Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

​Hi, Stefan:

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Again, with all due respect, your short history with FrameMaker puts you at
a disadvantage, because, over the decades, many of the detailed recent
feature enhancements, additions, and bug-fixes you noted, have been kicked
to the "for future action" lists many times over.

We do appreciate the effort it's taken all the team members to achieve
these improvements. We've never doubted the sincere dedication that the
FrameMaker developers and teammates bring to the challenges of moving FM
forward.

However, the over-arching reality is that the decision-makers who apportion
the bare-subsistence budget to development are in control, so despite the
good intentions and dedication of the development team to meet the
competitive needs and customer/user requirements and requests, they
continue to exist in the same borderline-survival mode.

One of the earliest and perennially-reappearing feature-enhancement
requests that I can remember was the ability to resize the text size of
menu commands, with the corollary request to be able to resize dialog boxes
and their contents. Over the years some smart folks figured out
operating-system tweaks and hacks that offered some help here, but the
difficulty of bringing the feature into the product indicates the flawed
architecture.

I can't remember how many years of requests it took until FM finally got a
multiple-Undo history feature. The mantra excuse from early-on was
"re-engineering to support that feature takes resources and time we do not
have. Sorry. Maybe next release. Thanks for your request." I built a kludgy
substitute with a keystroke-recording utility in the early days, just to
have a tool for my needs.

In 1994, I joined an independent Sun Computer reseller as their FrameMaker
trainer. Their customer names included nearly all the major high-tech
companies in Silicon Valley. (Oh, where have they gone? We turn our lonely
eyes...) They had just introduced an add-on that gave FM tables the ability
to perform like spreadsheets. It became successful, so they tried to
interest Frame Technology in licensing it. However, just then, Adobe bought
FM, and they turned it down, because "we have plans to build that into a
future release." That never happened. Maybe it was the scarcity of
resources? Hm... Some years later, I learned from the CEO of my company,
that he'd thought of it one day, and gave it to a couple of programmers who
built it in a few days. It worked, solved a user need, sold well, had
value, and then became a part of history, because they were expecting Adobe
to make it and pre-empt their opportunity.

What's really surprising and ennobling about FM, is how much the original
designers and developers got right about it - from the earliest releases,
FM reliably did so much of what enterprise-scale technical authors needed.
What's disappointing has been how hard it's been to improve the process and
underlying engineering to efficiently evolve it.

​Thanks for inviting participation in the conversation. However, realize
that every time a user encounters a persistent sore spot in their workflow,
all the warm fuzzies and reassurances lose their value.​

​Again, just my opinions.
​


On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Stefan Gentz  wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
>
>
> thanks for your honest feedback! Please allow me to answer a little bit
> more comprehensive (sorry, if it became a little bit long …)
>
>
>
> > There's always been the sense in replies to user requests, that users
> > who ask for product improvements and enhancements are whiners
> > who aren't satisfied with an already-great product.
>
>
>
> I cannot comment on the past as I joined Adobe just a little bit more than
> a year ago (and personally never made this experience), but I can say for
> sure that not a single one of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team as
> it is today has in any way an attitude like this. In the contrary. We are
> all very passionate about the product, actively listen to the users and
> take every feedback and suggestion very seriously. I know this sounds very
> much like marketing blah-blah, but that’s exactly how it is. Since I
> started at Adobe I had virtually hundreds of one on one conversations on
> conferences around the world actively collecting feedback, channeling it
> and bringing it into the system. A huge amount of this went into the 2017
> release.
>
>
>
> > The countless technical authors and communicators who have
>
> > used FrameMaker to create this priceless collection of information
>
> > deserve respect when they suggest and request improvements in
> > the product they rely upon daily and know intimately.
>
>
>
> Absolutely! I could not agree more on this. And you can be sure that
> everyone in the Adobe TechComm team has exactly this attitude and
> appreciation of the community. Again, I cannot comment on the past, but
> both the product management and myself listen very carefully to all the
> 

Re: [Framers] Anyone have any spiffy FM resume templates?

[Writer]

So...like...does this mean there's going to be lots of vacancies soon? =D

Nadine

  From: FrameUsers Admin 
 To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
 
 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 12:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [Framers] Anyone have any spiffy FM resume templates?
   
Frameusers, I've added Lin SIms' resume template to the 
FrameUsers.com site. You can find it here:
http://www.frameusers.com/tasks/

While you are there, look around the site. I believe you can find 
just about everything you'll need for Frame-related work. If you 
can't, please let me know off-list and we'll figure out how to add it 
to the site.

Carol Elkins
List Mom

At 11:52 AM 3/15/2017, you wrote:
>I've put in a request to Carol to see if she'd be willing to host it 
>on the Framers site. In all honesty, all I really did was take the 
>two formats that Adobe created and melded them together to suit my tastes.

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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Klaus Daube]

On 16 Mar 2017 at 23:40, Stefan Gentz wrote:

> But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no time
> left to take this into consideration. 

Sorry Stefan, to dispute this: Maybe people just considered my early lamento 
(in the 
beta forum) on this subject loud enough to be recognised by Adobe and did not 
see an 
immediate requirement to blow into the same horn... But then as they 
discvovered the 
disadvantages of the November-look (as I call it) the needed to react.

Klaus Daube
~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

Good to know. Lots of us out here don't have those fancy new high-rez
screens yet, so we can't take advantage of the work you've done. Being able
to at least select the icon size would at least help!

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Stefan Gentz  wrote:

> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> currently the size of the icons is based on the Windows display scaling
> and FrameMaker automatically selects one of the three sizes based on the
> system scaling.
>
>
>
> We are already discussing to make icon size a user-based preference.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>
> [image: Adobe]   [image: Adobe TCS Icon]
>   [image:
> Adobe FrameMaker Icon]   
> [image:
> Adobe RoboHelp Icon]   [image:
> Adobe Captivate Icon]   [image:
> Adobe Acrobat Icon] 
>
> Connect with us:
>
> [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg]
> Facebook  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg] Twitter
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/LinkedIn.jpg] LinkedIn
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg] YouTube
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.jpg] Our Blog
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg] Adobe TCS
> User Forum
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 18:08
> *To:* Stefan Gentz 
> *Cc:* Frame Users 
> *Subject:* Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling to menu icons
>
>
>
> You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm
> wondering is, is it possible to select a *preferred* size instead of the
> one served up by default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be
> color, but it'll be easier for those of us with eye issues to see.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz  wrote:
>
> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> > OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!
>
>
>
> > Let me see if I understand now.
>
> > Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that
>
> > they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to
>
> > create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it
> wanted
>
> > to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the
> corporate
>
> > standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding
> features
>
> > and fixing bugs.
>
>
>
> Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have
> colored icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line
> with other Adobe products.
>
>
>
> > If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
> allow
>
> > users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones
> that
>
> > would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get
> weird?
>
>
>
> Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” …
> There is no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from
> 2015 do not work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are
> not compatible with high-dpi screens.
>
>
>
> In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based”
> and allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to
> provide a full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and
> all of them in three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not
> sure, if there would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …
>
>
>
> We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did
> hear you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a
> lot of long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old
> (many of them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid
> and important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to
> modernize FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly,
> we will have to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored
> icons, or changes requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF
> Engine, finally fixing CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries,
> more advanced search 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi Lin,

currently the size of the icons is based on the Windows display scaling and 
FrameMaker automatically selects one of the three sizes based on the system 
scaling.

We are already discussing to make icon size a user-based preference.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
   [Adobe 
FrameMaker Icon]    [Adobe 
RoboHelp Icon]    [Adobe Captivate 
Icon]    [Adobe Acrobat Icon] 

Connect with us:
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Blog | 
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Forum


From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 18:08
To: Stefan Gentz 
Cc: Frame Users 
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm wondering 
is, is it possible to select a preferred size instead of the one served up by 
default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be color, but it'll be easier 
for those of us with eye issues to see.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz 
> wrote:
Hi Lin,

> OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I 
> apologize.

No need to apologize ☺ I appreciate the open discussion!

> Let me see if I understand now.
> Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so 
> that
> they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the resources 
> to
> create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it 
> wanted
> to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the corporate
> standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding features
> and fixing bugs.

Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have colored 
icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line with other 
Adobe products.

> If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to allow
> users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones that
> would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get weird?

Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” … There is 
no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from 2015 do not 
work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are not compatible 
with high-dpi screens.

In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based” and 
allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to provide a 
full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and all of them in 
three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not sure, if there 
would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …

We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did hear 
you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a lot of 
long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old (many of 
them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid and 
important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to modernize 
FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly, we will have 
to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored icons, or changes 
requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF Engine, finally fixing 
CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries, more advanced search & 
replace functionalities … to call out just a few requests.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
   [Adobe 
FrameMaker Icon]    [Adobe 
RoboHelp Icon]    [Adobe Captivate 
Icon]    [Adobe Acrobat Icon] 

Connect with us:

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

, c, d
> that we are asking for since xy?
>
>
> But don't get me wrong now, please. As I said, we appreciate the feedback
> from the frameusers community. And we heard you loud and clear. And as I
> said we will discuss it internally over the next weeks and explore what we
> can do to make you as our core group of users happy :-)
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm
wondering is, is it possible to select a *preferred* size instead of the
one served up by default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be
color, but it'll be easier for those of us with eye issues to see.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz  wrote:

> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> > OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!
>
>
>
> > Let me see if I understand now.
>
> > Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that
>
> > they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to
>
> > create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it
> wanted
>
> > to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the
> corporate
>
> > standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding
> features
>
> > and fixing bugs.
>
>
>
> Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have
> colored icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line
> with other Adobe products.
>
>
>
> > If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
> allow
>
> > users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones
> that
>
> > would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get
> weird?
>
>
>
> Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” …
> There is no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from
> 2015 do not work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are
> not compatible with high-dpi screens.
>
>
>
> In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based”
> and allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to
> provide a full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and
> all of them in three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not
> sure, if there would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …
>
>
>
> We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did
> hear you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a
> lot of long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old
> (many of them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid
> and important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to
> modernize FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly,
> we will have to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored
> icons, or changes requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF
> Engine, finally fixing CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries,
> more advanced search & replace functionalities … to call out just a few
> requests.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>
> [image: Adobe]   [image: Adobe TCS Icon]
>   [image:
> Adobe FrameMaker Icon]   
> [image:
> Adobe RoboHelp Icon]   [image:
> Adobe Captivate Icon]   [image:
> Adobe Acrobat Icon] 
>
> Connect with us:
>
> [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg]
> Facebook  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg] Twitter
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/LinkedIn.jpg] LinkedIn
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg] YouTube
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.jpg] Our Blog
>  | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg] Adobe TCS
> User Forum
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 14:05
> *To:* Stefan Gentz ; Frame Users <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling to menu icons
>
>
>
> OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
> Let me see if I understand now.
>
> Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor"
> standard if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided
> to go with the corporate standard interface so that those 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi Lin,

> OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I 
> apologize.

No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!

> Let me see if I understand now.
> Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so 
> that
> they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the resources 
> to
> create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it 
> wanted
> to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the corporate
> standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding features
> and fixing bugs.

Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have colored 
icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line with other 
Adobe products.

> If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to allow
> users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones that
> would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get weird?

Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” … There is 
no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from 2015 do not 
work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are not compatible 
with high-dpi screens.

In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based” and 
allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to provide a 
full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and all of them in 
three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not sure, if there 
would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …

We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did hear 
you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a lot of 
long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old (many of 
them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid and 
important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to modernize 
FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly, we will have 
to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored icons, or changes 
requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF Engine, finally fixing 
CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries, more advanced search & 
replace functionalities … to call out just a few requests.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
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From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 14:05
To: Stefan Gentz ; Frame Users 
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I 
apologize.
Let me see if I understand now.
Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so 
that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the 
resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard 
if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with 
the corporate standard interface so that those resources could be applied to 
adding features and fixing bugs.
Do I have it now?
If so, I'm going to have to heave a heavy sigh of disappointment, because I 
can't really argue with the decision. I'd put bug fixing at the top of the list 
of priorities myself. I'm just sorry I don't currently have the opportunity to 
take advantage of the high resolution icons. (My home laptop is 6 years old, 
but I got a top of the line gaming rig so it isn't practical or necessary to 
replace it yet.)
If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to allow 
users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones that 

Re: [Framers] OT Followup: Stopping Adobe's auto install of Reader DC

[Frank Stearns]

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Stefan Gentz wrote:


Hi Frank,

I'd like to follow up with you on this. Could you please get in 
touch with me so that we can investigate this together?


Hi Stefan --

Thanks for your interest.

So here's the maddening deal. My long-standing pratice with ALL 
"updates" -- whether OS or app -- is to select the "ask before 
installing updates" option. As far as I know, this is what had been 
done with acrobat.


In my recent experience, the Adobe Reader updater is ignoring this 
setting.


A web search revealed that many other folks have had the same issue -- 
unwanted updates from Reader XI to DC, but a clue was given regarding 
the system task list.


So I found the Adobe Reader updater task in the task list for the 
system. Its "charter" was to update Reader at each login. Gawk!! 
That's the first major sin, as I see it -- don't be putting tasks like 
that on my system without my approval.


But for those following this thread, it got to be even *more* of a 
Zombie horror movie.


I thought I'd tamed the unwanted updates by deleting this task. But a 
few days later, DC had installed itself yet again and a NEW task had 
been entered into the task list -- same as before; update on login.


So then I went to "services" and KILLED the Adobe Reader updater 
there. This is too bad, because I'd like to be informed of new 
versions. (Maybe a Reader DC 2.0 would address my dislikes of the 
first version.) But inform me only, do not force me to a new upgrade.


This is by far and away the "rudest" behavior I've ever seen from an 
updater -- all these things happening behind the scenes with ZERO 
notification of the user.


(And, you'd think after 10 or 11 removals of Reader DC and a reinstall 
of Reader XI each time that something or somebody would get a clue and 
STOP installing DC, uninvited, on this system.)


It's not lost on me that Reader is "free"; I appreciate that. But if a 
company ever wants to entice people into buying the full suite of some 
product, they won't treat users like this. Such actions inspire 
*exactly* the opposite interest from me and no doubt others.


Thanks again for listening, and thanks in advance for any "advice" you 
can pass along to management.


Frank

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FrameMaker 10-15 HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com  1-435-275-8981  fsatools.com



Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
[Adobe]  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
   [Adobe FrameMaker Icon] 
   [Adobe RoboHelp Icon] 
   [Adobe Captivate Icon] 
   [Adobe Acrobat Icon] 

Connect with us:
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Forum


On 7 Mar 2017, at 22:19, Frank Stearns 
> wrote:

I'm cautiously optimistic that this particular zombie beast has finally been 
destroyed.

The unwanted install of DC happened twice more since my last post, and in a rage I went 
to vent at Adobe support. Of course, one is not allowed to contact them for such a lowly 
product (or not having parted with cash earlier), but a few posts in the 
"forums" section led me to look at the windows Task scheduler. Interesting 
critter.

Sure enough, our delightful friends had entered a task to update Reader at EVERY login. 
I'm not familiar with the nuts and bolts of the scheduler, but apparently there are no 
settings to notify the user, the task "just happens". (Or, if such 
notifications are possible, they were certainly disabled for this task.)

With MUCH GLEE, I found the command to DELETE this task, and happily did so. I 
confirmed that the Reader Update task is no longer in the task list for this 
system.

So, we'll see just how much of a horror movie is rolling here, and whether or 
not I'm updated to DC again. If so, I won't need to email; you'll *hear* me 
scream from thousands of miles away.

A note to Adobe if you're listening: please don't do things like this. Such 
actions only alienate people.

Frank
Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FrameMaker 10-15 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Frank Stearns]

There's perhaps an easy solution to this that as far as I know has not 
been mentioned.


Adobe could take a lesson from Avid's "Protools" product, arguably 
the recording industry standard for high-end, high-track count audio 
recording and mixing (and these days you can even toss in video 
clips).


There is a HUGE amount of information presented on the Protools 
desktop, much of it real-time. To run it well takes a minimum of two 
large-format monitors (I use three). Waveforms, channel strips, 
processing plug-ins, input/output matrices, level meters, et al -- 
lots of stuff to look at, and much of it in motion.


So, of course, color is an important element in helping the user 
manage all these visual elements and not create chaos. (They've done a 
masterful job by the way; you're not even aware how good it is or just 
how much information you can take in until you're forced to use some 
other tool that's not as good.)


But here's the brilliant addition that came in a few years ago. The 
color control panel (where the user can assign colors to various 
things) now includes variable brightness and saturation controls. You 
can make color items cartoonishly saturated, or take them all the way 
down to monochrome -- and **every point between**.


This could likely be done with the FM icons and thus please everybody.

And, I'd even suggest an enhancement that I wish Avid would look into. 
Give us the ability to create "color groups" within the UI (rather 
than just one overall group). Then, to each group, let us assign 
various screen elements or groups of elements as we please so that we 
can control the visuals of each group independently of other visual 
groups.


Within the panel for each group might be color assignment options, but 
most importantly would be those variable saturation and brightness 
controls. We could set what we want for the entire thing. Want dim 
icons but bright pods? Fine. Want the opposite? That's fine too. Want 
the whole thing bright or dim, saturated or sepia? You got it.


Clean, simple, and extremely user-eye friendly.

Frank Stearns

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FrameMaker 10-15 HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com  1-435-275-8981  fsatools.com
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Re: [Framers] Anyone have any spiffy FM resume templates?

[FrameUsers Admin]

Frameusers, I've added Lin SIms' resume template to the 
FrameUsers.com site. You can find it here:

http://www.frameusers.com/tasks/

While you are there, look around the site. I believe you can find 
just about everything you'll need for Frame-related work. If you 
can't, please let me know off-list and we'll figure out how to add it 
to the site.


Carol Elkins
List Mom

At 11:52 AM 3/15/2017, you wrote:
I've put in a request to Carol to see if she'd be willing to host it 
on the Framers site. In all honesty, all I really did was take the 
two formats that Adobe created and melded them together to suit my tastes.


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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

​With all due respect, Stefan:

You're pointing out Adobe's longest-running lame excuse for denying
development resources to FrameMaker. Other Adobe products adjusted to
high-resolution screens long ago.

There's always been the sense in replies to user requests, that users who
ask for product improvements and enhancements are whiners who aren't
satisfied with an already-great product.

One of the fundamental issues that have crippled FM development, going back
to the 1990s is it's original engineering architecture. Over the years,
it's been patched in many truly genius ways, to be able to provide more and
newer features. However, the more complicated the patchwork has become, the
more difficult it has become to evolve.

When InDesign was introduced, one of its claims was that the engineering
model - a core engine that hosts plug-in and add-on modules for
independently-designed features- would make it simpler to maintain and
evolve. Even with this more-advanced engineering concept and design,
software development demands resources to move ahead in a timely way to
remain competitive, and even to leap ahead of competitors. It's a hope; the
reality is that product advancement is slow, demanding, and expensive.

Even with the Creative Suite engineering model - applications that share
common user interface appearances, some common features and operations, and
some underlying engineering - evolving the CS products remains demanding
and difficult.

Over the years, ID's book-publishing features have gone from non-existent
to nearly-equal to FM's book features. ID's electronic-publishing features
have evolved greatly because of intense competition.

The point is that, even with a sufficient development budget, advancing
ID's more-flexible engineering model, takes resources, and takes time.

Adobe's long-time resistance to re-engineering FM's underlying technology,
so it can evolve more efficiently, is more than disappointing. Repeating
the same old "we don't have the resources to honor these requests" really
means "we don't have the will to invest any more than the minimum in
development." It really means "we really don't believe in the product.
We're amazed that it's survived this long. We're willing to keep it alive
during its expected decline."

I participated in FrameMaker, InDesign, and Acrobat pre-release programs
for many years. These industry-leading tools have helped form and change
the technical-communications and publishing industries.

Early-on, before Adobe bought Frame Technology, FrameMaker running on UNIX,
was adopted by CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, for
their documentation. These are the folks whose work led to the discovery of
the Higgs Boson, one of the universe's fundamental particles. Over the
decades, thousands of world-class corporations, research and educational
institutions, and governmentally-regulated industries have relied on
FrameMaker for creating and maintaining the information repositories they
develop and exchange across the world community.

The countless technical authors and communicators who have used FrameMaker
to create this priceless collection of information deserve respect when
they suggest and request improvements in the product they rely upon daily
and know intimately.

Perhaps it's time, within Adobe, to give FM the world-class recognition its
earned over the decades, give it the development budget it deserves, and
retire the obsolete engineering model, as well as the obsolete lame excuse.

One reality to consider is that, if there are no compelling features in the
new release, Adobe's making a good case for customers not to upgrade. Why
pay more and get less? It's a downward spiral: Lost sales mean less revenue
which means less money for future development.

​Just my opinion.​

Lin Sims 
8:04 AM (39 minutes ago)
to Stefan, Frame
OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
apologize.

Let me see if I understand now.

Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so
that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor"
standard if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided
to go with the corporate standard interface so that those resources could
be applied to adding features and fixing bugs.

Do I have it now?

If so, I'm going to have to heave a heavy sigh of disappointment, because I
can't really argue with the decision. I'd put bug fixing at the top of the
list of priorities myself. I'm just sorry I don't currently have the
opportunity to take advantage of the high resolution icons. (My home laptop
is 6 years old, but I got a top of the line gaming rig so it isn't
practical or necessary to replace it yet.)

If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
allow users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the
ones that 

Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[lklane64]

Thanks for the reply Lin.  I was wanting the second option where I can add a 
PDF to a book file.  I wish that FM could do that. 
 Thanks for looking into it.Laura

 Original message From: Lin Sims  Date: 
3/17/17  8:47 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: "An email list for people using Adobe 
FrameMaker software."  Subject: Re: [Framers] 
PDFs in a FM book file 
Laura,

Not entirely certain what you're asking here. If you mean, can a PDF file
be imported into a FM file, the answer is yes, but it comes in as a graphic
and can only be imported one page at a time.

If you mean, add a PDF file as a file/chapter in a book, then the answer is
no. I just tried, and FM responded this was not a recognizable format.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 9:35 AM, lklane64  wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a FM
> book file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even recommended?
> Thanks in advance,Laura
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Re: [Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[Lin Sims]

Laura,

Not entirely certain what you're asking here. If you mean, can a PDF file
be imported into a FM file, the answer is yes, but it comes in as a graphic
and can only be imported one page at a time.

If you mean, add a PDF file as a file/chapter in a book, then the answer is
no. I just tried, and FM responded this was not a recognizable format.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 9:35 AM, lklane64  wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a FM
> book file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even recommended?
> Thanks in advance,Laura
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[Framers] PDFs in a FM book file

[lklane64]

I was wondering if anyone answered the question about adding PDFs to a FM book 
file.  Does anyone know if this is possible or even recommended? 
Thanks in advance,Laura
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
apologize.

Let me see if I understand now.

Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so
that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor"
standard if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided
to go with the corporate standard interface so that those resources could
be applied to adding features and fixing bugs.

Do I have it now?

If so, I'm going to have to heave a heavy sigh of disappointment, because I
can't really argue with the decision. I'd put bug fixing at the top of the
list of priorities myself. I'm just sorry I don't currently have the
opportunity to take advantage of the high resolution icons. (My home laptop
is 6 years old, but I got a top of the line gaming rig so it isn't
practical or necessary to replace it yet.)

If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
allow users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the
ones that would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just
get weird?

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Stefan Gentz  wrote:

> I understood this, Lin.
>
> That's why I wrote:
>
> We will discuss this over the next weeks internally and explore the
> possibilities to satisfy the wishes from both user groups – those who like
> the colored icons and those who prefer uni-colored icons.
>
> The change to make FrameMaker compatible with high-res / high-dpi,
> scalable screens was a very heavy, but necessary and unavoidable
> investment. And the decision for the icons was to focus on one "theme",
> based on Adobe internal requirements, extensive market research, customer
> interviews and user feedback and involved UI and UX experts.
>
>
> Also, please understand, that due to huge the amount of icons (and every
> single of them in multiple sizes) providing both uni-colored and
> multi-colored would have been a substantial effort. Due to the changes in
> the UI technology all icons had to be created from the scratch.
>
> And after all we need to carefully balance between "cosmetic" dicersity
> and other all the other important wishes and requirements from the
> community.
>
>
> We all know how it is: When we invest now in colored icons because 33
> users have voted on a bug report that it is important for them, thousands
> of other users will come and say: What the heck, why are you wasting your
> efforts on the color of icons instead of bringing us feature a, b, c, d
> that we are asking for since xy?
>
>
> But don't get me wrong now, please. As I said, we appreciate the feedback
> from the frameusers community. And we heard you loud and clear. And as I
> said we will discuss it internally over the next weeks and explore what we
> can do to make you as our core group of users happy :-)
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
>
> [image: Adobe]   [image: Adobe TCS Icon]
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>
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> 
>
>
>
> On 17 Mar 2017, at 01:26, Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> FrameMaker 2015 provided the OPTION to use either unicolor or colored icons
> in the menu bar, and also to scale the menu bar icons larger. FrameMaker
> 2017 doesn't have the option available anymore.
>
> I don't understand why providing that as an OPTION was taken away, since
> that allowed those who like color or larger scale icons in the
> menu/toolbars to have them, and those who prefer to have them look like the
> interface in other Adobe products to have that.
>
> I don't think anyone here is asking that the menu/toolbar interface be all
> one way or all the other. We're asking that both ways be available, as they
> were in FM2015,