Re: [Framers] Quality of vector graphics created in FrameMaker is bad in CMYK PDF output
At 14:36 -0500 21/8/21, Mike Wickham wrote: >It has been a long time, so I'm not positive that I'm remembering this >correctly, but I recall that issue having something to do with either using >EMF or WMF files-- that it was a limitation of the file type. Extraordinary to see this coming around again after all these years. I first encountered it in EMF files generated by Visio more than a decade ago: looked fine on screen in Visio, but ghastly in export file. (It wasn't FrameMaker's fault that time, but the export 'filters' in Visio.) > I also seem to remember some issues related to CMYK where, if graphics were > not EPS files, they would be channeled through Windows GDI and come out as > RGB (and maybe processed into EMF or WMF along the way?) Quite likely, but I cannot comment as I worked on Mac. > Anyway, the solution for me, at the time, was merely to always use EPS > graphics in my documents, if I ever wanted correct CMYK output. Seconded. > Again, it has been a while since I worked with FM (FM 10). So forgive me if > I'm not remembering this quite right. And I realize that FM support for CMYK > may have changed since then. Also seconded :-) More power to The Group! -- Steve ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Quality of vector graphics created in FrameMaker is bad in CMYK PDF output
It has been a long time, so I'm not positive that I'm remembering this correctly, but I recall that issue having something to do with either using EMF or WMF files-- that it was a limitation of the file type. I also seem to remember some issues related to CMYK where, if graphics were not EPS files, they would be channeled through Windows GDI and come out as RGB (and maybe processed into EMF or WMF along the way?) Anyway, the solution for me, at the time, was merely to always use EPS graphics in my documents, if I ever wanted correct CMYK output. Again, it has been a while since I worked with FM (FM 10). So forgive me if I'm not remembering this quite right. And I realize that FM support for CMYK may have changed since then. Mike Wickham On 8/19/2021 2:17 AM, Klaus Daube wrote: Graphical elements containing curves or circles, created with the corresponding FrameMaker tools, are not output to PDF as bezier curves. Instead there are very rough and segmented lines only approximating the original curves or circles. ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer.
Some Framers are considering alternate applications, so compatibility information and usability comparisons are useful. As to possibly-embedded characters affecting line endings and similar behavior, the InDesign option to hide/reveal hidden characters can help. On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 8:54 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: > I just realized that I am wasting time for you all with an > InDesign-related thread in a FrameMaker forum. > > Sorry about that! ☹ > > So ... moving on ... > > Z > > -Original Message- > From: Framers > On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:49 PM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. < > framers@lists.frameusers.com> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM > 10 on a new computer. > > Robert, my son checked and could not find an Export or Save As capability > for RTF in InDesign. Do you, or anyone else, know if this is possible? > > Peter, the readback of the IDML back into InDesign was fine! My son noted > that the display looked like the original INDD file. > > FWIW, I also tried opening the PDF (from InDesign) into Word and > discovered some of the same errors (for example, carriage returns in wrong > places in the text). The only thing I have not tried yet is to output Word > or RTF format from Acrobat Pro ... hmmm. > > It is possible that our tech writer (no longer with us, unfortunately) who > did the InDesign work for this document had extra carrier returns in there > - which do not "show" in the PDF or within InDesign, but are present when > the PDF (into Word) and IDML (into Affinity and Designer Pro) are imported! > > Since I do not have an InDesign license, I cannot verify this myself ... > may download a trial to check things out myself, but I am not familiar with > InDesign, so this may be slow ... > > Z > > -Original Message- > From: Framers > On Behalf Of Peter Gold > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 7:57 PM > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. < > framers@lists.frameusers.com> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM > 10 on a new computer. > > Hi, Robert! > > For whatever reasons, I never needed or wanted to go to Github, until > now!!! Egad! > > Now that I’ve seen this, I’m not going to wonder about it. I am sure I’m > not going down this rabbit hole. It reminds me of the scene in the Tom > Sawyer movie I saw as a kid, when the string ran out and the candle died, > and I was sure if I were with Tom and Becky, I'd never get back outside the > cave. ;) > > But, this peek answers some of my questions about the problems being > discussed here. > > The real issues, IMO, is which FrameMaker document properties an author > expects to preserve when converting to another application, and whether the > goal is to return the transformed and modified document perfectly > re-interpreted to FM from the foreign application. Basically, two different > universes need to be preserved - text and objects. Each application > describes text and object properties with different languages and > structures. And, just as in human languages, some ideas don't translate > directly. Over FM's lifetime, some later releases had problems supporting > structures from earlier ones. If this stuff were easy, it wouldn't have > taken so long for some seemingly-simple feature requests to have been > honored. > > So, in this branch of the thread, I wonder if converting a document to a > competing layout application preserves layout features, does FM or ID text > that's copied and pasted into the converted layout survive well, or is it > also garbled as described? Does RTF work better or worse? Remember that > InDesign has one of the most sophisticated text composition engines. So, > perhaps the competitors don't compute text properties as well, or they lack > some comparable computed properties. > > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 4:22 PM Robert Lauriston > wrote: > > > Did you try exporting from InDesign as RTF? > > > > Even if they're not using the same library, such as > https://github.com/jorisros/IDMLlib , other applications will inevitably > have trouble reading IDM if they can't do everything that InDesign can. > > > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 2:12 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain > > wrote: > > > > > > A last update. > > > > > > Reading the IDML back into InDesign worked fine - looked like the > original! > > > > > > So, both these other tools have some limitations importing IDML. > > > > > > Although Affinity Publisher was a small amount better (not enough to > justify my getting yet another editing tool - I will get the trial lapse). > > > > > > So, they are clearly fine for *new* work, but importing IDML from > InDesign would require repair to fix some errors - which errors, as > mentioned earlier, surprisingly overlapped in the tools. > ___ > > This message is from the Framers mailing list > > Send
Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer.
Recent versions of InDesign do not support RTF export. Here's the latest list: https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/indesign/kb/supported-file-formats-indesign-cc.ht ml Ian -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: 21 August 2021 02:58 To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer. https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/kb/supported-file-formats-indesign-cs5.html #main_Export On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 6:49 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote: > > Robert, my son checked and could not find an Export or Save As capability for RTF in InDesign. Do you, or anyone else, know if this is possible? ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer.
Some of us use both, so it could be useful information. -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 9:55 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer. I just realized that I am wasting time for you all with an InDesign-related thread in a FrameMaker forum. Sorry about that! ☹ So ... moving on ... Z -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:49 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer. Robert, my son checked and could not find an Export or Save As capability for RTF in InDesign. Do you, or anyone else, know if this is possible? Peter, the readback of the IDML back into InDesign was fine! My son noted that the display looked like the original INDD file. FWIW, I also tried opening the PDF (from InDesign) into Word and discovered some of the same errors (for example, carriage returns in wrong places in the text). The only thing I have not tried yet is to output Word or RTF format from Acrobat Pro ... hmmm. It is possible that our tech writer (no longer with us, unfortunately) who did the InDesign work for this document had extra carrier returns in there - which do not "show" in the PDF or within InDesign, but are present when the PDF (into Word) and IDML (into Affinity and Designer Pro) are imported! Since I do not have an InDesign license, I cannot verify this myself ... may download a trial to check things out myself, but I am not familiar with InDesign, so this may be slow ... Z -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Peter Gold Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 7:57 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer. Hi, Robert! For whatever reasons, I never needed or wanted to go to Github, until now!!! Egad! Now that I’ve seen this, I’m not going to wonder about it. I am sure I’m not going down this rabbit hole. It reminds me of the scene in the Tom Sawyer movie I saw as a kid, when the string ran out and the candle died, and I was sure if I were with Tom and Becky, I'd never get back outside the cave. ;) But, this peek answers some of my questions about the problems being discussed here. The real issues, IMO, is which FrameMaker document properties an author expects to preserve when converting to another application, and whether the goal is to return the transformed and modified document perfectly re-interpreted to FM from the foreign application. Basically, two different universes need to be preserved - text and objects. Each application describes text and object properties with different languages and structures. And, just as in human languages, some ideas don't translate directly. Over FM's lifetime, some later releases had problems supporting structures from earlier ones. If this stuff were easy, it wouldn't have taken so long for some seemingly-simple feature requests to have been honored. So, in this branch of the thread, I wonder if converting a document to a competing layout application preserves layout features, does FM or ID text that's copied and pasted into the converted layout survive well, or is it also garbled as described? Does RTF work better or worse? Remember that InDesign has one of the most sophisticated text composition engines. So, perhaps the competitors don't compute text properties as well, or they lack some comparable computed properties. On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 4:22 PM Robert Lauriston wrote: > Did you try exporting from InDesign as RTF? > > Even if they're not using the same library, such as > https://github.com/jorisros/IDMLlib , other applications will inevitably have > trouble reading IDM if they can't do everything that InDesign can. > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 2:12 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain > wrote: > > > > A last update. > > > > Reading the IDML back into InDesign worked fine - looked like the original! > > > > So, both these other tools have some limitations importing IDML. > > > > Although Affinity Publisher was a small amount better (not enough to > > justify my getting yet another editing tool - I will get the trial lapse). > > > > So, they are clearly fine for *new* work, but importing IDML from InDesign > > would require repair to fix some errors - which errors, as mentioned > > earlier, surprisingly overlapped in the tools. ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and
