to support; which direction to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; wouldn't it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and extract one ideal application. Warnock: Well, that's a complicated problem. And there's a fair bit of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it from a very 'let's go build magazines' kind of perspective. Then there was the other set of the world that works with highly structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love FrameMaker; I've been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, the InDesign crowd doesn't understand the structured document world as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling. Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I'm a structured-document person: I like them! Interviewer: You're in good company here! I've been using FrameMaker for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 on the Mac under Classic mode - for the rest of time, perhaps. Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign that will have the same properties. And to InDesign's credit, there are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven't fundamentally solved the structure problem. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as lea at astoria-pacific.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Migrating features over to InDesign
While it was good of Paul to repost from the archives, he noted that the interview was done in 2004. I think the only conclusion anyone could reach is that Adobe is still implementing on the plan that they brought forward four or five years ago. Nothing new there... Art Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded grl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush wrote: > Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign > to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of > existing Frame projects reasonably simple. > > _ > > Lea Rush > Software and Documentation Specialist > Astoria-Pacific International > PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 > PH: 800-657-3010 > FAX: 503-655-7367 > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Findon > Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 01:41 a.m. > To: FrameUsers List > Subject: Migrating features over to InDesign > > Framers, > > Following the recent discussion of FM features migrating to InDesign, > here's a snippet from an interview between Adobe Co-Chairman John > Warnock and Conrad Taylor, BCS Electronic Publishing Specialist Group > in 2004. > > Paul > > > Interviewer: Adobe has found itself in the situation of owning three > page make-up systems: PageMaker, InDesign and FrameMaker. I'm not > counting Illustrator for these purposes. When one starts to think > about Adobe getting involved in document composition issues, it's > time to pull out the flipchart and brainstorm about what are the > important aspects of document composition to support; which direction > to go. Those of us who use these tools often look around at other > software: 3B2 does this, Xyvision does this, Quark does this; > wouldn't it be nice to put them all in the blender, so to speak, and > extract one ideal application. > > Warnock: Well, that's a complicated problem. And there's a fair bit > of disagreement inside of Adobe as to what the appropriate thing is > to do. PageMaker as a codebase was just very long in the tooth: it > was not a maintainable codebase. It was clear when we acquired it > that it was not going to last for very long. Too much spaghetti-code: > very difficult. InDesign had just started as a project when we > acquired Aldus, and we continued with a very strong group of people: > Robert Brainsea and Zak Williamson, and a very strong group of people > who built the architecture for InDesign. But they were coming at it > from a very 'let's go build magazines' kind of perspective. Then > there was the other set of the world that works with highly > structured documents, and the FrameMaker world. And I absolutely love > FrameMaker; I've been a very strong proponent of FrameMaker. But > FrameMaker was also suffering from an old codebase. Essentially, the > idea is to start migrating features over to InDesign. Unfortunately, > the InDesign crowd doesn't understand the structured document world > as well as they need to, and so that migration has been coming along > more slowly than I would have liked it to have been. > > Interviewer: Some of the pagination issues, and table-handling. > > Warnock: Yes, and cross-referencing, and forward-referencing, and all > the things about dealing with highly structured documents. I'm a > structured-document person: I like them! > > Interviewer: You're in good company here! I've been using FrameMaker > for Macintosh since version 2.1. And now I shall be using Frame 7.0 > on the Mac under Classic mode - for the rest of time, perhaps. > > Warnock: Well hopefully someday there will be a version of InDesign > that will have the same properties. And to InDesign's credit, there > are people who have done math plug-ins and have started to get the > more arcane things into InDesign. But they haven't fundamentally > solved the structure problem. > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as lea at astoria-pacific.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co > m > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit >
Migrating features over to InDesign
What is so terribly sad is that Adobe has never really shown that it understands what FrameMaker is for. They have always had their head firmly in the designer/graphics artist/page layout camp. Scott At 8:57 AM -0700 9/29/08, Lea Rush wrote: >Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign >to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of >existing Frame projects reasonably simple. > >_ > >Lea Rush >Software and Documentation Specialist >Astoria-Pacific International >PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 >PH: 800-657-3010 >FAX: 503-655-7367 >-
Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi, Lea: In case you missed it, I've noted some of the differences between FM and ID that make it difficult to accomplish perfect automated conversions in this thread: http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2008-September/013757.html If your documents rely heavily on the problematic features, consider posting your requests for changes in both FM and ID at Adobe's official link: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform HTH Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Lea Rush wrote: > Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign > to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of > existing Frame projects reasonably simple. > > _ > > Lea Rush
Migrating features over to InDesign
quills at airmail.net wrote: > What is so terribly sad is that Adobe has never really shown that it > understands what FrameMaker is for. They have always had their head > firmly in the designer/graphics artist/page layout camp. Hmm. Based on that interview excerpt, Warnock was firmly _not_ in the designer/graphics artist/page layout camp. He was all about "highly structured" long documents and said he loved FM. Adobe is a large organization. It doesn't have just one understanding and one head. Are there lots of designer/artist types at Adobe? Sure. Do they have lots of sway? Sure, probably just about in proportion to the percentage of Adobe's revenue that their designer/artist-oriented software produces. Are there people at Adobe who understand what FM is for? Of course. Do they have lots of sway? Um, well, probably just about in proportion to the percentage of Adobe's revenue that FM produces. And that's the real issue, not lack of someone's understanding. Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 --
Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi Peter, Thanks for the reminder and the link. Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. *Yes, I'm one of those evil people who both develops the software and writes the manual. I do my best in our small company... _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 09:44 a.m. To: Lea Rush Cc: FrameUsers List Subject: Re: Migrating features over to InDesign Hi, Lea: In case you missed it, I've noted some of the differences between FM and ID that make it difficult to accomplish perfect automated conversions in this thread: http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/2008-September/013757.html If your documents rely heavily on the problematic features, consider posting your requests for changes in both FM and ID at Adobe's official link: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform HTH Regards, Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Lea Rush wrote: > Damn. Thanks for the heads' up. My hope is that once they consider InDesign > to have incorporated Frame's features, they also make the migration of > existing Frame projects reasonably simple. > > _ > > Lea Rush ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as lea at astoria-pacific.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi, Lea: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thanks for the reminder and the link. You're welcome. > Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame > until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of > duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can > put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. I hope I haven't unintentionally implied or added to the suspicion that FM is/will be discontinued in favor of ID. The FM "Next" development team is working intensely as always. Don't be shy about posting wishes to Adobe's official feature-request site: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform Regards, Peter __ Peter Gold KnowHow ProServices
Migrating features over to InDesign
To be very specific about this (and to hopefully avoid the seemingly annual "FrameMaker is dead" ritual), there are absolutely NO plans within Adobe at this time to discontinue FrameMaker in favor of InDesign. The features added to InDesign that are "Framemaker-like" are specifically per the request of InDesign users and have not been intended as a means of inducing FrameMaker users to migrate although that may be the unintended effect in some cases. In fact, the next major release of FrameMaker is currently under active development with thoughts as to what would go into subsequent releases. - Dov > -Original Message- > From: Peter Gold > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:38 AM > > Hi, Lea: > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > > Thanks for the reminder and the link. > > You're welcome. > > > Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame > > until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of > > duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can > > put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. > > I hope I haven't unintentionally implied or added to the suspicion > that FM is/will be discontinued in favor of ID. The FM "Next" > development team is working intensely as always. Don't be shy about > posting wishes to Adobe's official feature-request site: > > http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform > > Regards, > > Peter > __ > Peter Gold > KnowHow ProServices
Migrating features over to InDesign
Hi Dov, Thank you for the clarification. I've had other seemingly immortal software packages die out from under me, and it's good to hear that the increasingly Frame-like features of InDesign aren't indicative. This is yet another example of why having official vendor reps on a list like this is a very good thing. :) Thanks again, Lea _ Lea Rush Software and Documentation Specialist Astoria-Pacific International PO Box 830 Clackamas OR 97015 PH: 800-657-3010 FAX: 503-655-7367 -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Dov Isaacs Sent: lunes, 29 de septiembre de 2008 11:03 a.m. To: peter at knowhowpro.com; Lea Rush Cc: FrameUsers List Subject: RE: Migrating features over to InDesign Importance: High To be very specific about this (and to hopefully avoid the seemingly annual "FrameMaker is dead" ritual), there are absolutely NO plans within Adobe at this time to discontinue FrameMaker in favor of InDesign. The features added to InDesign that are "Framemaker-like" are specifically per the request of InDesign users and have not been intended as a means of inducing FrameMaker users to migrate although that may be the unintended effect in some cases. In fact, the next major release of FrameMaker is currently under active development with thoughts as to what would go into subsequent releases. - Dov > -Original Message- > From: Peter Gold > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:38 AM > > Hi, Lea: > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Lea Rush wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > > Thanks for the reminder and the link. > > You're welcome. > > > Quite frankly, I'll be using Frame > > until it's metaphorically pried from my cold, dead fingers. I have a lot of > > duties aside from document creation and maintainence*, and the longer I can > > put off the inevitable learning curve, the better. > > I hope I haven't unintentionally implied or added to the suspicion > that FM is/will be discontinued in favor of ID. The FM "Next" > development team is working intensely as always. Don't be shy about > posting wishes to Adobe's official feature-request site: > > http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform > > Regards, > > Peter > __ > Peter Gold > KnowHow ProServices ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as lea at astoria-pacific.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lea%40astoria-pacific.co m Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Frame 7.2 and SiberSafe
Does anyone use the content management system from SiberLogic? It's called SiberSafe. I was wondering if anyone has this CMS and if you do could you describe any issues you've had with it related to single source publishing, structured authoring using DITA/DocBook? Security issues when checking out an entire course, etc. Thanks, Tony Tasillo Tony Tasillo Project Specialist and Customer Service Relations Representative TEEX Operations 301 Tarrow Drive, Suite 268 College Station, TX 77840-7896 Phone: 979/458-6029 Fax: 979/458-6822 tony.tasillo at teexmail.tamu.edu
missing fonts after changing computers;customize maker.inifile? Can't find ini file
Had to limit the search to the FrameMaker folder; was searching the entire local drive-my mistake! Thanks Scott -Original Message- From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 4:09 PM To: Scott Penney; framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: missing fonts after changing computers;customize maker.inifile? Can't find ini file Scott Penney wrote: > Following the "Customizing" pdf manual and advice I've received on this > list, I was attempting to locate the maker.ini file (for FM 7.1) to change > the font specs (the manual indicates the path > UserProfile\ApplicationData\Adobe\FrameMaker\7.0). Looking under Program > Files\Adobe\FrameMaker 7.1, no maker.ini file is evident. I've also run > searches with no results. Any ideas? Did you see my response from yesterday afternoon? Here is the relevant portion again: --- The main maker.ini is right where it's always been -- the FM installation folder -- and that's the one you probably want to make font mapping changes in. There's another one for your personal settings, but it's mainly for things like window sizes and positions, recent files, etc. "UserProfile" is a variable referring to a specific user's "profile" data, the location of which depends on the Windows version. This is all explained on page 1 of the Customizing manual under the heading "Locating customization files." There's a table there that shows you where UserProfile is for each Windows version. Are you saying that a search of your hard drive turns up _zero_ instances of maker.ini? I don't think that's possible with a functioning FM install. But I could be wrong. It happened once before. ;-) Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- Please consider the environment before printing this email. The information contained in this communication and any attachment(s) and/or link(s) hereto may contain proprietary and/or confidential information, which may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, and is intended only for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please return it to the sender immediately and delete the original message from your computer system. If you have any questions concerning this message, please contact the sender.
Changing Track Revisions display
Frame 8 includes a Track Text Edits feature that is similar to Microsoft Word's Track Changes. Inserted text shows up as green underlined and deleted text as red strikethough. It doesn't appear to be possible to change these settings. I would like to have deleted text hidden. I thought that Frame might use conditional text to control the display of tracked text. It does show up in the status line as either FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_ADDED or FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_DELETED, in the same spot as conditional text. However, as far as I can see, these conditions (if that's what they are), don't show up in any of the conditional text dialogs. Is it possible to modify how FrameMaker displays these tracked changes? Thanks Keith Soltys
Changing Track Revisions display
Hi Keith... As far as I've been able to tell .. these are conditions, but they are *special* conditions. They don't show up in the standard condition UI, and you can't easily change their appearance or hide/show state. If you export this to a MIF, you'll see that they look like normal conditions, but if you try changing the hide/show or coloring in the MIF, they will revert back to the standard appearance when you open it in FM. Their properties must be hard-coded in some manner. I'd imagine that an FDK plugin or FrameScript could change this (haven't tried yet) but I'm not aware of any "normal" ways to change their appearance. ...scott Scott Prentice Leximation, Inc. www.leximation.com +1.415.485.1892 Keith Soltys wrote: > Frame 8 includes a Track Text Edits feature that is similar to Microsoft > Word's Track Changes. Inserted text shows up as green underlined and > deleted text as red strikethough. It doesn't appear to be possible to > change these settings. > > I would like to have deleted text hidden. I thought that Frame might use > conditional text to control the display of tracked text. It does show up > in the status line as either FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_ADDED or > FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_DELETED, in the same spot as conditional text. > However, as far as I can see, these conditions (if that's what they > are), don't show up in any of the conditional text dialogs. > > Is it possible to modify how FrameMaker displays these tracked changes? > > Thanks > Keith Soltys > >
Changing Track Revisions display
Hi Keith and Scott, You can indeed use FrameScript or the FDK to change the appearance of these conditions. They can be programmatically changed just like any other condition. However, the changes do not survive when you close and reopen the document. The solution I have used is a FrameScript event script that automatically changes them when the document is opened. I am sure you could do this with the FDK as well. Keith, if you are interested in a FrameScript solution, please contact me offlist. Thanks. Rick Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Hi Keith... > > As far as I've been able to tell .. these are conditions, but they are > *special* conditions. They don't show up in the standard condition UI, > and you can't easily change their appearance or hide/show state. If you > export this to a MIF, you'll see that they look like normal conditions, > but if you try changing the hide/show or coloring in the MIF, they will > revert back to the standard appearance when you open it in FM. Their > properties must be hard-coded in some manner. > > I'd imagine that an FDK plugin or FrameScript could change this (haven't > tried yet) but I'm not aware of any "normal" ways to change their > appearance. > > ...scott > > Scott Prentice > Leximation, Inc. > www.leximation.com > +1.415.485.1892 > > > > Keith Soltys wrote: >> Frame 8 includes a Track Text Edits feature that is similar to Microsoft >> Word's Track Changes. Inserted text shows up as green underlined and >> deleted text as red strikethough. It doesn't appear to be possible to >> change these settings. >> >> I would like to have deleted text hidden. I thought that Frame might use >> conditional text to control the display of tracked text. It does show up >> in the status line as either FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_ADDED or >> FM8_TRACK_CHANGES_DELETED, in the same spot as conditional text. >> However, as far as I can see, these conditions (if that's what they >> are), don't show up in any of the conditional text dialogs. >> >> Is it possible to modify how FrameMaker displays these tracked changes? >> >> Thanks >> Keith Soltys
