[Framers] Hyperlinks

[Mikey Shine]

Some of my url links are not being created correctly when creating a PDF from 
Frame. Most often, this seems to happen if/when a url is split across two lines 
of text but this is not always the case. Does anyone know of a way to prevent 
this from happening?

Also is anyone aware of a good software that would check all hyperlinks within 
a PDF and generate some sort of report broken links?
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Craig Ede]

Too true! Thanks for pointing that out, Robert.


Craig


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Robert Lauriston 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 4:13 PM
To: dennis.brunnenme...@gmail.com; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

... Even the sample files Adobe
distributes have a bunch of junk in them.


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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 22:33 + 29/11/16, I wrote:
>As others have said, don't use the formatting bar. It is heap bad juju, and 
>only there to stop folks who are used to work feeling uncomfortable ;-)

Dang: fniger truoble. What I mean to write was '... and only there to stop 
folks who are used to Word feeling uncomfortable.'

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 22:33 + 29/11/16, Steve Rickaby wrote:

>This sender failed our fraud detection checks and may not be who they appear 
>to be. Learn about spoofing at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSpoofing

I don't know who or what added this, but I am who I say I am. Mind you, these 
days I can't be entirely sure about anything ;-)

This is me...
-- 
Steve Rickaby BSc MBCS CITP MISTC  

WordMongers Ltd
Registered office Larks Cottage, Treen, St Levan, Penzance TR19 6LG
Registered in the UK, no. 3130681, VAT reg no GB 557 4598 91
Telephone: 44 (1) 736 810575
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Steve Rickaby]

Dennis - other have answered most of these points. I sympathize: FrameMaker is 
a big learning curve, but you likely won't regret it. My 10c below...

At 08:46 -0800 29/11/16, Dennis Brunnenmeyer wrote:

>As a relatively new beginner, I hate to bother experts with this question, but 
>where can I find concise information about the topics below. I have the 
>original Adobe 7.0 book as well as their Classroom In A Book. Neither of them, 
>as far as I can tell, address the overall concept of how these tools described 
>below interact with each other. Instead, those books seem to be just a list of 
>step-by-step procedures on how to accomplish tasks.

I never rated the Classroom in a Book series much, although others may 
disagree. However, although FrameMaker 7 is old, it's entirely usable as long 
as you don't need anything like DITA or structure. (Actually, it's also usable 
for structured docs, but that isn't of interest to you right now.)

>Oh, and I also have The Complete Reference / FrameMaker 7 book by Sarah 
>O'Keefe and Sheila Loring. It's size alone is intimidating, but maybe the 
>information I need is somewhere in there.

Yes, it is. It's a very comprehensive book. You could do worse than work 
through the earlier chapters on FrameMaker basics.

>It seems to me that there are three ways to affect paragraph styles:  1) 
>Paragraph designer while in Body view mode, 2) Paragraph designer while 
>viewing Master and Reference Pages, and 3) the Formatting Bar.

Not really. Paragraph styles are defined in the Paragraph Designer and are 
global to a document. Similarly, character styles are designed in the Character 
Designer, and table styles in the Table Designer. You get the idea. These are 
independent of whether you are viewing body, master or reference pages.

As others have said, don't use the formatting bar. It is heap bad juju, and 
only there to stop folks who are used to work feeling uncomfortable ;-)

>Compounding my confusion is the fact that there are character and paragraph 
>styles on the Reference pages that aren't in the Character catalog and 
>Paragraph catalogs.

Not really. The stuff on the reference pages of a black FrameMaker document is 
not paragraph and character style definitions, which are global to a document. 
The reference pages contain a rag-bag of special-purpose stuff, the meanings of 
which will become clearer as you progress with FrameMaker.

If you have inherited a FrameMaker document/template, it is not impossible that 
someone has added a reference page that lists the paragraph and character 
styles and their definitions and/or purposes, but these would only be 
documentation, not the actual definitions. It's hard to be clear on this 
without seeing your document.

>When working on a paragraph on the body pages, it seems like the Formatting 
>bar and the Paragraph designer sometimes "disagree" with each other. Trying to 
>change the  Default font style for a paragraph sometimes doesn't "take hold," 
>meaning no visible changes are made when applying the desired change.

I think this has been answered already, but always use the respective designers 
to define your styles.

>If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do I need 
>to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. If the colored text will always 
be  applied to an entire paragraph, such as a warning message, then define a 
paragraph style for it. If the color will only be required to be applied to one 
more words, define a character style.

Note that character style attributes are additive. If you wish to define a 
style that *only* applies color, use the 'Set Window to As Is' command in the 
Character Designer's Commands pop-up menu, then define just the color. This 
will ensure that the new character style will apply only the color attribute to 
the underlying text, rather than forcing/changing the font, text size and so on.

>Again, all I'm looking for, as far as I can tell, is a proper reference 
>document that explains the interaction between these tools,  a general 
>discussion of when and how they interact, and which one to use.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a proper reference document, but I suspect 
that what you are looking for is something that explains the theory and 
thinking behind the FrameMaker document design model. If you master this early 
on, you will be well set to leverage the power of FrameMaker. If either of the 
books you mention and the online help don't help you, you might find this 
article, which give an overview of creating an unstructured FrameMaker template 
from scratch, of assistance:



-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Robert Lauriston]

Here's a squeaky-clean template you could look at, might help you
understand how things are supposed to work. I cleared out all the
cruft from the master and reference pages. Even the sample files Adobe
distributes have a bunch of junk in them.

http://lauriston.com/fm10_link_to_rh9.zip

If files have been accumulating cruft for a long time, there may be
entries on the reference pages where the descriptive text no longer
maps to the paragraph tag it was once associated with.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer
 wrote:
> ... there are character and paragraph
> styles on the Reference pages that aren't in the Character catalog and
> Paragraph catalogs. ...
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Craig Ede]

You want to use defined formats for everything in FrameMaker and not format as 
you go. Starting with anything that has cruft in it is likely to give you 
remnants of formats that lie around on master pages, the various catalogs, etc. 
My take is that all beginning uses should design a template from the ground up 
to make sure they understand how all the different Framemaker containers work.


The File > Import Formats menu choice gives you a pretty good idea of what's 
important.

[cid:c37663a5-d84d-4073-81ad-3f7895b539a4]

Here's how I would arrange the container hierarchically:

Document Properties

Page Layouts (i.e. Master Pages)

Reference pages

Paragraph Tags

Character Tags

Table Tags

Cross Reference Definitions

Variable Definitions

Conditional Text Formats

Object Styles


Starting with an absolutely blank template (i.e. all of the above containers 
empty of anything that defines their character), you can set the document 
properties as you desire, create a master page, a reference page, a series of 
paragraph tags, character tags, table tags, cross reference definitions, 
variable definitions and conditional text formats to populate your template. 
You can then create another template using the same names to create another 
view of your content, which can be very different from the first view.


Doing this from scratch demonstrates the power having names for instances of 
each of the container instances.


When I create a template for anyone, I create a reference document that ticks 
through the containers. Headings are used for each container and examples of 
all the named elements within the container are described. (For example: Master 
Pages: Left, Right, First; Paragraph Tags: 1Head, 2Head, Body; Char 
tags:strong, emphasis, code, etc. etc. etc.


So think of FrameMaker as a series of containers within containers: Document, 
Page, Paragraph, CharTag, etc etc.


So much for the sky-high overview.


Craig

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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Craig Ede]

I agree with you, John. I just had a guy in charge of a company Wiki instruct 
me to put blank lines "to set off" sets of Q: and A: entries in an FAQ section. 
It really rubbed me the wrong way. Also, I should "turn the Q:s blue" to set 
them off.


Well, it's a wiki. It's not supposed to be anything but format as you go, I 
guess. I suggested we might do something with CSS to make the application of 
such rules a general thing based on attributes.


Craig



From: Framers  on 
behalf of john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 12:36 PM
To: Robert Lauriston; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

>> First rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format 
>> your text.
>> Second rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format 
>> your text.

I won't let a single Hard Return in my docs that isn't a Line End and no 
keyboard formatting.


-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+john.x.posada=us.hsbc@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:31 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

First rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format your 
text.

Second rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format your 
text.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer 
 wrote:
> If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do
> I need to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?

Depends on whether you want to apply the color to part of a paragraph or the 
whole paragraph.

Generally speaking, you don't want to be creating tags on the fly. You want to 
design a template with the minimum number of tags.
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Robert Lauriston]

I probably wouldn't create a Blue format. I'd name a format after a
particular function and the color would be one of the attributes (e.g. the
Link tag below). A template I created at one job in the FM7 era had only
these character tags:

   - Default: Reverts the selected text to the default character settings
   for the paragraph tag.
   - Bold: Apply this character tag rather than using Ctrl-B.
   - CodeFont: Use for file names and commands in running text. (For
   multi-line listings, use the Code paragraph tag.) Apply this character tag
   rather than formatting the text as Courier.
   - Italic: Apply this character tag rather than using Ctrl-I.
   - Link: This is used only in cross-reference formats. It be used in text
   only for hyperlinks in in text insets (since due to the PDF export bug we
   can't use cross-references).
   - Symbol: The tag should generally be avoided since FrameMaker's
   capabilities are so limited. If you must use it, check all output formats
   to make sure it's coming out correctly.
   - ~CautionColor, ~NoteColor, ~TipColor: used by paragraph tags, do not
   apply directly.


On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Roger Shuttleworth 
wrote:

> ... Create a paragraph format or a character format for *every* type of
> text appearance that will exist in your document. If some of your text
> within a paragraph will be blue, create a Blue character format. If whole
> paragraphs will be blue, create a Blue para format (you define the colour
> on the Font tab of the Para Designer). ...
>
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Roger Shuttleworth]

Agreed. I never - ever - use the formatting bar. If you do use it you 
create what is known as an "override", i.e. you have altered one or more 
of the characteristics of the text vis-a-vis its paragraph format. That 
is a Bad Thing.


Some basic rules:

1. Create a paragraph format or a character format for *every* type of 
text appearance that will exist in your document. If some of your text 
within a paragraph will be blue, create a Blue character format. If 
whole paragraphs will be blue, create a Blue para format (you define the 
colour on the Font tab of the Para Designer).


2. Apply the para/character formats assiduously within your text.

3. Never use the formatting bar (I mentioned that already).

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask loads more questions, off-list if you 
prefer.


Roger


On 29/11/2016 18:31, Robert Lauriston wrote:

First rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to
format your text.

Second rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to
format your text.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer
 wrote:

If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do I need
to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?

Depends on whether you want to apply the color to part of a paragraph
or the whole paragraph.

Generally speaking, you don't want to be creating tags on the fly. You
want to design a template with the minimum number of tags.
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[john . x . posada]

>> First rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format 
>> your text.
>> Second rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format 
>> your text.

I won't let a single Hard Return in my docs that isn't a Line End and no 
keyboard formatting. 


-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+john.x.posada=us.hsbc@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:31 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

First rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format your 
text.

Second rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to format your 
text.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer 
 wrote:
> If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do 
> I need to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?

Depends on whether you want to apply the color to part of a paragraph or the 
whole paragraph.

Generally speaking, you don't want to be creating tags on the fly. You want to 
design a template with the minimum number of tags.
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Robert Lauriston]

First rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to
format your text.

Second rule of FrameMaker: use only paragraph and character tags to
format your text.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer
 wrote:
> If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do I need
> to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?

Depends on whether you want to apply the color to part of a paragraph
or the whole paragraph.

Generally speaking, you don't want to be creating tags on the fly. You
want to design a template with the minimum number of tags.
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Writer]

I don't know where you are geographically, Dennis, but you might want to get 
some training from Front Runner (www.front-runner.com). FR is in Toronto, 
Canada, but I believe they offer online training. I'm not sure if FR can 
provide 7.2 training, but they are pretty flexible. Certainly worth checking 
out.
Nadine

  From: Peter Gold 
 To: dennis.brunnenme...@gmail.com 
Cc: FrameMaker Posting 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 12:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?
   
Hi, Dennis:

Be prepared to get a fire-hose full of replies. The list members are
generous indeed. No question is too small to ask, so don't be reluctant.
Once you get into your own "zone" of FrameMaker skill, you'll be answering
stuff for others.




   
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Re: [Framers] Who's in charge?

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Dennis:

Be prepared to get a fire-hose full of replies. The list members are
generous indeed. No question is too small to ask, so don't be reluctant.
Once you get into your own "zone" of FrameMaker skill, you'll be answering
stuff for others.

I won't go into much detail. Others probably will. I do want to mention a
few points:

* FM 7.2 is pretty old. It may be that there are some display bugs that
were fixed in newer versions. It may also be that some display bugs appear
when using it a newer Windows version than it was certified for. So, this
may address the disagreements you see in the User Interface (UI.)

* Setting paragraph properties can be confusing, especially when working
with existing formatted content, especially if that's been done
haphazardly. If a paragraph's text has been formatted directly by applying,
say, italic and blue with keyboard shortcuts or from toolbar icons, or with
a named character format, then creating and applying a named paragraph
format to that paragraph may not overrule some of the existing properties.
(Recently the term "baked in" is gaining traction to describe all kinds of
stuff. This may be one instance where it's apt.) I don't know if there's
any place where you can find orderly rules for how these somewhat
idiosyncratic conflicts resolve. Your best bet IMO would be to start by
designing a paragraph format in a new blank document, using the paragraph
designer. Even better would be to find a style guide for your document set,
if one exists, and create the named formats it specifies. The only thing
better than this would be to find a FM document set with all of these
formats and other elements already defined and with examples of each and
use them, become familiar with them, then learn to modify them to better
suit your needs.

* You can import formats from existing FM documents. You may be able to
find some useful existing FM example doc sets with a web search. If they
are created in later FM than yours, however, you'll need someone to open
them for you in a newer FM and use File > Save As > MIF (FM's Maker
Interchange Format) to create files you can open in your earlier version.
Or, you can download and use the FM trial version for 30 days, if you need
to use this MIF method.

HTH


On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer <
dennis.brunnenme...@gmail.com> wrote:

> FrameMaker 7.2, Unstructured
> Windows 7 Professional, 64-bit
> Target output: PDF only
>
> As a relatively new beginner, I hate to bother experts with this question,
> but where can I find concise information about the topics below. I have the
> original Adobe 7.0 book as well as their Classroom In A Book. Neither of
> them, as far as I can tell, address the overall concept of how these tools
> described below interact with each other. Instead, those books seem to be
> just a list of step-by-step procedures on how to accomplish tasks.
>
> Oh, and I also have The Complete Reference / FrameMaker 7 book by Sarah
> O'Keefe and Sheila Loring. It's size alone is intimidating, but maybe the
> information I need is somewhere in there.
>
> It seems to me that there are three ways to affect paragraph styles:  1)
> Paragraph designer while in Body view mode, 2) Paragraph designer while
> viewing Master and Reference Pages, and 3) the Formatting Bar.
>
> Compounding my confusion is the fact that there are character and
> paragraph styles on the Reference pages that aren't in the Character
> catalog and Paragraph catalogs.
>
> When working on a paragraph on the body pages, it seems like the
> Formatting bar and the Paragraph designer sometimes "disagree" with each
> other. Trying to change the  Default font style for a paragraph sometimes
> doesn't "take hold," meaning no visible changes are made when applying the
> desired change.
>
> If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do I
> need to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?
>
> Again, all I'm looking for, as far as I can tell, is a proper reference
> document that explains the interaction between these tools,  a general
> discussion of when and how they interact, and which one to use.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dennis...
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[Framers] Who's in charge?

[Dennis Brunnenmeyer]

FrameMaker 7.2, Unstructured
Windows 7 Professional, 64-bit
Target output: PDF only

As a relatively new beginner, I hate to bother experts with this 
question, but where can I find concise information about the topics 
below. I have the original Adobe 7.0 book as well as their Classroom In 
A Book. Neither of them, as far as I can tell, address the overall 
concept of how these tools described below interact with each other. 
Instead, those books seem to be just a list of step-by-step procedures 
on how to accomplish tasks.


Oh, and I also have The Complete Reference / FrameMaker 7 book by Sarah 
O'Keefe and Sheila Loring. It's size alone is intimidating, but maybe 
the information I need is somewhere in there.


It seems to me that there are three ways to affect paragraph styles:  1) 
Paragraph designer while in Body view mode, 2) Paragraph designer while 
viewing Master and Reference Pages, and 3) the Formatting Bar.


Compounding my confusion is the fact that there are character and 
paragraph styles on the Reference pages that aren't in the Character 
catalog and Paragraph catalogs.


When working on a paragraph on the body pages, it seems like the 
Formatting bar and the Paragraph designer sometimes "disagree" with each 
other. Trying to change the  Default font style for a paragraph 
sometimes doesn't "take hold," meaning no visible changes are made when 
applying the desired change.


If I want to change the color of the text in a paragraph designer, do I 
need to create a new character format or a new paragraph format?


Again, all I'm looking for, as far as I can tell, is a proper reference 
document that explains the interaction between these tools,  a general 
discussion of when and how they interact, and which one to use.


Thanks.

Dennis...
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