Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher
I don't think you can safely add a layer of finish - ink and markers probably won't change much, but craft paint is going to come off (to some degree) so if you want to project this (much) you need to make a print. As I'm sure you are aware, the motion of the film through the projector is intermittent, it is vigorous, anything up on top of the surface of the plastic is going to come off. Good luck! From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Jarrett Hayman Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:02 PM To: FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] painted film finisher Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher
Hi Jarrett, I've used clear nail polish successfully, but it's really just a stopgap to transfer it, not a permanent solution. If you send the film off for public screenings without a print it's pretty much guaranteed that the projectionists will be extremely annoyed at a print that is gunking up their equipment. It will also be difficult to project it properly as it might make the film jump around in the gate since it's not perfectly smooth anymore. If you're just projecting it for yourself, or intending to stabilize it for a transfer, the nail polish seems to work fine though. Also if you haven't seen it already, Helen Hill's Recipes for Disaster is an excellent handmade film resource - http://www.angoleiro.com/cine_texts/recipes_for_disaster_hill.pdf. I can't seem to find an official online publication of it, but the official memorial website with more information on the author is http://www.helenhill.org. Cheers, Melanie Wilmink On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Jarrett Hayman jfhay...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher
Hi, Yes, I agree with previous comments about adding yet another layer to the film: don't, at least not as a long lasting projection solution. If break-down / image degeneration during exhibition is your thing, then that's another story. But it sounds like you want what you've made to stay more or less the same. Not sure how long your films are, as that might affect how easily you can rephotograph them yourself. If you have access to an optical printer, and your films are relatively short, then then that would be the way I'd go. I work with a lot of folks who optically print any direct animation / manipulation they do on 16mm right off the bat, so they have a clean, lab-friendly negative / camera original. But get lots of isopropyl alcohol, as the projection side of the printer will need cleaning. I'd look within your filmmaking community to see what sort of optical printer access you have, and if there is a machine that other people have used for this sort of slightly messier stuff. Other list members might have solutions as to labs that deal happily with this sort of thing. If your movies are long, then you might have to look into something more specialized. But I would consider doing it yourself if you have some equipment access. While it's slightly against the camera-less film ideal, it's a measure that has frequently been made in order to ensure that a decent print of your work is shown, and that doesn't gum up a projector. Isaac Common Pictures On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Tom Whiteside tom.whites...@duke.eduwrote: I don’t think you can safely add a layer of finish – ink and markers probably won’t change much, but craft paint is going to come off (to some degree) so if you want to project this (much) you need to make a print.*** * ** ** As I’m sure you are aware, the motion of the film through the projector is intermittent, it is vigorous, anything up on top of the surface of the plastic is going to come off. ** ** Good luck! ** ** *From:* FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] *On Behalf Of *Jarrett Hayman *Sent:* Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:02 PM *To:* FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com *Subject:* [Frameworks] painted film finisher ** ** Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher
I'd like to second the internegative idea. If your work is done, then take it to a lab, have a contact internegative struck, and sit in on the timing session to ensure that the colors are just the way you want them. Or, and here is an opportunity for more creative work, if you have access to a contact printer, make your own internegative and then print. Contact printers normally print emulsion to emulsion, and continuously, and are (in principle) very easy on irregular materials. On May 26, 2013, at 7:06 PM, Roger Wilson wrote: The process that is normally done is to have an internegative completed from the painted film and then a print made from this internegative. I think anything you place on the film will eventually wear off. Roger D. Wilson 613 324 - 7504 rogerdwil...@sympatico.ca http://www.rogerdwilson.ca Without failure you can never achieve success. I have based my process and my career as an experimental film artist on this statement; and I welcome it as it pushes me forward as an artist to try something different, something new. Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 20:01:37 -0500 From: jfhay...@gmail.com To: FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] painted film finisher Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher
Thank you all for the info. My films aren't too long, max five minutes. I will probably try the clear nail polish option, as I'm looking for a way to stabilize the material on the film until I can wrangle up the money needed to get internegatives and prints made, they are both on clear super-8 leader so I'll also need to do a 16mm blow-up. The shorter film is simply dirt on clear leader, and I'm afraid that any printing process might smear the dirt off if I attempted to do so as is (not to mention gum up any equipment) again, thanks! -JH On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Isaac Brooks isaacbrook...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Yes, I agree with previous comments about adding yet another layer to the film: don't, at least not as a long lasting projection solution. If break-down / image degeneration during exhibition is your thing, then that's another story. But it sounds like you want what you've made to stay more or less the same. Not sure how long your films are, as that might affect how easily you can rephotograph them yourself. If you have access to an optical printer, and your films are relatively short, then then that would be the way I'd go. I work with a lot of folks who optically print any direct animation / manipulation they do on 16mm right off the bat, so they have a clean, lab-friendly negative / camera original. But get lots of isopropyl alcohol, as the projection side of the printer will need cleaning. I'd look within your filmmaking community to see what sort of optical printer access you have, and if there is a machine that other people have used for this sort of slightly messier stuff. Other list members might have solutions as to labs that deal happily with this sort of thing. If your movies are long, then you might have to look into something more specialized. But I would consider doing it yourself if you have some equipment access. While it's slightly against the camera-less film ideal, it's a measure that has frequently been made in order to ensure that a decent print of your work is shown, and that doesn't gum up a projector. Isaac Common Pictures On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Tom Whiteside tom.whites...@duke.eduwrote: I don’t think you can safely add a layer of finish – ink and markers probably won’t change much, but craft paint is going to come off (to some degree) so if you want to project this (much) you need to make a print.** ** ** ** As I’m sure you are aware, the motion of the film through the projector is intermittent, it is vigorous, anything up on top of the surface of the plastic is going to come off. ** ** Good luck! ** ** *From:* FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] *On Behalf Of *Jarrett Hayman *Sent:* Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:02 PM *To:* FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com *Subject:* [Frameworks] painted film finisher ** ** Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher
Try some clear lacquer spray – if you spray it on and add another couple of fine coats when its still wet, the lay-off should be smooth and it will be fairly flexible. I've done this in the past and you have to get the lacquer to 'soak' over/around your mark making while wet without skimming over the sprocket holes (and clogging them). You can let this dry – it doesn't take long – and then lay on another fine coat. Don't go too thick or the celluloid may cause it to crack. You can either use a charcoal fixative (from art supply shops) or just use some automotive lacquer (the motorcycle stuff works the best). P Thank you all for the info. My films aren't too long, max five minutes. I will probably try the clear nail polish option, as I'm looking for a way to stabilize the material on the film until I can wrangle up the money needed to get internegatives and prints made, they are both on clear super-8 leader so I'll also need to do a 16mm blow-up. The shorter film is simply dirt on clear leader, and I'm afraid that any printing process might smear the dirt off if I attempted to do so as is (not to mention gum up any equipment) again, thanks! -JH On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Isaac Brooks isaacbrook...@gmail.commailto:isaacbrook...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Yes, I agree with previous comments about adding yet another layer to the film: don't, at least not as a long lasting projection solution. If break-down / image degeneration during exhibition is your thing, then that's another story. But it sounds like you want what you've made to stay more or less the same. Not sure how long your films are, as that might affect how easily you can rephotograph them yourself. If you have access to an optical printer, and your films are relatively short, then then that would be the way I'd go. I work with a lot of folks who optically print any direct animation / manipulation they do on 16mm right off the bat, so they have a clean, lab-friendly negative / camera original. But get lots of isopropyl alcohol, as the projection side of the printer will need cleaning. I'd look within your filmmaking community to see what sort of optical printer access you have, and if there is a machine that other people have used for this sort of slightly messier stuff. Other list members might have solutions as to labs that deal happily with this sort of thing. If your movies are long, then you might have to look into something more specialized. But I would consider doing it yourself if you have some equipment access. While it's slightly against the camera-less film ideal, it's a measure that has frequently been made in order to ensure that a decent print of your work is shown, and that doesn't gum up a projector. Isaac Common Pictures On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Tom Whiteside tom.whites...@duke.edumailto:tom.whites...@duke.edu wrote: I don’t think you can safely add a layer of finish – ink and markers probably won’t change much, but craft paint is going to come off (to some degree) so if you want to project this (much) you need to make a print. As I’m sure you are aware, the motion of the film through the projector is intermittent, it is vigorous, anything up on top of the surface of the plastic is going to come off. Good luck! From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.commailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Jarrett Hayman Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:02 PM To: FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.commailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com Subject: [Frameworks] painted film finisher Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.commailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.commailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] painted film finisher
Hello, I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually quite flammable. Any ideas? -JH ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
