Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
[Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Your MUA is a known text mutilator. You'd be better off getting a UNIX-based MUA: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 On Wednesday, 20 June 2001 at 11:16:18 +0200, Jeroen Massar wrote: Jordan Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's the BSD license for ya. There needs to be a license that says something to the effect of Anyone can use/buy/sell/modify/distribute this software with or without source code except Microsoft. Why? I'd personally be happy if Microsoft software was made a lot easier to use by incorporating BSD stuff. Imagine, a Windows 2000 firewall that didn't suck rocks, or DHCP renegotiation that didn't drop all my active connections by default when my modem hung up unexpectedly... It would be nice! Heheh. just looks like that Wallstreet journal thingy... complaining without even looking into it and thus stating loose unfounded facts, making you look very silly IMHO. It does? The article was written in cooperation with the FreeBSD project, and I think it was very well done. Perhaps you have some details you're withholding. I don't know what you define by ease of use, but that's probably personal and depends on what you want to use something for and not to forget how to use it :) OK, try replying to this message with your broken MUA and *fix* *up* all the breakage it causes. People don't do it because it's too difficult. I did it with my setup because I can't read it otherwise, and it's not too difficult. Which is easy to use? You might like to type a 'netsh.exe' to come into the Net Shell with all kinds of nice commands, you'll prolly like it :) I strongly doubt it. For your unexpected hang ups: Q239924 - How to Disable Media Sense for TCP/IP in Windows 2000 http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q239/9/24.ASP Description: This parameter controls DHCP Media Sense behavior. If you set this value data to 1, DHCP, and even non-DHCP, clients ignore Media Sense events from the interface. By default, Media Sense events trigger the DHCP client to take an action, such as attempting to obtain a lease (when a connect event occurs), or invalidating the interface and routes (when a disconnect event occurs). Which will fix your problems... You should really start using MSDN (or google which will also find it) instead of complaining without doing the proper research... In the unix/bsd/* world they call that RTFM - nicely said: Read The Faq and Manual, oh and don't forget to understand it either... Well, no, what Jordan was referring to was a bug, not a feature. And we don't need MSDN. We don't need Microsoft. On another note... something I already mailed in the former discussions: Port from UNIX to Win32: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/devprods/vs6/visualc/vccore/_core_port _from_unix_to_win32.htm Your MUA broke the URL. Microsoft broke the page. It comes out blank on my browser. Maybe it's optimized to use Microsoft-only browsers. And for the rest using BSD sockets is quite easy one only needs to open the winsock.dll What will you find inside? and as it's using the BSD API it's quite easy to port it and winsock also allows ease of use with IPX, XNS, DECnet and others... Native NT/Win32 apps are usually written with the use of Events (WSAEventSelect() etc...) but that's a completely different subject, altough it also shows a bit of the part of the internal workings of the stack as they surely won't do a select() on filedescripts, though it looks the same it ain't :) I'm not sure what you're referring to. Recall that people here don't use Microsoft. The only thing people are really slamming Microsoft here is being hypocritical. Actually using BSD code is an action I support for any value of the licensee string. :) Microsoft Windows BSD naah... though you could make a BSD subsystem and plug that straight into NT... But that's what they have the POSIX subsystem for and not to forget Interix (http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWS2000/interix/). You're missing the point. Hopes that clears some of the mess up for you. Not really. You seem to have completely missed the point, and I had to clean up your mess for you. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
RE: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
Jordan Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's the BSD license for ya. There needs to be a license that says something to the effect of Anyone can use/buy/sell/modify/distribute this software with or without source code except Microsoft. Why? I'd personally be happy if Microsoft software was made a lot easier to use by incorporating BSD stuff. Imagine, a Windows 2000 firewall that didn't suck rocks, or DHCP renegotiation that didn't drop all my active connections by default when my modem hung up unexpectedly... It would be nice! Heheh. just looks like that Wallstreet journal thingy... complaining without even looking into it and thus stating loose unfounded facts, making you look very silly IMHO. That guy claiming to be from spider did clear up some facts now didn't it. I don't know what you define by ease of use, but that's probably personal and depends on what you want to use something for and not to forget how to use it :) You might like to type a 'netsh.exe' to come into the Net Shell with all kinds of nice commands, you'll prolly like it :) For your unexpected hang ups: Q239924 - How to Disable Media Sense for TCP/IP in Windows 2000 http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q239/9/24.ASP Description: This parameter controls DHCP Media Sense behavior. If you set this value data to 1, DHCP, and even non-DHCP, clients ignore Media Sense events from the interface. By default, Media Sense events trigger the DHCP client to take an action, such as attempting to obtain a lease (when a connect event occurs), or invalidating the interface and routes (when a disconnect event occurs). Which will fix your problems... You should really start using MSDN (or google which will also find it) instead of complaining without doing the proper research... In the unix/bsd/* world they call that RTFM - nicely said: Read The Faq and Manual, oh and don't forget to understand it either... Just for the reference: http://msdn.microsoft.com - search on disconnect tcp ip 2000 et voila the second the link, yes you need to now the good searching terms but that's required too when one uses google or others :) On another note... something I already mailed in the former discussions: Port from UNIX to Win32: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/devprods/vs6/visualc/vccore/_core_port _from_unix_to_win32.htm And for the rest using BSD sockets is quite easy one only needs to open the winsock.dll and as it's using the BSD API it's quite easy to port it and winsock also allows ease of use with IPX, XNS, DECnet and others... Native NT/Win32 apps are usually written with the use of Events (WSAEventSelect() etc...) but that's a completely different subject, altough it also shows a bit of the part of the internal workings of the stack as they surely won't do a select() on filedescripts, though it looks the same it ain't :) The only thing people are really slamming Microsoft here is being hypocritical. Actually using BSD code is an action I support for any value of the licensee string. :) Microsoft Windows BSD naah... though you could make a BSD subsystem and plug that straight into NT... But that's what they have the POSIX subsystem for and not to forget Interix (http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWS2000/interix/). Hopes that clears some of the mess up for you. Greets, Jeroen To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
FYA. Migrating Microsoft® Hotmail® from FreeBSD to Microsoft Windows® 2000 Technical Case Study http://www.microsoft.com/TechNet/migration/hotmail/hotapp.asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
On Monday 18 June 2001 18:45, Hal Snyder wrote: FYA. Migrating Microsoft® Hotmail® from FreeBSD to Microsoft Windows® 2000 Technical Case Study http://www.microsoft.com/TechNet/migration/hotmail/hotapp .asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message point made. they're migrating to 2K because 2K is just a false OS because all MS does is steal the shit from the BSD platform anyway. think about it. using 2K for mail instead of FreeBSD? you've got to be kidding. and just where did 2K acquire this 'amazing' ability to serve up mail/become remote control/not have to be rebooted. DUH. they stole the fucking core from BSD and put it in their shit. oh, wait...i'm sorry...M$ is the leader of innovation. nice article. it pisses me off. :) the only thing good about M$ is they make a decent GUI...that's it. -- +- + Jeffrey M. Reed + Linux System Administrator + Metro West Boston Linux User Group + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + (508)792-6070 +- To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
RE: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
That's the BSD license for ya. There needs to be a license that says something to the effect of Anyone can use/buy/sell/modify/distribute this software with or without source code except Microsoft. jeremiah(); -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jeffrey M. Reed Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 10:03 AM To: Hal Snyder; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect) On Monday 18 June 2001 18:45, Hal Snyder wrote: FYA. Migrating Microsoft® Hotmail® from FreeBSD to Microsoft Windows® 2000 Technical Case Study http://www.microsoft.com/TechNet/migration/hotmail/hotapp .asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message point made. they're migrating to 2K because 2K is just a false OS because all MS does is steal the shit from the BSD platform anyway. think about it. using 2K for mail instead of FreeBSD? you've got to be kidding. and just where did 2K acquire this 'amazing' ability to serve up mail/become remote control/not have to be rebooted. DUH. they stole the fucking core from BSD and put it in their shit. oh, wait...i'm sorry...M$ is the leader of innovation. nice article. it pisses me off. :) the only thing good about M$ is they make a decent GUI...that's it. -- +- + Jeffrey M. Reed + Linux System Administrator + Metro West Boston Linux User Group + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + (508)792-6070 +- To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
* Jeffrey M. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] [010619 19:01] wrote: On Monday 18 June 2001 18:45, Hal Snyder wrote: FYA. Migrating Microsoft® Hotmail® from FreeBSD to Microsoft Windows® 2000 Technical Case Study http://www.microsoft.com/TechNet/migration/hotmail/hotapp .asp To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message point made. they're migrating to 2K because 2K is just a [snip] No actually they migrated because thier sales people kept getting laughed at because Hotmail was running on something other than win2k. the only thing good about M$ is they make a decent GUI...that's it. Not that X is so wonderful, but please.. The MS windows GUI is boring, and overbearing, it lacks remote display without add-on and there's very little flexiblity in what your desktop can do. The look and feel of Windows sucks rocks, the only thing they(*) got right was being able to do a decent job with drag and drop. (*) by they, I mean Apple of course. :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
stop being bastards. heh. i don't give a rat's ass about any of this. it just makes me mad/laugh that people are dumb enough to buy into that .net/hotmail/subscription based bullshit and other stuff. if you use it, i really don't care. in fact, M$ has been swell about helping the economy and all that shit...helping people get jobs. i just can't stand the fact that while 2K is decent, 'Me' is a piece of crap and they sell it to these poor stupid AOL/email people (hey, what the hell...i used to be one) and they slap the all-american M$ label on it and...ARGH! i'm not making any points here so screw it. go program something already. :) besides, a devil is much more macho than a gay little pastel colored window or something dumb called 'Me'...fucking marketing geniouses. :\ and, i have nothing against gay people either...as long as they're not playing loud GAY music that i can hear. hehehhehehhe. On Tuesday 19 June 2001 21:42, Jordan Hubbard wrote: From: Jeremiah Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:03:46 +1000 That's the BSD license for ya. There needs to be a license that says something to the effect of Anyone can use/buy/sell/modify/distribute this software with or without source code except Microsoft. Why? I'd personally be happy if Microsoft software was made a lot easier to use by incorporating BSD stuff. Imagine, a Windows 2000 firewall that didn't suck rocks, or DHCP renegotiation that didn't drop all my active connections by default when my modem hung up unexpectedly... It would be nice! The only thing people are really slamming Microsoft here is being hypocritical. Actually using BSD code is an action I support for any value of the licensee string. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message -- +- + Jeffrey M. Reed + Linux System Administrator + Metro West Boston Linux User Group + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + (508)792-6070 +- To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
Jonathan Slivko wrote: While I didn't read the article (I saw it when someone was reading the opposite page on the subway today), I thought it might make for some interesting conversation and views on the list. I will try and get a URL for you all to look at later. Thanks. -- Jonathan It already has been posted at http://www.daemonnews.org/ Jim -- /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign . \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . X - NO Word docs in e-mail . / \ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power to Serve [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.TheHousleys.net - Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
RE: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
Like I posted eariler.. http://public.wsj.com/news/hmc/sb992819157437237260.htm Regards Ak While I didn't read the article (I saw it when someone was reading the opposite page on the subway today), I thought it might make for some interesting conversation and views on the list. I will try and get a URL for you all to look at later. Thanks. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
As I understand the BSD license anyone can use it, however, they must say that they are using it, no? So if MS is using TCP/IP code (or any other code from FreeBSD), are they not in violation of the license by not including such a clause in their license or documentation? What am I missing here? Matthew At 09:14 AM 6/18/2001 -0700, Matt Dillon wrote: : :http://public.wsj.com/news/hmc/sb992819157437237260.htm Ahhh very nice. BSD is more viral then GPL it would seem :-) It will be interesting to see if MS now tries to rewrite TCP/IP. I got dibs on the front row aisle seat! Where's the popcorn? -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
+ Matthew Hagerty wrote: | As I understand the BSD license anyone can use it, however, they must say | that they are using it, no? So if MS is using TCP/IP code (or any other | code from FreeBSD), are they not in violation of the license by not | including such a clause in their license or documentation? What am I | missing here? You are missing the fact that MS presents to the public the concept of open source licenses having a viral nature and open source projects being insecure. They use the term open source, while actually implying GPL, while the insecure thing is outright false - based on the number of reported bugs (which is contradictory, since they are bugs being found and fixed by a HUGE userbase that has access to the code, while you have to rely on MS's relatively tiny test team to do the same thing on their products...). The general effect is that people who don't know any better (ie. corporate types) instruct their IT people to remove all open source OSes from their infrastructure and don't use any in future development projects. -- Steve Tremblett To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect)
From: Matthew Hagerty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Anyone see todays Wall Street Journal article: Microsoft Using Free Software (or something to that effect) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:43:24 -0400 As I understand the BSD license anyone can use it, however, they must say that they are using it, no? No. That clause was rescinded by UC Berkeley. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
