Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Andy Ditzler]

Hi Ken,

Errol Morris' The Thin Blue Line comes to mind immediately. The
re-enactments are indeed expressive within the film's overall minimalist
approach.


Andy Ditzler
Founder and curator, Film Love: www.filmlove.org
Co-founder, John Q collective: www.johnq.org

John Q in the New York Times Lens blog: http://nyti.ms/2aDWklE

forthcoming:
Journal of American Studies, co-editor, special issue, 2017 (with Joey Orr)


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Ken Paul Rosenthal <
kenpaulrosent...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks to one and all for your suggestions. To clarify some
> questions/points that were raised/made:
>
>
> By 'expressive dramatizations', I did not intend to refer to
> 'docu-dramas', or clips appropriated from fiction films as illustrations
> within documentaries. So the question of where the clip or scene came from,
> while interesting, is not relevant to what I'm seeking. Unfortunately, I
> don't have a good memory archive of films, so the only example that came to
> mind in my initial request was, 'The Act of Killing'. But I know there are
> innumerable other examples.
>
>
> I recently saw a new doc on the life of Norman Lear, which featured 'flash
> back dramatizations' of a child siting on a sound stage in a very sparsely
> constructed home; a wall here or there, a suspended window, colored
> shadows, a b/w motion picture projection of a memory, etc. This is the best
> memory I could muster, but I didn't mention it because it's still not quite
> as expressive as I had in mind. Rather than 're-staged', perhaps 'staged'
> would have been a good descriptor. Or 'expressively staged'--yes, I think
> that works best for what I'm looking for. Regardless, I've been compiling
> quite a list between Frameworks and Doculink and when I find a couple good
> examples, I'll post them as illustrations for what I'm seeking, and that
> might breed more suggestions.
>
>
> While I'm very particular about word choices, and how their denotation and
> connotation can be mediated by context, I typed 'docs' rather than
> 'documentaries' while writing my post simply as a matter of short hand
> while typing. I'll leave it all if you'd like to bandy the differences
> between the two. Or the implication that verite implies truth. All one need
> do is consult the numerous interview in Scott MacDonald's brilliant
> compendium of interviews on the intersection of avant garde and documentary
> genres for how the documentaries have evolved in practice and by extension,
> definition. I also adore Herzog's insistence that anything that moves the
> film towards a 'deeper truth' is fair game, no matter how re/constructed.
>
>
> Here's a really old, short essay I wrote--telling titled,
> 'Manipulations'--for a program of experimental docs I curated back in 2001
> in Singapore. I think the basic principles still hold true so I'm linking
> it here for whatever relevance to the discussion may be gleaned:
> http://www.kenpaulrosenthal.com/manipulations.htm
>
>
> Cheers, Ken
> www.kenpaulrosenthal.com
> www.whisperrapture.com
> www.maddancementalhealthfilmtrilogy.com
>
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Chuck Kleinhans]

Chuck Kleinhans
chuck...@northwestern.edu



On Aug 29, 2016, at 3:44 PM, Fred Camper 
> wrote:

As words change their meaning through usage, "documentary" now includes films 
full of reenactments.


The whole field of documentary studies has changed and grown  in the past 25 
years or so, as nicely demonstrated by the massive new anthology edited by 
Jonathan Kahana, The Documentary Film Reader.  What used to be thought of 
largely as the social documentary tradition now encompasses all kinds of 
examples from the world of nonfiction, and often television and social media 
screen forms.  At the recent Visible Evidence documentary conference in Montana 
I heard a panel on what would have been called “landscape photography” in art 
circles.

not grumpy

Chuck Kleinhans



___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Jeff Kreines]

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Ken Paul Rosenthal 
>  wrote:
> 
> All one need do is consult the numerous interview in Scott MacDonald's 
> brilliant compendium of interviews on the intersection of avant garde and 
> documentary genres for how the documentaries have evolved in practice and by 
> extension, definition. 

Don’t get me started!

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
j...@kinetta.com
kinetta.com


___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Ken Paul Rosenthal]

Thanks to one and all for your suggestions. To clarify some questions/points 
that were raised/made:


By 'expressive dramatizations', I did not intend to refer to 'docu-dramas', or 
clips appropriated from fiction films as illustrations within documentaries. So 
the question of where the clip or scene came from, while interesting, is not 
relevant to what I'm seeking. Unfortunately, I don't have a good memory archive 
of films, so the only example that came to mind in my initial request was, 'The 
Act of Killing'. But I know there are innumerable other examples.


I recently saw a new doc on the life of Norman Lear, which featured 'flash back 
dramatizations' of a child siting on a sound stage in a very sparsely 
constructed home; a wall here or there, a suspended window, colored shadows, a 
b/w motion picture projection of a memory, etc. This is the best memory I could 
muster, but I didn't mention it because it's still not quite as expressive as I 
had in mind. Rather than 're-staged', perhaps 'staged' would have been a good 
descriptor. Or 'expressively staged'--yes, I think that works best for what I'm 
looking for. Regardless, I've been compiling quite a list between Frameworks 
and Doculink and when I find a couple good examples, I'll post them as 
illustrations for what I'm seeking, and that might breed more suggestions.


While I'm very particular about word choices, and how their denotation and 
connotation can be mediated by context, I typed 'docs' rather than 
'documentaries' while writing my post simply as a matter of short hand while 
typing. I'll leave it all if you'd like to bandy the differences between the 
two. Or the implication that verite implies truth. All one need do is consult 
the numerous interview in Scott MacDonald's brilliant compendium of interviews 
on the intersection of avant garde and documentary genres for how the 
documentaries have evolved in practice and by extension, definition. I also 
adore Herzog's insistence that anything that moves the film towards a 'deeper 
truth' is fair game, no matter how re/constructed.


Here's a really old, short essay I wrote--telling titled, 'Manipulations'--for 
a program of experimental docs I curated back in 2001 in Singapore. I think the 
basic principles still hold true so I'm linking it here for whatever relevance 
to the discussion may be gleaned: 
http://www.kenpaulrosenthal.com/manipulations.htm


Cheers, Ken

www.kenpaulrosenthal.com
www.whisperrapture.com
www.maddancementalhealthfilmtrilogy.com
___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[peter snowdon]

Miguel Gomes, Arabian Nights.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/apr/21/arabian-nights-vol-1-the-restless-one-review-miguel-gomes[1]


>>
>> >
>> >> On Aug 29, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Ken Paul Rosenthal
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm researching docs that feature expressive dramatizations,
>> >> either as
>> >>brief interstitial moments or extended scenes such as 'The Act of
>> >>Killing'. I look forward to any and all suggestions.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, Ken
>> >> www.kenpaulrosenthal.com
>> >> www.whisperrapture.com
>> >> www.maddancementalhealthfilmtrilogy.com
>> >> ___
>> >> FrameWorks mailing list
>> >> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> >> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>> >
>> >___
>> >FrameWorks mailing list
>> >FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> >https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>>
>>
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>
>
> --
> Elena Duque Viña
> Telf: (+34) 605431072
> elenadu...@gmail.com
> _
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

--
 Nicolas Rey
___
gourna films
www.redrice.net


Links:

  1. https://www.kinolorber.com/news/article/id/22
___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Adam Hyman]

Hi,

I'm biased (as I was co-producer), but "Operation Homecoming: Writing the
Wartime Experience" (2007 is very interesting in the wide array of
approaches it uses, from direct address to camera, archival footage,
direct cinema, "dramatization," and animation to convey the writings of
troops about their experiences in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Adam

On 8/29/16 1:19 PM, "Gene Youngblood"  wrote:

>Ken,
>Do you require that the ³expressive dramatizations² come from the maker
>of the documentary? That¹s important. There¹s a doc about the history of
>class struggle in America that Link TV has been showing in the past few
>months which is illustrated entirely with clips from feature films, but
>it¹s not a critique of those films, and the viewer is not supposed to
>receive them as such. You¹re supposed to understand them as ³expressive
>dramatizations² of the documentary¹s subject and ignore where they came
>from. There are a lot of them, from "Matewan² to ³The Age of Innocence²
>(they are not identified) and it works, more or less. I qualify it
>because it¹s like telling someone ³don¹t think of an elephant.²
>Especially people like us; maybe an ³average filmgoer,² whatever that
>means, would not be as aware. I¹m losing the name of the doc right now.
>
>
>> On Aug 29, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Ken Paul Rosenthal
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm researching docs that feature expressive dramatizations, either as
>>brief interstitial moments or extended scenes such as 'The Act of
>>Killing'. I look forward to any and all suggestions.
>> 
>> Thanks, Ken
>> www.kenpaulrosenthal.com
>> www.whisperrapture.com
>> www.maddancementalhealthfilmtrilogy.com
>> ___
>> FrameWorks mailing list
>> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>
>___
>FrameWorks mailing list
>FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks


___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Jeff Kreines]

> On Aug 29, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Fred Camper  wrote:
> 
> Do many people care about the difference at all anymore. Don't some 
> "theoreticians" even argue that the difference is irrelevant in our "fakey" 
> world?

Theoreticians?  Is that still a thing?


Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
j...@kinetta.com
kinetta.com


___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Fred Camper]

On 8/29/2016 4:10 PM, Jeff Kreines wrote:


...Now it seems that many people prefer to fake it...
Do many people care about the difference at all anymore. Don't some 
"theoreticians" even argue that the difference is irrelevant in our 
"fakey" world?


As words change their meaning through usage, "documentary" now includes 
films full of reenactments.


I'm with you, Jeff.

"Grumpy" Fred
aka

Fred Camper
Chicago

___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Jeff Kreines]

> 
> On Aug 29, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Ken Paul Rosenthal 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm researching docs that feature expressive dramatizations, either as brief 
> interstitial moments or extended scenes such as 'The Act of Killing'. I look 
> forward to any and all suggestions. 


More proof the the word “documentary” or the ugly “docs” has lost all meaning.

How about calling them “docudramas” or “fictional reenactments of things that 
might have happened, as imagined by someone who probably wasn’t there when it 
did happen?”

Or “reality-inspired fiction.”

Yes, some of the earliest “documentaries” restaged events, because the 
technology made it difficult to capture things as they happened.  But many 
people labored long and hard to make it possible to film real life as it 
happened.  

Now it seems that many people prefer to fake it.  (There are entire series on 
PBS devoted to bad fake history “films” made by people who think they belong in 
Hollywood — e.g. American Masters.  Or watch “The History Channel.”)

Yes, The Act of Killing is not so simple-minded (though I have not seen it, 
I’ve read about it) but many more recent films are.

Jeff “grumpy old cinema-verite partisan” Kreines






___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Gene Youngblood]

Ken,
Do you require that the “expressive dramatizations” come from the maker of the 
documentary? That’s important. There’s a doc about the history of class 
struggle in America that Link TV has been showing in the past few months which 
is illustrated entirely with clips from feature films, but it’s not a critique 
of those films, and the viewer is not supposed to receive them as such. You’re 
supposed to understand them as “expressive dramatizations” of the documentary’s 
subject and ignore where they came from. There are a lot of them, from 
"Matewan” to “The Age of Innocence” (they are not identified) and it works, 
more or less. I qualify it because it’s like telling someone “don’t think of an 
elephant.” Especially people like us; maybe an “average filmgoer,” whatever 
that means, would not be as aware. I’m losing the name of the doc right now. 


> On Aug 29, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Ken Paul Rosenthal 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm researching docs that feature expressive dramatizations, either as brief 
> interstitial moments or extended scenes such as 'The Act of Killing'. I look 
> forward to any and all suggestions. 
> 
> Thanks, Ken
> www.kenpaulrosenthal.com
> www.whisperrapture.com
> www.maddancementalhealthfilmtrilogy.com
> ___
> FrameWorks mailing list
> FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks

Re: [Frameworks] Docs With Expressive Dramatizations

[Sofia Canales]

S21 by Rithy Panh.
Inextinguishable Fire by Harun Farocki, and also What Farocki Taught by
Jill Godmillow
___
FrameWorks mailing list
FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks