Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
Jan Beich writes: > grarpamp writes: > >> BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of >> its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make. >> Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups, >> if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features. > > Like https://github.com/shellspec/shellbench ? > I did check a month ago (on 2021-08-31) but forgot NetBSD sh(1). > Obviously, the results may vary per OS/version/architecture/hardware. Nevemind. I've tested inside jail (probably 12.2 amd64) instead of -CURRENT.
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
grarpamp writes: > BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of > its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make. > Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups, > if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features. Like https://github.com/shellspec/shellbench ? I did check a month ago (on 2021-08-31) but forgot NetBSD sh(1). Obviously, the results may vary per OS/version/architecture/hardware. $ ./shellbench -s sh,dash,busybox/sh,bash,zsh,oksh,ksh93,yash sample/*.sh -- name sh dash busybox/sh bash zsh oksh ksh93 yash -- assign.sh: positional params1,983,164747,830666,979443,083 551,071875,915479,129395,225 assign.sh: variable 2,405,745827,904741,112616,017 1,308,457 1,013,153588,698510,636 assign.sh: local var2,398,554834,027747,871603,486 1,293,027 1,007,511 error503,410 assign.sh: local var (typeset) error error error616,483 1,306,641 1,011,383544,136504,782 cmp.sh: [ ] 1,628,216567,700465,761352,438 336,288713,738518,768297,987 cmp.sh: [[ ]] error error error480,974 595,441903,502613,269376,550 cmp.sh: case2,527,633 1,196,339 1,024,253606,588 632,811959,232628,183450,893 count.sh: posix 1,640,683717,178589,330463,934 907,140700,233376,361398,937 count.sh: typeset -ierror error error452,029 907,541652,885385,585 error count.sh: increment error error error581,631 1,264,962845,738581,111 error eval.sh: direct assign 1,670,797564,299518,082308,709 198,714722,050285,150279,020 eval.sh: eval assign1,102,774393,161332,925194,636 156,834476,164173,156192,191 eval.sh: command subs 2,188 5,828 4,830 2,208 1,597 5,015 ? 4,302 func.sh: no func2,451,641836,115756,258614,579 711,116 1,087,770571,210507,644 func.sh: func 1,947,254596,731542,519349,748 187,903845,681306,506313,989 null.sh: blank 3,094,116 error error error 1,529,326 1,304,367 error593,711 null.sh: assign variable2,419,811845,676751,887669,694 1,374,858 1,012,724599,490533,401 null.sh: define function2,687,933 1,259,149 1,076,947661,432 1,270,777 1,085,654584,490525,184 null.sh: undefined variable 2,445,429839,334750,904505,147 631,862 1,048,805473,900501,851 null.sh: : command 2,418,617839,744742,385610,307 701,972 1,064,089565,323500,879 output.sh: echo 1,518,368669,539620,417404,729 544,030781,488540,064380,174 output.sh: printf 1,481,745632,454535,170395,649 534,303 1,556258,827365,724 output.sh: printerror error error error 542,740775,812353,320 error subshell.sh: no subshell2,330,179819,359729,753571,353 705,892 1,005,262560,780485,498 subshell.sh: brace 2,343,747833,142728,803554,948 568,470984,156557,069413,438 subshell.sh: subshell 3,444 6,917 2,814 1,190 3,578 3,391240,738 2,570 subshell.sh: command subs 1,871,462 3,806 5,966 2,766 2,709 4,564146,388 3,691 subshell.sh: external command 1,112996579893 2,190 2,529 1,728 1,778 -- * count: number of executions per second
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:03:40PM +0200, Alban Hertroys wrote: > > > On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > (…) > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > > shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > > propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > My one concern is this: what is the impact of these usability improvements to > sh on its usage in scripts? None, those are in a code path with doesn't get executed when in non interactive mode. Best regards, Bapt
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On 2021-09-22 12:26, Marek Zarychta wrote: W dniu 22.09.2021 o 19:46, Warner Losh pisze: On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote: On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably prefer removing it outright.) I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the default password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Users that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts. Warner I am curious which attacks you are referring to since I have never heard of attacks on toor account. I have seen a lot of malware attacking root, admin, nobody, and other accounts, but never toor. In the 30 some yrs I've been on UNIX and the likes. I've only ever known ~half a dozen administrators that ever choose toor. Those that want to continue doing so, will not be prevented from continuing to do so. TBH toor might be handy as a backdoor account if you are familiar with FreeBSD enough to take advantage of it. It can also act as an account of last resort when someone breaks into your system and changes root password, wipes ssh keys etc, so it cuts both ways, not even mentioning POLA. TBH this is a non-issue. toor is simply an alias to root. Anyone that has a root hacked system need only spin up the FreeBSD mini iso/img, mount their hacked system && hack back into shape. :-) Props to all the work and proposed changes here. Thanks! :-) --Chris P.S. This is NOT a bike shed. The transition from csh to sh as a default root's shell will probably save some CPU cycles for people using Chef, Ansible, etc thus pushing FreeBSD toward green computing. Sysadmins bound to csh will be fine until it remains in the base system and chsh works. I shouldn't probably post here since I am only a voice from the userbase but can't help doing so. Kind regards, 0xBDE49540.asc Description: application/pgp-keys
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
> On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose > to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > Thanks for this! What I miss a bit is a completion triggered by delete-char-or-list-or-eof (^D) as it was in (t)csh. otis — Juraj Lutter o...@freebsd.org
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE Make it so. The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of sh, not csh. So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update, needed for decades. Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. "csh considered harmful" toor needs to go as part of simple cruft removal for a cleaner base, else you would have to add zoor, koor, boor, toor, etc. No no no no! Nobody leave FreeBSD just to get run csh on their windows command prompt ;) Users are always free to customize local installs as desired. BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make. Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups, if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features.
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
> On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (…) > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose > to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) My one concern is this: what is the impact of these usability improvements to sh on its usage in scripts? I can imagine that there is merit to having a separate shell that is optimised for scriptability and script performance and having a different shell for user interaction. It seems to me the former was a primary purpose of sh? How much “weight” did it gain in becoming more user friendly and how will that impact script performance? I’ve been using FreeBSD with some frequency since 2.2.5 or so, so I am used enough to getting csh as root shell to not be able to see the problem that this change is trying to solve. Call me biased. My purpose is just to throw in a different point of view here, I’m not a big sh script user myself (I think I wrote less than a dozen over the years), this is not something for me to judge. Alban Hertroys -- There is always an exception to always.
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
W dniu 22.09.2021 o 19:46, Warner Losh pisze: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote: > >> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >>> >>> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >> confusing >>> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne >> shell >>> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >>> >>> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >>> interactive mode: >>> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >>> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other >> shells >>> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect >> $EDITOR) >>> * support for history as described by POSIX. >>> >>> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to >> propose to >>> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not >> MFCed) >>> >>> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make >> this >>> proposal happen. >>> >>> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >> >> I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' >> from the >> default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably >> prefer removing it outright.) >> > > I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the > default > password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Users > that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts. > > Warner > I am curious which attacks you are referring to since I have never heard of attacks on toor account. I have seen a lot of malware attacking root, admin, nobody, and other accounts, but never toor. TBH toor might be handy as a backdoor account if you are familiar with FreeBSD enough to take advantage of it. It can also act as an account of last resort when someone breaks into your system and changes root password, wipes ssh keys etc, so it cuts both ways, not even mentioning POLA. The transition from csh to sh as a default root's shell will probably save some CPU cycles for people using Chef, Ansible, etc thus pushing FreeBSD toward green computing. Sysadmins bound to csh will be fine until it remains in the base system and chsh works. I shouldn't probably post here since I am only a voice from the userbase but can't help doing so. Kind regards, -- Marek Zarychta OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > > confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > > shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > > propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from > the > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > prefer removing it outright.) I support both of these suggestions, when I first installed FreeBSD ~2006 toor already felt like a strange an anachronism. - Tom
WITH_LLVM_BINUTILS: objcopy: error: invalid output format: 'efi-app-x86_64' *** [boot1.efi]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hello list, Trying to "crosscompile" a 13-STABLE appliance on 14-CURRENT ( FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #8 main-n249550-8db1669959ce: Wed Sep 22 05:39:53 CEST 2021 amd64) with WITH_LLVM_BINUTILS=YES set in /etc/src.conf (and a complete fresh rebuild of the whole OS afterwards) results in some serious fallout lately. Compiling a recent, just updated this minute, 13-STABLE source, I face this error now and relate this to the llvm-binutils: [...] - --- boot1.efi --- if nm boot1.sym | grep ' U '; then echo "Undefined symbols in boot1.sym"; exit 1; fi SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH=1451606400 objcopy -j .peheader -j .text -j .sdata -j .data -j .dynamic -j .dynsym -j .rel.dyn -j .rela.dyn -j .reloc -j .eh_frame --output-target=efi-app-x86_64 boot1.sym boot1.efi objcopy: error: invalid output format: 'efi-app-x86_64' *** [boot1.efi] Error code 1 I guess this is fallout from the binutils migration and compiling 13-STABLE on 14-CURRENT host is a special case. Can this be fixed easily or is the migration process to immature at this point? Kind regards, Oliver Hartmann - -- O. Hartmann Ich widerspreche der Nutzung oder Übermittlung meiner Daten für Werbezwecke oder für die Markt- oder Meinungsforschung (§ 28 Abs. 4 BDSG). -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEARYKAB0WIQSy8IBxAPDkqVBaTJ44N1ZZPba5RwUCYUtsZgAKCRA4N1ZZPba5 R9JSAQDozG5xwFhGxPTbhOPCJ731/GrxdI0lfjERziGMbXbg7QEApvkWChAKg9NM Ztgos3LH/+1Q9/gQ9CTYQbebxgcRgQM= =8J4u -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- O. Hartmann
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT) "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > > > > confusing > > > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne > > > > shell > > > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > > > interactive mode: > > > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like > > > > other shells > > > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect > > > > $EDITOR) > > > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > > > > propose to > > > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not > > > > MFCed) > > > > > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make > > > > this > > > > proposal happen. > > > > > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' > > > from the > > > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would > > > probably > > > prefer removing it outright.) > > > > HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A > > small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not > > use toor. > > A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply > go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you > believe silence to be saying. > I use toor on every FreeBSD machine as the root login using bash. I never log in as root. But removing it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'd just put it back into /etc/passwd. > > > > [0]: https://twitter.com/HardenedBSD/status/1415781911063056389 > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Shawn Webb > > Cofounder / Security Engineer > > HardenedBSD > > > > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc > > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org > -- Gary Jennejohn
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote: > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne > shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect > $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not > MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make > this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' > from the > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > prefer removing it outright.) > I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the default password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Users that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts. Warner
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > > > confusing > > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne > > > shell > > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > > interactive mode: > > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > > > shells > > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect > > > $EDITOR) > > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > > > propose to > > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not > > > MFCed) > > > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make > > > this > > > proposal happen. > > > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' > > from the > > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > > prefer removing it outright.) > > HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A > small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not > use toor. A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you believe silence to be saying. > > [0]: https://twitter.com/HardenedBSD/status/1415781911063056389 > > Thanks, > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc -- Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > > confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > > shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > > propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from > the > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > prefer removing it outright.) HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not use toor. [0]: https://twitter.com/HardenedBSD/status/1415781911063056389 Thanks, -- Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably prefer removing it outright.) -- John Baldwin
Re: latest current fails to boot.
On 22/09/2021 16:09, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 David Wolfskill wrote: On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 This is a vm running on vmware. If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. uname -a FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either from yesterday: FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 r...@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 or today: FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 r...@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines in sync rather aggressively.] Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? Peace, david -- David H. Wolfskill da...@catwhisker.org Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. Failure mode: Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting hostid. For me a boot in single user works also.
Re: latest current fails to boot.
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 David Wolfskill wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > uname -a > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > from yesterday: > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 > r...@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY > amd64 1400033 1400033 > > or today: > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 > main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 > r...@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY > amd64 1400033 1400033 > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > in sync rather aggressively.] > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > Peace, > david > -- > David H. Wolfskill da...@catwhisker.org > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. Failure mode: Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting hostid. -- Tomoaki AOKI
Re: Using modern APIs in Rust on FreeBSD
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 06:27:09AM +0200, Damjan Jovanovic wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 6:08 AM Alan Somers wrote: > > > tldr; should the Rust ecosystem ditch FreeBSD 10 compat for new code? > > > > Rust uses FFI to talk to the OS's C library. That makes cross-compiling a > > breeze. Unfortunately, it also fossilizes the ABI. FreeBSD's libc makes > > careful use of ELF symbol versioning. That's how we were able to change > > ino_t to 64-bits while maintaining backwards-compatibility with old > > binaries, for example. But the Rust toolchain isn't able to take > > advantage. Right now, the toolchain uses a FreeBSD 10 ABI, and the libc > > crate (which virtually all crates depend on) uses a FreeBSD 11 ABI. > > > > How exactly is the ABI fossilized? If Rust's FFI uses run-time dynamic > linking, it should be able to use dlvsym() to access the correct version of > libc symbols. No, FFI does not use dynamic linking in dynamic sense, i.e. it does not utilize dlopen/dlsym. Rust directly calls into extern "C" functions, and this is quite useful feature, because using dlsym for everything you need from system libraries is beyond the pain point. Rust can link to specific version of the symbol, and libc uses this feature, like this: #[cfg_attr(all(target_os = "freebsd", freebsd11), link_name = "statfs@FBSD_1.0")] pub fn statfs(path: *const ::c_char, buf: *mut statfs) -> ::c_int; There it requests pre-ino64 statfs(). More, libc already has configurations for freebsd11 and later, as can be seen from the citation above. And I see nothing that would prevent libc from defining freebsd11 and freebsd12 variants of struct stat, struct statfs, struct dirent, and so on. That said, I definitely do not want spend (more) time on this. Due to the way libc is structured, to make an impression that definitions are shared between different *BSDs, it is extremely painful to add new bindings and not break other BSDs. I tried something as simple as adding missing MNT_XXX constants for mnt_flags and gave up after full day when I realized that I have to test on Net/Open/DragonflyBSD as well.
Re: latest current fails to boot.
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > This is a vm running on vmware. > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > uname -a > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 You did not provided any useful information. What is displayed on console if you press ^T ? What processes are running, what do they wait for?
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
+1 for keeping this behavior on default config On 22/09/21 06:19, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote: Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on history) On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! Best regards, Baptiste -- Renato Botelho
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On 2021-09-22 10:36:45, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. There are also prompt-related commits done by trasz: r342577 Make sh(1) collapse $HOME into "~" in PS1 r342576 Simplify the way we set the default sh(1) PS1 r342645 Add current working directory to the default sh prompt r342812 Give sh(1) a proper default prompt instead of just "$". r342881 Make sh(1) recognize the default $HOME r343231 Don't mess with BLOCKSIZE in shell startup files r343399 Make sh(1) support \u in PS1 r343416 Install .shrc for root, and set PS1 for the toor account. and this commit by me: r363621 sh(1): print a newline when ^D quits sh What I would like to see by default are these ctrl-arrow bindings in emacs mode and an alias for "history": bind "\\e[1;5C" em-next-word bind "\\e[1;5D" ed-prev-word alias history='fc -l' Piotr
Re: latest current fails to boot.
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > This is a vm running on vmware. > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > uname -a > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either from yesterday: FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 r...@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 or today: FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 r...@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines in sync rather aggressively.] Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? Peace, david -- David H. Wolfskill da...@catwhisker.org Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
latest current fails to boot.
I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 This is a vm running on vmware. If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. uname -a FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
+1 from me. On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 12:31, Chris Stephan wrote: > I completely agree. It will save me the ‘/bin/sh’ at the beginning of each > ‘su -‘ session. Also, it will simplify building extra small FreeBSD images, > allowing an easier removal of ‘csh’. > > I use csh from time to time, but I do wish it would take a much more > explicit action so my brain has switched over to ‘csh mode’. I won’t lie > that I’ve pasted script into my terminal and spent time troubleshooting why > the commands didn’t work only to realize I forgot to change to /bin/sh > first. > > Chris Stephan > > Sent from FreeBSD > > From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org > on behalf of Baptiste Daroussin > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM > To: curr...@freebsd.org ; a...@freebsd.org > > Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root > > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > confusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne > shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not > MFCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > proposal happen. > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > Best regards, > Baptiste > >
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
I completely agree. It will save me the ‘/bin/sh’ at the beginning of each ‘su -‘ session. Also, it will simplify building extra small FreeBSD images, allowing an easier removal of ‘csh’. I use csh from time to time, but I do wish it would take a much more explicit action so my brain has switched over to ‘csh mode’. I won’t lie that I’ve pasted script into my terminal and spent time troubleshooting why the commands didn’t work only to realize I forgot to change to /bin/sh first. Chris Stephan Sent from FreeBSD From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org on behalf of Baptiste Daroussin Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM To: curr...@freebsd.org ; a...@freebsd.org Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! Best regards, Baptiste
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
W dniu 22.09.2021 o 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin pisze: > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose > to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > proposal happen. > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > Best regards, > Baptiste > Is /bin/csh going to become default toor's default shell since then? -- Marek Zarychta OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 05:19:38AM -0400, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote: > Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example typing > part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on history) No, this is a csh specific behaviour. (not it can probably be doable via .shrc, but I haven't checked) Best regards, Bapt > > On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > > confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > > shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > > propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > Best regards, > > Baptiste > > >
Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on history) On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! Best regards, Baptiste smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
[HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! Best regards, Baptiste
