RE: Flare vs Frame
Here are answers to the software purchasing questions... Front Runner is also an Adobe Software Reseller... To answer Jim Pinkham's question... If your company purchased a Maintenance package with FrameMaker you would get updates/upgrades as they become available, provided the Maintenance is current. To answer Steve Johnson's question... If a customer wants to do backward licensing, they order the current version volume license of the product and the old ESD (Electronic Software Download - one version back). Then they call Adobe Customer Care at 800-443-8158 to request a serial number that matches the ESD. They will need to provide the Adobe order number for the current version order. Also, if they purchased an upgrade license (for example, CS3 to CS5), they will also need to provide the serial number of the original product they are upgrading from. It takes a few days to get the old serial number. This is a much easier process for someone who already has some volume licenses of the product they want to install and just needs to buy more of them. They dont need to buy the old ESD unless they dont already have the old media. And they dont need to call for a serial number; they just use the old serial number they already have to install on additional workstations. If anyone is looking to purchase software let us know at Front Runner. We can provide you pricing for the software and when you purchase the software from us you get discounts on the training! Thanks Sincerely, Veronica Kütt President Front Runner Training, a Div. of Front Runner Publishing Solutions Inc. 416-515-0155 Call Toll free: 1-877-999-0155 veron...@front-runner.com -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Johnson Sent: January-11-11 1:20 PM To: generic...@yahoo.ca Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Jeremy H. Griffith Subject: Re: Flare vs Frame You can still buy Frame 8 using a special kind of licensing I can't think of now, maybe volume licensing. Search the Adobe Forum; you'll find it. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote: I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. No, you can't. You could use Mif2Go (our product, for $295), or ePublisher (for way more) snip WebWorks ePublisher can also process Word files, if you decide to stick with Word. It can also process a mix of Word, FM, and XML files. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as veron...@front-runner.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/veronica%40front-runner. com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
Flare is a full-blown single sourcing program, something like Structured Frame, and includes online help output. It's more complicated to use, but might be more powerful. I never used it. You have to take into account that the downside to using more complex and less popular programs is that the company you are working for would be stuck with getting writers that know that particular tool. Frame is a nice compromise of a relatively easy tool to learn, very popular and very powerful. Just my 2 cents. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer +972-52-763-7133 On 1/11/2011 3:18 PM, Paul Carr wrote: Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
You can still buy Frame 8 using a special kind of licensing I can't think of now, maybe volume licensing. Search the Adobe Forum; you'll find it. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote: I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. No, you can't. You could use Mif2Go (our product, for $295), or ePublisher (for way more) snip WebWorks ePublisher can also process Word files, if you decide to stick with Word. It can also process a mix of Word, FM, and XML files. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs Frame
Flare is a full-blown single sourcing program, something like Structured Frame, and includes online help output. It's more complicated to use, but might be more powerful. I never used it. You have to take into account that the downside to using more complex and less popular programs is that the company you are working for would be stuck with getting writers that know that particular tool. Frame is a nice compromise of a relatively easy tool to learn, very popular and very powerful. Just my 2 cents. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer +972-52-763-7133 On 1/11/2011 3:18 PM, Paul Carr wrote: > Folks, > > At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html > (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. > > My audience is support folks for internal software. > > They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, > down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since > everyone knows Word. > > I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. > > I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be > worth it. > > I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly > content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for > one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. > > I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se. > > Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an > online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my > document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my > leisure. > > I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. > Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. > > Could anyone offer any guidance on this? > > Thanks. > > best, > Paul > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as shmuelw1 at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Flare vs Frame
Here are answers to the software purchasing questions... Front Runner is also an Adobe Software Reseller... To answer Jim Pinkham's question... If your company purchased a Maintenance package with FrameMaker you would get updates/upgrades as they become available, provided the Maintenance is current. To answer Steve Johnson's question... If a customer wants to do backward licensing, they order the current version volume license of the product and the old ESD (Electronic Software Download - one version back). Then they call Adobe Customer Care at 800-443-8158 to request a serial number that matches the ESD. They will need to provide the Adobe order number for the current version order. Also, if they purchased an upgrade license (for example, CS3 to CS5), they will also need to provide the serial number of the original product they are upgrading from. It takes a few days to get the old serial number. This is a much easier process for someone who already has some volume licenses of the product they want to install and just needs to buy more of them. They don?t need to buy the old ESD unless they don?t already have the old media. And they don?t need to call for a serial number; they just use the old serial number they already have to install on additional workstations. If anyone is looking to purchase software let us know at Front Runner. We can provide you pricing for the software and when you purchase the software from us you get discounts on the training! Thanks Sincerely, Veronica K?tt President Front Runner Training, a Div. of Front Runner Publishing Solutions Inc. 416-515-0155 Call Toll free: 1-877-999-0155 veronica at front-runner.com -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Johnson Sent: January-11-11 1:20 PM To: generic668 at yahoo.ca Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com; Jeremy H. Griffith Subject: Re: Flare vs Frame You can still buy Frame 8 using a special kind of licensing I can't think of now, maybe volume licensing. Search the Adobe Forum; you'll find it. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Writer wrote: >> >I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. >> >> No, you can't.? You could use Mif2Go (our product, >> for $295), or ePublisher (for way more) > > WebWorks ePublisher can also process Word files, if you decide to stick with Word. It can also process a mix of Word, FM, and XML files. > > Nadine > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as veronica at front-runner.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/veronica%40front-runner. com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs Frame
Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:18:04 -0800, Paul Carr ob...@me.com wrote: I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. True, and the numbering is stable too. Along with dozens of other reasons Frame 8 is better than Word for tech pubs. More recent FM versions may not be. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. No, you can't. You could use Mif2Go (our product, for $295), or ePublisher (for way more), directly with the Frame files. Other apps, like Flare and Robo, import the Frame files instead, which means lots more work for every revision. Robo claims to link, but see what its users have to say about that on: http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users and decide for yourself. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.com http://www.omsys.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
Like you, I'd go with Frame, because you can easily get from Frame to .chm (if necessary) either through RoboHelp or MIF2go. You could do online reviews pretty easily with FM, using PDF as your reviewing tool. CMEs can cut in comments/corrections using Reader and those can be round-tripped back into Frame. Note that FM 10 has already been previewed/leaked by Adobe... Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Paul Carr ob...@me.com wrote: Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs Frame
I would find out if .chm IS really the format they want. It almost sounds like you/they would be better off with a Wiki. Mike -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:18 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs Frame Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as mike.feims...@acstechnologies.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mike.feimster%40acst echnologies.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs Frame
Paul Carr wrote: At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. Yes, that's what .chm, a.k.a., HTMLHelp, is. But if you're not sure that's what they mean or want, you might want to talk with them some more. This is for a Windows app, right? My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. Why? Based on an analysis of their needs, or just your preference? You want to teach the folks who'll maintain the docs FM 8? You realize they can't buy FM 8 anymore (except on eBay, etc.)? I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. Never did it before? Yet you want to convince them that it's better? On what basis? BTW, no -- you can't go from Frame to .chm, not directly. And without a HAT (RoboHelp, ePublisher, Mif2Go), it's a fairly crude and cumbersome process. So now you're looking at selling them on Adobe TCS, or some other tool chain, and teaching their non-TW staff multiple apps. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Why would you even _think_ of selling them on a tool you're not familiar with? Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. FM 9 and 10 (just out) support review PDFs. Reviewers mark up the PDF in Reader, and you can import their markup back into FM as tracked changes. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? I'm a huge fan of FrameMaker, and I use it every day for print, PDF, and online help deliverables. But that doesn't mean it's the best tool for every situation. You seem to be pushing this client toward a solution that suits your preferences (or your desire to learn something new), not their needs. Is the deliverable strictly online help for a Windows app? If so, and you want to explore alternatives to Word as authoring tools, I suggest you limit yourself to HATs. Since this is internal software and your client wants their staff to maintain the help in the future, I suspect the online help doesn't need to push the boundaries of what's possible. I'd seriously evaluate two HATs that have a reputation for being relatively straightforward to learn and use and are no doubt more than powerful enough for your client's needs: -- Doc2Help: I haven't used this HAT in several years, but I recall it being user-friendly and easy to integrate into a Word environment. -- Help Manual: I haven't used this HAT at all, but over the years I've seen it frequently praised for its ease of use. A thread just last week on the Techwr-l list (New doc group: FrameMaker or Flare site: lists.techwr-l.com) brought forth many posts enthusiastically endorsing H M for the described situation (which sounded somewhat like yours). Please don't push your client into something that isn't well-suited to their needs just because of your own likes and dislikes. Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-903-6372 -- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. No, you can't. You could use Mif2Go (our product, for $295), or ePublisher (for way more) snip WebWorks ePublisher can also process Word files, if you decide to stick with Word. It can also process a mix of Word, FM, and XML files. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs Frame
Hello Paul, I have been in a similar position. Businesses are all about money. You have to sell them on the idea that using Frame and/or RoboHelp reduces the project cost compared to Word. For example, you might prepare an estimate showing that using Word for the project would take 160 hours. But using Frame would take only 130 hours. 30 fewer billable hours is a significant savings for your client. The client might be afraid of introducing new technology. So you might say, If you really truly want the project done in Word, of course, I will use Word. But using the right tool for the job (Frame, RoboHelp, Flare, etc.) yields better results, in less time, with fewer problems. In every way, you are much better off using (Frame, RoboHelp, Flare, etc.). Good luck! Daniel -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:18 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs Frame Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dani...@promise.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/danield%40promise.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Flare vs Frame
Hi Paul: Yes, you can go from FrameMaker to .chm files, but I would recommend using something like Mif2Go or WebWorks ePublisher because the native FrameMaker conversion has never been that robust. However, Adobe just released FrameMaker 10, so maybe it's better. For an online review environment, I've been using Adobe Acrobat 9 with my FrameMaker 7.2 files and the reviewers are happy. They don't have to have FrameMaker, and Acrobat has a reasonably good interface for reviewing. (You can share the PDF so that reviewers can see each others' comments as soon as they click on the Publish button.) In FrameMaker 9, you can also import the comments from the PDF into FrameMaker and they appear as conditional text that you can accept or reject at your leisure. I'm not sure this is available in FrameMaker 8. Yes, I totally support your effort to use anything but Word to produce the HTML files. Sorry I don't know anything about Flare. Fei Min -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:18 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs Frame Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not sell Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as feimin.lore...@onsemi.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/feimin.lorente%40ons emi.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
There is no native CHM conversion, merely save as HTML. You *can* save as HTML and then create all of your TOC/IX/keyword files, manage map IDs, and then compile it all outside of FM using HTML Help Workshop or another product with the compiler, but you also might have better uses of your time. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Fei Min Lorente feimin.lore...@onsemi.com wrote: Yes, you can go from FrameMaker to .chm files, but I would recommend using something like Mif2Go or WebWorks ePublisher because the native FrameMaker conversion has never been that robust. However, Adobe just released FrameMaker 10, so maybe it's better. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Flare vs Frame
No, you can't. You could use Mif2Go (our product, for $295), or ePublisher (for way more), directly with the Frame files. Other apps, like Flare and Robo, import the Frame files instead, which means lots more work for every revision. Robo claims to link, but see what its users have to say about that on: http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users and decide for yourself. FWIW, I've used linking between RH FM with little issue. The only issue I found was with regard to conditional text, which I documented on my blog. http://techcommdood.com/2010/06/03/using-conditional-text-in-adobe-technical-communication-suite-2/ That said, I still feel that Mif2Go and ePublisher outshine other offerings with regard to single-sourcing from FrameMaker. Though, it'll be interesting to see what's truly under the hood of TCS3. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs Frame
Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul
Flare vs Frame
On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:18:04 -0800, Paul Carr wrote: >I told them that Frame would make the development of >the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because >of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. True, and the numbering is stable too. Along with dozens of other reasons Frame 8 is better than Word for tech pubs. More recent FM versions may not be. >I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. No, you can't. You could use Mif2Go (our product, for $295), or ePublisher (for way more), directly with the Frame files. Other apps, like Flare and Robo, import the Frame files instead, which means lots more work for every revision. Robo claims to "link", but see what its users have to say about that on: http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users and decide for yourself. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. http://www.omsys.com/
Flare vs Frame
Like you, I'd go with Frame, because you can easily get from Frame to .chm (if necessary) either through RoboHelp or MIF2go. You could do online reviews pretty easily with FM, using PDF as your reviewing tool. CMEs can cut in comments/corrections using Reader and those can be round-tripped back into Frame. Note that FM 10 has already been previewed/leaked by Adobe... Art Campbell ? ? ? ? ? ? ? art.campbell at gmail.com ? "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? No disclaimers apply. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? DoD 358 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Paul Carr wrote: > Folks, > > At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html > (by which I assume they mean .chm). ?They think. > > My audience is support folks for internal software. > > They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, > down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since > everyone knows Word. > > I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. > > I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be > worth it. > > I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly > content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for > one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. > > I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se. > > Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an > online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my > document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my > leisure. > > I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. > Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. > > Could anyone offer any guidance on this? > > Thanks. > > best, > Paul > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campbell at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. >
Flare vs Frame
I would find out if .chm IS really the format they want. It almost sounds like you/they would be better off with a Wiki. Mike -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:18 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs Frame Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as mike.feimster at acstechnologies.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/mike.feimster%40acst echnologies.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs Frame
Paul Carr wrote:
> At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled
> html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think.
Yes, that's what .chm, a.k.a., HTMLHelp, is. But if you're not sure that's what
they mean or want, you might want to talk with them some more. This is for a
Windows app, right?
> My audience is support folks for internal software.
>
> They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because,
> down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since
> everyone knows Word.
>
> I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8.
Why? Based on an analysis of their needs, or just your preference?
You want to teach the folks who'll maintain the docs FM 8? You realize they
can't buy FM 8 anymore (except on eBay, etc.)?
> I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be
> worth it.
>
> I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly
> content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options,
> for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it
> before.
Never did it before? Yet you want to convince them that it's better? On what
basis?
BTW, no -- you can't go from Frame to .chm, not directly. And without a HAT
(RoboHelp, ePublisher, Mif2Go), it's a fairly crude and cumbersome process. So
now you're looking at selling them on Adobe TCS, or some other tool chain, and
teaching their non-TW staff multiple apps.
> I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se.
Why would you even _think_ of selling them on a tool you're not familiar with?
> Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an
> online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to
> my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at
> my leisure.
>
> I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs.
> Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9.
FM 9 and 10 (just out) support review PDFs. Reviewers mark up the PDF in
Reader, and you can import their markup back into FM as tracked changes.
>
> Could anyone offer any guidance on this?
I'm a huge fan of FrameMaker, and I use it every day for print, PDF, and online
help deliverables. But that doesn't mean it's the best tool for every
situation. You seem to be pushing this client toward a solution that suits your
preferences (or your desire to learn something new), not their needs.
Is the deliverable strictly online help for a Windows app? If so, and you want
to explore alternatives to Word as authoring tools, I suggest you limit
yourself to HATs. Since this is internal software and your client wants their
staff to maintain the help in the future, I suspect the online help doesn't
need to push the boundaries of what's possible. I'd seriously evaluate two HATs
that have a reputation for being relatively straightforward to learn and use
and are no doubt more than powerful enough for your client's needs:
-- Doc2Help: I haven't used this HAT in several years, but I recall it being
user-friendly and easy to integrate into a Word environment.
-- Help & Manual: I haven't used this HAT at all, but over the years I've seen
it frequently praised for its ease of use. A thread just last week on the
Techwr-l list ("New doc group: FrameMaker or Flare" site: lists.techwr-l.com)
brought forth many posts enthusiastically endorsing H & M for the described
situation (which sounded somewhat like yours).
Please don't push your client into something that isn't well-suited to their
needs just because of your own likes and dislikes.
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--
Flare vs Frame
> >I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. > > No, you can't.? You could use Mif2Go (our product, > for $295), or ePublisher (for way more) WebWorks ePublisher can also process Word files, if you decide to stick with Word. It can also process a mix of Word, FM, and XML files. Nadine
Flare vs Frame
Hello Paul, I have been in a similar position. Businesses are all about money. You have to sell them on the idea that using Frame and/or RoboHelp reduces the project cost compared to Word. For example, you might prepare an estimate showing that using Word for the project would take 160 hours. But using Frame would take only 130 hours. 30 fewer billable hours is a significant savings for your client. The client might be afraid of introducing "new technology." So you might say, "If you really truly want the project done in Word, of course, I will use Word. "But using the right tool for the job (Frame, RoboHelp, Flare, etc.) yields better results, in less time, with fewer problems. "In every way, you are much better off using (Frame, RoboHelp, Flare, etc.). Good luck! Daniel -Original Message- From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:18 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs Frame Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as danield at promise.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/danield%40promise.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs Frame
Hi Paul: Yes, you can go from FrameMaker to .chm files, but I would recommend using something like Mif2Go or WebWorks ePublisher because the native FrameMaker conversion has never been that robust. However, Adobe just released FrameMaker 10, so maybe it's better. For an online review environment, I've been using Adobe Acrobat 9 with my FrameMaker 7.2 files and the reviewers are happy. They don't have to have FrameMaker, and Acrobat has a reasonably good interface for reviewing. (You can share the PDF so that reviewers can see each others' comments as soon as they click on the Publish button.) In FrameMaker 9, you can also import the comments from the PDF into FrameMaker and they appear as conditional text that you can accept or reject at your leisure. I'm not sure this is available in FrameMaker 8. Yes, I totally support your effort to use anything but Word to produce the HTML files. Sorry I don't know anything about Flare. Fei Min -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Paul Carr Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:18 AM To: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Flare vs Frame Folks, At my new contract, they have Word (och!) and want to output to compiled html (by which I assume they mean .chm). They think. My audience is support folks for internal software. They think that they want to stay with Word for the source files because, down the road, anyone will be able to maintain the source files, since everyone knows Word. I would like to convince them to switch to Flare or Frame 8. I think that they might agree to switch if I can show them that it would be worth it. I told them that Frame would make the development of the .chm-friendly content much easier than Word, because of Frame's advanced x-ref options, for one thing. I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. Never did it before. I am not familiar with Flare, so I could not "sell" Flare per se. Also, a key selling point would be writing software that would provide an online review environment in which the SMEs could make tracked changes to my document, and I could then accept or change or ignore their changes at my leisure. I do not see that Flare provides an online review environment for SMEs. Framemaker 8 did not provide this. I am not familiar with Frame 9. Could anyone offer any guidance on this? Thanks. best, Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as feimin.lorente at onsemi.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/feimin.lorente%40ons emi.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Flare vs Frame
There is no native CHM conversion, merely save as HTML. You *can* save as HTML and then create all of your TOC/IX/keyword files, manage map IDs, and then compile it all outside of FM using HTML Help Workshop or another product with the compiler, but you also might have better uses of your time. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Fei Min Lorente wrote: > Yes, you can go from FrameMaker to .chm files, but I would recommend > using something like Mif2Go or WebWorks ePublisher because the native > FrameMaker conversion has never been that robust. However, Adobe just > released FrameMaker 10, so maybe it's better. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
Flare vs Frame
> No, you can't. ?You could use Mif2Go (our product, > for $295), or ePublisher (for way more), directly with > the Frame files. ?Other apps, like Flare and Robo, > import the Frame files instead, which means lots > more work for every revision. ?Robo claims to "link", > but see what its users have to say about that on: > ?http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users > and decide for yourself. FWIW, I've used linking between RH & FM with little issue. The only issue I found was with regard to conditional text, which I documented on my blog. http://techcommdood.com/2010/06/03/using-conditional-text-in-adobe-technical-communication-suite-2/ That said, I still feel that Mif2Go and ePublisher outshine other offerings with regard to single-sourcing from FrameMaker. Though, it'll be interesting to see what's truly under the hood of TCS3. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
Flare vs Frame
You can still buy Frame 8 using a special kind of licensing I can't think of now, maybe volume licensing. Search the Adobe Forum; you'll find it. On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Writer wrote: >> >I believe that I can go from Frame to .chm. >> >> No, you can't.? You could use Mif2Go (our product, >> for $295), or ePublisher (for way more) > > WebWorks ePublisher can also process Word files, if you decide to stick with > Word. It can also process a mix of Word, FM, and XML files. > > Nadine > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com
