Re: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Simon BUCH]

Dear Russ  Framers,

I tried MIF washing, and book updating, all to no avail.
I suspect it's a nasty bug, but one that only a few people will experience.

Regards
// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS



On 29/07/2013 19:22, r...@weststreetconsulting.com wrote:

Simon,

A book structure representation is typically unreliable until after a
book update. Did you try a book update after adding files?

Also, related to the previous comment, you should avoid trying to move
documents around by moving their root elements in the book structure
tree. You should use the book window, then use a book update to
automatically refresh the structure tree.

Russ





Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:57:49 +
From: Simon BUCH simon.b...@m-ais.com
To: 'Framers'
Subject: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in
  the structure
Message-ID: 51f666cd.3040...@m-ais.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed

Dear Framers,

This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the FrameUsers
list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics - to be sent.


I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents
into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced

the same or similar effect.

FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the
latest patches installed.
The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as ENR_3_3_en.fm
being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section documents having
additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm

If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole
structure of the document messed up.

I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and before
the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the documents
in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm,
ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that

they are located /after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!

The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I noticed
that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which /were/
in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow
reversed.

If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I
have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.


I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
b. select the FrameMaker Add  Files... menu item
c. In the Add Files to book dialog, with the details being shown:
  reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z -
A ordering
d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the y file]
e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the a file]
f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the z
file]
... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the

book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.


Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?


// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]





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Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Simon BUCH]

Dear Russ & Framers,

I tried MIF washing, and book updating, all to no avail.
I suspect it's a nasty bug, but one that only a few people will experience.

Regards
// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS



On 29/07/2013 19:22, russ at weststreetconsulting.com wrote:
> Simon,
>
> A book structure representation is typically unreliable until after a
> book update. Did you try a book update after adding files?
>
> Also, related to the previous comment, you should avoid trying to move
> documents around by moving their root elements in the book structure
> tree. You should use the book window, then use a book update to
> automatically refresh the structure tree.
>
> Russ
>
>
>>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:57:49 +
> From: Simon BUCH 
> To: 'Framers'
> Subject: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in
>   the structure
> Message-ID: <51F666CD.3040509 at m-ais.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Dear Framers,
>
> This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the FrameUsers
> list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics - to be sent.
>
>
> I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents
> into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced
>
> the same or similar effect.
>
> FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the
> latest patches installed.
> The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as ENR_3_3_en.fm
> being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section documents having
> additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm
>
> If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the
> documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole
> structure of the document messed up.
>
> I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and before
> the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the documents
> in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm,
> ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that
>
> they are located /after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!
>
> The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I noticed
> that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which /were/
> in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow
> reversed.
>
> If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I
> have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.
>
>
> I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
> a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
> b. select the FrameMaker Add > Files... menu item
> c. In the "Add Files to book" dialog, with the "details" being shown:
>   reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z -
> A ordering
> d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the "y" file]
> e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the "a" file]
> f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the "z"
> file]
> ... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the
>
> book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.
>
>
> Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?
>
>
> // Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
> // [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]
>
>
>>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as simon.buch at m-ais.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/simon.buch%40m-ais.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Simon BUCH]

Dear Framers,

This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the FrameUsers 
list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics - to be sent.



I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents 
into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced 
the same or similar effect.


FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the 
latest patches installed.
The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as ENR_3_3_en.fm 
being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section documents having 
additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm


If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the 
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole 
structure of the document messed up.


I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and before 
the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the documents 
in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, 
ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that 
they are located /after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!


The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I noticed 
that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which /were/ 
in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow reversed.


If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I 
have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.



I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
b. select the FrameMaker Add  Files... menu item
c. In the Add Files to book dialog, with the details being shown:
 reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z - 
A ordering

d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the y file]
e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the a file]
f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the z file]
... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the 
book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.



Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?


// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]


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RE: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Fred Ridder]

The strange, mostly inverted order issue you are seeing has always existed in 
FrameMaker ever since Windows allowed selection of multiple files in file 
dialogs. Adobe has always stated that the issue is caused by the way Windows 
passes the file pointers to applications, which is not the same as the order in 
which the user selects them. 

But I have no answer for the new elements being inserted in the wrong location 
relative to the insertion point because I have very little experience with 
structured mode.

-Fred Ridder

Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:57:49 +
From: simon.b...@m-ais.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the  
structure


  

  
  
Dear Framers,



This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the
FrameUsers list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics -
to be sent.





I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured
documents into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys
have experienced the same or similar effect.



FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the
latest patches installed. 

The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as
ENR_3_3_en.fm being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section
documents having additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm



If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole
structure of the document messed up.  



I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and
before the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the
documents in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by
ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the
structure view shows that they are located after the
ENR_3_5_en.fm document!  



The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I
noticed that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm -
which were in the correct order before the
drag-drop function, are somehow reversed.



If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window,
I have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.





I managed to add the files in the correct order by:

a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view

b. select the FrameMaker Add  Files... menu item

c. In the Add Files to book dialog, with the details being
shown:

 reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows
Z - A ordering

d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the y file]

e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the a
file]

f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the z
file]

... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into
the book 2 elements after where I had moved the insertion
pointer.





Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?





// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS

// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]





  


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RE: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[russ]

Simon,

A book structure representation is typically unreliable until after a
book update. Did you try a book update after adding files?

Also, related to the previous comment, you should avoid trying to move
documents around by moving their root elements in the book structure
tree. You should use the book window, then use a book update to
automatically refresh the structure tree.

Russ




Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:57:49 +
From: Simon BUCH simon.b...@m-ais.com
To: 'Framers' 
Subject: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in
 the structure
Message-ID: 51f666cd.3040...@m-ais.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed

Dear Framers,

This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the FrameUsers 
list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics - to be sent.


I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents 
into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced

the same or similar effect.

FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the 
latest patches installed.
The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as ENR_3_3_en.fm 
being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section documents having 
additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm

If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the 
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole 
structure of the document messed up.

I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and before 
the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the documents 
in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, 
ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that

they are located /after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!

The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I noticed 
that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which /were/ 
in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow
reversed.

If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I 
have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.


I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
b. select the FrameMaker Add  Files... menu item
c. In the Add Files to book dialog, with the details being shown:
 reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z - 
A ordering
d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the y file]
e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the a file]
f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the z
file]
... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the

book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.


Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?


// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]





___


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Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
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Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Simon BUCH]

Dear Framers,

This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the FrameUsers 
list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics - to be sent.


I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents 
into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced 
the same or similar effect.

FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the 
latest patches installed.
The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as ENR_3_3_en.fm 
being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section documents having 
additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm

If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the 
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole 
structure of the document messed up.

I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and before 
the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the documents 
in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, 
ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that 
they are located /after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!

The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I noticed 
that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which /were/ 
in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow reversed.

If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I 
have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.


I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
b. select the FrameMaker Add > Files... menu item
c. In the "Add Files to book" dialog, with the "details" being shown:
  reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z - 
A ordering
d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the "y" file]
e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the "a" file]
f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the "z" file]
... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the 
book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.


Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?


// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]


-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Fred Ridder]

The strange, mostly inverted order issue you are seeing has always existed in 
FrameMaker ever since Windows allowed selection of multiple files in file 
dialogs. Adobe has always stated that the issue is caused by the way Windows 
passes the file pointers to applications, which is not the same as the order in 
which the user selects them. 

But I have no answer for the new elements being inserted in the wrong location 
relative to the insertion point because I have very little experience with 
structured mode.

-Fred Ridder

Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:57:49 +
From: simon.b...@m-ais.com
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the  
structure






Dear Framers,



This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the
FrameUsers list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics -
to be sent.





I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured
documents into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys
have experienced the same or similar effect.



FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the
latest patches installed. 

The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as
ENR_3_3_en.fm being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section
documents having additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm



If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole
structure of the document messed up.  



I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and
before the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the
documents in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by
ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the
structure view shows that they are located after the
ENR_3_5_en.fm document!  



The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I
noticed that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm -
which were in the correct order before the
drag-drop function, are somehow reversed.



If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window,
I have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.





I managed to add the files in the correct order by:

a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view

b. select the FrameMaker Add > Files... menu item

c. In the "Add Files to book" dialog, with the "details" being
shown:

 reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows
Z - A ordering

d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the "y" file]

e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the "a"
file]

f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the "z"
file]

... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into
the book 2 elements after where I had moved the insertion
pointer.





Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?





// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS

// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]








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Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.

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-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[r...@weststreetconsulting.com]

Simon,

A book structure representation is typically unreliable until after a
book update. Did you try a book update after adding files?

Also, related to the previous comment, you should avoid trying to move
documents around by moving their root elements in the book structure
tree. You should use the book window, then use a book update to
automatically refresh the structure tree.

Russ


>
>
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:57:49 +
From: Simon BUCH 
To: 'Framers' 
Subject: Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in
 the structure
Message-ID: <51F666CD.3040509 at m-ais.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Dear Framers,

This is a resend of my previous message - as I suspect the FrameUsers 
list doesn't allow for attachments - such as graphics - to be sent.


I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents 
into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced

the same or similar effect.

FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the 
latest patches installed.
The files are organised in sub-section documents, such as ENR_3_3_en.fm 
being the ENR 3.3 document, and sub-sub-section documents having 
additional numbering, such as: ENR_3_3_1_en.fm

If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the 
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole 
structure of the document messed up.

I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm document, and before 
the ENR_3_4_en.fm document. The book file appears to have the documents 
in the correct order ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, 
ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that

they are located /after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!

The effect of adding these documents gets even stranger when I noticed 
that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which /were/ 
in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow
reversed.

If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I 
have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.


I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
b. select the FrameMaker Add > Files... menu item
c. In the "Add Files to book" dialog, with the "details" being shown:
 reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z - 
A ordering
d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the "y" file]
e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the "a" file]
f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the "z"
file]
... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the

book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.


Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?


// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]


>
>

Adding structured files into a book yields the wrong order in the structure

[Simon BUCH]

Dear Framers,

I've been having a problem with adding FrameMaker structured documents 
into a structured book, and I wonder if any of you guys have experienced 
the same or similar effect.

FWIW, I'm using FrameMaker 10, running on Windows7 - both with the 
latest patches installed.

If I select a range of documents in an explorer window, and drag the 
documents inside the book file, I appear to be able to get the whole 
structure of the document messed up.  I've attached a screenshot of the 
effect - where I dragged the files to be after the ENR_3_3_en.fm 
document, and before the ENR_3_4_en.fm document.

The book file appears to have the documents in the correct order 
ENR_3_3_en.fm, followed by ENR_3_3_1_en.fm, ENR_3_3_2_en.fm, 
ENR_3_3_3_en.fm, etc. but the structure view shows that they are located 
/after/ the ENR_3_5_en.fm document!  It gets even stranger when I 
noticed that the ENR_3_4_en.fm, ENR_3_5_en.fm, and ENR_3_6_en.fm - which 
/were/ in the correct order /before /the drag-drop function, are somehow 
reversed.

If I try rearranging some of the files in the structure view window, I 
have seen FrameMaker crash a few times.


I managed to add the files in the correct order by:
a. move the insertion pointer in the structure view
b. select the FrameMaker Add > Files... menu item
c. In the "Add Files to book" dialog, with the "details" being shown:
  reserve the Name sort order in the Windows dialog, so it shows Z - 
A ordering
d. select the second file in the reversed order [e.g. the "y" file]
e. shift-select the last file in the reversed order [e.g. the "a" file]
f. control-select the first file in the reversed order [e.g. the "z" file]
... but even with this, I found that FrameMaker added the files into the 
book 2 elements /after/ where I had moved the insertion pointer.


Has anyone else observed these behaviours before?


// Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
// [still working with FrameMaker after all these years]


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