Re: Grayscale Images are RGB
From separate posts I will not be doing a major catalog in InDesign. That would take who knows how long. Framemaker is the best thing out there for catalogs period. I know both programs fairly well and could not make that blanket statement. I would say it depends on the catalog, personnel, and other factors. Migrating to InDesign is a *** H U G E *** task and may not be able to provide enough functionality. InDesign is fantastic in many aspects, but Framemaker definitely has its advantages and is -- for some tasks -- far superior to InDesign. There is a plug-in that can convert MIF files to ID (from dtptools.com). Of course, with any conversion, there will be some clean up work. Most people think that ID cannot work with large documents, but I was recently conversing with users that have produced documents over 2000 pages. I have a PDF that compares IDCS4, Frame 9, and Quark 8.1: http://www.ideastraining.com/PDFs/SelectingDTPprogram_v2.pdf David Creamer IDEAS Training Consultation http://www.IDEAStraining.com Adobe Certified Trainer for Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, InDesign, InCopy, FrameMaker, Dreamweaver, Premiere, GoLive, and PageMaker Authorized Quark Training Provider Enfocus PitStop, Markzware FlightCheck, FileMaker Authorized Trainer ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Grayscale Images are RGB
At 09:58 -0800 28/1/10, Dov Isaacs wrote: On the Macintosh, real grayscale TIFF came out into PostScript and hence PDF as grayscale. Other than for EPS, this never happened on Windows prior to FrameMaker 9 save as PDF without the RGB option Quite frankly, if you really need to worry about critical color and graphic arts issues and don't need certain FrameMaker creature comforts and structured document features, you might consider migrating to InDesign. I have been following this thread with a certain amount of slack-jawed wonder. A précis seems to be 'Mac FrameMaker did color right, Windows FrameMaker doesn't and may never'. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt whether Scott's looking forward to migrating his client's catalogs, with thousands of pages and millions of images, to InDesign. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Grayscale Images are RGB
I will not be doing a major catalog in InDesign. That would take who knows how long. Framemaker is the best thing out there for catalogs period. I have found, with Dov's help, that save as pdf, with the right acrobat options, is giving me true grayscale. But I know there are some concerns with this process too. I'm still doing some testing with my printer on settings as we speak. We are also testing spot color now as that is a major issue with many of my clients as they like to use it in the catalog. I was also explaining to Jacob Schaffer that if I had to tell potential customers of our software, that to make Framemaker work you have to buy this software and that software to work with our xml dump... Can you imagine how much more difficult it would be to make a sale? Most of my clients are not tech savy and buy our filemaker solution to print flyers (using InDesign) and catalogs (Framemaker) and drive an eCommerce site without them having to be experts. If it seemed this software was complicated to run then they would go else where. This is why we worked directly with Framemaker years ago to ensure our solution worked with what Adobe was providing when it came to Framemaker importing our code and allowing our clients to create a cost-effective catalog. And it still does, but since the windows-only version came out, and support when overseas, Frame has become more and more difficult to meet my customers' print needs. I have to ensure I can properly teach these folks what they need to do and expect. Thus the testing continues. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 09:58 -0800 28/1/10, Dov Isaacs wrote: On the Macintosh, real grayscale TIFF came out into PostScript and hence PDF as grayscale. Other than for EPS, this never happened on Windows prior to FrameMaker 9 save as PDF without the RGB option Quite frankly, if you really need to worry about critical color and graphic arts issues and don't need certain FrameMaker creature comforts and structured document features, you might consider migrating to InDesign. I have been following this thread with a certain amount of slack-jawed wonder. A précis seems to be 'Mac FrameMaker did color right, Windows FrameMaker doesn't and may never'. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt whether Scott's looking forward to migrating his client's catalogs, with thousands of pages and millions of images, to InDesign. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as swh...@alamark.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/swhite%40alamark.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Grayscale Images are RGB
I share your slack-jawed wonder with this. FrameMaker seems to be focused on improvements for a particular market (structured Frame, DITA, topic-based authoring), while at the same time neglecting an existing market (catalogs and books with color requirements). A baseline requirement for any page-layout program is to do color correctly (not to mention a pasteboard, paragraph rules, baseline shift, ruler guides, Don't show this again in warning dialog boxes, etc.). There is antidotal evidence that even users moving to structured authoring are moving away from FrameMaker. Because of FrameMaker's traditional strengths, I have always said that the technical and long-document publishing market is Adobe's to lose. Unfortunately, their handling of FrameMaker has been largely self-destructive. The suggestion to move to InDesign is certainly not appropriate for many large catalogs, particularly if you are using automation. While InDesign is very scriptable, its scripting performance (and performance in general) on large documents is very sluggish. I realize that Dov has nothing directly to do with FrameMaker, but I wonder if any of the FrameMaker people at Adobe read this list. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com http://www.frameexpert.com/peace/ At 09:58 -0800 28/1/10, Dov Isaacs wrote: On the Macintosh, real grayscale TIFF came out into PostScript and hence PDF as grayscale. Other than for EPS, this never happened on Windows prior to FrameMaker 9 save as PDF without the RGB option Quite frankly, if you really need to worry about critical color and graphic arts issues and don't need certain FrameMaker creature comforts and structured document features, you might consider migrating to InDesign. I have been following this thread with a certain amount of slack-jawed wonder. A précis seems to be 'Mac FrameMaker did color right, Windows FrameMaker doesn't and may never'. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt whether Scott's looking forward to migrating his client's catalogs, with thousands of pages and millions of images, to InDesign. -- Steve ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Grayscale Images are RGB
Well said Rick. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Rick Quatro wrote: I share your slack-jawed wonder with this. FrameMaker seems to be focused on improvements for a particular market (structured Frame, DITA, topic-based authoring), while at the same time neglecting an existing market (catalogs and books with color requirements). A baseline requirement for any page-layout program is to do color correctly (not to mention a pasteboard, paragraph rules, baseline shift, ruler guides, Don't show this again in warning dialog boxes, etc.). There is antidotal evidence that even users moving to structured authoring are moving away from FrameMaker. Because of FrameMaker's traditional strengths, I have always said that the technical and long-document publishing market is Adobe's to lose. Unfortunately, their handling of FrameMaker has been largely self-destructive. The suggestion to move to InDesign is certainly not appropriate for many large catalogs, particularly if you are using automation. While InDesign is very scriptable, its scripting performance (and performance in general) on large documents is very sluggish. I realize that Dov has nothing directly to do with FrameMaker, but I wonder if any of the FrameMaker people at Adobe read this list. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc. 585-659-8267 r...@frameexpert.com www.frameexpert.com http://www.frameexpert.com/peace/ At 09:58 -0800 28/1/10, Dov Isaacs wrote: On the Macintosh, real grayscale TIFF came out into PostScript and hence PDF as grayscale. Other than for EPS, this never happened on Windows prior to FrameMaker 9 save as PDF without the RGB option Quite frankly, if you really need to worry about critical color and graphic arts issues and don't need certain FrameMaker creature comforts and structured document features, you might consider migrating to InDesign. I have been following this thread with a certain amount of slack-jawed wonder. A précis seems to be 'Mac FrameMaker did color right, Windows FrameMaker doesn't and may never'. Draw your own conclusions. I doubt whether Scott's looking forward to migrating his client's catalogs, with thousands of pages and millions of images, to InDesign. -- Steve ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as swh...@alamark.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/swhite%40alamark.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Grayscale Images are RGB
At 12:57 -0500 29/1/10, Rick Quatro wrote: I realize that Dov has nothing directly to do with FrameMaker, but I wonder if any of the FrameMaker people at Adobe read this list. That Jacques guy said he did: the evangelist person. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Grayscale Images are RGB
I know you said you have all updates installed, but it'd be good if you double-checked for both FM and Acrobat. Also, are you running a full version of Acrobat, or the limited version installed by Frame? Then, because you're running under XP, have you installed the Microsoft hotfix for PostScript printers? Pretty much mandatory if you haven't -- it fixes a host of problems. http://support.microsoft.com/?id=952909 -- it applies to all PS printers, including the logical PDF. Assuming you have the Acrobat logical printer installed properly, there isn't a reason NOT to print to PS and then distill manually, although if you're printing to the logical printer (not using SaveAs), the result should be the same. (Uh, you're not using SaveAs to create the PDF, are you?) Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Scott White swh...@alamark.com wrote: I've been playing with the settings with Acrobat Distiller 9 and Framemaker 9 trying to fix my grayscale images coming out rgb. I have been sending samples to my printer and each and every sample he is telling me my text is black but the images are rgb. These are the same images we have used for years in other catalogs with them and they were fine. I have followed his step-by-step acrobat distiller settings for 9 and the results are not what I expect. He said he can convert the files for me at no charge, but I would like to find out why this is happening. I print my Frame file to the acrobat printer option. I have a specific, press-quality print setting within distiller 9 using my printers recommendation. Create the pdf. What I did in the past with older versions of Frame is I would print to postscript and then distill and generate my pdf that way. No problems. We are running this on a mac through parallels. Windows XP Pro and Framemaker 9 with all the updates. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Grayscale Images are RGB
Art Using the limited version installed by frame. I know the updates are there for frame, but will have to check the ones for acrobat and the hot fix. I will assume no. That will be a good place to start. I'm using the print option not save as. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com On Jan 28, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Art Campbell wrote: I know you said you have all updates installed, but it'd be good if you double-checked for both FM and Acrobat. Also, are you running a full version of Acrobat, or the limited version installed by Frame? Then, because you're running under XP, have you installed the Microsoft hotfix for PostScript printers? Pretty much mandatory if you haven't -- it fixes a host of problems. http://support.microsoft.com/?id=952909 -- it applies to all PS printers, including the logical PDF. Assuming you have the Acrobat logical printer installed properly, there isn't a reason NOT to print to PS and then distill manually, although if you're printing to the logical printer (not using SaveAs), the result should be the same. (Uh, you're not using SaveAs to create the PDF, are you?) Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Scott White swh...@alamark.com wrote: I've been playing with the settings with Acrobat Distiller 9 and Framemaker 9 trying to fix my grayscale images coming out rgb. I have been sending samples to my printer and each and every sample he is telling me my text is black but the images are rgb. These are the same images we have used for years in other catalogs with them and they were fine. I have followed his step-by-step acrobat distiller settings for 9 and the results are not what I expect. He said he can convert the files for me at no charge, but I would like to find out why this is happening. I print my Frame file to the acrobat printer option. I have a specific, press-quality print setting within distiller 9 using my printers recommendation. Create the pdf. What I did in the past with older versions of Frame is I would print to postscript and then distill and generate my pdf that way. No problems. We are running this on a mac through parallels. Windows XP Pro and Framemaker 9 with all the updates. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Grayscale Images are RGB
Two possibilities here ... (1) Assuming you are using the RGB option for save as PDF or printing to the Adobe PDF PostScript printer driver instance, except for images are in EPS format, all grayscale and CMYK images imported into FrameMaker will come out as RGB. FrameMaker is a GDI application except when NOT using the save as PDF without the RGB option. (2) Many images that users THINK are grayscale are actually RGB. When using the various options in Photoshop to convert a color image to black and white, unless you ALSO apply the option to convert what looks like a grayscale image to actual grayscale, you will end up with an RGB image in which for every pixel R=G=B in value. R=G=B grayscale RGB images typically do not properly print with only the K (black) channel on most devices and/or with most drivers. So, UNFORTUNATELY, with FrameMaker you have two options, both assuming that the image really is grayscale and not an R=G=B RGB image: The first option is to use save as PDF and don't select the RGB option. This only works for FrameMaker 9 and may be problematic if you run into one of the bugs associated with NOT using the RGB option. (When you don't select the RGB option, FrameMaker uses the PostScript Level 1 generator from the older UNIX versions of FrameMaker to generate PostScript for distilling. I won't comment on that further! :-( ) The second option is to open the images in question in Photoshop and resave as EPS (ASCII with TIFF header). This option also could be used to fix any R=G=B RGB grayscale images; simply convert to grayscale in Photoshop before saving as EPS. - Dov -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott White Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:55 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com List Subject: Grayscale Images are RGB I've been playing with the settings with Acrobat Distiller 9 and Framemaker 9 trying to fix my grayscale images coming out rgb. I have been sending samples to my printer and each and every sample he is telling me my text is black but the images are rgb. These are the same images we have used for years in other catalogs with them and they were fine. I have followed his step-by-step acrobat distiller settings for 9 and the results are not what I expect. He said he can convert the files for me at no charge, but I would like to find out why this is happening. I print my Frame file to the acrobat printer option. I have a specific, press-quality print setting within distiller 9 using my printers recommendation. Create the pdf. What I did in the past with older versions of Frame is I would print to postscript and then distill and generate my pdf that way. No problems. We are running this on a mac through parallels. Windows XP Pro and Framemaker 9 with all the updates. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Grayscale Images are RGB
Dov Thanks for your reply. Here's the history. We've been using these same images for years with older versions of frame without problems. These images are grayscale .tif files that we painstakingly processed over the years. More than 1,000,000 images. We have done all our catalogs with Frame, first on the mac and then of course on windows when the mac was no longer supported. I still keep my mac running classic so I can run Frame 7 just in case. So I don't think the images are in question. We first started seeing some issues arise in Framemaker 8 and it has since moved along to Framemaker 9. The print-quality PDF results with the same acrobat settings we had used in the past were no longer giving us valid results. Our printer has recently been converting our outputs to grayscale and 4-color for no charge since that was a simple fix. But for my clients who choose to use a different printer, there is a charge for this. What I have decided to do is find out why settings we used to use for Acrobat no longer work in later versions of Frame or Acrobat. I know technology changes so I need to find out what I need to do. So far I have made sure I have the latest updates for Frame 9, installed the hotfix that Art suggested on the xp drive of our iMac, and will incorporate your suggestions as well. I'm studying your first point about anything other than EPS will come out as RGB. I find that interesting that a desktop publishing software app from Adobe would not output the correct image results like InDesign. I know our .tif images were output correctly in older versions. I never had the printer give me an alert about my images before. I know we will get to the bottom of this so I can truly understand what is happening with files so I can relay that to the clients who use Framemaker with our software to print their 1,000-page catalogs. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com On Jan 28, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Dov Isaacs wrote: Two possibilities here ... (1) Assuming you are using the RGB option for save as PDF or printing to the Adobe PDF PostScript printer driver instance, except for images are in EPS format, all grayscale and CMYK images imported into FrameMaker will come out as RGB. FrameMaker is a GDI application except when NOT using the save as PDF without the RGB option. (2) Many images that users THINK are grayscale are actually RGB. When using the various options in Photoshop to convert a color image to black and white, unless you ALSO apply the option to convert what looks like a grayscale image to actual grayscale, you will end up with an RGB image in which for every pixel R=G=B in value. R=G=B grayscale RGB images typically do not properly print with only the K (black) channel on most devices and/or with most drivers. So, UNFORTUNATELY, with FrameMaker you have two options, both assuming that the image really is grayscale and not an R=G=B RGB image: The first option is to use save as PDF and don't select the RGB option. This only works for FrameMaker 9 and may be problematic if you run into one of the bugs associated with NOT using the RGB option. (When you don't select the RGB option, FrameMaker uses the PostScript Level 1 generator from the older UNIX versions of FrameMaker to generate PostScript for distilling. I won't comment on that further! :-( ) The second option is to open the images in question in Photoshop and resave as EPS (ASCII with TIFF header). This option also could be used to fix any R=G=B RGB grayscale images; simply convert to grayscale in Photoshop before saving as EPS. - Dov -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott White Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:55 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com List Subject: Grayscale Images are RGB I've been playing with the settings with Acrobat Distiller 9 and Framemaker 9 trying to fix my grayscale images coming out rgb. I have been sending samples to my printer and each and every sample he is telling me my text is black but the images are rgb. These are the same images we have used for years in other catalogs with them and they were fine. I have followed his step-by-step acrobat distiller settings for 9 and the results are not what I expect. He said he can convert the files for me at no charge, but I would like to find out why this is happening. I print my Frame file to the acrobat printer option. I have a specific, press-quality print setting within distiller 9 using my printers recommendation. Create the pdf. What I did in the past with older versions of Frame is I would print to postscript and then distill and generate my pdf that way. No problems. We are running this on a mac through parallels. Windows XP Pro and Framemaker 9 with all the
RE: Grayscale Images are RGB
On the Macintosh, real grayscale TIFF came out into PostScript and hence PDF as grayscale. Other than for EPS, this never happened on Windows prior to FrameMaker 9 save as PDF without the RGB option. Unlike InDesign which uses Adobe's internal AGM technology for directly generating PostScript and PDF, FrameMaker is still pretty much a Windows GDI client. Could FrameMaker be modified to work like InDesign? Sure, if Adobe thought that there would be enough revenue to justify same. Quite frankly, if you really need to worry about critical color and graphic arts issues and don't need certain FrameMaker creature comforts and structured document features, you might consider migrating to InDesign. The XP hotfix has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. It only fixes text handling issues. - Dov -Original Message- From: Scott White [mailto:swh...@alamark.com] Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:45 AM To: Dov Isaacs Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com List; Jason Hauman Subject: Re: Grayscale Images are RGB Dov Thanks for your reply. Here's the history. We've been using these same images for years with older versions of frame without problems. These images are grayscale .tif files that we painstakingly processed over the years. More than 1,000,000 images. We have done all our catalogs with Frame, first on the mac and then of course on windows when the mac was no longer supported. I still keep my mac running classic so I can run Frame 7 just in case. So I don't think the images are in question. We first started seeing some issues arise in Framemaker 8 and it has since moved along to Framemaker 9. The print-quality PDF results with the same acrobat settings we had used in the past were no longer giving us valid results. Our printer has recently been converting our outputs to grayscale and 4-color for no charge since that was a simple fix. But for my clients who choose to use a different printer, there is a charge for this. What I have decided to do is find out why settings we used to use for Acrobat no longer work in later versions of Frame or Acrobat. I know technology changes so I need to find out what I need to do. So far I have made sure I have the latest updates for Frame 9, installed the hotfix that Art suggested on the xp drive of our iMac, and will incorporate your suggestions as well. I'm studying your first point about anything other than EPS will come out as RGB. I find that interesting that a desktop publishing software app from Adobe would not output the correct image results like InDesign. I know our .tif images were output correctly in older versions. I never had the printer give me an alert about my images before. I know we will get to the bottom of this so I can truly understand what is happening with files so I can relay that to the clients who use Framemaker with our software to print their 1,000-page catalogs. Scott White Media Production EBC Manager Implementation Coordinator 210-704-8239 swh...@alamark.com On Jan 28, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Dov Isaacs wrote: Two possibilities here ... (1) Assuming you are using the RGB option for save as PDF or printing to the Adobe PDF PostScript printer driver instance, except for images are in EPS format, all grayscale and CMYK images imported into FrameMaker will come out as RGB. FrameMaker is a GDI application except when NOT using the save as PDF without the RGB option. (2) Many images that users THINK are grayscale are actually RGB. When using the various options in Photoshop to convert a color image to black and white, unless you ALSO apply the option to convert what looks like a grayscale image to actual grayscale, you will end up with an RGB image in which for every pixel R=G=B in value. R=G=B grayscale RGB images typically do not properly print with only the K (black) channel on most devices and/or with most drivers. So, UNFORTUNATELY, with FrameMaker you have two options, both assuming that the image really is grayscale and not an R=G=B RGB image: The first option is to use save as PDF and don't select the RGB option. This only works for FrameMaker 9 and may be problematic if you run into one of the bugs associated with NOT using the RGB option. (When you don't select the RGB option, FrameMaker uses the PostScript Level 1 generator from the older UNIX versions of FrameMaker to generate PostScript for distilling. I won't comment on that further! :-( ) The second option is to open the images in question in Photoshop and resave as EPS (ASCII with TIFF header). This option also could be used to fix any R=G=B RGB grayscale images; simply convert to grayscale in Photoshop before saving as EPS. - Dov ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list
RE: Grayscale Images are RGB
Scott, I'm quite experienced with this issue and may be able to assist with setting up a Windows solution that runs smoothly and for most parts compensate for the poor TIFF implementation FrameMaker users have to deal with. The solution will be built around our Publi PDF software and is definitely not free. See http://grafikhuset.net/PubliPDF/tech_components_optimizer_plugin.html for an introduction. Especially the OptimizerRGBImageConversion variable may be of interest. Please contact me off-list if you need assistance. Best regards / Med venlig hilsen Jacob Schäffer | Chief Developer -- Grafikhuset (House of Graphics) Paradis Allé 22, Ramløse DK-3200 Helsinge, Denmark Phone: +45 4439 4400 Email: j...@grafikhuset.dk Web: www.grafikhuset.net ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
