Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:16:02PM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I did. Loaned two SCSI disks and 50-pin cable. Things haven't improved a bit, I'm very sorry to say it. Sorry for the slow reply to this. I thought it would make sense to try things out here, and so I kept trying to find time, but I have to admit I just don't have it yet for a while. I haven't forgotten, and I hope that in a few weeks time I can spend some time chasing down a whole lot of Vinum issues. This is definitely the worst I have seen, and I'm really puzzled why it always happens to you. # simulate disk crash by forcing one arbitrary subdisk down # seems that vinum doesn't return values for command completion status # checking? echo Stopping subdisk.. degraded mode vinum stop -f r5.p0.s3 # assume it was successful I wonder if there's something relating to stop -f that doesn't happen during a normal failure. But this was exactly the way I tested it in the first place. Thank you Greg, I really appreciate your ongoing effort for making vinum stable, trusted volume manager. I have to add some facts to the mix. Raidframe on the same hardware does not have any problems. The later tests I conducted was done under -stable, because I couldn't get raidframe to work under -current, system did panic everytime at the end of initialisation of parity (raidctl -iv raid?). So I used the raidframe patch for -stable at http://people.freebsd.org/~scottl/rf/2001-08-28-RAIDframe-stable.diff.gz Had to do some patching by hand, but otherwise works well. Will it suffice to switch off power for one disk to simulate more real-world disk failure? Are there any hidden pitfalls for failing and restoring operation of non-hotswap disks? -- Vallo Kallaste To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Friday, 14 March 2003 at 10:05:28 +0200, Vallo Kallaste wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:16:02PM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I did. Loaned two SCSI disks and 50-pin cable. Things haven't improved a bit, I'm very sorry to say it. Sorry for the slow reply to this. I thought it would make sense to try things out here, and so I kept trying to find time, but I have to admit I just don't have it yet for a while. I haven't forgotten, and I hope that in a few weeks time I can spend some time chasing down a whole lot of Vinum issues. This is definitely the worst I have seen, and I'm really puzzled why it always happens to you. # simulate disk crash by forcing one arbitrary subdisk down # seems that vinum doesn't return values for command completion status # checking? echo Stopping subdisk.. degraded mode vinum stop -f r5.p0.s3 # assume it was successful I wonder if there's something relating to stop -f that doesn't happen during a normal failure. But this was exactly the way I tested it in the first place. Thank you Greg, I really appreciate your ongoing effort for making vinum stable, trusted volume manager. I have to add some facts to the mix. Raidframe on the same hardware does not have any problems. The later tests I conducted was done under -stable, because I couldn't get raidframe to work under -current, system did panic everytime at the end of initialisation of parity (raidctl -iv raid?). So I used the raidframe patch for -stable at http://people.freebsd.org/~scottl/rf/2001-08-28-RAIDframe-stable.diff.gz Had to do some patching by hand, but otherwise works well. I don't think that problems with RAIDFrame are related to these problems with Vinum. I seem to remember a commit to the head branch recently (in the last 12 months) relating to the problem you've seen. I forget exactly where it went (it wasn't from me), and in cursory searching I couldn't find it. It's possible that it hasn't been MFC'd, which would explain your problem. If you have a 5.0 machine, it would be interesting to see if you can reproduce it there. Will it suffice to switch off power for one disk to simulate more real-world disk failure? Are there any hidden pitfalls for failing and restoring operation of non-hotswap disks? I don't think so. It was more thinking aloud than anything else. As I said above, this is the way I tested things in the first place. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Saturday, 1 March 2003 at 20:43:10 +0200, Vallo Kallaste wrote: On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 11:53:02AM +0200, Vallo Kallaste vallo wrote: The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Yes, we've fixed a bug in that area. It had nothing to do with soft updates, though. Oh, that's very good news, thank you! Yes, it had nothing to do with soft updates at all and that's why I had the remained after in the sentence. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. IIRC the rebuild bug bit any striped configuration. Ok, I definitely had problems only with R5, but you certainly know much better what it was exactly. I'll need to lend 50-pin SCSI cable and test vinum again. Will it matter on what version of FreeBSD I'll try on? My home system runs -current of Feb 5, but if you suggest -stable for consistent results, I'll do it. So I did. Loaned two SCSI disks and 50-pin cable. Things haven't improved a bit, I'm very sorry to say it. Sorry for the slow reply to this. I thought it would make sense to try things out here, and so I kept trying to find time, but I have to admit I just don't have it yet for a while. I haven't forgotten, and I hope that in a few weeks time I can spend some time chasing down a whole lot of Vinum issues. This is definitely the worst I have seen, and I'm really puzzled why it always happens to you. # simulate disk crash by forcing one arbitrary subdisk down # seems that vinum doesn't return values for command completion status # checking? echo Stopping subdisk.. degraded mode vinum stop -f r5.p0.s3# assume it was successful I wonder if there's something relating to stop -f that doesn't happen during a normal failure. But this was exactly the way I tested it in the first place. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 11:53:02AM +0200, Vallo Kallaste vallo wrote: The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Yes, we've fixed a bug in that area. It had nothing to do with soft updates, though. Oh, that's very good news, thank you! Yes, it had nothing to do with soft updates at all and that's why I had the remained after in the sentence. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. IIRC the rebuild bug bit any striped configuration. Ok, I definitely had problems only with R5, but you certainly know much better what it was exactly. I'll need to lend 50-pin SCSI cable and test vinum again. Will it matter on what version of FreeBSD I'll try on? My home system runs -current of Feb 5, but if you suggest -stable for consistent results, I'll do it. So I did. Loaned two SCSI disks and 50-pin cable. Things haven't improved a bit, I'm very sorry to say it. The entire test session (script below) was done in single user. To be fair, I did tens of them, and the mode doesn't matter. Complete script: Script started on Sat Mar 1 19:54:45 2003 # pwd /root # dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-2003 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Feb 2 16:16:49 EET 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/home/vallo/Kevad-5.0 Preloaded elf kernel /boot/kernel/kernel at 0xc0516000. Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/vinum.ko at 0xc05160b4. Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/ahc_pci.ko at 0xc0516160. Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/ahc.ko at 0xc051620c. Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/cam.ko at 0xc05162b4. Timecounter i8254 frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter TSC frequency 132955356 Hz CPU: Pentium/P54C (132.96-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x526 Stepping = 6 Features=0x1bfFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,MCE,CX8 real memory = 67108864 (64 MB) avail memory = 59682816 (56 MB) Intel Pentium detected, installing workaround for F00F bug Initializing GEOMetry subsystem VESA: v2.0, 4096k memory, flags:0x0, mode table:0xc037dec2 (122) VESA: ATI MACH64 npx0: math processor on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: Host to PCI bridge at pcibus 0 on motherboard pci0: PCI bus on pcib0 isab0: PCI-ISA bridge at device 7.0 on pci0 isa0: ISA bus on isab0 atapci0: Intel PIIX ATA controller port 0xff90-0xff9f at device 7.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 ahc0: Adaptec 2940 Ultra SCSI adapter port 0xf800-0xf8ff mem 0xffbee000-0xffbeefff irq 10 at device 13.0 on pci0 aic7880: Ultra Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/253 SCBs pci0: display, VGA at device 14.0 (no driver attached) atapci1: Promise ATA66 controller port 0xff00-0xff3f,0xffe0-0xffe3,0xffa8-0xffaf,0xffe4-0xffe7,0xfff0-0xfff7 mem 0xffbc-0xffbd irq 11 at device 15.0 on pci0 ata2: at 0xfff0 on atapci1 ata3: at 0xffa8 on atapci1 orm0: Option ROMs at iomem 0xed000-0xedfff,0xca000-0xca7ff,0xc8000-0xc9fff,0xc-0xc7fff on isa0 atkbdc0: Keyboard controller (i8042) at port 0x64,0x60 on isa0 atkbd0: AT Keyboard flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 ed0 at port 0x300-0x31f iomem 0xd8000 irq 5 on isa0 ed0: address 00:80:c8:37:e2:a6, type NE2000 (16 bit) fdc0: Enhanced floppy controller (i82077, NE72065 or clone) at port 0x3f7,0x3f0-0x3f5 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0 fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1440-KB 3.5 drive on fdc0 drive 0 ppc0: Parallel port at port 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa0 ppc0: Generic chipset (EPP/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode lpt0: Printer on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: Parallel I/O on ppbus0 sc0: System console at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA 5 virtual consoles, flags=0x300 sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 sio0: type 16550A sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa0 sio1: type 16550A vga0: Generic ISA VGA at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa-0xb on isa0 unknown: PNP0303 can't assign resources (port) unknown: PNP0700 can't assign resources (port) unknown: PNP0401 can't assign resources (port) unknown: PNP0501 can't assign resources (port) unknown: PNP0501 can't assign resources (port) Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec ata0-slave: ATAPI identify retries exceeded ad4: 2445MB QUANTUM FIREBALL EL2.5A [5300/15/63] at ata2-master UDMA33 ad6: 2423MB SAMSUNG WU32553A (2.54GB) [4924/16/63] at ata3-master UDMA33 acd0: CDROM WPI CDD-820 at ata0-master PIO3 Waiting 15 seconds for SCSI devices to settle da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 11:59:59AM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The crashes and anomalies with filesystem residing on R5 volume were related to vinum(R5)/softupdates combo. Well, at one point we suspected that. But the cases I have seen were based on a misassumption. Do you have any concrete evidence that points to that particular combination? Don't have any other evidence than the case I was describing. After changing my employer I hadn't had much time or motivation to try again. The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Yes, we've fixed a bug in that area. It had nothing to do with soft updates, though. Oh, that's very good news, thank you! Yes, it had nothing to do with soft updates at all and that's why I had the remained after in the sentence. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. IIRC the rebuild bug bit any striped configuration. Ok, I definitely had problems only with R5, but you certainly know much better what it was exactly. I'll need to lend 50-pin SCSI cable and test vinum again. Will it matter on what version of FreeBSD I'll try on? My home system runs -current of Feb 5, but if you suggest -stable for consistent results, I'll do it. Thanks -- Vallo Kallaste To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Friday, 21 February 2003 at 10:00:46 +0200, Vallo Kallaste wrote: On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 02:28:45PM -0800, Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vallo Kallaste [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll second Brad's statement about vinum and softupdates interactions. My last experiments with vinum were more than half a year ago, but I guess it still holds. BTW, the interactions showed up _only_ on R5 volumes. I had 6 disk (SCSI) R5 volume in Compaq Proliant 3000 and the system was very stable before I enabled softupdates.. and of course after I disabled softupdates. In between there were crashes and nasty problems with filesystem. Unfortunately it was production system and I hadn't chanche to play. Did you believe that the crashes were caused by enabling softupdates on an R5 vinum volume, or were the crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates? I can see how crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates might trash vinum filesystems. The crashes and anomalies with filesystem residing on R5 volume were related to vinum(R5)/softupdates combo. Well, at one point we suspected that. But the cases I have seen were based on a misassumption. Do you have any concrete evidence that points to that particular combination? The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Yes, we've fixed a bug in that area. It had nothing to do with soft updates, though. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. IIRC the rebuild bug bit any striped configuration. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Friday, 21 February 2003 at 1:56:56 -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: Vallo Kallaste wrote: The crashes and anomalies with filesystem residing on R5 volume were related to vinum(R5)/softupdates combo. The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. I think this is an expected problem with a lot of concatenation, whether through Vinum, GEOM, RAIDFrame, or whatever. Can you be more specific? What you say below doesn't address any basic difference between virtual and real disks. This comes about for the same reason that you can't mount -u to turn Soft Updates from off to on: Soft Updates does not tolerate dirty buffers for which a dependency does not exist, and will crap out when a pending dirty buffer causes a write. I don't understand what this has to do with virtual disks. This could be fixed in the mount -u case for Soft Updates, and it can also be fixed for Vinum (et. al.). The key is the difference between a mount -u vs. a umount ; mount, which comes down to flushing and invalidating all buffers on the underlying device, e.g.: vn_lock(devvp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, p); vinvalbuf(devvp, V_SAVE, NOCRED, p, 0, 0); error = VOP_CLOSE(devvp, ronly ? FREAD : FREAD|FWRITE, FSCRED, p); error = VOP_OPEN(devvp, ronly ? FREAD : FREAD|FWRITE, FSCRED, p); VOP_UNLOCK(devvp, 0, p); ... Basically, after rebuilding, before allowing the mount to proceed, the Vinum (and GEOM and RAIDFRame, etc.) code needs to cause all the pending dirty buffers to be written. This will guarantee that there are no outstanding dirty buffers at mount time, which in turn guarantees that there will be no dirty buffers that the dependency tracking in Soft Updates does not know about. I don't understand what you're assuming here. Certainly I can't see any relevance to Vinum, RAIDframe or any other virtual disk system. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
Terry Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is an expected problem with a lot of concatenation, whether through Vinum, GEOM, RAIDFrame, or whatever. This comes about for the same reason that you can't mount -u to turn Soft Updates from off to on: Soft Updates does not tolerate dirty buffers for which a dependency does not exist, and will crap out when a pending dirty buffer causes a write. Does this affect background fsck, too (on regular, non-vinum filesystems)? From what little I know of bg fsck, I'm guessing not, but I'd like to be sure. Thanks. -- Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
Darryl Okahata wrote: Terry Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is an expected problem with a lot of concatenation, whether through Vinum, GEOM, RAIDFrame, or whatever. This comes about for the same reason that you can't mount -u to turn Soft Updates from off to on: Soft Updates does not tolerate dirty buffers for which a dependency does not exist, and will crap out when a pending dirty buffer causes a write. Does this affect background fsck, too (on regular, non-vinum filesystems)? From what little I know of bg fsck, I'm guessing not, but I'd like to be sure. Thanks. No, it doesn't. Background fsck works by assuming that the only thing that could contain bad data is the cylinder group bitmaps, which means the worst case failure is some blocks are not available for reallocation. It works by taking a snapshot, which is a feature that allows modification of the FS while the bgfsck's idea of the FS remains unchanged. Then it goes through the bitmaps, verifying that the blocks it thinks are allocated are in fact allocated by files within the snapshot. Basically, it's only job is really to clear bits in the bitmap that represent blocks for which there are no files referencing them. There are situations where bgfsck can fail, sometimes catastrophically, but they are unrelated to having dirty blocks in memory for which no updates have been created. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
On Thu, Feb 20, 2003 at 02:28:45PM -0800, Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vallo Kallaste [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll second Brad's statement about vinum and softupdates interactions. My last experiments with vinum were more than half a year ago, but I guess it still holds. BTW, the interactions showed up _only_ on R5 volumes. I had 6 disk (SCSI) R5 volume in Compaq Proliant 3000 and the system was very stable before I enabled softupdates.. and of course after I disabled softupdates. In between there were crashes and nasty problems with filesystem. Unfortunately it was production system and I hadn't chanche to play. Did you believe that the crashes were caused by enabling softupdates on an R5 vinum volume, or were the crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates? I can see how crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates might trash vinum filesystems. The crashes and anomalies with filesystem residing on R5 volume were related to vinum(R5)/softupdates combo. The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. -- Vallo Kallaste [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Vinum R5 [was: Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk]
Vallo Kallaste wrote: The crashes and anomalies with filesystem residing on R5 volume were related to vinum(R5)/softupdates combo. The vinum R5 and system as a whole were stable without softupdates. Only one problem remained after disabling softupdates, while being online and user I/O going on, rebuilding of failed disk corrupt the R5 volume completely. Don't know is it fixed or not as I don't have necessary hardware at the moment. The only way around was to quiesce the volume before rebuilding, umount it, and wait until rebuild finished. I'll suggest extensive testing cycle for everyone who's going to work with vinum R5. Concat, striping and mirroring has been a breeze but not so with R5. I think this is an expected problem with a lot of concatenation, whether through Vinum, GEOM, RAIDFrame, or whatever. This comes about for the same reason that you can't mount -u to turn Soft Updates from off to on: Soft Updates does not tolerate dirty buffers for which a dependency does not exist, and will crap out when a pending dirty buffer causes a write. This could be fixed in the mount -u case for Soft Updates, and it can also be fixed for Vinum (et. al.). The key is the difference between a mount -u vs. a umount ; mount, which comes down to flushing and invalidating all buffers on the underlying device, e.g.: vn_lock(devvp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, p); vinvalbuf(devvp, V_SAVE, NOCRED, p, 0, 0); error = VOP_CLOSE(devvp, ronly ? FREAD : FREAD|FWRITE, FSCRED, p); error = VOP_OPEN(devvp, ronly ? FREAD : FREAD|FWRITE, FSCRED, p); VOP_UNLOCK(devvp, 0, p); ... Basically, after rebuilding, before allowing the mount to proceed, the Vinum (and GEOM and RAIDFRame, etc.) code needs to cause all the pending dirty buffers to be written. This will guarantee that there are no outstanding dirty buffers at mount time, which in turn guarantees that there will be no dirty buffers that the dependency tracking in Soft Updates does not know about. FWIW: I've maintained for over 6 years now that the mount update code should be modified to do this automatically (and provided patches; see early 1997 mailing list archives), essentially turning a mount -u into a umount ; mount, without invalidating outstanding vnodes and in-core inodes or their references (so that open files do not break... they just get all their buffers taken away from them). Of course, the only open files that matter for device layering are the device exporting the layered block store, and the underlying component block stores that make it up (i.e. no open files there). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
Vallo Kallaste [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll second Brad's statement about vinum and softupdates interactions. My last experiments with vinum were more than half a year ago, but I guess it still holds. BTW, the interactions showed up _only_ on R5 volumes. I had 6 disk (SCSI) R5 volume in Compaq Proliant 3000 and the system was very stable before I enabled softupdates.. and of course after I disabled softupdates. In between there were crashes and nasty problems with filesystem. Unfortunately it was production system and I hadn't chanche to play. Did you believe that the crashes were caused by enabling softupdates on an R5 vinum volume, or were the crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates? I can see how crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates might trash vinum filesystems. -- Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
At 2:28 PM -0800 2003/02/20, Darryl Okahata wrote: Did you believe that the crashes were caused by enabling softupdates on an R5 vinum volume, or were the crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates? I can see how crashes unrelated to vinum/softupdates might trash vinum filesystems. Using RAID-5 under vinum was always a somewhat tricky business for me, but in many cases I could get it to work reasonably well most of the time. But if I enabled softupdates on that filesystem, I was toast. Softupdates enabled on filesystems that were not on top of vinum RAID-5 logical devices seemed to be fine. So, the interaction that I personally witnessed was specifically between vinum RAID-5 and softupdates. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++): a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI$ P+++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+() DI+() D+(++) G+() e++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
David Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IIRC, Kirk was trying to reproduce this a little while ago in response to similar reports. He would probably be interested in any new information. I don't have any useful information, but I do have a data point: My 5.0-RELEASE system recently mysteriously panic'd, which resulted in a partially trashed UFS1 filesystem, which caused bg fsck to hang. Details: * The panic was weird, in that only the first 4-6 characters of the first function (in the panic stacktrace) was displayed on the console (sorry, forgot what it was). Nothing else past that point was shown, and the console was locked up. Ddb was compiled into the kernel, but ctrl-esc did nothing. * The UFS1 filesystem in question (and I assume that it was UFS1, as I did not specify a filesystem type to newfs) is located on a RAID5 vinum volume, consisting of five 80GB disks. * Softupdates is enabled. * When bg fsck hung (w/no disk activity), I could break into the ddb. Unfortunately, I don't know how to use ddb, aside from ps. * Disabling bg fsck allowed the system to boot. However, fg fsck failed, and I had to do a manual fsck, which spewed lots of nasty SOFTUPDATE INCONSISTENCY errors. * Disturbingly (but fortunately), I then unmounted the filesystem (in multi-user mode) and re-ran fsck, and fsck still found errors. There should not have been any errors, as fg fsck just finished running. [ Unfortunately, I've forgotten what they were, and an umount/fsck done right now shows no problems. I think the errors were one of the incorrect block count errors. ] * After the fsck, some files were partially truncated ( corrupted?). After investigating, I believe these truncated files (which were NOT recently modified) were in a directory in which other files were being created/written at the time of the panic. -- Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
At 9:15 AM -0800 2003/02/19, Darryl Okahata wrote: * The UFS1 filesystem in question (and I assume that it was UFS1, as I did not specify a filesystem type to newfs) is located on a RAID5 vinum volume, consisting of five 80GB disks. * Softupdates is enabled. You know, vinum softupdates have had bad interactions with each other for as long as I can remember. Has this truly been a consistent thing (as I seem to recall), or has this been an on-again/off-again situation? -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++): a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI$ P+++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+() DI+() D+(++) G+() e++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know, vinum softupdates have had bad interactions with each other for as long as I can remember. Has this truly been a consistent thing (as I seem to recall), or has this been an on-again/off-again situation? Ah, yaaah. Hmm This is the first I've heard of that, but I can see how that could be. Could vinum be considered to be a form of (unintentional) write-caching? That might explain how the filesystem got terribly hosed, but it doesn't help with the panic. Foo. [ This is on a system that's been running in the current state for around a month. So far, it's panic'd once (a week or so ago), and so I don't have any feel for long-term stability. We'll see how it goes. ] -- Darryl Okahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
Hi all, I just wanted to tell that I can deadlock one of my current boxes with a ufs2 filesystem on a 120GB ATA disk. I can reproduce the problem. The background fsck process hangs some time at the same place always at the same place, sometimes the box freezes after some time. The same box works fine with ufs1. Martin Martin Blapp, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ImproWare AG, UNIXSP ISP, Zurlindenstrasse 29, 4133 Pratteln, CH Phone: +41 61 826 93 00 Fax: +41 61 826 93 01 PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Fingerprint: B434 53FC C87C FE7B 0A18 B84C 8686 EF22 D300 551E -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: background fsck deadlocks with ufs2 and big disk
Thus spake Martin Blapp [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I just wanted to tell that I can deadlock one of my current boxes with a ufs2 filesystem on a 120GB ATA disk. I can reproduce the problem. The background fsck process hangs some time at the same place always at the same place, sometimes the box freezes after some time. The same box works fine with ufs1. IIRC, Kirk was trying to reproduce this a little while ago in response to similar reports. He would probably be interested in any new information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
