SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

[Jacob Schäffer]

Dov said:

Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe PDF) printer 
default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the 
Distiller.

I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).

I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 3. 
In case of *upgrade* the newer license agreement may supersede the older 
version license, and since the base 13 fonts was removed from 4 (or 5, I'm 
unsure which version, actually) your current license agreement may not cover 
use of the old version fonts.

Dov, what is correct here ???

Best regards
Jacob Schäffer
Grafikhuset
Denmark


 -Oprindelig meddelelse-
 Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Dov Isaacs
 Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
 Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing 
 printers, etc.
 
 
 The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows 
 phantom phont phenomena! Windows font enumeration, used by 
 standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows 
 printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back 
 to the application even if such fonts are not actually 
 installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and 
 specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000, 
 XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file - 
 for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136 
 fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
 
 If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document 
 and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you 
 have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute 
 something on the screen and your output will use the printer 
 version of that font.
 
 The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years 
 (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous 
 Zapf Dingbats problem - see
 http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.ef4dc7a) is to edit all 
 PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a 
 PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards 
 (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one 
 - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an 
 edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates 
 printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
 
 Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration 
 (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat) 
 aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
 
 Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe 
 PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is 
 not a native font of the Distiller.
 
 If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
 
 (1) Change all occurrences of Times in your documents 
 and templates
 to Times New Roman remembering that Times New Roman is in 
 fact a different font than Times although Microsoft (via 
 Monotype) endeavored to keep the set widths of the 
 characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to 
 minimize the chance of line ending differences.
 
 (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe 
 PostScript, it came with
 a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident 
 fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto 
 your computer.
 
 (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times 
 from Adobe or
 with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType 
 version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
 
 - Dov
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Art Campbell
  Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
 
  The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, 
 from your 
  description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still 
 and extra 
  item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the 
  default page description language.
 
  Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the 
  best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF 
 logical printer 
  as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to 
  default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the 
 Adobe Acrobat 
  default is likely to solve your font problem too, because 
 it is likely 
  to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
 
  Art
 
  On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   Hi all,
  
   Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been 
   looking at previous posts and articles on the web, but am 
 still not 
   sure I understand the issues and consequences.
  
   Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our 
   regular Body paragraph tag.
  
   On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be 
 fine. However, 
   they are going to be taken 

Re: SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

[Jim Owens]

The Times font also came with Xerox Ventura Publisher.

Jacob Schäffer wrote:
 Dov said:
 
 Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe PDF) printer 
 default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the 
 Distiller.
 
 I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
 actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
 Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).
 


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SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

[Jacob Schäffer]

Dov said:



I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).

I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 3. 
In case of *upgrade* the newer license agreement may supersede the older 
version license, and since the base 13 fonts was removed from 4 (or 5, I'm 
unsure which version, actually) your current license agreement may not cover 
use of the old version fonts.

Dov, what is correct here ???

Best regards
Jacob Sch?ffer
Grafikhuset
Denmark


> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af Dov Isaacs
> Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
> Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing 
> printers, etc.
> 
> 
> The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows 
> "phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by 
> standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows 
> printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back 
> to the application even if such fonts are not actually 
> installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and 
> specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000, 
> XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file - 
> for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136 
> fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
> 
> If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document 
> and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you 
> have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute 
> something on the screen and your output will use the printer 
> version of that font.
> 
> The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years 
> (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous 
> Zapf Dingbats problem - see
> ) is to edit all 
> PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a 
> PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards 
> (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one 
> - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an 
> edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates 
> printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
> 
> Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration 
> (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat) 
> aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
> 
> Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe 
> PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is 
> not a native font of the Distiller.
> 
> If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
> 
> (1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents 
> and templates
> to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in 
> fact a different font than "Times" although Microsoft (via 
> Monotype) endeavored to keep the "set widths" of the 
> characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to 
> minimize the chance of line ending differences.
> 
> (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe 
> PostScript, it came with
> a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident 
> fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto 
> your computer.
> 
> (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times 
> from Adobe or
> with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType 
> version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
> 
> - Dov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Art Campbell
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
> >
> > The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, 
> from your 
> > description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still 
> and extra 
> > item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the 
> > default page description language.
> >
> > Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the 
> > best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF 
> logical printer 
> > as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to 
> > default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the 
> Adobe Acrobat 
> > default is likely to solve your font problem too, because 
> it is likely 
> > to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul  
> > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been 
> > > looking at previous posts and articles on the web, but am 
> still not 
> > > sure I understand the issues and consequences.
> > >
> > > Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our 
> > > regular Body paragraph tag.
> > >
> > > On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be 
> fine. 

SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

[Jim Owens]

The Times font also came with Xerox Ventura Publisher.

Jacob Sch?ffer wrote:
> Dov said:
> 
>  default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the 
> Distiller.>
> 
> I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
> actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
> Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).
>