Re: Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
Still, it's my opinion that these BIOSes are simply broken: Joerg's personal opinion can go take a hike. The reality of the situation is that this table is required, and we're going to put it there. The reality of the situation is far from being clear. The only thing I can see is that you're trying to dictate things without adequate justification. You should reconsider that attitude. You can't substantiate your argument by closing your eyes, Greg. There's a wealth of evidence against your stance, and frankly, none that supports it other than myopic bigotry (I don't want to do this because Microsoft use this format). Are you going to stop using all of the other techniques that we share with them? -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
On Monday, 10 December 2001 at 0:17:14 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: Still, it's my opinion that these BIOSes are simply broken: Joerg's personal opinion can go take a hike. The reality of the situation is that this table is required, and we're going to put it there. The reality of the situation is far from being clear. The only thing I can see is that you're trying to dictate things without adequate justification. You should reconsider that attitude. You can't substantiate your argument by closing your eyes, Greg. No, of course not. I also can't substantiate my arguments by sticking my fingers down my throat and shouting dangerously dedicated!. But then, I wasn't doing either. Read back this thread for the evidence I have given and which you apparently choose to ignore. There's a wealth of evidence against your stance, Possibly, you just haven't shown it. What we know so far is that there are some kludges in the boot loader which can confuse BIOSes; peter went into some detail earlier on IRC. Only, they apply both to systems with Microsoft partitions and those without. And there are reports that some Adaptec host adaptors (or, presumably, their BIOSes) can't handle our particular boot blocks. It's possible, as peter suggests, that this is a fixable bug, but every time I mention it, I get shouted down. And yes, like Jörg, I don't care enough. I'm not saying ditch the Microsoft partition table, I'm saying don't ditch disks without the Microsoft partition table. Note also that, although this is so dangerous, it has never bitten me on any system. and frankly, none that supports it other than myopic bigotry (I don't want to do this because Microsoft use this format). None that you care to remember. Are you going to stop using all of the other techniques that we share with them? No. See above. What is it about this particular topic brings out such irrational emotions in you and others? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
Greg Lehey wrote: What is it about this particular topic brings out such irrational emotions in you and others? Everyone who has been around for any length of time has been bitten on the arse by it at one time or another, I think. I remember Alfred made a Lapbrick out of a system a while back ;^). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
What is it about this particular topic brings out such irrational emotions in you and others? Because you define as irrational those opinions that don't agree with your own. I don't consider my stance irrational at all, and I find your leaps past logic and commonsense quite irrational in return. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
On Sunday, 9 December 2001 at 12:15:19 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: As Peter Wemm wrote: There shouldn't *be* bootblocks on non-boot disks. dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da$n count=1 Dont use disklabel -B -rw da$n auto. Use disklabel -rw da$n auto. All my disks have bootblocks and (spare) boot partitions. All the bootblocks are DD mode. I don't see any point in using obsolete fdisk tables. (There's IMHO only one purpose obsolete fdisk tables are good for, co-operation with other operating systems in the same machine. None of my machines uses anything else than FreeBSD.) Since I tire of seeing people hit this ignorant opinion in the list archives, I'll just offer the rational counterpoints. - The MBR partition table is not obsolete, it's a part of the PC architecture specification. And if it's part of the PC architecture specification, it can't be obsolete? I dont see any contradiction here. - You omit the fact that many peripheral device vendors' BIOS code looks for the MBR partition table, and will fail if it's not present or incorrect. What do you mean by peripheral device? I've never heard of disk drives having a BIOS. If you're talking about host adaptors, it's you who omit what Jörg says about it: No, on the contrary, he went into some detail on this point: On Sunday, 9 December 2001 at 19:46:06 +0100, Joerg Wunsch wrote: personal opinion Still, it's my opinion that these BIOSes are simply broken: interpretation of the fdisk table has always been in the realm of the boot block itself. The BIOS should decide whether a disk is bootable or not by looking at the 0x55aa signature at the end, nothing else. Think of the old OnTrack Disk Manager that extended the fdisk table to 16 slots -- nothing the BIOS could ever even handle. It was in the realm of the boot block to interpret it. /personal opinion I agree with Jörg on this. I'd love to never hear those invalid, unuseful, misleading opinions from you again. I'd love to never have to see this level of invective poured onto what was previously a calm discussion. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
On Sunday, 9 December 2001 at 19:46:06 +0100, Joerg Wunsch wrote: personal opinion Still, it's my opinion that these BIOSes are simply broken: Joerg's personal opinion can go take a hike. The reality of the situation is that this table is required, and we're going to put it there. End of story. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Dangerously Decidated yet again (was : cvs commit: src/sys/kern subr_diskmbr.c)
On Sunday, 9 December 2001 at 18:32:38 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: On Sunday, 9 December 2001 at 19:46:06 +0100, Joerg Wunsch wrote: personal opinion Still, it's my opinion that these BIOSes are simply broken: Joerg's personal opinion can go take a hike. The reality of the situation is that this table is required, and we're going to put it there. The reality of the situation is far from being clear. The only thing I can see is that you're trying to dictate things without adequate justification. You should reconsider that attitude. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
