Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 2012-Jun-13 21:55:22 +0200, Hans Petter Selasky hsela...@c2i.net wrote: Try setting: sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=1 Note that this is a tunable and will need to be specified in /boot/loader.conf to have any effect. -- Peter Jeremy pgpojiOBCDYfk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
Thanks for the information -- I got scared by SysV init. This actually does look very nice. -Nathan On 06/13/12 13:35, Richard Yao wrote: The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the Gentoo wiki: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would appreciate feedback regarding them. On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falkbfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 6/13/12 6:29 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Russell Cattelan catte...@thebarn.com mailto:catte...@thebarn.com wrote: On 6/13/12 2:16 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1206130909310.73...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl mailto:alpine.bsf.2.00.1206130909310.73...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl, Wojci ech Puchar writes: One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers serially synchronously. Yes definitely. I have been looking into how to potentially defer or parallelize device_attach'es. Defer is turning out to be hard enough since each system is has different requirements to reach a state where it can run /sbin/init. I've started with the John Baldwin's multipass work and have a system stops probing/attaching devices and allows the boot to continue on. The remaining passes I'm triggering from userspace once the system is up. This is all very crude at this point and has been an some work just to understand how the kernel startup code all links together. Note systemd looks interesting from from a demand based startup scheme much like apples launchd. (note systemd uses linux process groups so porting it would take some effort) Ideally it would be nice to get to the point where many devices are only attached once there is a demand for it. Say network interfaces for example: attach it once the init scripts need to config it and then hopefully in an async fashion. Unfortunately that will require locking a bit more fine grain than the current Giant lock. -Russell To reduce the boot time , my opinion is as follows : During install or by using a program , generate a Hardware Profile File . By editing it , mark some devices No check ( for example , a network card or PS/2 mouse or key board , is not connected , RS-232 , Firewire , unused SATA ports , unused IDE ports , etc. , then it is not necessary to check them . ) During boot , first read that Hardware Profile File . Only check ports marked as Check . Linux does this by keeping a list of driver id's and corresponding driver modules. The installers can then generate of list of modules to load based on a scan done at install time. FreeBSD is much more into build everything into the kernel vs having a smaller kernel + modules. There really isn't anything limiting a smaller kernel right now. I have a config with just about everything stripped out to do multipass ordering testing and not have a ton of extra probes going on. After completion of boot , the other ports may checked to update Hardware Profile File if it is requested in Hardware Profile File . Later on , assume a new device is attached . Run the Hardware Profile program to regenerate the Hardware Profile File , or by using dmesg , manually add this device into Hardware Profile File . For removable devices , if some USB , etc. ports are not used , they all may be marked as No Check , for example internal USB ports , unused back panel ports . Making usb async would be a big help in terms of boot time it is one of the slowest subsystems to attach. cam already has a thread for drive scanning but unfortunately the boot still waits for it to scan everything before proceeding. One thing I would like to do is release the boot process once the root drive is found and let the rest of drive discovery happen in the background. The problem that then arises is what is the next barrier point? say when mount -a happening? Right now the rc scripts assume everything is probed and attached. What if the rc scripts could say load all drives, notify me when done, get notification, run mount -a. I was thinking anything new would have to take existing scripts and run them normally. But provide a new framework to allow for things to be migrated over. I do not know such a scheme is useful or not , or usable or not . If I were a boot manager program writer , I would try it . To my knowledge which I may be wrong , at present there is no such a facility . yes something could / should be done. So lets keep the discussion going. -Russell Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
Brandon writes: Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell 0.5-2 seconds from power-on to a shell prompt? How do you get through the firmware that fast, much less firmware plus an OS? Which reminds me, back when I was triple-booting Free, Net, and penguinix, I noticed that when rebooting, penguinix didn't go through all the firmware stuff like the BSDs do. That is one way to save a lot of time, at least for reboots. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
Linux does this by keeping a list of driver id's and corresponding driver modules. The installers can then generate of list of modules to load based on a scan done at install time. what a problem to compile custom kernel? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
That is a fairly common response. I would appreciate suggestions on how I can convey that OpenRC is a good init system. Also, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would be thrilled if FreeBSD adopted OpenRC. If FreeBSD core is interested in OpenRC, feel free to contact the OpenRC and/or the Gentoo FreeBSD developers. We would all love to see OpenRC in upstream FreeBSD. On 06/14/12 10:34, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: Thanks for the information -- I got scared by SysV init. This actually does look very nice. -Nathan On 06/13/12 13:35, Richard Yao wrote: The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the Gentoo wiki: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would appreciate feedback regarding them. On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falkbfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, mostly kernel time. Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 09:10:04AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: mostly kernel time. Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted ... I'd rather not get into a long discussion about this, but the above reflects a perception that I do not share, for the simple reason that I track FreeBSD stable/8, stable/9, and head daily on my laptop. And since each of these is an in-place source upgrade, I reboot to get into each of those environments. And since I actually track stable/9 twice (one slice has stable/9 built with gcc; the other with clang) -- well, my mornings tend to be busy. (Just installing the stable/8 freshly-built kernel as I type.) In addition, I normally power the laptop off when I put it in my backpack cycle to or from the train station. (Well, if I'm running stable/9 or head at the time, I can suspend it resume once I've arrived.) Granted, neither of the above may be especially common, but diversity [in this case, of experience] is a wonderful thing. Let us not assume that others' experiences and perceptions are limited to our own -- please? :-) Peace, david -- David H. Wolfskill da...@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. pgpMSL26mqKiE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1206130909310.73...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl, Wojci ech Puchar writes: One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers serially synchronously. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, mostly kernel time. Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you use FreeBSD is the only way. -- Ian ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falkbfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 6/13/2012 10:19 AM, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falkbfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Sorry guys, I was very busy last night. The issue is not the init system, rather the kernel. Maybe for a server does the init system start to get lengthy, but at least on my desktop environment where I have almost nothing for RC to do, the kernel bootup takes about 95% of the boot process. If I were to really delve into this (as it would require extensive changes in the kernel [I think]), I would probably end up branching FreeBSD either to a new OS, or if I got permission, to just another branch of FreeBSD. -Brandon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wednesday 13 June 2012 15:21:29 Ian Lepore wrote: On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, mostly kernel time. Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you use FreeBSD is the only way. -- Ian Try setting: sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=1 Might help a bit :-) --HPS ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 13 June 2012 12:55, Hans Petter Selasky hsela...@c2i.net wrote: On Wednesday 13 June 2012 15:21:29 Ian Lepore wrote: On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, mostly kernel time. Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you use FreeBSD is the only way. -- Ian Try setting: sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=1 Can you explain in a bit more detail what this does and why it isn't default? -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote: On 13 June 2012 12:55, Hans Petter Selasky hsela...@c2i.net wrote: On Wednesday 13 June 2012 15:21:29 Ian Lepore wrote: On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 09:10 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, mostly kernel time. Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. true. system that never crash are not often booted An embedded system may be booted or powered cycled dozens of times a day, and boot time can be VERY important. Don't assume that the way you use FreeBSD is the only way. -- Ian Try setting: sysctl hw.usb.no_boot_wait=1 Can you explain in a bit more detail what this does and why it isn't default? -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org If you simplky do sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait you will see the explanation ;) -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the Gentoo wiki: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would appreciate feedback regarding them. On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falkbfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 13 June 2012 14:16, claudiu vasadi claudiu.vas...@gmail.com wrote:
If you simplky do sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait you will see the
explanation ;)
No, you see a one liner that only explains things if you already
understand what is going on:
hw.usb.no_boot_wait: No USB device enumerate waiting at boot.
Does setting this sysctl mean that my { printer, phone, keyboard }
won't function?***
--
Eitan Adler
*** I'm being rhetorical here, but we don't have good sysctl documentation.
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Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:35 PM, Richard Yao r...@gentoo.org wrote: The OpenRC is sysvinit compatible, but it has few of sysvinit's flaws. It has named runlevels, the presence of an init script does not cause it to start and it is in my opinion a joy to use. I suggest that you try OpenRC before drawing conclusions. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD in a jail. There are instructions for this on the Gentoo wiki: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_FreeBSD#Howto_run_G.2FFBSD_in_vanilla_FreeBSD.27s_jail If you find deficiencies, I am certain that the OpenRC developers would appreciate feedback regarding them. On 06/13/12 10:19, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 06/12/12 18:00, Richard Yao wrote: On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falkbfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Please don't change any of the user-facing aspects of the RC system. One of the things that brought me (and many others I know) to FreeBSD, besides working sound, was having an rc.conf that was easy to configure instead of the nightmare that is System V init. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org @Eitan: I think is simply does what it says (does not wait for the usb devices to be ready, instead just activates the usb hub and then the device will signal when it;s ready). My low level programming sucks and this is just a hunch. PS: I tried it on my laptop and as far as I've seen, it behaves like that. corrections are welcomed. -- Best regards, Claudiu Vasadi ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 13-6-2012 23:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: If you simplky do sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait you will see the explanation ;) Probably why Eitan asked as that description: a) means nothing to people unfamiliar with device enumerations b) does not point to a manual page that explains how USB does device enumerations and why it would account for a significant chunk of the boot process. -- Mel ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Warren Block wrote: On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Richard Yao wrote: Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. There have been at least two attempts to parallelize the rc scripts. The more recent one was posted on the forums. AFAIR, one advantage it had was no or few changes to the rc scripts, and something like 40% improvement in startup time. I'll post a link if I can find it. Startup time is a big deal for notebooks. Thanks to pointers from forum members and moderators, links to various attempts to improve startup time: An older attempt in -current: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/rc-improvements-wanted-td3911390.html The forums post: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=25822 And a newer effort from the PC-BSD folks which sounds very promising: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.os.pcbsd.testing/6225 ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 6/13/12 2:16 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1206130909310.73...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl, Wojci ech Puchar writes: One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers serially synchronously. Yes definitely. I have been looking into how to potentially defer or parallelize device_attach'es. Defer is turning out to be hard enough since each system is has different requirements to reach a state where it can run /sbin/init. I've started with the John Baldwin's multipass work and have a system stops probing/attaching devices and allows the boot to continue on. The remaining passes I'm triggering from userspace once the system is up. This is all very crude at this point and has been an some work just to understand how the kernel startup code all links together. Note systemd looks interesting from from a demand based startup scheme much like apples launchd. (note systemd uses linux process groups so porting it would take some effort) Ideally it would be nice to get to the point where many devices are only attached once there is a demand for it. Say network interfaces for example: attach it once the init scripts need to config it and then hopefully in an async fashion. Unfortunately that will require locking a bit more fine grain than the current Giant lock. -Russell signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 12-6-2012 0:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk bfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. I realize people are working on this and that it's generally a good thing, however - please don't underestimate the importance of getting an accurate list of what boots when and equally important how it shuts down. rcorder is vary valuable in diagnosing why certain services fail to start or throw fits, but you have to be able to match it with output from the rc script (something that not all scripts do I might add). -- Mel ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Russell Cattelan catte...@thebarn.comwrote: On 6/13/12 2:16 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1206130909310.73...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl, Wojci ech Puchar writes: One of the major slowdowns is that we do all the device drivers serially synchronously. Yes definitely. I have been looking into how to potentially defer or parallelize device_attach'es. Defer is turning out to be hard enough since each system is has different requirements to reach a state where it can run /sbin/init. I've started with the John Baldwin's multipass work and have a system stops probing/attaching devices and allows the boot to continue on. The remaining passes I'm triggering from userspace once the system is up. This is all very crude at this point and has been an some work just to understand how the kernel startup code all links together. Note systemd looks interesting from from a demand based startup scheme much like apples launchd. (note systemd uses linux process groups so porting it would take some effort) Ideally it would be nice to get to the point where many devices are only attached once there is a demand for it. Say network interfaces for example: attach it once the init scripts need to config it and then hopefully in an async fashion. Unfortunately that will require locking a bit more fine grain than the current Giant lock. -Russell To reduce the boot time , my opinion is as follows : During install or by using a program , generate a Hardware Profile File . By editing it , mark some devices No check ( for example , a network card or PS/2 mouse or key board , is not connected , RS-232 , Firewire , unused SATA ports , unused IDE ports , etc. , then it is not necessary to check them . ) During boot , first read that Hardware Profile File . Only check ports marked as Check . After completion of boot , the other ports may checked to update Hardware Profile File if it is requested in Hardware Profile File . Later on , assume a new device is attached . Run the Hardware Profile program to regenerate the Hardware Profile File , or by using dmesg , manually add this device into Hardware Profile File . For removable devices , if some USB , etc. ports are not used , they all may be marked as No Check , for example internal USB ports , unused back panel ports . I do not know such a scheme is useful or not , or usable or not . If I were a boot manager program writer , I would try it . To my knowledge which I may be wrong , at present there is no such a facility . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 2012-06-13 14:18, Eitan Adler wrote: On 13 June 2012 14:16, claudiu vasadiclaudiu.vas...@gmail.com wrote: If you simplky do sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait you will see the explanation ;) No, you see a one liner that only explains things if you already understand what is going on: I believe it pertains to mounting root from a USB device. When set to 0, usb_attach tells VFS to wait on the USB device being attached. This results in not mounting root until the USB busses are all fully explored. If you don't rely on any USB devices for multi-user start-up, set this to 1 and let the kernel launch multi-user without waiting for USB probing. This is nice for those systems where the BIOS takes a long time to release control of any hubs with keyboards attached. IMO I'd rather have my gear do the boot process in a well-ordered fashion and get everything right, than try to shave off a handful of seconds at the risk of unreliable booting. For servers, the baseboard, OOB management, and SCSI BIOSes can mean minutes between power-on and OS bootstrap, so an extra 20 seconds is nothing. :) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Wednesday 13 June 2012 23:35:17 Mel Flynn wrote: On 13-6-2012 23:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: If you simplky do sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait you will see the explanation ;) Probably why Eitan asked as that description: a) means nothing to people unfamiliar with device enumerations b) does not point to a manual page that explains how USB does device enumerations and why it would account for a significant chunk of the boot process. It's not dangerous. It only means that you can't boot off a USB disk for example, because the USB stack will then not wait for the BOOT device at mount-root time, if you set this options. --HPS ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 13 June 2012 22:13, Hans Petter Selasky hsela...@c2i.net wrote: It's not dangerous. It only means that you can't boot off a USB disk for example, because the USB stack will then not wait for the BOOT device at mount-root time, if you set this options. This is what I expected, but it should be documented somewhere. Thanks! -- Eitan Adler ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 07:13:23AM +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: On Wednesday 13 June 2012 23:35:17 Mel Flynn wrote: On 13-6-2012 23:16, claudiu vasadi wrote: If you simplky do sysctl -d hw.usb.no_boot_wait you will see the explanation ;) Probably why Eitan asked as that description: a) means nothing to people unfamiliar with device enumerations b) does not point to a manual page that explains how USB does device enumerations and why it would account for a significant chunk of the boot process. It's not dangerous. It only means that you can't boot off a USB disk for example, because the USB stack will then not wait for the BOOT device at mount-root time, if you set this options. Can we disable that by default and add a boot menu entry like Boot from USB Disk to enable it? pgpPxWPragKoo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
on 12/06/2012 01:21 Brandon Falk said the following: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Do you have a breakdown of the boot time between pre-loader, loader, kernel and rc stages? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. Ditto. :-) -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Tuesday 12 June 2012 08:23:33 Andriy Gapon wrote: on 12/06/2012 01:21 Brandon Falk said the following: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Do you have a breakdown of the boot time between pre-loader, loader, kernel and rc stages? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. Ditto. :-) BTW: Booting over USB is slow because many small chuncks of data is read instead of a few big chunks when loading the kernel and modules at the loader time. --HPS ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
Ill do some profiling tonight and get back to you then. On Jun 12, 2012 3:27 AM, Hans Petter Selasky hsela...@c2i.net wrote: On Tuesday 12 June 2012 08:23:33 Andriy Gapon wrote: on 12/06/2012 01:21 Brandon Falk said the following: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Do you have a breakdown of the boot time between pre-loader, loader, kernel and rc stages? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. Ditto. :-) BTW: Booting over USB is slow because many small chuncks of data is read instead of a few big chunks when loading the kernel and modules at the loader time. --HPS ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On 06/11/12 18:51, Garrett Cooper wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk bfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Richard Yao wrote: Gentoo FreeBSD shares OpenRC with Gentoo Linux. OpenRC is a BSD 2-clause licensed System V init system replacement that supports parallel boot. Its boot performance is competitive with systemd and Ubuntu's upstart. If FreeBSD's init system is serializing the boot process, it might be worthwhile to consider importing OpenRC. There have been at least two attempts to parallelize the rc scripts. The more recent one was posted on the forums. AFAIR, one advantage it had was no or few changes to the rc scripts, and something like 40% improvement in startup time. I'll post a link if I can find it. Startup time is a big deal for notebooks. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Brandon Falk bfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. The single process nature of rc is a big part of the problem, as is the single AP bootup of FreeBSD right before multiuser mode. There are a number of threads that discuss this (look for parallel rc bootup or something like that in the current, hacker, and rc archives -- the most recent discussion was probably 6~9 months ago). Given past experience, a big part of getting past the parallelized rc mess would be to make services fail/wait gracefully for all their resources to come up before proceeding. It's not easy, but it's possible with enough resources. HTH, -Garrett ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
They have a lot of manpower and can spend a lot of time replacing the boot subsystems and all startup scripts every 2 releases. For FreeBSD it's not a big issue as most people don't reboot often. If it's an itch you want to scratch you're more than welcome to look into it; that seems to be the way a lot of little things get worked on around here. Unfortunately the new systemd rc system (which is pretty awful) has issues of its own including the inability to handle /usr on a separate filesystem under certain situations.[1] I honestly prefer the freebsd startup system and rc.conf. Speed isn't an issue for me right now. It's even less obvious if you just use an SSD for /. [1] http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD Boot Times
On Jun 11, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Brandon Falk bfalk_...@brandonfa.lk wrote: Greetings, I was just wondering what it is that FreeBSD does that makes it take so long to boot. Booting into Ubuntu minimal or my own custom Linux distro, literally takes 0.5-2 seconds to boot up to shell, where FreeBSD takes about 10-20 seconds. I'm not sure if anything could be parallelized in the boot process, but Linux somehow manages to do it. The Ubuntu install I do pretty much consists of a shell and developers tools, but it still has a generic kernel. There must be some sort of polling done in the FreeBSD boot process that could be parallelized or eliminated. Anyone have any suggestions? Note: This isn't really an issue, moreso a curiosity. -Brandon _ In amd64 builds the system checks it's ram twice . Early in the boot phase using a slower method , and latter using a faster SMAP method. In 9.0-RELEASE you can disable the early men check via a loader tunable , here is a snip it from the release notes on 9.0 . It should also be mfc'd to 7, and 8 stable. [amd64, i386, pc98] A loader(8) tunable hw.memtest.tests has been added. This controls whether to perform memory testing at boot time or not. The default value is 1 (perform a memory test).[r224516] The next it is switch to a modular kernel this speeds up boot times be omitting kernel items you do not need, you can also do this via with a static kernel by removing / disabling unused options . Look at the Archives for ha hackers there is a ton of info on this. Most of the rest of the boot up time is via init / rc'ng starting an configuring things . Right now this is not parallel-ized out the box . Pc-bsd has something called fastboot ? I am am not sure how it works but it improves load time in their setups . See http://lists.pcbsd.org/pipermail/testing/2012-January/006358.html Other then that, there are some other things being developed check the FreeBSD wiki for a rc.ng management daemon frs or fsr ? --- Mark saad | mark.s...@longcount.org ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
