RE: TOC within a chapter
At 04:58 AM 7/7/2008, Butler, wrote: >I'm considering generating the TOC to a separate file, then importing >the TOC as a text inset. > >Any thoughts on this? Darren, Are your documents structured? As Yves pointed out, updating an unstructured book does not update the local tables of contents. The problem is that if you use the same paragraph tags in all chapters, then there's no way in an unstructured document to restrict a table of contents to only one chapter. In a structured book, you can use context labels to distinguish entries for different chapters. You can therefore put the local TOCs into your book, remembering not to print them, and update them when you update the book. Or, you could have one book with the chapters and local TOCs that you use only for updating, and a second one without the local TOCs that you use for publishing. The technique is described in the following message which I sent to Framers a couple of years ago: > Since there's an ongoing thread on chapter TOCs, I thought I'd share an > idea I had recently. In a book with numerous chapters, it is a pain to > remember to generate the local TOC for each chapter. A minor tweak to the > EDD, and a slightly strained structure, allows me to build them in a > single book. > > In particular, I've defined a choice attribute on the chapter element > that serves as a code name, with arbitrary values (say, flower names), > making sure that I've defined more values than there will ever be > chapters in an actual book. The EDD then assigns context labels for each > element that I want in the chapter TOC based on the possible values of > this attribute. For example, Section, Subsection, and Subsubsection might > each have context labels Daisy, Tulip, Rose, and so forth. If I use a > generic Section element that can be nested within itself, I might give it > context labels like Daisy1, Tulip1, Rose1 for the first level, Daisy2, > Tulip2, Rose2 for the second level, etc. > > If I assign the code name Daisy to a particular chapter, I set up its > TOC to include only Section(Daisy), Subsection(Daisy), and so on. I've > used code names instead of numbers because I don't want to associate the > selection with the order of chapters in the book. With the code names, I > can reorder the chapters in the book, or add new ones in the middle > without the identification becoming confusing. I could have used a unique > ID instead of a choice attribute, but I wanted the EDD to list the values > used by the context rules that assign the context labels. >Not very efficient--FM scans every file in the book to build the TOC for >each chapter, but it works. > > In practice, I actually assigned all the context labels to the Title > element rather than the Section element. My Title element doesn't have an > ID attribute, but the Section element does. Thus, I can use the context > labels on the Title element to set up the chapter TOCs without having > them clutter up the cross-reference dialog box. I use context labels on > Section for cross-referencing. --Lynne Lynne A. Price Text Structure Consulting, Inc. Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and training [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.txstruct.com voice/fax: (510) 583-1505 cell phone: (510) 421-2284 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: TOC within a chapter
Rick has a good point here, and this brings us to the discussion about the hidden costs of (doing things manually to create and update) technical documentation and return on investment (ROI). You can do the math: 1 tech writer creating, updating and checking all the local TOCs once in 1 book (of 10 chapters on average) = minutes x $ per minute (the tech writer's rate or wage cost). Multiply this by the number of books, or by the number of updates per book. You'll have ROI after less than 10 updates (or books) already. -- Yves Barbion • Managing Director Scripto • Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor www.scripto.nu • skype: yves.barbion • T: +32 494 12 01 89 On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Rick Quatro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Darren, > > Those that won't buy FrameScript will have to settle for either manual > method: inserting cross-references to make a chapter TOC, or using Special > > > Table of Contents to generate a TOC and then import it by reference into > the > chapter. Considering the significant time savings that a script would bring > every time it is used, the "won't buy" argument doesn't make any sense to > me. Any serious FrameMaker shop should consider FrameScript as an essential > plugin, especially at the bargain price of $149/seat. > > Rick Quatro > Carmen Publishing Inc > 585-659-8267 > www.frameexpert.com > > > Unfortunately, some of my > clients do not have the FrameScript program and a few of them have no > plans to purchase it. Therefore, I need a plan "B." > I'm considering generating the TOC to a separate file, then importing > the TOC as a text inset. > > Any thoughts on this? > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: TOC within a chapter
I don't think this option will help in your case, Darren, but in structured FrameMaker, you can generate mini-TOCs very easily using the FrameSLT plug-in. > In this case, updating each chapter individually is what we want. > I didn't own a copy of FrameScript until recently, so I'll create a > script for those clients who also have FS. The rest of them will > have to import the TOC for each chapter. > > Anyone else have a 3rd option? This e-mail, and any attachments are strictly confidential and intended for the addressee(s) only. The content may also contain legal, professional or other privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by return of email, and then delete the e-mail and any attachments. You should not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on this transmission. Please ensure you have adequate virus protection before you open or detach any documents from this transmission. Advantica, Inc. is a company incorporated in Delaware with its headquarters at 600 Bent Creek Blvd., Suite 100, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050 U.S.A. Advantica Ltd. is a company registered in England and Wales with company No. 3294136 and registered office at Holywell Park, New Ashby Road, Loughborough, Leicestershire, LE11 3GR, United Kingdom. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: TOC within a chapter
A fast story: I had a client with a big manual to which we were adding stuff. Each chapter had its own TOC and the entire book had an index, TOC, LOF and LOT. Inserting cross references wasn't working because we were moving things and losing things. To get the page numbers for the entire manual correct, I had to: 1. Generate and update the entire book. 2. Manually generate each chapter TOC to get the page numbers and headings correct in the chapter TOC. This means open each chapter, generate the TOC, save and close. 3. Generate and update the entire book again to make sure the imported TOC files were all updated properly in each file. 4. Spot check to make sure step 3 didn't add pages I didn't expect and thus made the chapter level TOC out of date. 5. Possibly do steps 1 - 4 a second time. This process could take over an hour if I was trapped in steps 4 and 5. I asked Rick if he could write me a script to automate this process because it was tedious, at best. He quoted me a very fair rate that was about half what I was making on the total project. He wrote the script and gave it to me, under the theory that he could sell it to others. The moral of the story? Besides the fact that Rick is a great guy, the script saved me about 20 hours on the project. 20 hours x hourly rate... For your client, it would probably pay for Framescript and the script the first manual it's used for. sharon Sharon Burton 951-369-8590 -Original Message- To: Butler,Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: TOC within a chapter Hi Darren, Those that won't buy FrameScript will have to settle for either manual method: inserting cross-references to make a chapter TOC, or using Special > Table of Contents to generate a TOC and then import it by reference into the chapter. Considering the significant time savings that a script would bring every time it is used, the "won't buy" argument doesn't make any sense to me. Any serious FrameMaker shop should consider FrameScript as an essential plugin, especially at the bargain price of $149/seat. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Unfortunately, some of my clients do not have the FrameScript program and a few of them have no plans to purchase it. Therefore, I need a plan "B." I'm considering generating the TOC to a separate file, then importing the TOC as a text inset. Any thoughts on this? ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: TOC within a chapter
Hi Darren, Those that won't buy FrameScript will have to settle for either manual method: inserting cross-references to make a chapter TOC, or using Special > Table of Contents to generate a TOC and then import it by reference into the chapter. Considering the significant time savings that a script would bring every time it is used, the "won't buy" argument doesn't make any sense to me. Any serious FrameMaker shop should consider FrameScript as an essential plugin, especially at the bargain price of $149/seat. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com Unfortunately, some of my clients do not have the FrameScript program and a few of them have no plans to purchase it. Therefore, I need a plan "B." I'm considering generating the TOC to a separate file, then importing the TOC as a text inset. Any thoughts on this? ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: TOC within a chapter
Thanx Yves, In this case, updating each chapter individually is what we want. I didn't own a copy of FrameScript until recently, so I'll create a script for those clients who also have FS. The rest of them will have to import the TOC for each chapter. Anyone else have a 3rd option? -Original Message- From: Yves Barbion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:44 AM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: TOC within a chapter Hi Darren, yes, you can generate standalone TOCs and import them by reference into a chapter, but you'll have to update and check each chapter individually each time you add, remove or change titles in that chapter. Like Art said the ChapterTOC Framescript is the easiest but also the best solution. You can even run it on complete FM books. Cheers -- Yves Barbion • Managing Director Scripto • Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor www.scripto.nu • skype: yves.barbion • T: +32 494 12 01 89 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello fellow FrameManiacs, If you have: a. Experience with MIL-STD Work Packages. b. Experience producing documents that have a TOC within each individual chapter. Please contact me off-list, I have questions about generating and formatting the TOC. TIA, DJ Butler NG Corp ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: TOC within a chapter
Hi Darren, yes, you can generate standalone TOCs and import them by reference into a chapter, but you'll have to update and check each chapter individually each time you add, remove or change titles in that chapter. Like Art said the ChapterTOC Framescript is the easiest but also the best solution. You can even run it on complete FM books. Cheers -- Yves Barbion • Managing Director Scripto • Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor www.scripto.nu • skype: yves.barbion • T: +32 494 12 01 89 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello fellow FrameManiacs, > > > > If you have: > > a. Experience with MIL-STD Work Packages. > > b. Experience producing documents that have a TOC within each > individual chapter. > > > > Please contact me off-list, I have questions about generating and > formatting the TOC. > > > > TIA, > > DJ Butler > > NG Corp > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/yves.barbion%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: TOC within a chapter
Rick's solution is the easiest, and would be the cheapest way to
maintain these files unless you're not charging your clients.
Another standard option is to use cross-references in each chapter to
each heading you want to list.
A third way to do this is to generate a FM TOC for each chapter file
and then import that file into the parent by reference.
Art
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584
CBSS/GBHAC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Many thanx to Rick Quatro, FrameScript Apostle ('love your book) and all
> who are suggesting using a FrameScript. Unfortunately, some of my
> clients do not have the FrameScript program and a few of them have no
> plans to purchase it. Therefore, I need a plan "B."
> I'm considering generating the TOC to a separate file, then importing
> the TOC as a text inset.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butler,Darren
> J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC
> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: TOC within a chapter
>
> Hello fellow FrameManiacs,
>
>
>
> If you have:
>
> a. Experience with MIL-STD Work Packages.
>
> b. Experience producing documents that have a TOC within each
> individual chapter.
>
>
>
> Please contact me off-list, I have questions about generating and
> formatting the TOC.
>
>
>
> TIA,
>
> DJ Butler
>
> NG Corp
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40
> robins.af.mil
>
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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RE: TOC within a chapter
Many thanx to Rick Quatro, FrameScript Apostle ('love your book) and all
who are suggesting using a FrameScript. Unfortunately, some of my
clients do not have the FrameScript program and a few of them have no
plans to purchase it. Therefore, I need a plan "B."
I'm considering generating the TOC to a separate file, then importing
the TOC as a text inset.
Any thoughts on this?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butler,Darren
J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: TOC within a chapter
Hello fellow FrameManiacs,
If you have:
a. Experience with MIL-STD Work Packages.
b. Experience producing documents that have a TOC within each
individual chapter.
Please contact me off-list, I have questions about generating and
formatting the TOC.
TIA,
DJ Butler
NG Corp
___
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robins.af.mil
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