subject:"Minor typos and the QA guy\/scrummaster"

Thanks, Jeff 

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: Jeff Coatsworth jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com 
To: framers framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM 
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy  paste the offending section into an e-mail  fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM. 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
jackdel...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM 
To: framers 
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Hello, Framers - 

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs. 

I’ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too. 

What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my “source”, but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 

Thanks 

Jack DeLand 
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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Depends on the output! :) 

- Original Message -
From: Jeff Coatsworth jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com 
To: framers framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:35:01 AM 
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

If all your content is in FM, then you're already single-sourcing it you know 
;) 

From: jackdel...@comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:27 AM 
To: Jeff Coatsworth 
Cc: framers 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Thanks, Jeff 

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: Jeff Coatsworth jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com 
To: framers framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM 
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy  paste the offending section into an e-mail  fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM. 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
jackdel...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM 
To: framers 
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Hello, Framers - 

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs. 

I’ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too. 

What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my “source”, but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 

Thanks 

Jack DeLand 
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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

I think #2 would be the most convincing for him. We are big on security. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: Lin Sims ljsims...@gmail.com 
To: jackdel...@comcast.net 
Cc: framers framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:42:01 AM 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Well, let's see, off the top of my head: 

1. Word2013 isn't available yet, so it's going to be hard for your 
developers to make use of it anytime soon. Not only that, but 
according to one article, it won't work on any OS prior to Windows 7. 

2. From the article I saw on PCWorld, when it IS available, you've got 
the issue with it defaulting to saving out to Microsoft's 
Skydrive--does your scrum master, much less your company, really want 
to put its IP out in the cloud? Particularly a cloud they don't 
control? I've seen no mention (so far, but admittedly I haven't been 
looking) that Microsoft has addressed the corporate customer's need 
for security and IP control and the likelihood that they'll want to 
keep things on their own storage network. 

3. Tell him you'll let him and his developers edit your source when he 
lets you edit theirs. ;-) 

4. Point out to him that each profession has specialized tools to make 
things easier and more efficient, and ask him if he thinks correcting 
some minor typos is worth handicapping you. Tell him that his trying 
to get you to work in Word rather than Frame is like you telling him 
that his developers should all be working in Notepad rather than in an 
IDE. 

OK, #3 is a bit snarky, so unless you know him really well, I wouldn't 
try it. My bet is on #4, but I'm betting there are others on this list 
who can give you more cogent arguments. 

Good luck with it. (As an aside, what IS it with people who don't work 
as writers trying to tell writers what tools they should be using?) 

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM, jackdel...@comcast.net wrote: 
 Hello, Framers - 

 My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes 
 longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that 
 bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 
 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to 
 be able to do this to my docs. 

 I’ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still 
 searching for an answer, which means I am too. 

 What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
 non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should 
 not be allowed anywhere near my “source”, but the reality is that he has 
 more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 

 Thanks 

 Jack DeLand 

 ___ 

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 Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. 

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-- 
Lin Sims 
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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-19 Thread Marguerite Krupp

Your expert can already edit your docs in pdf if he has the full Adobe 
Acrobat Pro Extended. Or even with Reader if you enable commenting in your pdf. 
The tools are pretty good. Maybe he just needs some education in how to use 
them.


The real issue is whether you want to allow others to make changes to your 
document. If they can make changes, those changes should be identified by 
content, date, and author, so you have some traceback. Otherwise, you'll have 
to run pdf comparisons all over the place.

My pet peeve in this regard is experts who have their own pet ways of 
spelling certain words, and anything else, even standard English usage, is a 
typo. I worked for one guy once whose wife was an editor, and he insisted 
that I insert double spaces after the period at the end of every sentence. 
Anything else, he insisted, was a typo.

FWIW,
Marguerite




 From: Lin Sims ljsims...@gmail.com
To: jackdel...@comcast.net 
Cc: framers framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster
 
To be fair, you CAN save it elsewhere, and it's probable that you can
set the options to a different default.

But Microsoft making their cloud the default out of the box kinda worries me.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:06 AM,  jackdel...@comcast.net wrote:
 I think #2 would be the most convincing for him. We are big on security.

 Jack

 
 From: Lin Sims ljsims...@gmail.com
 To: jackdel...@comcast.net
 Cc: framers framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:42:01 AM

 Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

 Well, let's see, off the top of my head:

 1. Word2013 isn't available yet, so it's going to be hard for your
 developers to make use of it anytime soon. Not only that, but
 according to one article, it won't work on any OS prior to Windows 7.

 2. From the article I saw on PCWorld, when it IS available, you've got
 the issue with it defaulting to saving out to Microsoft's
 Skydrive--does your scrum master, much less your company, really want
 to put its IP out in the cloud? Particularly a cloud they don't
 control? I've seen no mention (so far, but admittedly I haven't been
 looking) that Microsoft has addressed the corporate customer's need
 for security and IP control and the likelihood that they'll want to
 keep things on their own storage network.

 3. Tell him you'll let him and his developers edit your source when he
 lets you edit theirs. ;-)

 4. Point out to him that each profession has specialized tools to make
 things easier and more efficient, and ask him if he thinks correcting
 some minor typos is worth handicapping you. Tell him that his trying
 to get you to work in Word rather than Frame is like you telling him
 that his developers should all be working in Notepad rather than in an
 IDE.

 OK, #3 is a bit snarky, so unless you know him really well, I wouldn't
 try it. My bet is on #4, but I'm betting there are others on this list
 who can give you more cogent arguments.

 Good luck with it. (As an aside, what IS it with people who don't work
 as writers trying to tell writers what tools they should be using?)

 On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM,  jackdel...@comcast.net wrote:
 Hello, Framers -

 My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
 longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution
 that
 bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word
 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers
 to
 be able to do this to my docs.



 I’ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
 searching for an answer, which means I am too.



 What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a
 non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers
 should
 not be allowed anywhere near my “source”, but the reality is that he has
 more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).



 Thanks



 Jack DeLand


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 --
 Lin Sims



-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

I think maybe a summary rather than a link to ALL the comments here. ;-) 

- Original Message -
From: Peter Courlis neat_g...@yahoo.com 
To: Mike Wickham i...@mikewickham.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:12:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Hello 
Wonderful stimulating discussion on Typos and handling PDF's . 

Be sure to send a Link, to the Scrum Master, for Framers@lists.frameusers.com 
... 
For he is about to learn some new things ... 

A Nuebie 

From: Mike Wickham i...@mikewickham.com 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:53 AM 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

 He wants a solution that bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an 
 article that says Word 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He 
 wants the developers to be able to do this to my docs. 

Ignoring the fact that Microsoft is famous for talking about features in future 
products that never actually make it into the release, or that possible release 
dates are rarely met, doesn't your QA guy realize that PDFs don't store 
information the same way as normal documents? They don't necessarily store 
paragraphs as paragraphs or even store words as words-- but may store them as 
separate groupings of letters. And elements on the PDF page aren't necessarily 
generated in the order you expect. ( See page 25 of the PDF at this link: 
http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/pdf2k/02E/gstaas_howpdfworks.pdf .) 
(I've seen a better explanation of this somewhere, but couldn't find it.) 

So any program that reads a PDF takes its best guess in reconstituting text 
back into words and paragraphs. In other words, what you see in the PDF may not 
be what you get in the converted Word doc, nor in the regenerated PDF. I found 
this description of the Word 2013 PDF editing feature to back that up: 

With Word 2013, you can convert a PDF document into a Word document and edit 
the content. 
To convert a PDF, you open it like you would any other document. 

1. Click File  Open  Browse . 
2. Find the PDF and click Open . 

The converted document might not have a perfect page to page correspondence 
with the original. The conversion works best with mostly textual documents. 

Notice that last part. The converted document might not have a perfect page to 
page correspondence with the original. The conversion works best with mostly 
textual documents. In other words, prepare for problems. Expect to lose your 
previous formatting. Unless you are editing simple business letters or novels, 
problems are pretty much guaranteed. (Here's the link: 
http://www.liveside.net/2012/06/29/exclusive-microsoft-word-2013-to-support-built-in-pdf-editing/
 .) 

PDFs are meant to be final output only. To fix typos in a PDF, the standard 
procedure is to fix the source file and regenerate a corrected PDF. (If you 
don't fix the source, the typo just reappears the next time an updated PDF is 
generated.) 

Mike Wickham 

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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-19 Thread Marguerite Krupp

Not to be too picky, but why is the ScrumMaster, whose role is to be a 
facilitator, getting tied in knots over typos? That's not his role in a true 
Agile environment.

Just a thought!
Marguerite
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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Hi there - 

I believe he sees it as a defect which must be corrected, ergo, his problem (he 
is in an Agile role but in a QA headspace, so to speak). 

BTW, there seems to be a one-day delay between my writing to the list, and the 
post actually appearing. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: Marguerite Krupp mkrupp...@yahoo.com 
To: jackdel...@comcast.net, framers framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:13:08 AM 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 




Not to be too picky, but why is the ScrumMaster, whose role is to be a 
facilitator, getting tied in knots over typos? That's not his role in a true 
Agile environment. 

Just a thought! 
Marguerite 
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-19 Thread Marguerite Krupp

Not to be too picky, but why is the ScrumMaster, whose role is to be a 
facilitator, getting tied in knots over typos? That's not his role in a true 
Agile environment.

Just a thought!
Marguerite
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-19 Thread jackdel...@comcast.net

Hi there - 

I believe he sees it as a defect which must be corrected, ergo, his problem (he 
is in an Agile role but in a QA headspace, so to speak). 

BTW, there seems to be a one-day delay between my writing to the list, and the 
post actually appearing. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: "Marguerite Krupp" <mkrupp...@yahoo.com> 
To: jackdeland at comcast.net, "framers"  
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:13:08 AM 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 




Not to be too picky, but why is the ScrumMaster, whose role is to be a 
facilitator, getting tied in knots over typos? That's not his role in a true 
Agile environment. 

Just a thought! 
Marguerite 
-- next part --
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread jackdeland



Hello, Framers - 

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs. 



I’ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too. 



What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my “source”, but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 



Thanks 



Jack DeLand___


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RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy  paste the offending section into an e-mail  fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM.


From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
jackdel...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM
To: framers
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Hello, Framers -

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs.

I've explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too.

What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my source, but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

Thanks

Jack DeLand
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Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Peter Courlis

Hello
Wonderful stimulating discussion on Typos and handling PDF's .

Be sure to send a Link, to the Scrum Master, for Framers@lists.frameusers.com 
...
For he is about to learn some new things ...

A Nuebie




 From: Mike Wickham i...@mikewickham.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster
 

 He wants a solution that bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an 
 article that says Word 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He 
 wants the developers to be able to do this to my docs.


Ignoring the fact that Microsoft is famous for talking about
  features in future products that never actually make it into the
  release, or that possible release dates are rarely met, doesn't
  your QA guy realize that PDFs don't store information the same way
  as normal documents? They don't necessarily store paragraphs as
  paragraphs or even store words as words-- but may store them as
  separate groupings of letters. And elements on the PDF page aren't 
necessarily generated in the order you expect. (See page 25 of the PDF at this 
link: 
http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/pdf2k/02E/gstaas_howpdfworks.pdf.) 
(I've seen a better explanation of this somewhere, but couldn't find it.)

So any program that reads a PDF takes its best guess in
  reconstituting text back into words and paragraphs. In other
  words, what you see in the PDF may not be what you get in the
  converted Word doc, nor in the regenerated PDF.  I found this
  description of the Word 2013 PDF editing feature to back that up:


With Word 2013, you can convert a PDF document into a Word document and edit 
the content. 
To convert a PDF, you open it like you would any other document.
1. Click File  Open  Browse. 
2. Find the PDF and click Open.
The converted document might not have a perfect page to page correspondence 
with the original. The conversion works best with mostly textual documents.


Notice that last part. The converted document might not have a
perfect page to page correspondence with the original. The
conversion works best with mostly textual documents. In other
words, prepare for problems. Expect to lose your previous
formatting. Unless you are editing simple business letters or
novels, problems are pretty much guaranteed. (Here's the link: 
http://www.liveside.net/2012/06/29/exclusive-microsoft-word-2013-to-support-built-in-pdf-editing/.)

PDFs are meant to be final output only. To fix typos in a PDF, the standard 
procedure is to fix the source file and regenerate a corrected PDF. (If you 
don't fix the source, the typo just reappears the next time an updated PDF is 
generated.)

Mike Wickham

 
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RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread David Creamer

As suggested

Using a PDF review cycle, either by email or server-based, should work. All
the proof-readers need to do is use the free Adobe Reader to use the insert,
delete, and replace text tools for 90% of edits (certainly for typos).
Review comments in Acrobat Pro and then import the comments back into the
Frame document (with track changes turned). One last review of track changes
in Frame and you are (mostly) done. 

If you content is supplied in Word from the SMEs, use the Word review cycle
in either native Word format or as PDF (same basic process as Frame) before
it is ever placed in Frame. Rinse and repeat as many times as necessary
before placing in Frame. Incoming text should be reasonably clean at that
point. Anyone asking for major rewrites _after_ it is in Frame is not doing
their proofing job when t is supposed to  e done, and should be called on it
during committee meetings*.

*This workflow is something that should be set in policy beforehand--that
way it is easy for everyone to agree to it in principle. Make sure the worst
offenders of major rewrites agree to the policy in front of everyone; that
makes it harder for them to ignore the policy later one. 


David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.ideastraining.com
Adobe Authorized Instructor  Certified Expert since 1995
Authorized QuarkXPress Instructor and Certified Expert since 1988




**
My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that
bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word
2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to
be able to do this to my docs. 

I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
searching for an answer, which means I am too. 

What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should
not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has
more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 


___


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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy & paste the offending section into an e-mail & fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM.


From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of jackdel...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM
To: framers
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Hello, Framers -

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs.

I've explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too.

What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my "source", but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

Thanks

Jack DeLand
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

If all your content is in FM, then you're already "single-sourcing" it you know 
;>)

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:27 AM
To: Jeff Coatsworth
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Thanks, Jeff

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do.

Jack

From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com>
To: "framers" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy & paste the offending section into an e-mail & fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM.

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of jackdel...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM
To: framers
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Hello, Framers -

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs.

I've explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too.

What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my "source", but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

Thanks

Jack DeLand

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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Lin Sims

Well, let's see, off the top of my head:

1. Word2013 isn't available yet, so it's going to be hard for your
developers to make use of it anytime soon. Not only that, but
according to one article, it won't work on any OS prior to Windows 7.

2. From the article I saw on PCWorld, when it IS available, you've got
the issue with it defaulting to saving out to Microsoft's
Skydrive--does your scrum master, much less your company, really want
to put its IP out in the cloud? Particularly a cloud they don't
control? I've seen no mention (so far, but admittedly I haven't been
looking) that Microsoft has addressed the corporate customer's need
for security and IP control and the likelihood that they'll want to
keep things on their own storage network.

3. Tell him you'll let him and his developers edit your source when he
lets you edit theirs. ;-)

4. Point out to him that each profession has specialized tools to make
things easier and more efficient, and ask him if he thinks correcting
some minor typos is worth handicapping you. Tell him that his trying
to get you to work in Word rather than Frame is like you telling him
that his developers should all be working in Notepad rather than in an
IDE.

OK, #3 is a bit snarky, so unless you know him really well, I wouldn't
try it. My bet is on #4, but I'm betting there are others on this list
who can give you more cogent arguments.

Good luck with it. (As an aside, what IS it with people who don't work
as writers trying to tell writers what tools they should be using?)

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM,   wrote:
> Hello, Framers -
>
> My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
> longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that
> bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word
> 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to
> be able to do this to my docs.
>
>
>
> I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
> searching for an answer, which means I am too.
>
>
>
> What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a
> non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should
> not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has
> more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Jack DeLand
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims.ML at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

-- 
Lin Sims

Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Mike Wickham

> He wants a solution that bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has
read an article that says Word 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native
format. He wants the developers to be able to do this to my docs.
>

Ignoring the fact that Microsoft is famous for talking about features in
future products that never actually make it into the release, or that
possible release dates are rarely met, doesn't your QA guy realize that
PDFs don't store information the same way as normal documents? They
don't necessarily store paragraphs as paragraphs or even store words as
words-- but may store them as separate groupings of letters. And
elements on the PDF page aren't necessarily generated in the order you
expect. (See page 25 of the PDF at this link:
http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/pdf2k/02E/gstaas_howpdfworks.pdf.)
(I've seen a better explanation of this somewhere, but couldn't find it.)

So any program that reads a PDF takes its best guess in reconstituting
text back into words and paragraphs. In other words, what you see in the
PDF may not be what you get in the converted Word doc, nor in the
regenerated PDF. I found this description of the Word 2013 PDF editing
feature to back that up:

With Word 2013, you can convert a PDF document into a Word document and
edit the content.

To convert a PDF, you open it like you would any other document.

1. Click *File* > *Open* > *Browse*.
2. Find the PDF and click *Open*.

The converted document might not have a perfect page to page
correspondence with the original. The conversion works best with mostly
textual documents.

Notice that last part. "The converted document might not have a perfect
page to page correspondence with the original. The conversion works best
with mostly textual documents." In other words, prepare for problems.
Expect to lose your previous formatting. Unless you are editing simple
business letters or novels, problems are pretty much guaranteed. (Here's
the link:
http://www.liveside.net/2012/06/29/exclusive-microsoft-word-2013-to-support-built-in-pdf-editing/.)

PDFs are meant to be final output only. To fix typos in a PDF, the
standard procedure is to fix the source file and regenerate a corrected
PDF. (If you don't fix the source, the typo just reappears the next time
an updated PDF is generated.)

Mike Wickham

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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Lin Sims

To be fair, you CAN save it elsewhere, and it's probable that you can
set the options to a different default.

But Microsoft making their cloud the default out of the box kinda worries me.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:06 AM,   wrote:
> I think #2 would be the most convincing for him. We are big on security.
>
> Jack
>
> 
> From: "Lin Sims" 
> To: jackdeland at comcast.net
> Cc: "framers" 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:42:01 AM
>
> Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster
>
> Well, let's see, off the top of my head:
>
> 1. Word2013 isn't available yet, so it's going to be hard for your
> developers to make use of it anytime soon. Not only that, but
> according to one article, it won't work on any OS prior to Windows 7.
>
> 2. From the article I saw on PCWorld, when it IS available, you've got
> the issue with it defaulting to saving out to Microsoft's
> Skydrive--does your scrum master, much less your company, really want
> to put its IP out in the cloud? Particularly a cloud they don't
> control? I've seen no mention (so far, but admittedly I haven't been
> looking) that Microsoft has addressed the corporate customer's need
> for security and IP control and the likelihood that they'll want to
> keep things on their own storage network.
>
> 3. Tell him you'll let him and his developers edit your source when he
> lets you edit theirs. ;-)
>
> 4. Point out to him that each profession has specialized tools to make
> things easier and more efficient, and ask him if he thinks correcting
> some minor typos is worth handicapping you. Tell him that his trying
> to get you to work in Word rather than Frame is like you telling him
> that his developers should all be working in Notepad rather than in an
> IDE.
>
> OK, #3 is a bit snarky, so unless you know him really well, I wouldn't
> try it. My bet is on #4, but I'm betting there are others on this list
> who can give you more cogent arguments.
>
> Good luck with it. (As an aside, what IS it with people who don't work
> as writers trying to tell writers what tools they should be using?)
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM,   wrote:
>> Hello, Framers -
>>
>> My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
>> longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution
>> that
>> bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word
>> 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers
>> to
>> be able to do this to my docs.
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
>> searching for an answer, which means I am too.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a
>> non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers
>> should
>> not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has
>> more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack DeLand
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims.ML at gmail.com.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com
>>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims



-- 
Lin Sims

Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Not in my single-sourcing world - it's write once, publish to many [output 
formats that is]

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:04 AM
To: Jeff Coatsworth
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Depends on the output!  :)

From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com>
To: "framers" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:35:01 AM
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

If all your content is in FM, then you're already "single-sourcing" it you know 
;>)

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:27 AM
To: Jeff Coatsworth
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Thanks, Jeff

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do.

Jack

From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com>
To: "framers" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy & paste the offending section into an e-mail & fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM.

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of jackdel...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM
To: framers
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Hello, Framers -

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs.

I've explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too.

What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my "source", but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

Thanks

Jack DeLand

___

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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Combs, Richard

jackdeland at comcast.net wrote:

> My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
> longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution
> that bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that
> says Word 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants
> the developers to be able to do this to my docs.

The developers should be responsible for fixing typos? Really?

Why does it take longer to document the typo than to fix it? What's the 
process? Can't it be simplified?

Is this during the technical review cycle, or what?

> I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
> searching for an answer, which means I am too.
> 
> What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a
> non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers
> should not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is
> that he has more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

You're not going to like my answer: Fix the typos before you hand the docs over 
for review. Check and re-check. Make sure there's nothing for the developers to 
focus on but the technical accuracy and clarity of the content. 

One of two things is going on here. Either you're handing off sloppily edited, 
non-spell-checked docs that contain a distracting number of "typos," or your QA 
guy is seizing on the rare glitch as an excuse to accomplish some other 
purpose: change your authoring tool, get editorial control, etc. Either way, 
I'd take it as a warning sign that some people aren't happy with your work. It 
may be the typos or it may be something bigger. 

Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-903-6372
--

Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Sure, IMHO even if you only publish to one output, you're single-sourcing - as 
long as you're not maintaining the same content in a bunch of different places, 
you're single-sourcing (see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_source_publishing).

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:21 AM
To: Jeff Coatsworth
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

If you write once and publish to only one output, I don't think you're 
"single-sourcing" by definition - you only have the potential to make that 
happen. I think we're wasting time by not doing so, but it is what it is, and I 
have been slowly dragging the company from the 80's to the 90's. They're not 
ready for single-source yet.

From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com>
To: "framers" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:13:17 AM
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Not in my single-sourcing world - it's write once, publish to many [output 
formats that is]

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:04 AM
To: Jeff Coatsworth
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Depends on the output!  :)

From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com>
To: "framers" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:35:01 AM
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

If all your content is in FM, then you're already "single-sourcing" it you know 
;>)

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:27 AM
To: Jeff Coatsworth
Cc: framers
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Thanks, Jeff

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do.

Jack

From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com>
To: "framers" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy & paste the offending section into an e-mail & fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM.

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of jackdel...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM
To: framers
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Hello, Framers -

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs.

I've explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too.

What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my "source", but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

Thanks

Jack DeLand

___

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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Bill Swallow

Server-based PDF review works. Everyone can see each other's comments. It
solves a lot of back and forth. Plop it up for a review, send the shared
link to everyone, give them a deadline, then incorporate the changes.

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM,  wrote:

> Hello, Framers -
>
> My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
> longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution
> that bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says
> Word 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the
> developers to be able to do this to my docs.
>
>
>
> I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
> searching for an answer, which means I am too.
>
>
>
> What is your solution to the problem he sees?  To me, it should be a
> non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should
> not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has
> more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).
>
>
>
> Thanks
>

-- 
Bill Swallow
Content Solutions Manager
GlobalScript, a division of LinguaLinx
http://globalscript.com
http://lingualinx.com
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Peter Courlis

Hello
Wonderful stimulating discussion on "Typos" and handling "PDF's" .

Be sure to send a Link, to the Scrum Master, for Framers at 
lists.frameusers.com ...
For he is about to learn some new things ...

A Nuebie




 From: Mike Wickham 
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster


> He wants a solution that bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an 
> article that says Word 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He 
> wants the developers to be able to do this to my docs.
>

Ignoring the fact that Microsoft is famous for talking about
  features in future products that never actually make it into the
  release, or that possible release dates are rarely met, doesn't
  your QA guy realize that PDFs don't store information the same way
  as normal documents? They don't necessarily store paragraphs as
  paragraphs or even store words as words-- but may store them as
  separate groupings of letters. And elements on the PDF page aren't 
necessarily generated in the order you expect. (See page 25 of the PDF at this 
link: 
http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/pdf2k/02E/gstaas_howpdfworks.pdf.) 
(I've seen a better explanation of this somewhere, but couldn't find it.)

So any program that reads a PDF takes its best guess in
  reconstituting text back into words and paragraphs. In other
  words, what you see in the PDF may not be what you get in the
  converted Word doc, nor in the regenerated PDF.? I found this
  description of the Word 2013 PDF editing feature to back that up:


With Word 2013, you can convert a PDF document into a Word document and edit 
the content. 
To convert a PDF, you open it like you would any other document.
1. Click File > Open > Browse. 
2. Find the PDF and click Open.
The converted document might not have a perfect page to page correspondence 
with the original. The conversion works best with mostly textual documents.


Notice that last part. "The converted document might not have a
perfect page to page correspondence with the original. The
conversion works best with mostly textual documents." In other
words, prepare for problems. Expect to lose your previous
formatting. Unless you are editing simple business letters or
novels, problems are pretty much guaranteed. (Here's the link: 
http://www.liveside.net/2012/06/29/exclusive-microsoft-word-2013-to-support-built-in-pdf-editing/.)

PDFs are meant to be final output only. To fix typos in a PDF, the standard 
procedure is to fix the source file and regenerate a corrected PDF. (If you 
don't fix the source, the typo just reappears the next time an updated PDF is 
generated.)

Mike Wickham


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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread David Creamer

As suggested

Using a PDF review cycle, either by email or server-based, should work. All
the proof-readers need to do is use the free Adobe Reader to use the insert,
delete, and replace text tools for 90% of edits (certainly for typos).
Review comments in Acrobat Pro and then import the comments back into the
Frame document (with track changes turned). One last review of track changes
in Frame and you are (mostly) done. 

If you content is supplied in Word from the SMEs, use the Word review cycle
in either native Word format or as PDF (same basic process as Frame) before
it is ever placed in Frame. Rinse and repeat as many times as necessary
before placing in Frame. Incoming text should be reasonably clean at that
point. Anyone asking for major rewrites _after_ it is in Frame is not doing
their proofing job when t is supposed to  e done, and should be called on it
during committee meetings*.

*This workflow is something that should be set in policy beforehand--that
way it is easy for everyone to agree to it in principle. Make sure the worst
offenders of major rewrites agree to the policy in front of everyone; that
makes it harder for them to ignore the policy later one. 


David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.ideastraining.com
Adobe Authorized Instructor & Certified Expert since 1995
Authorized QuarkXPress Instructor and Certified Expert since 1988




**
My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that
bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word
2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to
be able to do this to my docs. 

I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
searching for an answer, which means I am too. 

What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should
not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has
more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).

Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Thanks, Jeff 

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com> 
To: "framers"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM 
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy & paste the offending section into an e-mail & fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM. 

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of jackdel...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM 
To: framers 
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Hello, Framers - 

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs. 

I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too. 

What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 

Thanks 

Jack DeLand 
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

Depends on the output! :) 

- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com> 
To: "framers"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:35:01 AM 
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

If all your content is in FM, then you're already "single-sourcing" it you know 
;>) 

From: jackdeland at comcast.net [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:27 AM 
To: Jeff Coatsworth 
Cc: framers 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Thanks, Jeff 

Yes, it is PDF production only. I have yet to single-source all these thousands 
of pages (lone writer here). I think e-mail is the most sensible thing to do. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Coatsworth" <jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com> 
To: "framers"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:22:27 AM 
Subject: RE: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

You don't mention what format your help docs are produced in, but the 
implication is that it's PDF - I'd be inclined to encourage the typo-finder to 
copy & paste the offending section into an e-mail & fire it off to you for it 
to be fixed; that sounds like the quickest way. The other alternative is to use 
the commenting/review feature in PDFs to have them add their 2 cents worth and 
fire back the whole thing for you to import back into FM. 

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of jackdel...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:59 AM 
To: framers 
Subject: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Hello, Framers - 

My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes longer 
to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that bypasses 
the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 2013 will allow 
editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to be able to do this 
to my docs. 

I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still searching 
for an answer, which means I am too. 

What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should not 
be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has more say 
in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 

Thanks 

Jack DeLand 
___ 

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To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
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or visit 
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

I think #2 would be the most convincing for him. We are big on security. 

Jack 

- Original Message -
From: "Lin Sims" <ljsims...@gmail.com> 
To: jackdeland at comcast.net 
Cc: "framers"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:42:01 AM 
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster 

Well, let's see, off the top of my head: 

1. Word2013 isn't available yet, so it's going to be hard for your 
developers to make use of it anytime soon. Not only that, but 
according to one article, it won't work on any OS prior to Windows 7. 

2. From the article I saw on PCWorld, when it IS available, you've got 
the issue with it defaulting to saving out to Microsoft's 
Skydrive--does your scrum master, much less your company, really want 
to put its IP out in the cloud? Particularly a cloud they don't 
control? I've seen no mention (so far, but admittedly I haven't been 
looking) that Microsoft has addressed the corporate customer's need 
for security and IP control and the likelihood that they'll want to 
keep things on their own storage network. 

3. Tell him you'll let him and his developers edit your source when he 
lets you edit theirs. ;-) 

4. Point out to him that each profession has specialized tools to make 
things easier and more efficient, and ask him if he thinks correcting 
some minor typos is worth handicapping you. Tell him that his trying 
to get you to work in Word rather than Frame is like you telling him 
that his developers should all be working in Notepad rather than in an 
IDE. 

OK, #3 is a bit snarky, so unless you know him really well, I wouldn't 
try it. My bet is on #4, but I'm betting there are others on this list 
who can give you more cogent arguments. 

Good luck with it. (As an aside, what IS it with people who don't work 
as writers trying to tell writers what tools they should be using?) 

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM,  wrote: 
> Hello, Framers - 
> 
> My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes 
> longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution that 
> bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word 
> 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers to 
> be able to do this to my docs. 
> 
> 
> 
> I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still 
> searching for an answer, which means I am too. 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your solution to the problem he sees? To me, it should be a 
> non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers should 
> not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has 
> more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster). 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> 
> 
> Jack DeLand 
> 
> 
> ___ 
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims.ML at gmail.com. 
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. 
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com 
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com 
> 
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit 
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. 
> 

-- 
Lin Sims 
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Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

2012-07-18 Thread Marguerite Krupp

Your "expert" can already edit your docs in pdf if he has the full Adobe 
Acrobat Pro Extended. Or even with Reader if you enable commenting in your pdf. 
The tools are pretty good. Maybe he just needs some education in how to use 
them.


The real issue is whether you want to allow others to make changes to your 
document. If they can make changes, those changes should be identified by 
content, date, and author, so you have some traceback. Otherwise, you'll have 
to run pdf comparisons all over the place.

My pet peeve in this regard is "experts" who have their own pet ways of 
spelling certain words, and anything else, even standard English usage, is a 
"typo." I worked for one guy once whose wife was an editor, and he insisted 
that I insert double spaces after the period at the end of every sentence. 
Anything else, he insisted, was a "typo."

FWIW,
Marguerite




 From: Lin Sims 
To: jackdeland at comcast.net 
Cc: framers  
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster

To be fair, you CAN save it elsewhere, and it's probable that you can
set the options to a different default.

But Microsoft making their cloud the default out of the box kinda worries me.

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:06 AM,?  wrote:
> I think #2 would be the most convincing for him. We are big on security.
>
> Jack
>
> 
> From: "Lin Sims" 
> To: jackdeland at comcast.net
> Cc: "framers" 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:42:01 AM
>
> Subject: Re: Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster
>
> Well, let's see, off the top of my head:
>
> 1. Word2013 isn't available yet, so it's going to be hard for your
> developers to make use of it anytime soon. Not only that, but
> according to one article, it won't work on any OS prior to Windows 7.
>
> 2. From the article I saw on PCWorld, when it IS available, you've got
> the issue with it defaulting to saving out to Microsoft's
> Skydrive--does your scrum master, much less your company, really want
> to put its IP out in the cloud? Particularly a cloud they don't
> control? I've seen no mention (so far, but admittedly I haven't been
> looking) that Microsoft has addressed the corporate customer's need
> for security and IP control and the likelihood that they'll want to
> keep things on their own storage network.
>
> 3. Tell him you'll let him and his developers edit your source when he
> lets you edit theirs. ;-)
>
> 4. Point out to him that each profession has specialized tools to make
> things easier and more efficient, and ask him if he thinks correcting
> some minor typos is worth handicapping you. Tell him that his trying
> to get you to work in Word rather than Frame is like you telling him
> that his developers should all be working in Notepad rather than in an
> IDE.
>
> OK, #3 is a bit snarky, so unless you know him really well, I wouldn't
> try it. My bet is on #4, but I'm betting there are others on this list
> who can give you more cogent arguments.
>
> Good luck with it. (As an aside, what IS it with people who don't work
> as writers trying to tell writers what tools they should be using?)
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM,?  wrote:
>> Hello, Framers -
>>
>> My QA guy has a problem with chasing minor typos in our docs: it takes
>> longer to document the typo than it does to fix it. He wants a solution
>> that
>> bypasses the need for FrameMaker, and has read an article that says Word
>> 2013 will allow editing of PDFs in native format. He wants the developers
>> to
>> be able to do this to my docs.
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ve explained all the many problems with using Word, but he is still
>> searching for an answer, which means I am too.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your solution to the problem he sees?? To me, it should be a
>> non-problem, i.e., typos should not exist anyway, and the developers
>> should
>> not be allowed anywhere near my ?source?, but the reality is that he has
>> more say in it than I (he is also scrummaster).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack DeLand
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>>
>> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims.ML at gmail.com.
>>
>> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
>> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
>> or visit
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/ljsims.ml%40gmail.com
>>
>> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
>> http://w

Minor typos and the QA guy/scrummaster