Re: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Yves Barbion]

Triple-click still works in Fm9 (fortunately).


-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Mike Wickham i...@mikewickham.com wrote:

 If you're using the mouse, triple-clicking selects the whole paragraph.


 You know, I thought that was the shortcut, but when I tried it, it didn't
 work for me. Could this have changed in FM9? A search in Adobe Help and the
 online user guide didn't find the shortcut, either.

 Mike Wickham



 ___


 You are currently subscribed to framers as yves.barb...@gmail.com.

 Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

 To unsubscribe send a blank email to
 framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
 or visit
 http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com

 Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
 http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Mike Feimster]

The main problem is having overrides to begin with. Unless it is a very
small document, it is unlikely that you will have a single paragraph
that has a unique style. Either find an appropriate paragraph format or
create a new one. Then you can remove overrides at will without
stressing about breaking the document. It also makes document-wide
formatting changes relatively painless. If you create a good template,
it event makes library-wide formatting changes relatively painless.

Mike Feimster
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Combs, Richard]

Avraham Makeler wrote:
 
  Yes, you end up importing the formats back into itself.
 
 Oh dear...

Why Oh dear? Best practice is to not use format overrides (at least, 
paragraph format overrides; some bohemian types play fast and loose with the 
character formats). Importing from the current doc's catalog effectively 
removes overrides, which is a good thing. 
 
  To change just one paragraph, I would try and determine what was done to
 modify that particular paragraph by comparing the settings,
 
 Comparing the settings ... and eyeballing field by field, tab by tab ...
 Oh dear... so much for hi-tech...

As you've since been told, this was bad information. No such painful process is 
necessary. You just apply the format from the Catalog.
 
  using the paragraph Designer (Ctrl+M) of a modified and unmodified
 paragraph.
 
 And how can I be sure that any particular paragraph has remained
 unmodified?

In the status bar, there is an asterisk next to the paragraph format name. 
 
 Thinking ... And just suppose all paragraphs have all actually -- ALL --
 been modified? No way back?

What do you mean by way back? You can remove all the overrides and restore 
all paragraphs to their defined format by importing paragraph formats from the 
current doc, as noted above. That gets you back to the place you should get 
back to. :-)
 
 (And btw, simply clicking Apply in the Paragraph Designer does not work.
 Seems that FM notices that the paragraph already has that style and so
 doesn't apply anything. So the Paragraph Designer should offer a 'Force'
 option, IMO.)

That's because the Designer dialog changes to reflect the formatting at the 
current cursor position. If the cursor is in a location where the defined 
format was modified, and you click Apply without first changing any settings, 
you're simply applying what was already there. 
 
 This is all so convoluted that the simplest way I have found seems better
 than all the others: just change the paragraph style to any other style,
 and
 then change the paragraph style to back to what you want. That works.
 
 Anyway, if this is the way things are, Word beats FM hands down on this
 point.

No, it's not convoluted -- you got some convoluted advice early on, and you're 
not fully comfortable with the FM paradigm and tools. But once you learn those, 
you'll find that FM encourages and facilitates the use of defined formats 
(paragraph, character, and table), and it's much easier to consistently format 
a document -- with no local, ad hoc formatting -- in FM than in Word. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--




 
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Avraham Makeler]

 The main problem is having overrides to begin with.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Actually the main problem is having inherited a large number of FM documents
whose level of English and level of technical competence of the authoring
platform (in this case, FM) is the worst I have ever seen. And of course
there is no budget for doing an overhaul. I hope that answers your query,
and similar queries about the Oh dear.
:-)

Thanks,
avraham



On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Mike Feimster 
mike.feims...@acstechnologies.com wrote:

The main problem is having overrides to begin with. Unless it is a very
 small document, it is unlikely that you will have a single paragraph
 that has a unique style. Either find an appropriate paragraph format or
 create a new one. Then you can remove overrides at will without
 stressing about breaking the document. It also makes document-wide
 formatting changes relatively painless. If you create a good template,
 it event makes library-wide formatting changes relatively painless.

 Mike Feimster




-- 
Regards,

avraham
~
054-3084886


Mercy on all, coz everyone's fighting some sort of battle
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Combs, Richard]

Avraham Makeler wrote:
 
  There is no analogous action  snip
  There is no container  snip
 
 Who cares? All I know is that is that sometimes I need a quick way to
 remove all the local formatting (incl. paragraph formatting) from
 a paragraph, so it appears according to its current style. For example: snip

It seems I didn't explain myself clearly enough. You wanted a paragraph-level 
command analogous to the Default Para Font command at the 
text-string/character level, and I was trying to say that's neither possible 
nor necessary. 

The quick way to remove all the local formatting (incl. paragraph formatting) 
from a paragraph, so it appears according to its current style is simply this: 

1) If there is char formatting to remove (e.g., parts of the pgf are formatted 
differently), select the pgf (triple-click) and click Default Para Font in the 
Character Catalog. If the pgf is all formatted the same, skip to step 2. 

2) With the cursor in the pgf (or the pgf still selected), click its style 
(in FM, it's called a format or tag) in the Paragraph Catalog. 

3) There is no step 3. 

At step 2, you can of course choose a different pgf format. And you can apply 
pgf tags quickly with the keyboard, too. So, if you've got defined pgf formats 
that meet your needs, you can walk the cursor through a doc, retagging pgfs as 
you go, at a rate of several pages per minute. 

The quick way to remove all local formatting from all the pgfs in a doc, 
restoring them all to their defined formats, is to import paragraph formats 
(File  Import  Formats) from the current document with remove overrides 
selected. If the currently-applied tags are basically correct, this restores 
order quickly. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Avraham Makeler]

 There is no analogous action  snip
 There is no container  snip

Who cares? All I know is that is that sometimes I need a quick way to remove
all the local formatting (incl. paragraph formatting) from a paragraph, so
it appears according to its current style. For example:

(1) I am designing a new style (=tag), and I experiment with different
appearances of some sample content and I do this by playing with local
formatting. When I give up on a direction, I want to reset the paragraph and
start again. (And when I have got what I want, I define the new style.)

(2) I have inherited a large document that is badly formatted with local
formatting, as my case now, and if a rush job is required, I just carry on
in the same way, and as (1) above.

(3) Diagnostic operations.

avraham




On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Combs, Richard
richard.co...@polycom.comwrote:

 Avraham Makeler wrote:

  Note also, that there is a lack of symmetry in FM between the paragraph
  styling and the character styling. The Paragraph catalog does not have a
  'Default Paragraph' entry.

 Default Para Font removes local character formatting (char tag or ad
 hoc), restoring the text to the underlying paragraph format. Think of it as
 No Local Formatting. Of necessity, removing any locally-applied formatting
 leaves the formatting applied at the container (paragraph) level in control.

 There is no analogous action for paragraph formatting because there is no
 analogous state. There is no container for paragraphs that would permit you
 to specify formatting at a higher level. The paragraph is the highest-level
 object that possesses text-format attributes (along with paragraph-format
 attributes, of course).

 A paragraph can't have no format (tag) applied to it, and there is no
 document-wide default paragraph format. What would be the point? If you
 want to format all paragraphs a certain way, select them all (Ctrl+a) and
 apply a paragraph tag to them.


 Richard G. Combs
 Senior Technical Writer
 Polycom, Inc.
 richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
 303-223-5111
 --
 rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
 303-903-6372
 --









-- 
Regards,

avraham
~
054-3084886


Mercy on all, coz everyone's fighting some sort of battle
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Empty Job 0 kb ps file when print to file :: update

[Steve Johnson]

Install another PS printer if necessary and print to PS using that. If
you still get a zero file size your problem might be elsewhere, such
as the Windows print spooler. Can you print anything at all?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Baruch Brodersen bar...@technitext.com wrote:
  Acrobat  Help  Check for Updates Now failed to find four updates for
 7.1.0:
 7.1.1, 7.1.2, 7.13, 7.14
 Download, download, download, download, install, install, install, reboot,
 install, reboot: Nothing
 Acrobat  Detect and Repair, reboot: Nada.
 Acrobat  Help  About, reads 7.1.4
 Distiller  Help About, reads 7.1.0 4/23/2008
 Shouldn't Distillr have updated to 7.1.4 as well?
 In any event, I am still unable to produce a postscript file in Frame 7.0 p
 579 (on XP Pro SP 3) by printing to file.  Any help will be much
 appreicated. Dov?

 --
 B a r u c h   B r o d e r s e n
 T e c h n i t e x t   D o c u m e n t a t i o n
 ___


 You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com.

 Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

 To unsubscribe send a blank email to
 framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
 or visit 
 http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com

 Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
 http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.




-- 

Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Empty Job 0 kb ps file when print to file :: update

[Baruch Brodersen]

Art,
I downloaded Acrobat updates 7.12, 7.13, and 7.14 directly from Adobe and
installed them manually. It made no difference. the I upgrade to a trial
version of Acrobat 9.0. That created other problems that I didn't have the
bandwidth to troubleshoot, so I rolled back the rev to 7.0---all, of course,
to no positive effect.
I am able to generate a PDF directly from Frame, through TimeSavers even,
using the Save As PDF function. So fortunately i still have that option
available for the present.
Baruch

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.comwrote:

 So when you manually download the updates from the Acrobat Update page
 and install them, what happens?

 And instead of generating a PS file, what happens when you just
 distill a Frame file directly, without doing the intermediate step
 manually?

 Art Campbell
art.campb...@gmail.com
   ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
   No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358



 On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Baruch Brodersen bar...@technitext.com
 wrote:
   Acrobat  Help  Check for Updates Now failed to find four updates for
  7.1.0:
  7.1.1, 7.1.2, 7.13, 7.14
  Download, download, download, download, install, install, install,
 reboot,
  install, reboot: Nothing
  Acrobat  Detect and Repair, reboot: Nada.
  Acrobat  Help  About, reads 7.1.4
  Distiller  Help About, reads 7.1.0 4/23/2008
  Shouldn't Distillr have updated to 7.1.4 as well?
  In any event, I am still unable to produce a postscript file in Frame 7.0
 p
  579 (on XP Pro SP 3) by printing to file.  Any help will be much
  appreicated. Dov?
 
  --
  B a r u c h   B r o d e r s e n
  T e c h n i t e x t   D o c u m e n t a t i o n
  ___
 
 
  You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com.
 
  Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.
 
  To unsubscribe send a blank email to
  framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
  or visit
 http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
 
  Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
  http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
 




-- 
B a r u c h   B r o d e r s e n
T e c h n i t e x t   D o c u m e n t a t i o n
8 7 7  7 2 1  6 9 8 8
T w i t t e r :  @baruchbrodersen
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Steve Rickaby]

At 20:15 +0200 26/9/10, Avraham Makeler wrote:

In FM 7.2 how do you remove local character and paragraph formatting from
a paragraph to return it to the formatting of its current paragraph style
(tag). The formatting of its current paragraph style is as currently defined
in the Paragraph Catalog (and which appears in the Paragraph Designer when
you place the cursor on the paragraph.

If (as sounds likely) you have a load of these issues to deal with, you might 
find it useful to look at SiliconPrairie's Paragraph Tools and Character Tools 
plugins. These both offer commands to find local overrides and remove them, as 
well as many other useful stuff. They are very reasonably priced.

http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com

-- 
---
Steve Rickaby, WordMongers Ltd http://www.wordmongers.co.uk
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Help with table continuation variable

[Combs, Richard]

Steve Pawlowskis wrote:
 
 I'm working on a print catalog in Framemaker that is created from a MIF
 file that is being generated by a database program. There are tables that
 span multiple columns and I am looking for the best way make the reader
 aware of this.
 
 Ideally, at the bottom of the first column I would like to have text such
 as More or Continued and perhaps a graphic arrow to let the reader know
 that there are more products in the next column or on the next page. At the
 top of the table in the following column it would be great if I could
 display Cont. AND text (the Product Heading) that would change for each
 product table.
 
 I've played with the table continuation and table sheet variables and I
 think that I could insert them into the mif output and dynamically change
 their value but I am stuck at how to place them where I would like. It
 appears that I need to place the variable in the table title and I only
 have the choice of placing the table title at the top OR the bottom of each
 table.

No, you can place those variables (or others, or static text like More) in 
heading and footing rows, which repeat automatically on each page/column. So I 
suspect the solution lies in using heading and/or footing rows instead of (or 
in addition to) a title. 

But I can't think of any way to have More appear in all the footing rows 
except the last, unless you script a fix to be applied just before 
printing/publishing. For a FrameScript solution, contact Rick Quatro 
(frameexpert.com). 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--






___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Yves Barbion]

Hi Avraham

If you want to remove all formatting overrides from all paragraphs, the
following plug-ins may help:

Paragraph Tools:
http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com/Products.html

HuntOverrides:
http://www.cudspan.net/plugins/

Cheers

-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com

Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Avraham Makeler]

Hi Nadine, Thanks for your response.

>> If I understand you correctly, you want to remove formatting overrides to
text within a paragraph (ie, whatever makes it formatted differently from
the defined paragraph tag)

Almost. I want to remove all formatting overrides to all the paragraph's
'properties' (including its text). E.g., to remove also the spacing between
the paragraph and its neighboring paragraphs. So that which you suggest,
namely "Select the offending text, and in the Character catalog, choose
Default Para Font.", does only half the job.

Anyway, somebody answered offlist. The way to do this is to open the
Paragraphs catalog and locate the entry for the style of the offending
paragraph,
and then click it.

So this is a two stage job (just like in Word).

Note also, that there is a lack of symmetry in FM between the paragraph
styling and the character styling. The Paragraph catalog does not have a
'Default Paragraph' entry.

Thanks,

avraham



On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Writer  wrote:

> If I understand you correctly, you want to remove formatting overrides to
> text within a paragraph (ie, whatever makes it formatted differently from
> the defined paragraph tag). Select the offending text, and in the Character
> catalog, choose Default Para Font.
>
> That should remove any formatting overrides. Sometimes I found I have to
> select the text, apply the para tag, and then choose Default Para Font to
> get it to work.
>
> Nadine
>
> --- On Sun, 9/26/10, David Spreadbury  wrote:
>
> > From: David Spreadbury 
> > Subject: Re: To remove local formatting from a paragraph
> > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com, "Avraham Makeler"  > gmail.com>
> > Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 3:02 PM
> > Avraham,
> > In Framemaker this is done by importing the paragraph and
> > Character formats of the document(s) into the document(s).
> >
> > With the mis-tagged document open, select File > Import
> > > Formats.
> > Click Select All, to uncheck all options (default)
> > Check the Paragraph and Character Format options.
> > Check the Other Format/Layout Overrides (this is what
> > removes the formatting overrides)
> > Click Import.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > --- On Sun, 9/26/10, Avraham Makeler 
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Avraham Makeler 
> > Subject: To remove local formatting from a paragraph
> > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 1:15 PM
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > In FM 7.2 how do you remove local character and paragraph
> > formatting from
> > a paragraph to return it to the formatting of its current
> > paragraph style
> > (tag). The formatting of its current paragraph style is as
> > currently defined
> > in the Paragraph Catalog (and which appears in the
> > Paragraph Designer when
> > you place the cursor on the paragraph.
> >
> > In MS Word, which I know better than FM, you would do this
> > with a ResetPara
> > command, whose shortcut is Ctrl+Q.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > avraham
> >
> > ___
> >
> >
> > You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca.
> >
> > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> > or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca
> >
> > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com.
> > Visit
> > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and
> > info.
> > a
>
>


-- 
Regards,

avraham
~
054-3084886


"Mercy on all, coz everyone's fighting some sort of battle"

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Yves Barbion]

Triple-click still works in Fm9 (fortunately).


-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Mike Wickham  wrote:

> If you're using the mouse, triple-clicking selects the whole paragraph.
>>
>
> You know, I thought that was the shortcut, but when I tried it, it didn't
> work for me. Could this have changed in FM9? A search in Adobe Help and the
> online user guide didn't find the shortcut, either.
>
> Mike Wickham
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as yves.barbion at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Mike Feimster]

The main problem is having overrides to begin with. Unless it is a very
small document, it is unlikely that you will have a single paragraph
that has a unique style. Either find an appropriate paragraph format or
create a new one. Then you can remove overrides at will without
stressing about breaking the document. It also makes document-wide
formatting changes relatively painless. If you create a good template,
it event makes library-wide formatting changes relatively painless.

Mike Feimster

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Combs, Richard]

Avraham Makeler wrote:

> >> Yes, you end up importing the formats back into itself.
> 
> Oh dear...

Why "Oh dear"? Best practice is to not use format overrides (at least, 
paragraph format overrides; some bohemian types play fast and loose with the 
character formats). Importing from the current doc's catalog effectively 
removes overrides, which is a good thing. 

> >> To change just one paragraph, I would try and determine what was done to
> modify that particular paragraph by comparing the settings,
> 
> Comparing the settings ... and eyeballing field by field, tab by tab ...
> Oh dear... so much for hi-tech...

As you've since been told, this was bad information. No such painful process is 
necessary. You just apply the format from the Catalog.

> >> using the paragraph Designer (Ctrl+M) of a modified and unmodified
> paragraph.
> 
> And how can I be sure that any particular paragraph has remained
> unmodified?

In the status bar, there is an asterisk next to the paragraph format name. 

> Thinking ... And just suppose all paragraphs have all actually -- ALL --
> been modified? No way back?

What do you mean by "way back"? You can remove all the overrides and restore 
all paragraphs to their defined format by importing paragraph formats from the 
current doc, as noted above. That gets you back to the place you should get 
back to. :-)

> (And btw, simply clicking Apply in the Paragraph Designer does not work.
> Seems that FM notices that the paragraph already has that style and so
> doesn't apply anything. So the Paragraph Designer should offer a 'Force'
> option, IMO.)

That's because the Designer dialog changes to reflect the formatting at the 
current cursor position. If the cursor is in a location where the defined 
format was modified, and you click Apply without first changing any settings, 
you're simply applying what was already there. 

> This is all so convoluted that the simplest way I have found seems better
> than all the others: just change the paragraph style to any other style,
> and
> then change the paragraph style to back to what you want. That works.
> 
> Anyway, if this is the way things are, Word beats FM hands down on this
> point.

No, it's not convoluted -- you got some convoluted advice early on, and you're 
not fully comfortable with the FM paradigm and tools. But once you learn those, 
you'll find that FM encourages and facilitates the use of defined formats 
(paragraph, character, and table), and it's much easier to consistently format 
a document -- with no local, ad hoc formatting -- in FM than in Word. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Combs, Richard]

Avraham Makeler wrote:

> Note also, that there is a lack of symmetry in FM between the paragraph
> styling and the character styling. The Paragraph catalog does not have a
> 'Default Paragraph' entry.

"Default Para Font" removes local character formatting (char tag or ad hoc), 
restoring the text to the underlying paragraph format. Think of it as "No Local 
Formatting." Of necessity, removing any locally-applied formatting leaves the 
formatting applied at the container (paragraph) level in control. 

There is no analogous action for paragraph formatting because there is no 
analogous state. There is no container for paragraphs that would permit you to 
specify formatting at a higher level. The paragraph is the highest-level object 
that possesses text-format attributes (along with paragraph-format attributes, 
of course). 

A paragraph can't have no format (tag) applied to it, and there is no 
document-wide "default paragraph format." What would be the point? If you want 
to format all paragraphs a certain way, select them all (Ctrl+a) and apply a 
paragraph tag to them. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Avraham Makeler]

>> The main problem is having overrides to begin with.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Actually the main problem is having inherited a large number of FM documents
whose level of English and level of technical competence of the authoring
platform (in this case, FM) is the worst I have ever seen. And of course
there is no budget for doing an overhaul. I hope that answers your query,
and similar queries about the "Oh dear".
:-)

Thanks,
avraham



On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Mike Feimster <
Mike.Feimster at acstechnologies.com> wrote:

The main problem is having overrides to begin with. Unless it is a very
> small document, it is unlikely that you will have a single paragraph
> that has a unique style. Either find an appropriate paragraph format or
> create a new one. Then you can remove overrides at will without
> stressing about breaking the document. It also makes document-wide
> formatting changes relatively painless. If you create a good template,
> it event makes library-wide formatting changes relatively painless.
>
> Mike Feimster
>



-- 
Regards,

avraham
~
054-3084886


"Mercy on all, coz everyone's fighting some sort of battle"

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Mike Wickham]

>> And how can I be sure that any particular paragraph has remained
>> unmodified?
>
> In the status bar, there is an asterisk next to the paragraph format name.

That sounds like you are saying the opposite of what I'm sure you meant. The 
asterisk shows that a paragraph has been modified. Unmodified paragraphs 
lack the asterisk.

Mike Wickham

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Combs, Richard]

Mike Wickham wrote:

> >> And how can I be sure that any particular paragraph has remained
> >> unmodified?
> >
> > In the status bar, there is an asterisk next to the paragraph format
> name.
> 
> That sounds like you are saying the opposite of what I'm sure you meant.
> The
> asterisk shows that a paragraph has been modified. Unmodified paragraphs
> lack the asterisk.

Oops, right -- I read the question too quickly. Thanks for clarifying that! 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Combs, Richard]

Avraham Makeler wrote:

> >> There is no analogous action ?
> >> There is no container??
> 
> Who cares? All I know is that is that sometimes I need a quick way to
> remove all the local formatting (incl.?paragraph formatting) from
> a?paragraph, so it appears according to its current style. For example: 

It seems I didn't explain myself clearly enough. You wanted a paragraph-level 
command analogous to the "Default Para Font" command at the 
text-string/character level, and I was trying to say that's neither possible 
nor necessary. 

The "quick way to remove all the local formatting (incl. paragraph formatting) 
from a paragraph, so it appears according to its current style" is simply this: 

1) If there is char formatting to remove (e.g., parts of the pgf are formatted 
differently), select the pgf (triple-click) and click Default Para Font in the 
Character Catalog. If the pgf is all formatted the same, skip to step 2. 

2) With the cursor in the pgf (or the pgf still selected), click its "style" 
(in FM, it's called a "format" or "tag") in the Paragraph Catalog. 

3) There is no step 3. 

At step 2, you can of course choose a different pgf format. And you can apply 
pgf tags quickly with the keyboard, too. So, if you've got defined pgf formats 
that meet your needs, you can walk the cursor through a doc, retagging pgfs as 
you go, at a rate of several pages per minute. 

The quick way to remove all local formatting from all the pgfs in a doc, 
restoring them all to their defined formats, is to import paragraph formats 
(File > Import > Formats) from the current document with remove overrides 
selected. If the currently-applied tags are basically correct, this restores 
order quickly. 

HTH!

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Avraham Makeler]

>> There is no analogous action  
>> There is no container  

Who cares? All I know is that is that sometimes I need a quick way to remove
all the local formatting (incl. paragraph formatting) from a paragraph, so
it appears according to its current style. For example:

(1) I am designing a new style (=tag), and I experiment with different
appearances of some sample content and I do this by playing with local
formatting. When I give up on a direction, I want to reset the paragraph and
start again. (And when I have got what I want, I define the new style.)

(2) I have inherited a large document that is badly formatted with local
formatting, as my case now, and if a rush job is required, I just carry on
in the same way, and as (1) above.

(3) Diagnostic operations.

avraham




On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Combs, Richard
wrote:

> Avraham Makeler wrote:
>
> > Note also, that there is a lack of symmetry in FM between the paragraph
> > styling and the character styling. The Paragraph catalog does not have a
> > 'Default Paragraph' entry.
>
> "Default Para Font" removes local character formatting (char tag or ad
> hoc), restoring the text to the underlying paragraph format. Think of it as
> "No Local Formatting." Of necessity, removing any locally-applied formatting
> leaves the formatting applied at the container (paragraph) level in control.
>
> There is no analogous action for paragraph formatting because there is no
> analogous state. There is no container for paragraphs that would permit you
> to specify formatting at a higher level. The paragraph is the highest-level
> object that possesses text-format attributes (along with paragraph-format
> attributes, of course).
>
> A paragraph can't have no format (tag) applied to it, and there is no
> document-wide "default paragraph format." What would be the point? If you
> want to format all paragraphs a certain way, select them all (Ctrl+a) and
> apply a paragraph tag to them.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> --
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Regards,

avraham
~
054-3084886


"Mercy on all, coz everyone's fighting some sort of battle"

Help with table continuation variable

[Steve Pawlowskis]

I'm working on a print catalog in Framemaker that is created from a MIF file 
that is being generated by a database program. There are tables that span 
multiple columns and I am looking for the best way make the reader aware of 
this.

Ideally, at the bottom of the first column I would like to have text such as 
"More" or "Continued" and perhaps a graphic arrow to let the reader know that 
there are more products in the next column or on the next page. At the top of 
the table in the following column it would be great if I could display "Cont." 
AND text (the Product Heading) that would change for each product table.

I've played with the table continuation and table sheet variables and I think 
that I could insert them into the mif output and dynamically change their value 
but I am stuck at how to place them where I would like. It appears that I need 
to place the variable in the table title and I only have the choice of placing 
the table title at the top OR the bottom of each table.

Option 1: Place the table title at the bottom of the table. I can achieve the 
"More" at the base of the first column but I also get "More" at the end of the 
table and nothing at the top of the continued table.

Option 2: Place the table title at the top of the table. I can achieve the 
"Cont." at the top of the continued part of the table but then there is nothing 
at the end of the first column.

If I can't achieve exactly what I want then option 1 would could possibly work 
if I could somehow suppress the "More" at the very end of the table.

I'm hoping somebody has a trick or two up their sleeve to accomplish what I 
want.

Steve Pawlowskis
E-mail: stevep at kaufmanco.com

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Steve Rickaby]

At 20:15 +0200 26/9/10, Avraham Makeler wrote:

>In FM 7.2 how do you remove local character and paragraph formatting from
>a paragraph to return it to the formatting of its current paragraph style
>(tag). The formatting of its current paragraph style is as currently defined
>in the Paragraph Catalog (and which appears in the Paragraph Designer when
>you place the cursor on the paragraph.

If (as sounds likely) you have a load of these issues to deal with, you might 
find it useful to look at SiliconPrairie's Paragraph Tools and Character Tools 
plugins. These both offer commands to find local overrides and remove them, as 
well as many other useful stuff. They are very reasonably priced.



-- 
---
Steve Rickaby, WordMongers Ltd http://www.wordmongers.co.uk

Help with table continuation variable

[Combs, Richard]

Steve Pawlowskis wrote:

> I'm working on a print catalog in Framemaker that is created from a MIF
> file that is being generated by a database program. There are tables that
> span multiple columns and I am looking for the best way make the reader
> aware of this.
> 
> Ideally, at the bottom of the first column I would like to have text such
> as "More" or "Continued" and perhaps a graphic arrow to let the reader know
> that there are more products in the next column or on the next page. At the
> top of the table in the following column it would be great if I could
> display "Cont." AND text (the Product Heading) that would change for each
> product table.
> 
> I've played with the table continuation and table sheet variables and I
> think that I could insert them into the mif output and dynamically change
> their value but I am stuck at how to place them where I would like. It
> appears that I need to place the variable in the table title and I only
> have the choice of placing the table title at the top OR the bottom of each
> table.

No, you can place those variables (or others, or static text like "More") in 
heading and footing rows, which repeat automatically on each page/column. So I 
suspect the solution lies in using heading and/or footing rows instead of (or 
in addition to) a title. 

But I can't think of any way to have "More" appear in all the footing rows 
except the last, unless you script a fix to be applied just before 
printing/publishing. For a FrameScript solution, contact Rick Quatro 
(frameexpert.com). 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

To remove local formatting from a paragraph

[Yves Barbion]

Hi Avraham

If you want to remove all formatting overrides from all paragraphs, the
following plug-ins may help:

Paragraph Tools:
http://www.siliconprairiesoftware.com/Products.html

HuntOverrides:
http://www.cudspan.net/plugins/

Cheers

-- 
Yves Barbion
www.scripto.nu