Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

Come to think of it, I also opened a bug in Tracker for this specific
issue: https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-9315


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 9:45 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> I was contacted by an Adobe developer because I participate in the beta
> testers program for FrameMaker, and I posted this as an issue on the
> discussion board.
>
> I've also added a feature request to Tracker to have a new preference
> added for saving PDFs to the directory containing the source files, because
> I f***ing hate the way the Publish pod keeps dropping stuff into a
> subdirectory of whatever the last directory you saved PDFs to was, which is
> just PANTS as far as I'm concerned. If anyone wants to vote for it, you can
> find it here: https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-9286
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 11:36 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
> wrote:
>
>> That is great, Lin. It would be good if they fix this issue!
>>
>> It is not clear where it is occurring. Although I suspect it is in
>> Acrobat Pro, since I am not generating a new file from FrameMaker - just
>> combining other PDF files containing Source Sans Pro with file size
>> reduction - each of which independently is fine.
>>
>> Z
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Framers 
>> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:09 PM
>> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
>> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>>
>> For those who may (or may not) be interested, I tried creating a PDF from
>> the same TOC file after substituting different fonts in. The PDF generated
>> from the TOCs using either Open Sans or Calibri were even WORSE than the
>> one created using Source Sans Pro. However, the one generated from a TOC
>> using ARIAL as the font generated perfectly. It must be some interaction
>> between the font and the PDF engine.
>>
>> I had a coworker try to generate a PDF from the original TOC using the
>> Source Sans Pro and he got the same result I did, so it is not just my
>> machine having the issue. An Adobe developer contact me today about this
>> and requested sample files, which I have sent. Here's hoping someone comes
>> up with a clue on what is happening and why!
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:09 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>>
>> > The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019,
>> > so yes, that's changed.
>> > Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
>> > Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
>> > This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only
>> > document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the
>> TOC.
>> >
>> > There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as
>> > the tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround.
>> > It's just that it's a long time to process viable workaround.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe
>> >> > FrameMaker
>> >> forum
>> >> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this
>> >> > thread
>> >> and
>> >> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but
>> >> > this is such an oddball occurrence ...
>> >> >
>> >> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from
>> >> > this document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked
>> >> > perfectly with
>> >> Save
>> >> > As PDF.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms
>> >> after years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause
>> >> is the body's changed. So, since the last time you were successful
>> >> with your same workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM?
>> >> Or the font? Or the internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket
>> >> science, but it is science. :)
>> >> ___
>> >>
>> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>> >>
>> >> Send messages to framers@lists

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

I was contacted by an Adobe developer because I participate in the beta
testers program for FrameMaker, and I posted this as an issue on the
discussion board.

I've also added a feature request to Tracker to have a new preference added
for saving PDFs to the directory containing the source files, because I
f***ing hate the way the Publish pod keeps dropping stuff into a
subdirectory of whatever the last directory you saved PDFs to was, which is
just PANTS as far as I'm concerned. If anyone wants to vote for it, you can
find it here: https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-9286

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 11:36 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> That is great, Lin. It would be good if they fix this issue!
>
> It is not clear where it is occurring. Although I suspect it is in Acrobat
> Pro, since I am not generating a new file from FrameMaker - just combining
> other PDF files containing Source Sans Pro with file size reduction - each
> of which independently is fine.
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:09 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> For those who may (or may not) be interested, I tried creating a PDF from
> the same TOC file after substituting different fonts in. The PDF generated
> from the TOCs using either Open Sans or Calibri were even WORSE than the
> one created using Source Sans Pro. However, the one generated from a TOC
> using ARIAL as the font generated perfectly. It must be some interaction
> between the font and the PDF engine.
>
> I had a coworker try to generate a PDF from the original TOC using the
> Source Sans Pro and he got the same result I did, so it is not just my
> machine having the issue. An Adobe developer contact me today about this
> and requested sample files, which I have sent. Here's hoping someone comes
> up with a clue on what is happening and why!
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:09 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019,
> > so yes, that's changed.
> > Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
> > Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
> > This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only
> > document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the
> TOC.
> >
> > There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as
> > the tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround.
> > It's just that it's a long time to process viable workaround.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe
> >> > FrameMaker
> >> forum
> >> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this
> >> > thread
> >> and
> >> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but
> >> > this is such an oddball occurrence ...
> >> >
> >> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from
> >> > this document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked
> >> > perfectly with
> >> Save
> >> > As PDF.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms
> >> after years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause
> >> is the body's changed. So, since the last time you were successful
> >> with your same workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM?
> >> Or the font? Or the internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket
> >> science, but it is science. :)
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >>
> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> >> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from t

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

That is great, Lin. It would be good if they fix this issue!

It is not clear where it is occurring. Although I suspect it is in Acrobat Pro, 
since I am not generating a new file from FrameMaker - just combining other PDF 
files containing Source Sans Pro with file size reduction - each of which 
independently is fine.

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:09 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

For those who may (or may not) be interested, I tried creating a PDF from the 
same TOC file after substituting different fonts in. The PDF generated from the 
TOCs using either Open Sans or Calibri were even WORSE than the one created 
using Source Sans Pro. However, the one generated from a TOC using ARIAL as the 
font generated perfectly. It must be some interaction between the font and the 
PDF engine.

I had a coworker try to generate a PDF from the original TOC using the Source 
Sans Pro and he got the same result I did, so it is not just my machine having 
the issue. An Adobe developer contact me today about this and requested sample 
files, which I have sent. Here's hoping someone comes up with a clue on what is 
happening and why!

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:09 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019, 
> so yes, that's changed.
> Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
> Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
> This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only 
> document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the TOC.
>
> There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as 
> the tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround. 
> It's just that it's a long time to process viable workaround.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>>
>> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe 
>> > FrameMaker
>> forum
>> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this 
>> > thread
>> and
>> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but 
>> > this is such an oddball occurrence ...
>> >
>> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from 
>> > this document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked 
>> > perfectly with
>> Save
>> > As PDF.
>> >
>>
>> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms 
>> after years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause 
>> is the body's changed. So, since the last time you were successful 
>> with your same workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? 
>> Or the font? Or the internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket 
>> science, but it is science. :) 
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
>> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>


--
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

Thanks for persevering on this issue, Lin. Good to hear that it's paying
off in Adobe's finally giving what seems serious attention to the kind of
seemingly-trivial problem that's really a serious flaw.

Back in the day, I spent a few weeks tracking-down a consistent product
misbehavior that gave different results when a user created a data query
that applied two sort operations before or after the other. None of the
technical experts who'd developed the product I interviewed, could explain
why the equivalent queries returned different results. I finally uncovered
notes in the SQL industry standards documents that this company's early
design statements acknowledged they would include language extensions known
to allow such non-standard behavior.

There fix in documentation was, "expect different results from such
queries." D'OH! :)

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 4:09 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> For those who may (or may not) be interested, I tried creating a PDF from
> the same TOC file after substituting different fonts in. The PDF generated
> from the TOCs using either Open Sans or Calibri were even WORSE than the
> one created using Source Sans Pro. However, the one generated from a TOC
> using ARIAL as the font generated perfectly. It must be some interaction
> between the font and the PDF engine.
>
> I had a coworker try to generate a PDF from the original TOC using the
> Source Sans Pro and he got the same result I did, so it is not just my
> machine having the issue. An Adobe developer contact me today about this
> and requested sample files, which I have sent. Here's hoping someone comes
> up with a clue on what is happening and why!
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:09 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019, so
> > yes, that's changed.
> > Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
> > Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
> > This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only
> > document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the
> TOC.
> >
> > There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as the
> > tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround. It's
> just
> > that it's a long time to process viable workaround.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker
> >> forum
> >> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread
> >> and
> >> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this
> is
> >> > such an oddball occurrence ...
> >> >
> >> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
> >> > document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with
> >> Save
> >> > As PDF.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms after
> >> years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause is the
> >> body's
> >> changed. So, since the last time you were successful with your same
> >> workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? Or the font? Or
> the
> >> internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket science, but it is science.
> :)
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >>
> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> >> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> >> Archives located at
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

For those who may (or may not) be interested, I tried creating a PDF from
the same TOC file after substituting different fonts in. The PDF generated
from the TOCs using either Open Sans or Calibri were even WORSE than the
one created using Source Sans Pro. However, the one generated from a TOC
using ARIAL as the font generated perfectly. It must be some interaction
between the font and the PDF engine.

I had a coworker try to generate a PDF from the original TOC using the
Source Sans Pro and he got the same result I did, so it is not just my
machine having the issue. An Adobe developer contact me today about this
and requested sample files, which I have sent. Here's hoping someone comes
up with a clue on what is happening and why!

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:09 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019, so
> yes, that's changed.
> Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
> Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
> This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only
> document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the TOC.
>
> There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as the
> tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround. It's just
> that it's a long time to process viable workaround.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>>
>> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker
>> forum
>> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread
>> and
>> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this is
>> > such an oddball occurrence ...
>> >
>> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
>> > document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with
>> Save
>> > As PDF.
>> >
>>
>> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms after
>> years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause is the
>> body's
>> changed. So, since the last time you were successful with your same
>> workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? Or the font? Or the
>> internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket science, but it is science. :)
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
>> Archives located at
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
>> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>


-- 
Lin Sims
___

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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019, so
yes, that's changed.
Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only
document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the TOC.

There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as the
tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround. It's just
that it's a long time to process viable workaround.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold 
wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker
> forum
> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread
> and
> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this is
> > such an oddball occurrence ...
> >
> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
> > document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with
> Save
> > As PDF.
> >
>
> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms after
> years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause is the body's
> changed. So, since the last time you were successful with your same
> workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? Or the font? Or the
> internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket science, but it is science. :)
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>


-- 
Lin Sims
___

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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker forum
> from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread and
> the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this is
> such an oddball occurrence ...
>
> The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
> document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with Save
> As PDF.
>

I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms after
years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause is the body's
changed. So, since the last time you were successful with your same
workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? Or the font? Or the
internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket science, but it is science. :)
___

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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker forum
from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread and
the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this is
such an oddball occurrence ...

The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with Save
As PDF.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:17 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> Yes, indeed, Wonderland and not good! ... :(
>
> I don't have a TOC in my document - it is a combination of other PDF docs
> - so I cannot comment on that issue you have found!
>
> Certainly sounds like it may be worth reporting to Adobe ... perhaps they
> are monitoring this list. :) Or if somebody with a support agreement can
> duplicate my finding and report it.
>
> I am going to try to find some time to test FlexiPDF, to see if it can
> combine those documents into a large PDF, what size file it creates,
> whether the output there results in an Acrobat Pro problem, etc.
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 8:16 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> Interesting. The problem is that you're seeing the issue after using
> Reduce Size. I'm seeing it before any edits or size reduction is made to
> the PDF.
> I'm not entirely certain the issues are related, but I am no Acrobat
> expert. I basically have a joboptions file that I attach and then I forget
> about it because I'm not doing anything fancy, just creating PDFs for use
> by customers.
>
> Again, the text is messed up only in the TOC after I turn the book into a
> PDF. In the file with the headings that are being included in the TOC, the
> text displays perfectly in both the Frame file and in the PDF created from
> it.
>
> I've never seen the error message you mention, either.
>
> I don't think I like this version of Wonderland ...
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:10 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
> wrote:
>
> > Okay ... after experimentation to see what I am experiencing.
> >
> > I recreated the large PDF original with 750 pages from the source
> > files ("combined" other PDF files in Acrobat Pro). It is 53 Mbytes in
> size.
> >
> > This _original_ file is fine within Acrobat Pro and FlexiPDF - no
> > error messages and they display fine too.
> >
> > However, when I save this original PDF as a new PDF file with the
> > "Reduce PDF size" option selected, the result is screwed up - even
> > though it does get reduced to 34 Mbytes in size!
> >
> > The pages with Source Sans Pro text then get the message I mentioned
> > below when I read it back into Acrobat Pro! With FlexiPDF, the output
> > has overlapping text on those pages - messed up display of the page.
> >
> > As far as I am concerned, this clearly appears to be a bug in Acrobat
> > Pro (the latest version) that *creates* this problem.
> >
> > Also means that I have to stop using the "Reduce PDF size" option -
> > particularly if I use Source Sans Pro, I guess! And live with the
> > larger file size.
> >
> > I would love for somebody to duplicate my results ... argh!
> >
> > Z
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers
> > 
> > On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:22 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
> >
> > Interesting!
> >
> > The page works in FlexiPDF (my other tool), albeit with some
> > overlapping text (probably implying a font problem, I guess).
> >
> > In Adobe Acrobat Pro, I get an error message and no text whatsoever.
> >
> > Hmmm ... I will reload the font and see what happens ...
> >
> > Z
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers
> > 
> > On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:10 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
> >
> > Hmmm ... I don't know if the attached screen-capture will come through
> > on this list, but this is the message I get.
> >
> > It is a pop-up window from Adobe Acrobat that says "The font
> > 'SourceSans

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

Yes, indeed, Wonderland and not good! ... :(

I don't have a TOC in my document - it is a combination of other PDF docs - so 
I cannot comment on that issue you have found!

Certainly sounds like it may be worth reporting to Adobe ... perhaps they are 
monitoring this list. :) Or if somebody with a support agreement can duplicate 
my finding and report it.

I am going to try to find some time to test FlexiPDF, to see if it can combine 
those documents into a large PDF, what size file it creates, whether the output 
there results in an Acrobat Pro problem, etc. 

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 8:16 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

Interesting. The problem is that you're seeing the issue after using Reduce 
Size. I'm seeing it before any edits or size reduction is made to the PDF.
I'm not entirely certain the issues are related, but I am no Acrobat expert. I 
basically have a joboptions file that I attach and then I forget about it 
because I'm not doing anything fancy, just creating PDFs for use by customers.

Again, the text is messed up only in the TOC after I turn the book into a PDF. 
In the file with the headings that are being included in the TOC, the text 
displays perfectly in both the Frame file and in the PDF created from it.

I've never seen the error message you mention, either.

I don't think I like this version of Wonderland ...

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:10 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> Okay ... after experimentation to see what I am experiencing.
>
> I recreated the large PDF original with 750 pages from the source 
> files ("combined" other PDF files in Acrobat Pro). It is 53 Mbytes in size.
>
> This _original_ file is fine within Acrobat Pro and FlexiPDF - no 
> error messages and they display fine too.
>
> However, when I save this original PDF as a new PDF file with the 
> "Reduce PDF size" option selected, the result is screwed up - even 
> though it does get reduced to 34 Mbytes in size!
>
> The pages with Source Sans Pro text then get the message I mentioned 
> below when I read it back into Acrobat Pro! With FlexiPDF, the output 
> has overlapping text on those pages - messed up display of the page.
>
> As far as I am concerned, this clearly appears to be a bug in Acrobat 
> Pro (the latest version) that *creates* this problem.
>
> Also means that I have to stop using the "Reduce PDF size" option - 
> particularly if I use Source Sans Pro, I guess! And live with the 
> larger file size.
>
> I would love for somebody to duplicate my results ... argh!
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:22 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. < 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> Interesting!
>
> The page works in FlexiPDF (my other tool), albeit with some 
> overlapping text (probably implying a font problem, I guess).
>
> In Adobe Acrobat Pro, I get an error message and no text whatsoever.
>
> Hmmm ... I will reload the font and see what happens ...
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Framers 
> 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:10 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. < 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> Hmmm ... I don't know if the attached screen-capture will come through 
> on this list, but this is the message I get.
>
> It is a pop-up window from Adobe Acrobat that says "The font 
> 'SourceSansPro' contains bad /Widths."
>
> Needless to say, most of the info on those pages does not show at all ...
>
> I will try another PDF program, and also see if I can delete/reload 
> the font on my system to "cure" this issue.
>
> A question though: shouldn't I expect the font to be "embedded" in the 
> PDF to begin with? Which might likely mean a source problem?
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> 
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:01 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. < 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> I haven't seen any error messages. I hope that's not the case. Our 
> corporate font is Open Sans, but the tech docs department needs a lot 
> of glyphs that aren't included in it. Source Sans was the closest we 

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

Interesting. The problem is that you're seeing the issue after using Reduce
Size. I'm seeing it before any edits or size reduction is made to the PDF.
I'm not entirely certain the issues are related, but I am no Acrobat
expert. I basically have a joboptions file that I attach and then I forget
about it because I'm not doing anything fancy, just creating PDFs for use
by customers.

Again, the text is messed up only in the TOC after I turn the book into a
PDF. In the file with the headings that are being included in the TOC, the
text displays perfectly in both the Frame file and in the PDF created from
it.

I've never seen the error message you mention, either.

I don't think I like this version of Wonderland ...

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:10 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> Okay ... after experimentation to see what I am experiencing.
>
> I recreated the large PDF original with 750 pages from the source files
> ("combined" other PDF files in Acrobat Pro). It is 53 Mbytes in size.
>
> This _original_ file is fine within Acrobat Pro and FlexiPDF - no error
> messages and they display fine too.
>
> However, when I save this original PDF as a new PDF file with the "Reduce
> PDF size" option selected, the result is screwed up - even though it does
> get reduced to 34 Mbytes in size!
>
> The pages with Source Sans Pro text then get the message I mentioned below
> when I read it back into Acrobat Pro! With FlexiPDF, the output has
> overlapping text on those pages - messed up display of the page.
>
> As far as I am concerned, this clearly appears to be a bug in Acrobat Pro
> (the latest version) that *creates* this problem.
>
> Also means that I have to stop using the "Reduce PDF size" option -
> particularly if I use Source Sans Pro, I guess! And live with the larger
> file size.
>
> I would love for somebody to duplicate my results ... argh!
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:22 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> Interesting!
>
> The page works in FlexiPDF (my other tool), albeit with some overlapping
> text (probably implying a font problem, I guess).
>
> In Adobe Acrobat Pro, I get an error message and no text whatsoever.
>
> Hmmm ... I will reload the font and see what happens ...
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:10 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> Hmmm ... I don't know if the attached screen-capture will come through on
> this list, but this is the message I get.
>
> It is a pop-up window from Adobe Acrobat that says "The font
> 'SourceSansPro' contains bad /Widths."
>
> Needless to say, most of the info on those pages does not show at all ...
>
> I will try another PDF program, and also see if I can delete/reload the
> font on my system to "cure" this issue.
>
> A question though: shouldn't I expect the font to be "embedded" in the PDF
> to begin with? Which might likely mean a source problem?
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:01 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> I haven't seen any error messages. I hope that's not the case. Our
> corporate font is Open Sans, but the tech docs department needs a lot of
> glyphs that aren't included in it. Source Sans was the closest we could
> come, and I do not want to have to go looking for another font.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:42 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if this is related to the font Source Sans Pro?
> >
> > Some of my PDF documents that have this font are giving errors in
> > Acrobat Pro - something to do with "incorrect width". I can look again
> > if this seems like a possibility.
> >
> > Z
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage
> at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listin

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

Okay ... after experimentation to see what I am experiencing.

I recreated the large PDF original with 750 pages from the source files 
("combined" other PDF files in Acrobat Pro). It is 53 Mbytes in size.

This _original_ file is fine within Acrobat Pro and FlexiPDF - no error 
messages and they display fine too. 

However, when I save this original PDF as a new PDF file with the "Reduce PDF 
size" option selected, the result is screwed up - even though it does get 
reduced to 34 Mbytes in size!

The pages with Source Sans Pro text then get the message I mentioned below when 
I read it back into Acrobat Pro! With FlexiPDF, the output has overlapping text 
on those pages - messed up display of the page.

As far as I am concerned, this clearly appears to be a bug in Acrobat Pro (the 
latest version) that *creates* this problem.

Also means that I have to stop using the "Reduce PDF size" option - 
particularly if I use Source Sans Pro, I guess! And live with the larger file 
size.

I would love for somebody to duplicate my results ... argh!

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:22 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

Interesting!

The page works in FlexiPDF (my other tool), albeit with some overlapping text 
(probably implying a font problem, I guess).

In Adobe Acrobat Pro, I get an error message and no text whatsoever.

Hmmm ... I will reload the font and see what happens ...

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:10 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

Hmmm ... I don't know if the attached screen-capture will come through on this 
list, but this is the message I get.

It is a pop-up window from Adobe Acrobat that says "The font 'SourceSansPro' 
contains bad /Widths."

Needless to say, most of the info on those pages does not show at all ... 

I will try another PDF program, and also see if I can delete/reload the font on 
my system to "cure" this issue. 

A question though: shouldn't I expect the font to be "embedded" in the PDF to 
begin with? Which might likely mean a source problem?

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:01 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

I haven't seen any error messages. I hope that's not the case. Our corporate 
font is Open Sans, but the tech docs department needs a lot of glyphs that 
aren't included in it. Source Sans was the closest we could come, and I do not 
want to have to go looking for another font.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:42 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> I wonder if this is related to the font Source Sans Pro?
>
> Some of my PDF documents that have this font are giving errors in 
> Acrobat Pro - something to do with "incorrect width". I can look again 
> if this seems like a possibility.
>
> Z
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

Interesting!

The page works in FlexiPDF (my other tool), albeit with some overlapping text 
(probably implying a font problem, I guess).

In Adobe Acrobat Pro, I get an error message and no text whatsoever.

Hmmm ... I will reload the font and see what happens ...

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:10 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

Hmmm ... I don't know if the attached screen-capture will come through on this 
list, but this is the message I get.

It is a pop-up window from Adobe Acrobat that says "The font 'SourceSansPro' 
contains bad /Widths."

Needless to say, most of the info on those pages does not show at all ... 

I will try another PDF program, and also see if I can delete/reload the font on 
my system to "cure" this issue. 

A question though: shouldn't I expect the font to be "embedded" in the PDF to 
begin with? Which might likely mean a source problem?

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:01 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

I haven't seen any error messages. I hope that's not the case. Our corporate 
font is Open Sans, but the tech docs department needs a lot of glyphs that 
aren't included in it. Source Sans was the closest we could come, and I do not 
want to have to go looking for another font.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:42 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> I wonder if this is related to the font Source Sans Pro?
>
> Some of my PDF documents that have this font are giving errors in 
> Acrobat Pro - something to do with "incorrect width". I can look again 
> if this seems like a possibility.
>
> Z
___

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Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

Hmmm ... I don't know if the attached screen-capture will come through on this 
list, but this is the message I get.

It is a pop-up window from Adobe Acrobat that says "The font 'SourceSansPro' 
contains bad /Widths."

Needless to say, most of the info on those pages does not show at all ... 

I will try another PDF program, and also see if I can delete/reload the font on 
my system to "cure" this issue. 

A question though: shouldn't I expect the font to be "embedded" in the PDF to 
begin with? Which might likely mean a source problem?

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:01 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

I haven't seen any error messages. I hope that's not the case. Our corporate 
font is Open Sans, but the tech docs department needs a lot of glyphs that 
aren't included in it. Source Sans was the closest we could come, and I do not 
want to have to go looking for another font.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:42 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> I wonder if this is related to the font Source Sans Pro?
>
> Some of my PDF documents that have this font are giving errors in 
> Acrobat Pro - something to do with "incorrect width". I can look again 
> if this seems like a possibility.
>
> Z
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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

I haven't seen any error messages. I hope that's not the case. Our
corporate font is Open Sans, but the tech docs department needs a lot of
glyphs that aren't included in it. Source Sans was the closest we could
come, and I do not want to have to go looking for another font.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 9:42 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> I wonder if this is related to the font Source Sans Pro?
>
> Some of my PDF documents that have this font are giving errors in Acrobat
> Pro - something to do with "incorrect width". I can look again if this
> seems like a possibility.
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 9:58 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output
>
> Peter
> >
> > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc.
> > Is the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific
> > glyph pairs?
>
>
> The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to the
> TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The
> pictures you see are the "after" of that try.
>
> The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word spacing
> adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number
> (standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but since
> all the other tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, and
> only those two, convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the letter
> spacing or stretch settings on the font tab. There are no character tags
> applied in either the source file or the generated TOC.
>
> Doug
>
> > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF
> > it again.  Observe the results.
>
>
> No joy on this. There appears to be something about the actual word
> "Software" that the PDF engine is having a conniption about. The original
> text has Software oddly space, and the inserted text right before it also
> has "Software oddly spaced. In fact, the "e" from "Software" is overlapping
> the "P" of the original "Pulse".
>
> Maybe it's time to reinstall Acrobat. Again. I have constant problems with
> this program. Multiple Fatal DDE Errors, an inability to open PDFs by
> double-clicking on them from File Explorer or the download bar at the
> bottom of a browser, and on and on. An Adobe tech completely wiped every
> Adobe program and reinstalled them, and I've even had my machine completely
> reimaged and the problems continue.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM Doug  wrote:
>
> > Experiment by making changes to the source.
> >
> > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF
> > it again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete
> > everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.
> >
> > You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
> > >
> > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it,
> > > etc. Is the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to
> > > specific glyph pairs?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the
> > > > TOC,
> > they
> > > > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked
> > > > the paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files
> > > > and they
> > are
> > > > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those
> > > > two headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > > >
> > > > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If
> > anyone
> > > > has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks
> bad.
> > > >
> > > &g

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

I wonder if this is related to the font Source Sans Pro?

Some of my PDF documents that have this font are giving errors in Acrobat Pro - 
something to do with "incorrect width". I can look again if this seems like a 
possibility.

Z

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 9:58 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

Peter
>
> Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a 
> different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a 
> character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. 
> Is the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific 
> glyph pairs?


The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to the TOC 
it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The pictures you 
see are the "after" of that try.

The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word spacing 
adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number (standard 
workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but since all the other 
tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, and only those two, 
convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the letter spacing or stretch 
settings on the font tab. There are no character tags applied in either the 
source file or the generated TOC.

Doug

> For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF 
> it again.  Observe the results.


No joy on this. There appears to be something about the actual word "Software" 
that the PDF engine is having a conniption about. The original text has 
Software oddly space, and the inserted text right before it also has "Software 
oddly spaced. In fact, the "e" from "Software" is overlapping the "P" of the 
original "Pulse".

Maybe it's time to reinstall Acrobat. Again. I have constant problems with this 
program. Multiple Fatal DDE Errors, an inability to open PDFs by 
double-clicking on them from File Explorer or the download bar at the bottom of 
a browser, and on and on. An Adobe tech completely wiped every Adobe program 
and reinstalled them, and I've even had my machine completely reimaged and the 
problems continue.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM Doug  wrote:

> Experiment by making changes to the source.
>
> For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF 
> it again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete 
> everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.
>
> You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold 
> 
> wrote:
>
> > It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
> >
> > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a 
> > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a 
> > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, 
> > etc. Is the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to 
> > specific glyph pairs?
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> > > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the 
> > > TOC,
> they
> > > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked 
> > > the paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files 
> > > and they
> are
> > > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those 
> > > two headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > >
> > > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If
> anyone
> > > has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-c
> onversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

Rounding error?

Damn. I got to be special again. 

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 10:28 PM Peter Gold 
wrote:

> IMO, a rounding error in the Save As > PDF vs Print > PDF, from your
> assiduous testing and reporting, seems the most likely.
>



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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

IMO, a rounding error in the Save As > PDF vs Print > PDF, from your
assiduous testing and reporting, seems the most likely.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 9:13 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> There were two markers in the source paragraphs, one for the TOC xref link
> and one for an Index marker. I moved the Index marker. No good.
>
> There was a hard space between the word Pulse and the word Software. I took
> it out and replaced it with a regular space. Also no good.
>
> I deleted and RETYPED the heading. STILL no good.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "source fields", but if you're talking about the
> reference page setting up the TOC, I'm pretty sure that would have been
> cleared out by my removing the old TOC file and creating a new one using a
> known-good template for the TOC.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 5:27 PM Steve Rickaby 
> wrote:
>
> > At 16:46 -0400 11/9/20, Lin Sims wrote:
> >
> > >This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC,
> they
> > >look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> > >paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
> > >the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> > >headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > >
> > >I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
> > >has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
> >
> > Check that you haven't accidentally embedded any invisible characters in
> > the source fields for the TOC.
> >
> > >There appears to be something about the actual word "Software" that the
> > PDF engine is having a conniption about.
> >
> > Well, who wouldn't'? :-) Try another word?
> >
> > --
> > Steve
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
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>
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

There were two markers in the source paragraphs, one for the TOC xref link
and one for an Index marker. I moved the Index marker. No good.

There was a hard space between the word Pulse and the word Software. I took
it out and replaced it with a regular space. Also no good.

I deleted and RETYPED the heading. STILL no good.

Not sure what you mean by "source fields", but if you're talking about the
reference page setting up the TOC, I'm pretty sure that would have been
cleared out by my removing the old TOC file and creating a new one using a
known-good template for the TOC.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 5:27 PM Steve Rickaby 
wrote:

> At 16:46 -0400 11/9/20, Lin Sims wrote:
>
> >This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC, they
> >look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> >paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
> >the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> >headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> >
> >I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
> >has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
>
> Check that you haven't accidentally embedded any invisible characters in
> the source fields for the TOC.
>
> >There appears to be something about the actual word "Software" that the
> PDF engine is having a conniption about.
>
> Well, who wouldn't'? :-) Try another word?
>
> --
> Steve
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Steve Rickaby]

At 16:46 -0400 11/9/20, Lin Sims wrote:

>This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC, they
>look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
>paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
>the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
>headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
>
>I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
>has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.

Check that you haven't accidentally embedded any invisible characters in the 
source fields for the TOC.

>There appears to be something about the actual word "Software" that the PDF 
>engine is having a conniption about.

Well, who wouldn't'? :-) Try another word?

-- 
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

Spellcheck did indeed used to replace Interleaf with FrameMaker, but I
don't think it does anymore.

When it converts from Frame to PDF, that will make the link unclickable.
Also, I really don't want to have to apply a character tag to text created
in a generated document every time I regenerate the TOC. Acrobat PDF is
supposed to make an output that looks exactly like the input.

I should add (shouldn't I?) that the conversion from FM to PDF of the
actual chapters do NOT show that weird spacing for the word "Software".
Only in the TOC. Only those two lines.

I've reinstalled Acrobat DC. I've MIF-washed. I've used both the Save as
PDF (my usual route) and the Publish pod. They are all producing the same
result.

Ah! But printing the book using Adobe PDF *WORKED*! (That'd be File > Print
Book). I believe that uses Distiller directly or something? I forget. But
it worked!


On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 1:32 PM Peter Gold 
wrote:

> Hi, Lin:
>
> AHA! It's a secret plot of some kind. I remember there was a time long ago,
> when FM's auto-correct would replace "InterLeaf" or some other proprietary
> competitor, with "FrameMaker."
>
> The word-spacing computation might have a rounding error when it encounters
> specific glyph combinations in this particular font. Perhaps substitute a
> similar font for the problematic word(s) or adjust the kerning or
> letter-spacing, perhaps by applying a character format that sets one or the
> other or both properties.
>
> HTH
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > Peter
> > >
> > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc.
> Is
> > > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific
> glyph
> > > pairs?
> >
> >
> > The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to
> the
> > TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The
> > pictures you see are the "after" of that try.
> >
> > The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word spacing
> > adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number
> > (standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but
> since
> > all the other tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, and
> > only those two, convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the
> letter
> > spacing or stretch settings on the font tab. There are no character tags
> > applied in either the source file or the generated TOC.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> > > again.  Observe the results.
> >
> >
> > No joy on this. There appears to be something about the actual word
> > "Software" that the PDF engine is having a conniption about. The original
> > text has Software oddly space, and the inserted text right before it also
> > has "Software oddly spaced. In fact, the "e" from "Software" is
> overlapping
> > the "P" of the original "Pulse".
> >
> > Maybe it's time to reinstall Acrobat. Again. I have constant problems
> with
> > this program. Multiple Fatal DDE Errors, an inability to open PDFs by
> > double-clicking on them from File Explorer or the download bar at the
> > bottom of a browser, and on and on. An Adobe tech completely wiped every
> > Adobe program and reinstalled them, and I've even had my machine
> completely
> > reimaged and the problems continue.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM Doug  wrote:
> >
> > > Experiment by making changes to the source.
> > >
> > > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> > > again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete
> > > everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.
> > >
> > > You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it,
> etc.
> > Is
> > > > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific
> > glyph
> > > > pairs?
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the
> TOC,
> > > they
> > > > > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked
> the
> > > > > paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and
> they
> > > are
> > > > > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those
> > two
> > > > > headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If
>

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Lin:

AHA! It's a secret plot of some kind. I remember there was a time long ago,
when FM's auto-correct would replace "InterLeaf" or some other proprietary
competitor, with "FrameMaker."

The word-spacing computation might have a rounding error when it encounters
specific glyph combinations in this particular font. Perhaps substitute a
similar font for the problematic word(s) or adjust the kerning or
letter-spacing, perhaps by applying a character format that sets one or the
other or both properties.

HTH


On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Peter
> >
> > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
> > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
> > pairs?
>
>
> The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to the
> TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The
> pictures you see are the "after" of that try.
>
> The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word spacing
> adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number
> (standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but since
> all the other tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, and
> only those two, convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the letter
> spacing or stretch settings on the font tab. There are no character tags
> applied in either the source file or the generated TOC.
>
> Doug
>
> > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> > again.  Observe the results.
>
>
> No joy on this. There appears to be something about the actual word
> "Software" that the PDF engine is having a conniption about. The original
> text has Software oddly space, and the inserted text right before it also
> has "Software oddly spaced. In fact, the "e" from "Software" is overlapping
> the "P" of the original "Pulse".
>
> Maybe it's time to reinstall Acrobat. Again. I have constant problems with
> this program. Multiple Fatal DDE Errors, an inability to open PDFs by
> double-clicking on them from File Explorer or the download bar at the
> bottom of a browser, and on and on. An Adobe tech completely wiped every
> Adobe program and reinstalled them, and I've even had my machine completely
> reimaged and the problems continue.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM Doug  wrote:
>
> > Experiment by making changes to the source.
> >
> > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> > again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete
> > everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.
> >
> > You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
> > >
> > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc.
> Is
> > > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific
> glyph
> > > pairs?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC,
> > they
> > > > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> > > > paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they
> > are
> > > > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those
> two
> > > > headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > > >
> > > > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If
> > anyone
> > > > has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks
> bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Lin Sims
> > > > ___
> > > >
> > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > > >
> > > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > > > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > > > Archives located at
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> > > Subscribe and uns

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

Peter
>
> Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
> the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
> pairs?


The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to the
TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The
pictures you see are the "after" of that try.

The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word spacing
adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number
(standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but since
all the other tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, and
only those two, convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the letter
spacing or stretch settings on the font tab. There are no character tags
applied in either the source file or the generated TOC.

Doug

> For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> again.  Observe the results.


No joy on this. There appears to be something about the actual word
"Software" that the PDF engine is having a conniption about. The original
text has Software oddly space, and the inserted text right before it also
has "Software oddly spaced. In fact, the "e" from "Software" is overlapping
the "P" of the original "Pulse".

Maybe it's time to reinstall Acrobat. Again. I have constant problems with
this program. Multiple Fatal DDE Errors, an inability to open PDFs by
double-clicking on them from File Explorer or the download bar at the
bottom of a browser, and on and on. An Adobe tech completely wiped every
Adobe program and reinstalled them, and I've even had my machine completely
reimaged and the problems continue.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM Doug  wrote:

> Experiment by making changes to the source.
>
> For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete
> everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.
>
> You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold 
> wrote:
>
> > It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
> >
> > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
> > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
> > pairs?
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> > > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC,
> they
> > > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> > > paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they
> are
> > > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> > > headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > >
> > > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If
> anyone
> > > has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lin Sims
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > > Archives located at
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> > >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
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> >
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>
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Doug]

Experiment by making changes to the source.

For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete
everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.

You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold 
wrote:

> It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
>
> Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
> the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
> pairs?
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC, they
> > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> > paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
> > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> > headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> >
> > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
> > has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
> >
> >
> >
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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>
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)

Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
pairs?

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC, they
> look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
> the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
>
> I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
> has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
>
>
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
>
> --
> Lin Sims
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[Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Lin Sims]

This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC, they
look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.

I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1

-- 
Lin Sims
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