Re: [Framers] Automated index or list of keywords in Frame or Word?
Hi Dan: In his retirement, my husband Don has taken up a third career as an indexer - and no, I'm not trying to sell you his services. ;-) He recently completed a Word project with 250,000 indexable words (39 articles for a publication on the Anthropology of Technology) and for that he used an SaaS product called "Index Manager" (link is below with the info he forwarded to me). He says the company that makes the product supports Structured Frame - although I don't have any details about what that entails. As an SaaS product, Don signed up for only one quarter as most jobs allow him to use another product that works with print-ready PDFs from the publisher. If he needs it again, he'll sign up again. He says that you could definitely work on a chapter-by-chapter basis then stitch it all together at the end to create a single index (again, I don't have details on how that's done). And yes, the program inserts Word index markers into the Word file even though you work in the SaaS software. + Embedded Indexing Links "Index Manager": https://index-manager.net/en/home/?v=3e8d115eb4b3 It has a bit of a learning curve, especially for advanced features. The company is very responsive and helpful with any problems. Lots of people also use one of the following. "DexEmbed": I believe this is a 32-bit program, https://www.editorium.com/dexembed.htm "WordEmbed": https://jalamb.com/ + If you have any specific questions, contact me offline and I'll let him reply. Alison acr...@shaw.ca == -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Harding, Dan Sent: December 31, 2021 10:45 AM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: [Framers] Automated index or list of keywords in Frame or Word? Good afternoon, First a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone on the list! By way of background: I have been typesetting an annual textbook in FrameMaker for the last 15+ years. I retired at the end of September, but that's not the cause of my inquiry. I will be continuing to do the same work moving forward on a seasonal freelance basis. No, the changes are to other positions in the editorial workflow and a necessary streamlining of the processes involved. The book that is produced, while existing in PDF formats for electronic access by course attendees, is still primarily a printed work. We've had internal discussions regarding discontinuing the traditional index given the labor involved, given that people typically use Ctrl-f in the PDFs, however this is of no use to a person who only has the printed book. Even if there is no contextual index with content organized into entries, sub-entries, etc. (we've typically gone 3-4 levels deep), IMO there needs to at least be an alphabetical list of major terms/concepts with corresponding page numbers, i.e., a "poor-man's index." Historically, the insertion of index markers has been done in Microsoft Word after the technical and stylistic editing is done, immediately prior to import into Frame, with further refinement and reconciliation all done within Frame. This insertion of index markers has been a manual process, but the position doing this work is being eliminated, and the SMEs and editors do not have the time in the process (or expertise) to take on this process. Outsourcing is not an option, given the idiosyncratic industry jargon that is used; any general indexing service or freelancer wouldn't have the background in our specific industry to be able to effectively index the material. We've tried using external services to do this in the past and it failed dismally due to the lack of context by the party(ies) doing the indexing. There won't be time or resources to take on a learning curve once we're in the midst of production or to vet the work at that point. I realize full well that there is an art/skill to creating an effective index. I'm not arguing that. However, for expediency moving forward this manual process needs to be eliminated, so I am looking for alternative automated solutions that will get us part of the way there. The chapters are produced at different times over a 6-month period, with initial index entry reconciliation work starting at approximately the 4 month mark, and the majority of the reconciliation work being done at the very tail end of the production process immediately prior to going to press (so very small window to complete the final work in Frame). So I am looking for suggestions for either of the following: 1. Microsoft Word-based methods or plugins that will create a keyword/key-term list and insert index markers that will then flow through into FrameMaker upon import. It needs to create and insert the Word index markers; it cannot be a manual insertion process once a list is created. 2. Script/plugin for FrameMaker that does the same a
Re: [Framers] Automated index or list of keywords in Frame or Word?
Hi Ken, I appreciate that suggestion, however I stopped using ixgen back in 2019 as it is only compatible with the 32-bit version of FrameMaker. I found that trying to juggle 32-bit vs. 64-bit Frame applications depending on task to be extremely cumbersome. I'll revisit the application, but Frame's UI performance in 64-bit is bad enough, 32-bit horrifically so. Thanks, -Dan -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Ken Poshedly Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 5:34 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Automated index or list of keywords in Frame or Word? Let's see . . . so they want it done but nobody above you has time to support you. And there is a time crunch and other restrictions. Yep, heard that before. I recall in the early 2000s using a FrameMaker-friendly program called Ixgen that seems to me to do what you require. It worked great. The program is apparently still alive and kicking with more info available at https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.fsatools.com/ixgencentral.htm__;!!DZ3fjg!uO2osNRWQ4f86JqrbgcNkxnHyN69K3AjfVtx2dEj4Okwlmzh_P3lc5Ja05Xrtu3Cov4$ The initial license is only $249.00, which should not be a financial burden to the university. I hope this helps. Happy New Year! -- Ken in Atlanta * On Friday, December 31, 2021, 01:45:20 PM EST, Harding, Dan wrote: Good afternoon, First a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone on the list! By way of background: I have been typesetting an annual textbook in FrameMaker for the last 15+ years. I retired at the end of September, but that's not the cause of my inquiry. I will be continuing to do the same work moving forward on a seasonal freelance basis. No, the changes are to other positions in the editorial workflow and a necessary streamlining of the processes involved. The book that is produced, while existing in PDF formats for electronic access by course attendees, is still primarily a printed work. We've had internal discussions regarding discontinuing the traditional index given the labor involved, given that people typically use Ctrl-f in the PDFs, however this is of no use to a person who only has the printed book. Even if there is no contextual index with content organized into entries, sub-entries, etc. (we've typically gone 3-4 levels deep), IMO there needs to at least be an alphabetical list of major terms/concepts with corresponding page numbers, i.e., a "poor-man's index." Historically, the insertion of index markers has been done in Microsoft Word after the technical and stylistic editing is done, immediately prior to import into Frame, with further refinement and reconciliation all done within Frame. This insertion of index markers has been a manual process, but the position doing this work is being eliminated, and the SMEs and editors do not have the time in the process (or expertise) to take on this process. Outsourcing is not an option, given the idiosyncratic industry jargon that is used; any general indexing service or freelancer wouldn't have the background in our specific industry to be able to effectively index the material. We've tried using external services to do this in the past and it failed dismally due to the lack of context by the party(ies) doing the indexing. There won't be time or resources to take on a learning curve once we're in the midst of production or to vet the work at that point. I realize full well that there is an art/skill to creating an effective index. I'm not arguing that. However, for expediency moving forward this manual process needs to be eliminated, so I am looking for alternative automated solutions that will get us part of the way there. The chapters are produced at different times over a 6-month period, with initial index entry reconciliation work starting at approximately the 4 month mark, and the majority of the reconciliation work being done at the very tail end of the production process immediately prior to going to press (so very small window to complete the final work in Frame). So I am looking for suggestions for either of the following: 1. Microsoft Word-based methods or plugins that will create a keyword/key-term list and insert index markers that will then flow through into FrameMaker upon import. It needs to create and insert the Word index markers; it cannot be a manual insertion process once a list is created. 2. Script/plugin for FrameMaker that does the same after the Word content is imported. Again, it needs to be an automated process that creates and inserts the index markers, understanding that some refinement and reconciliation will be needed. If we need to incorporate the manual creation of a general terms list that chapters are then automated against, or manual vetting of a generated list, that presumably could be incorporated into the editorial stages prior to typesetting.
Re: [Framers] Automated index or list of keywords in Frame or Word?
Let's see . . . so they want it done but nobody above you has time to support you. And there is a time crunch and other restrictions. Yep, heard that before. I recall in the early 2000s using a FrameMaker-friendly program called Ixgen that seems to me to do what you require. It worked great. The program is apparently still alive and kicking with more info available at http://www.fsatools.com/ixgencentral.htm The initial license is only $249.00, which should not be a financial burden to the university. I hope this helps. Happy New Year! -- Ken in Atlanta * On Friday, December 31, 2021, 01:45:20 PM EST, Harding, Dan wrote: Good afternoon, First a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone on the list! By way of background: I have been typesetting an annual textbook in FrameMaker for the last 15+ years. I retired at the end of September, but that's not the cause of my inquiry. I will be continuing to do the same work moving forward on a seasonal freelance basis. No, the changes are to other positions in the editorial workflow and a necessary streamlining of the processes involved. The book that is produced, while existing in PDF formats for electronic access by course attendees, is still primarily a printed work. We've had internal discussions regarding discontinuing the traditional index given the labor involved, given that people typically use Ctrl-f in the PDFs, however this is of no use to a person who only has the printed book. Even if there is no contextual index with content organized into entries, sub-entries, etc. (we've typically gone 3-4 levels deep), IMO there needs to at least be an alphabetical list of major terms/concepts with corresponding page numbers, i.e., a "poor-man's index." Historically, the insertion of index markers has been done in Microsoft Word after the technical and stylistic editing is done, immediately prior to import into Frame, with further refinement and reconciliation all done within Frame. This insertion of index markers has been a manual process, but the position doing this work is being eliminated, and the SMEs and editors do not have the time in the process (or expertise) to take on this process. Outsourcing is not an option, given the idiosyncratic industry jargon that is used; any general indexing service or freelancer wouldn't have the background in our specific industry to be able to effectively index the material. We've tried using external services to do this in the past and it failed dismally due to the lack of context by the party(ies) doing the indexing. There won't be time or resources to take on a learning curve once we're in the midst of production or to vet the work at that point. I realize full well that there is an art/skill to creating an effective index. I'm not arguing that. However, for expediency moving forward this manual process needs to be eliminated, so I am looking for alternative automated solutions that will get us part of the way there. The chapters are produced at different times over a 6-month period, with initial index entry reconciliation work starting at approximately the 4 month mark, and the majority of the reconciliation work being done at the very tail end of the production process immediately prior to going to press (so very small window to complete the final work in Frame). So I am looking for suggestions for either of the following: 1. Microsoft Word-based methods or plugins that will create a keyword/key-term list and insert index markers that will then flow through into FrameMaker upon import. It needs to create and insert the Word index markers; it cannot be a manual insertion process once a list is created. 2. Script/plugin for FrameMaker that does the same after the Word content is imported. Again, it needs to be an automated process that creates and inserts the index markers, understanding that some refinement and reconciliation will be needed. If we need to incorporate the manual creation of a general terms list that chapters are then automated against, or manual vetting of a generated list, that presumably could be incorporated into the editorial stages prior to typesetting. I'm open to other suggestions, however we are not moving the typesetting production out of FrameMaker at this time, nor are we looking to contract with a service for this work on an ongoing basis. If there are one-time up-front development costs that results in something turn-key and sustainable moving forward, that would be considered, but we are looking to avoid recurring expenses. Thank you in advance for any input/suggestions. -Dan Harding ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe
[Framers] Automated index or list of keywords in Frame or Word?
Good afternoon, First a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone on the list! By way of background: I have been typesetting an annual textbook in FrameMaker for the last 15+ years. I retired at the end of September, but that's not the cause of my inquiry. I will be continuing to do the same work moving forward on a seasonal freelance basis. No, the changes are to other positions in the editorial workflow and a necessary streamlining of the processes involved. The book that is produced, while existing in PDF formats for electronic access by course attendees, is still primarily a printed work. We've had internal discussions regarding discontinuing the traditional index given the labor involved, given that people typically use Ctrl-f in the PDFs, however this is of no use to a person who only has the printed book. Even if there is no contextual index with content organized into entries, sub-entries, etc. (we've typically gone 3-4 levels deep), IMO there needs to at least be an alphabetical list of major terms/concepts with corresponding page numbers, i.e., a "poor-man's index." Historically, the insertion of index markers has been done in Microsoft Word after the technical and stylistic editing is done, immediately prior to import into Frame, with further refinement and reconciliation all done within Frame. This insertion of index markers has been a manual process, but the position doing this work is being eliminated, and the SMEs and editors do not have the time in the process (or expertise) to take on this process. Outsourcing is not an option, given the idiosyncratic industry jargon that is used; any general indexing service or freelancer wouldn't have the background in our specific industry to be able to effectively index the material. We've tried using external services to do this in the past and it failed dismally due to the lack of context by the party(ies) doing the indexing. There won't be time or resources to take on a learning curve once we're in the midst of production or to vet the work at that point. I realize full well that there is an art/skill to creating an effective index. I'm not arguing that. However, for expediency moving forward this manual process needs to be eliminated, so I am looking for alternative automated solutions that will get us part of the way there. The chapters are produced at different times over a 6-month period, with initial index entry reconciliation work starting at approximately the 4 month mark, and the majority of the reconciliation work being done at the very tail end of the production process immediately prior to going to press (so very small window to complete the final work in Frame). So I am looking for suggestions for either of the following: 1. Microsoft Word-based methods or plugins that will create a keyword/key-term list and insert index markers that will then flow through into FrameMaker upon import. It needs to create and insert the Word index markers; it cannot be a manual insertion process once a list is created. 2. Script/plugin for FrameMaker that does the same after the Word content is imported. Again, it needs to be an automated process that creates and inserts the index markers, understanding that some refinement and reconciliation will be needed. If we need to incorporate the manual creation of a general terms list that chapters are then automated against, or manual vetting of a generated list, that presumably could be incorporated into the editorial stages prior to typesetting. I'm open to other suggestions, however we are not moving the typesetting production out of FrameMaker at this time, nor are we looking to contract with a service for this work on an ongoing basis. If there are one-time up-front development costs that results in something turn-key and sustainable moving forward, that would be considered, but we are looking to avoid recurring expenses. Thank you in advance for any input/suggestions. -Dan Harding ___ This message is from the Framers mailing list Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
keywords
A Frame book that I took over is mysteriously leaving out-of-date, unwanted words in the Keywords field that is visible in the PDF when you right-click the PDF file and click the PDF tab. I have searched through each Frame file by right-clicking and picking Properties and clicking the Summary tab, but there is not one word in the Keywords field in those files. So I do not know where the PDF is drawing on for the words in its Keywords field. Maybe there are ghosts in the conversion? Paul
keywords
D'oh! There it is.
Thank you.
Homer
-- Original message --
From: Martha J Davidson <edit...@nemasys.com>
> Have you looked in File > File Info with everything, including the top line
> (book name) selected? That might show something you haven't seen.
>
> martha
>
> At 04:49 PM 5/30/2006, you wrote:
> >A Frame book that I took over is mysteriously leaving out-of-date,
> >unwanted words in the Keywords field that is visible in the PDF when you
> >right-click the PDF file and click the PDF tab.
> >
> >I have searched through each Frame file by right-clicking and picking
> >Properties and clicking the Summary tab, but there is not one word in the
> >Keywords field in those files.
> >
> >So I do not know where the PDF is drawing on for the words in its Keywords
> >field.
> >
> >Maybe there are ghosts in the conversion?
> >
> >Paul
>
> --
> Martha Jane {Kolman | Davidson}
> Dances With Words
> editrix at nemasys.com
>
> "Too many words bring about exhaustion."
> --Tao Te Ching, Chapter 5 (translated by Sheets/Tovey)
>
>
keywords
Did you look at the File menu > File Info in the book file, as well as individual .fm files? Cheers, Rebecca >>> 31/05/06 11:49 >>> A Frame book that I took over is mysteriously leaving out-of-date, unwanted words in the Keywords field that is visible in the PDF when you right-click the PDF file and click the PDF tab. I have searched through each Frame file by right-clicking and picking Properties and clicking the Summary tab, but there is not one word in the Keywords field in those files. So I do not know where the PDF is drawing on for the words in its Keywords field. Maybe there are ghosts in the conversion? Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as rebecca.officer at alliedtelesyn.co.nz. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rebecca.officer%40alliedtelesyn.co.nz Send administrative questions to lisa at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender has the authority to issue and specifically states them to be the views of Allied Telesis Labs.
keywords
A Frame book that I took over is mysteriously leaving out-of-date, unwanted words in the Keywords field that is visible in the PDF when you right-click the PDF file and click the PDF tab. I have searched through each Frame file by right-clicking and picking Properties and clicking the Summary tab, but there is not one word in the Keywords field in those files. So I do not know where the PDF is drawing on for the words in its Keywords field. Maybe there are ghosts in the conversion? Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: keywords
D'oh! There it is.
Thank you.
Homer
-- Original message --
From: Martha J Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Have you looked in File File Info with everything, including the top line
(book name) selected? That might show something you haven't seen.
martha
At 04:49 PM 5/30/2006, you wrote:
A Frame book that I took over is mysteriously leaving out-of-date,
unwanted words in the Keywords field that is visible in the PDF when you
right-click the PDF file and click the PDF tab.
I have searched through each Frame file by right-clicking and picking
Properties and clicking the Summary tab, but there is not one word in the
Keywords field in those files.
So I do not know where the PDF is drawing on for the words in its Keywords
field.
Maybe there are ghosts in the conversion?
Paul
--
Martha Jane {Kolman | Davidson}
Dances With Words
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Too many words bring about exhaustion.
--Tao Te Ching, Chapter 5 (translated by Sheets/Tovey)
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com
Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: keywords
Did you look at the File menu File Info in the book file, as well as individual .fm files? Cheers, Rebecca [EMAIL PROTECTED] 31/05/06 11:49 A Frame book that I took over is mysteriously leaving out-of-date, unwanted words in the Keywords field that is visible in the PDF when you right-click the PDF file and click the PDF tab. I have searched through each Frame file by right-clicking and picking Properties and clicking the Summary tab, but there is not one word in the Keywords field in those files. So I do not know where the PDF is drawing on for the words in its Keywords field. Maybe there are ghosts in the conversion? Paul ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rebecca.officer%40alliedtelesyn.co.nz Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender has the authority to issue and specifically states them to be the views of Allied Telesis Labs. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
