Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Steve Rickaby]

I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.

I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.

So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, 
FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
-- 
Steve
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Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Matt Sullivan]

First off, I'm glad you found a workaround.

EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I 
still wonder what the main issue is.


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk 
wrote:

 I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
 effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.
 
 I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.
 
 So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop 
 shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF 
 generation.
 
 Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
 -- 
 Steve
 ___
 
 
 You are currently subscribed to framers as m...@mattrsullivan.com.
 
 Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
 
 To unsubscribe send a blank email to
 framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
 or visit 
 http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com
 
 Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
 http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

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Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[David Creamer]

By me, in Illustrator (CS2).

I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.

Coming into this late, but I believe this is an Illustrator issue, which has
been solved with newer versions.
InDesign used to have the same problem: PDF and AI would generate 4 seps
even for black-only images; EPS would work properly.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.ideastraining.com
Adobe Authorized Instructor  Certified Expert since 1995
Authorized QuarkXPress Instructor and Certified Expert since 1988



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RE: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Dov Isaacs]

EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options - not 
really!

Illustrator files input into FrameMaker depend on the Illustrator file being 
saved with PDF compatibility. It is the PDF that FrameMaker really deals with 
in that file, not the actual private Illustrator information.

For PDF files (and thus Illustrator files) imported into a FrameMaker document, 
the PDF content is converted internally into EPS and a high resolution 
preview is created from the PDF.

If importing EPS worked, but importing PDF didn't and the original artwork 
contained live transparency (as in drop shadows, etc.), then the difference 
would be that when creating EPS from Illustrator, transparency is flattened 
immediately since PostScript doesn't support live transparency at all! The PDF 
probably still had the live transparency which should have been properly 
flattened when the PDF was imported and internal EPS was created. If this 
happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) repeat the 
problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to report this 
as a serious bug.

- Dov

[cid:image001.png@01CE1FFF.81A419E0]

Dov Isaacs
Principal Scientist
Adobe Systems Incorporated

+1 408.536.2896 (tel)
+1 408.242.5161 (cell)
isa...@adobe.commailto:isa...@adobe.com

345 Park Avenue
San Jose, CA  95110-2704 USA
http://www.adobe.comhttp://www.adobe.com/






Feel free to print this e-mail if your needs dictate hard copy.
There is no need to feel guilty about printing!
Paper is renewable and recyclable.

ISAACS-OFFICE.corp.adobe.com



From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:04 AM
To: Steve Rickaby
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

First off, I'm glad you found a workaround.

EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I 
still wonder what the main issue is.

-Matt

Matt Sullivan
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivanhttp://twitter.com/mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840

On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby 
srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.ukmailto:srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk 
wrote:


I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.

I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.

So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, 
FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
--
Steve


inline: image001.png___


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Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Steve Rickaby]

At 11:52 -0700 13/3/13, David Creamer wrote:

Coming into this late, but I believe this is an Illustrator issue, which has
been solved with newer versions. InDesign used to have the same problem: PDF 
and AI would generate 4 seps even for black-only images; EPS would work 
properly.

That would certainly explain it. This could be that was the problem that lead 
me to send a pre-press file off to be cleaned up by Acrobat 9 couple of years 
back.

-- 
Steve
___


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Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Matt Sullivan]

Ahh, I thought a bcc to Dov might elicit a response! Thx Dov, for clarifying!


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Dov Isaacs isa...@adobe.com wrote:

 EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options – 
 not really!
  
 Illustrator files input into FrameMaker depend on the Illustrator file being 
 saved with PDF compatibility. It is the PDF that FrameMaker really deals with 
 in that file, not the actual private Illustrator information.
  
 For PDF files (and thus Illustrator files) imported into a FrameMaker 
 document, the PDF content is converted internally into EPS and a high 
 resolution “preview” is created from the PDF.
  
 If importing EPS worked, but importing PDF didn’t and the original artwork 
 contained live transparency (as in drop shadows, etc.), then the difference 
 would be that when creating EPS from Illustrator, transparency is flattened 
 immediately since PostScript doesn’t support live transparency at all! The 
 PDF probably still had the live transparency which should have been properly 
 flattened when the PDF was imported and internal EPS was created. If this 
 happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) repeat 
 the problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to report 
 this as a serious bug.
  
 - Dov
  
 image001.png
 Dov Isaacs
 Principal Scientist
 Adobe Systems Incorporated
 +1 408.536.2896 (tel)
 +1 408.242.5161 (cell)
 isa...@adobe.com
 345 Park Avenue
 San Jose, CA  95110-2704 USA
 http://www.adobe.com
  
  
 Feel free to print this e-mail if your needs dictate hard copy.
 There is no need to feel guilty about printing!
 Paper is renewable and recyclable.
  
 ISAACS-OFFICE.corp.adobe.com
  
  
  
 From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com] 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:04 AM
 To: Steve Rickaby
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
  
 First off, I'm glad you found a workaround.
  
 EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so 
 I still wonder what the main issue is.
  
 
 -Matt
  
 Matt Sullivan 
 technical communication | online training | eLearning
 
 twitter: @mattrsullivan
 phone: 714 960-6840 
  
 On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk 
 wrote:
 
 
 I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
 effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.
 
 I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.
 
 So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop 
 shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF 
 generation.
 
 Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
 -- 
 Steve
 

___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
or visit 
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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Steve Rickaby]

I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.

I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.

So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, 
FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
-- 
Steve

FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Matt Sullivan]

First off, I'm glad you found a workaround.

EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I 
still wonder what the main issue is.


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby  wrote:

> I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
> effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.
> 
> I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.
> 
> So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop 
> shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF 
> generation.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
> -- 
> Steve
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as matt at mattrsullivan.com.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/matt%40mattrsullivan.com
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

-- next part --
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FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[David Creamer]

>>By me, in Illustrator (CS2).

>I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.

Coming into this late, but I believe this is an Illustrator issue, which has
been solved with newer versions.
InDesign used to have the same problem: PDF and AI would generate 4 seps
even for black-only images; EPS would work properly.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.ideastraining.com
Adobe Authorized Instructor & Certified Expert since 1995
Authorized QuarkXPress Instructor and Certified Expert since 1988

FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Dov Isaacs]

EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options - not 
really!

Illustrator files input into FrameMaker depend on the Illustrator file being 
saved with PDF compatibility. It is the PDF that FrameMaker really deals with 
in that file, not the actual private Illustrator information.

For PDF files (and thus Illustrator files) imported into a FrameMaker document, 
the PDF content is converted internally into EPS and a high resolution 
"preview" is created from the PDF.

If importing EPS worked, but importing PDF didn't and the original artwork 
contained live transparency (as in drop shadows, etc.), then the difference 
would be that when creating EPS from Illustrator, transparency is flattened 
immediately since PostScript doesn't support live transparency at all! The PDF 
probably still had the live transparency which should have been properly 
flattened when the PDF was imported and internal EPS was created. If this 
happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) repeat the 
problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to report this 
as a serious bug.

- Dov

[cid:image001.png at 01CE1FFF.81A419E0]

Dov Isaacs
Principal Scientist
Adobe Systems Incorporated

+1 408.536.2896 (tel)
+1 408.242.5161 (cell)
isaacs at adobe.com<mailto:isaacs at adobe.com>

345 Park Avenue
San Jose, CA  95110-2704 USA
http://www.adobe.com<http://www.adobe.com/>






Feel free to print this e-mail if your needs dictate hard copy.
There is no need to feel guilty about printing!
Paper is renewable and recyclable.

ISAACS-OFFICE.corp.adobe.com



From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:04 AM
To: Steve Rickaby
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

First off, I'm glad you found a workaround.

EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so I 
still wonder what the main issue is.

-Matt

Matt Sullivan
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan<http://twitter.com/mattrsullivan>
phone: 714 960-6840

On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby mailto:srickaby at wordmongers.demon.co.uk>> wrote:


I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.

I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.

So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop shadows, 
FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF generation.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
--
Steve


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FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Steve Rickaby]

At 11:52 -0700 13/3/13, David Creamer wrote:

>Coming into this late, but I believe this is an Illustrator issue, which has
>been solved with newer versions. InDesign used to have the same problem: PDF 
>and AI would generate 4 seps even for black-only images; EPS would work 
>properly.

That would certainly explain it. This could be that was the problem that lead 
me to send a pre-press file off to be cleaned up by Acrobat 9 couple of years 
back.

-- 
Steve

FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Steve Rickaby]

At 15:29 -0700 13/3/13, Dov Isaacs wrote:

> If this happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) 
> repeat the problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to 
> report this as a serious bug.

Thanks Dov. No... I'm on ancient versions here, Acrobat Pro 6 and FrameMaker 7 
for Mac, just waiting for Apple to produce a new Mac Pro before I give Adobe 
loadsa' dosh. I've already bought a FrameMaker cross-grade, just don't have a 
machine to run it on yet.

David Creamer's explanation makes a lot of sense, and it could quite easily be 
the reason that I had a pre-press nightmare with drop shadows on a previous 
book.

-- 
Steve

FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update

[Matt Sullivan]

Ahh, I thought a bcc to Dov might elicit a response! Thx Dov, for clarifying!


-Matt

Matt Sullivan 
technical communication | online training | eLearning

twitter: @mattrsullivan
phone: 714 960-6840 

On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Dov Isaacs  wrote:

> EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options ? 
> not really!
>  
> Illustrator files input into FrameMaker depend on the Illustrator file being 
> saved with PDF compatibility. It is the PDF that FrameMaker really deals with 
> in that file, not the actual private Illustrator information.
>  
> For PDF files (and thus Illustrator files) imported into a FrameMaker 
> document, the PDF content is converted internally into EPS and a high 
> resolution ?preview? is created from the PDF.
>  
> If importing EPS worked, but importing PDF didn?t and the original artwork 
> contained live transparency (as in drop shadows, etc.), then the difference 
> would be that when creating EPS from Illustrator, transparency is flattened 
> immediately since PostScript doesn?t support live transparency at all! The 
> PDF probably still had the live transparency which should have been properly 
> flattened when the PDF was imported and internal EPS was created. If this 
> happened with the current FrameMaker release and you are able to (1) repeat 
> the problem and (2) share the files with Adobe, I would advise you to report 
> this as a serious bug.
>  
> - Dov
>  
> 
> Dov Isaacs
> Principal Scientist
> Adobe Systems Incorporated
> +1 408.536.2896 (tel)
> +1 408.242.5161 (cell)
> isaacs at adobe.com
> 345 Park Avenue
> San Jose, CA  95110-2704 USA
> http://www.adobe.com
>  
>  
> Feel free to print this e-mail if your needs dictate hard copy.
> There is no need to feel guilty about printing!
> Paper is renewable and recyclable.
>  
> ISAACS-OFFICE.corp.adobe.com
>  
>  
>  
> From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:matt at mattrsullivan.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:04 AM
> To: Steve Rickaby
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: FrameMaker-specific preflight problem: update
>  
> First off, I'm glad you found a workaround.
>  
> EPS, AI, and PDF are all essentially the same file with different options, so 
> I still wonder what the main issue is.
>  
> 
> -Matt
>  
> Matt Sullivan 
> technical communication | online training | eLearning
> 
> twitter: @mattrsullivan
> phone: 714 960-6840 
>  
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 3:57 AM, Steve Rickaby  wordmongers.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> I tried ensuring that the drop shadow was created by a filer rather than an 
> effect, and imported the illustration as a PDF. The problem remained.
> 
> I then tried importing as an .eps: problem fixed.
> 
> So it seems to be specific to an interaction between Illustrator drop 
> shadows, FrameMaker's importing of PDF files, and FrameMaker's subsequent PDF 
> generation.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who responded to this.
> -- 
> Steve
> 

-- next part --
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