Re: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems
Randall, You wrote: I am interested in a real "auto" solution to this issue. It crops up now and then and "now" it has cropped up again. None of the tips others have left for you work for me either. I tried the plugin...but for me I might as well just remember to stick in manual breaks at the end of the process. Not much difference for me. It's not graceful, but it needs to be done. As far as I know, there is no "auto" solution that covers all aspects, but just workarounds with limited success (and some side effects). Generated files always require inspection upon re-generation, and (at the very least) adjustment of page breaks as needed. Even if all TOC items are just one line long, there is no built-in way to prevent a page break after a chapter title followed by one heading, with all the other headings placed on the following page. "Keep with next" can be applied to ChapterTitleTOC, but is not normally applied to Heading1TOC, as otherwise all Heading1 items will be one block (which may be fine in certain cases but not as a general rule). Accessible sample TOCs demonstrating undesirable page breaks can be found in the FM7.2 User Guide supplement (where the last item of Chapter 5 is placed by itself on page 4), or the FM7.2 Structure Application Developer's Guide (where Chapter 21 starts at the bottom of page 10, with one line following it). The TOC in the Structure Application Developer's Guide, set in a 2-column format, also demonstrates the problems of longer items split into two lines (several items in page 10 have a page number at the beginning of the second line). With respect to the workaround of adding non-breaking spaces to the source headings to control their line breaks in the TOC, I would like to note the potential side effect on line breaks when these headings are used as the source of cross-references (as cross-references retrieve the non-breaking spaces, and may themselves be split between lines). And even when a setup of multiple tab stops is helpful with some 2-line entries, it does not prevent the placement of text in the right side in the first line (above the page number). I find CudSpan's TOCBreaker plug-in very useful when the content is stable, and Generate/Update is needed frequently. Even though it is named TOCBreaker, it is equally useful with other types of generated files. Additional notes: -- There are some additional issues with generated files requiring post-processing or manual fixes, such as index-specific issues as well character formats retrieved by TOCs and affecting the hypertext active area, see http://www.microtype.com/hmmms.html#0305 ] -- A different design for the TOC, where entries start with page numbers on the left side, may help with the two-line items as well as offer other benefits Shlomo Perets MicroType, http://www.microtype.com Training, consulting & add-ons: FrameMaker, Structured FM and Acrobat ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems
Randall, While the plug-in was not a perfect solution, once my toc was stable, I set up the page breaks and line breaks. Then I just had to select the two menu options to have them automatically applied again. I found that much easier than redoing all the breaks manually. The only other feasible solution that I investigated was a custom script that I believe would still entail an additional step after updating the book. You can contact Rick Quatro ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you want to know more. He's the person I've used before for scripts (just a satisfied customer). ~~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC Intelligent technical communication since 1993 Technical writing, help development, FrameMaker and WebWorks Publisher conversions [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.techcomplus.com/ 303-450-9076 800-500-3144 ~~ Manager, Consulting and Independent Contracting Special Interest Group Society for Technical Communication http://www.stcsig.org/cic/index.html ~~ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Randall Larson-Maynard Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:46 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems Linda I am interested in a real "auto" solution to this issue. It crops up now and then and "now" it has cropped up again. None of the tips others have left for you work for me either. I tried the plugin...but for me I might as well just remember to stick in manual breaks at the end of the process. Not much difference for me. It's not graceful, but it needs to be done. -- Randall Larson-Maynard Senior Editor/Curriculum Coordinator UC Davis, Office of the University Registrar RLLarsonMaynard(at)UCDavis.edu 530.752.6141 Fax 530.752.0329 Google Talk, AIM, & Yahoo! IM: rlarsonmaynard -- At 11:01 PM 9/13/2006, you wrote: >Message: 16 >Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:45:12 -0600 >From: "Linda G. Gallagher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems >To: "Grant Hogarth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Framers" > >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Thanks to everyone who responded. I received lots of great ideas, but none >worked given the 6 x 9 page size and very long headings, except for the TOC >Breaker plug-in http://www.telecable.es/personales/cud/cssIndex.htm. I >installed that, played with it a bit, and got it to fix the problems. Not >totally automatic (you have to select two menu options while in the toc file >and after updating the book), but I think I can remember to that when I do >the final update. > >Thanks all for the help and thanks, Chris, wherever you are these days, for >the free plug-in that does this. > >~~ >Linda G. Gallagher >TechCom Plus, LLC >Intelligent technical communication since 1993 >Technical writing, help development, >FrameMaker and WebWorks Publisher conversions >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.techcomplus.com/ >303-450-9076 >800-500-3144 >~~ >Manager, Consulting and Independent Contracting >Special Interest Group >Society for Technical Communication >http://www.stcsig.org/cic/index.html >~~ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/lindag%40techcomplus.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems
Linda I am interested in a real "auto" solution to this issue. It crops up now and then and "now" it has cropped up again. None of the tips others have left for you work for me either. I tried the plugin...but for me I might as well just remember to stick in manual breaks at the end of the process. Not much difference for me. It's not graceful, but it needs to be done. -- Randall Larson-Maynard Senior Editor/Curriculum Coordinator UC Davis, Office of the University Registrar RLLarsonMaynard(at)UCDavis.edu 530.752.6141 Fax 530.752.0329 Google Talk, AIM, & Yahoo! IM: rlarsonmaynard -- At 11:01 PM 9/13/2006, you wrote: Message: 16 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:45:12 -0600 From: "Linda G. Gallagher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems To: "Grant Hogarth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Framers" Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thanks to everyone who responded. I received lots of great ideas, but none worked given the 6 x 9 page size and very long headings, except for the TOC Breaker plug-in http://www.telecable.es/personales/cud/cssIndex.htm. I installed that, played with it a bit, and got it to fix the problems. Not totally automatic (you have to select two menu options while in the toc file and after updating the book), but I think I can remember to that when I do the final update. Thanks all for the help and thanks, Chris, wherever you are these days, for the free plug-in that does this. ~~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC Intelligent technical communication since 1993 Technical writing, help development, FrameMaker and WebWorks Publisher conversions [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.techcomplus.com/ 303-450-9076 800-500-3144 ~~ Manager, Consulting and Independent Contracting Special Interest Group Society for Technical Communication http://www.stcsig.org/cic/index.html ~~ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems
Thanks to everyone who responded. I received lots of great ideas, but none worked given the 6 x 9 page size and very long headings, except for the TOC Breaker plug-in http://www.telecable.es/personales/cud/cssIndex.htm. I installed that, played with it a bit, and got it to fix the problems. Not totally automatic (you have to select two menu options while in the toc file and after updating the book), but I think I can remember to that when I do the final update. Thanks all for the help and thanks, Chris, wherever you are these days, for the free plug-in that does this. ~~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC Intelligent technical communication since 1993 Technical writing, help development, FrameMaker and WebWorks Publisher conversions [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.techcomplus.com/ 303-450-9076 800-500-3144 ~~ Manager, Consulting and Independent Contracting Special Interest Group Society for Technical Communication http://www.stcsig.org/cic/index.html ~~ -Original Message- From: Grant Hogarth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Framers Subject: RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems I'm coming in on the tail end of this, but one thing I use is non-breaking spaces to "clump" words together. That forces line breaks to occurr only at "normal" spaces. (I use this in my indexes as well, where needed) Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Linda G. Gallagher Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:28 PM To: Framers Subject: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems Framers, Thanks to Fred, John, and Rebecca who came to my aid, but I still am having problems with this toc. I don't have control over title lengths. I'm only doing layout on this thing. Here's what I'm getting: - Some headings just run close enough to the right margin that only the page number falls on the next line. When this happens, no matter how many tabs I add to the reference page, the page number stubbornly stays at the left side of the page. (For longer headings where some of the title text falls to the next line, the tabs do their job and the page number moves to the right.) - Some headings overlap with where the page number should be. I tried Rebecca's trick of adding a nonbreakign space to some of the heading text (in the chapter) but that forced the heading in the chapter to a fourth line, that isn't really needed. Here's something I tried, to no avail: - I created a subtitle format for the subtitle portion of the chapter title, with the idea that only the chapter title would go into the toc and the subtitle would only be in the chapter. However no matter how I tried to format these two styles, the long headings ran to a fourth line. I tried to make the chapter title a run-in heading, but with both styles right justified, the run-in thing doesn't put the text of the next style on the same line, even if there is room. Is there a way to put the toc into a table, so this would all wrap nicely into columns? Any other ideas out there? I'm tearing my hair out and have to deliver this book in final form Thursday afternoon. Thanks!!! ~~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC Intelligent technical communication since 1993 Technical writing, help development, FrameMaker and WebWorks Publisher conversions [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.techcomplus.com/ 303-450-9076 800-500-3144 ~~ Manager, Consulting and Independent Contracting Special Interest Group Society for Technical Communication http://www.stcsig.org/cic/index.html ~~ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems
I'm coming in on the tail end of this, but one thing I use is non-breaking spaces to "clump" words together. That forces line breaks to occurr only at "normal" spaces. (I use this in my indexes as well, where needed) Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Linda G. Gallagher Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:28 PM To: Framers Subject: Wrapping TOC, extra tabs not quite solving all problems Framers, Thanks to Fred, John, and Rebecca who came to my aid, but I still am having problems with this toc. I don't have control over title lengths. I'm only doing layout on this thing. Here's what I'm getting: - Some headings just run close enough to the right margin that only the page number falls on the next line. When this happens, no matter how many tabs I add to the reference page, the page number stubbornly stays at the left side of the page. (For longer headings where some of the title text falls to the next line, the tabs do their job and the page number moves to the right.) - Some headings overlap with where the page number should be. I tried Rebecca's trick of adding a nonbreakign space to some of the heading text (in the chapter) but that forced the heading in the chapter to a fourth line, that isn't really needed. Here's something I tried, to no avail: - I created a subtitle format for the subtitle portion of the chapter title, with the idea that only the chapter title would go into the toc and the subtitle would only be in the chapter. However no matter how I tried to format these two styles, the long headings ran to a fourth line. I tried to make the chapter title a run-in heading, but with both styles right justified, the run-in thing doesn't put the text of the next style on the same line, even if there is room. Is there a way to put the toc into a table, so this would all wrap nicely into columns? Any other ideas out there? I'm tearing my hair out and have to deliver this book in final form Thursday afternoon. Thanks!!! ~~ Linda G. Gallagher TechCom Plus, LLC Intelligent technical communication since 1993 Technical writing, help development, FrameMaker and WebWorks Publisher conversions [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.techcomplus.com/ 303-450-9076 800-500-3144 ~~ Manager, Consulting and Independent Contracting Special Interest Group Society for Technical Communication http://www.stcsig.org/cic/index.html ~~ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
