Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Miroslav Lachman]

Mathieu Arnold wrote on 08/15/2016 15:56:

+--On 10 août 2016 23:07:27 +0200 Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz>
wrote:
| So... LoadModule can be extracted from httpd.conf (and nothing else).
| I am not sure if it should be one file for all modules or separate files
| for each module.

Keeping them all in one file is about the same as not splitting them out of
httpd.conf, the problem is what I wrote in
, quoting here for easier reading:

  For example, say, the user uses the official packages:

 pkg install apache24
 edit httpd.conf to enable a few extensions, like, say, ssl and
socache_shmcb
 some updates are done to apache, some more extensions are now built
with it
 pkg upgrade
 the new extensions are in not in httpd.conf, but they are in
httpd.conf.sample, so, the user will have to go look around in the sample
file (and know it exists) to get the new LoadModule lines into his
httpd.conf. This is not good.

Other example:

 pkg install mod_php56
 I uncomment the LoadModule line in httpd.conf that mod_php56 magically
added
 some time later, after php has been updated
 pkg upgrade
 the LoadModule php line is gone, or has been commented out, I'm not
happy :-)

With one LoadModule (it being commented or not) per file, using @sample,
what the user comments or uncomments never gets changed.



I am fine with this proposal for LoadModule. Even if it means more work 
on the first installation and go through all the files containing just 
one line.

I think I will write some script with dialog to simplify this task.

But I hope this is the only case where we split something out of httpd.conf.

Miroslav Lachman

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Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Mathieu Arnold]

+--On 10 août 2016 23:07:27 +0200 Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz>
wrote:
| So... LoadModule can be extracted from httpd.conf (and nothing else).
| I am not sure if it should be one file for all modules or separate files
| for each module.

Keeping them all in one file is about the same as not splitting them out of
httpd.conf, the problem is what I wrote in
, quoting here for easier reading:

 For example, say, the user uses the official packages:

pkg install apache24
edit httpd.conf to enable a few extensions, like, say, ssl and
socache_shmcb
some updates are done to apache, some more extensions are now built
with it
pkg upgrade
the new extensions are in not in httpd.conf, but they are in
httpd.conf.sample, so, the user will have to go look around in the sample
file (and know it exists) to get the new LoadModule lines into his
httpd.conf. This is not good.

Other example:

pkg install mod_php56
I uncomment the LoadModule line in httpd.conf that mod_php56 magically
added
some time later, after php has been updated
pkg upgrade
the LoadModule php line is gone, or has been commented out, I'm not
happy :-)

With one LoadModule (it being commented or not) per file, using @sample,
what the user comments or uncomments never gets changed.

-- 
Mathieu Arnold

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Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Patrick Powell]

On 08/12/16 09:15, olli hauer wrote:

On 2016-08-12 16:32, Patrick Powell wrote:

On 08/10/16 14:07, Miroslav Lachman wrote:

Mathieu Arnold wrote on 08/10/2016 17:42:

Hi,

It is coming.

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460

constructive comments welcome.


...

I plead with the people making this change to update apachectl to list the 
modules that are loaded:


# apachectl modules

  
  mod_perl 

It is already there, use the same parameter as for httpd direct `apachectl -M'



And when you update mod_perl and the U&*(()* httpd.conf file gets mangled and 
the mod_perl line is removed or
commented out,   you now stand a fighting chance of finding this. With the 
change to itty-bitty files this would
be even more useful.

Just out of curiosity,  how are you going to now deal with temporarily 
commenting out LoadModule entries?


Since more then one year mod_perl2 installs a .sample file and no longer 
changes httpd.conf
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/www/mod_perl2/pkg-plist?r1=35=389628

But I have to admit this is not the case for all modules in the ports tree


Thanks for the pointer to the -M option.
--

Patrick Powell Astart Technologies
papow...@astart.com1530 Jamacha Rd, Suite X
Network and System San Diego, CA 92019
  Consulting   858-874-6543 FAX 858-751-2435
Web: www.astart.com

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Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[olli hauer]

On 2016-08-12 16:32, Patrick Powell wrote:
> On 08/10/16 14:07, Miroslav Lachman wrote:
>> Mathieu Arnold wrote on 08/10/2016 17:42:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> It is coming.
>>>
>>> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460
>>>
>>> constructive comments welcome.
>>>
...
> 
> I plead with the people making this change to update apachectl to list the 
> modules that are loaded:
> 
>># apachectl modules
>  
>  mod_perl 

It is already there, use the same parameter as for httpd direct `apachectl -M'


> And when you update mod_perl and the U&*(()* httpd.conf file gets mangled 
> and the mod_perl line is removed or
> commented out,   you now stand a fighting chance of finding this. With the 
> change to itty-bitty files this would
> be even more useful.
> 
> Just out of curiosity,  how are you going to now deal with temporarily 
> commenting out LoadModule entries?
> 

Since more then one year mod_perl2 installs a .sample file and no longer 
changes httpd.conf
https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/www/mod_perl2/pkg-plist?r1=35=389628

But I have to admit this is not the case for all modules in the ports tree

-- 
olli
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Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Patrick Powell]

On 08/10/16 14:07, Miroslav Lachman wrote:

Mathieu Arnold wrote on 08/10/2016 17:42:

Hi,

It is coming.

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460

constructive comments welcome.

I don't think I will do that for Apache 2.2 because it expires at the 
end

of the year.


I agree that there are problems with LoadModule lines in httpd.conf. 
Because some modules add / remove or comment / uncomment lines in this 
file making pkg upgrade painful. So I moved some 3rd party modules 
configuration in to different included file to solve this issue.
But I am not sure I we really need to split httpd.conf in to 20, 30, 
or more little files as proposed in comments in 
https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460
I disagree with "httpd.conf never gets changed by the user" - we are 
always editing httpd.conf on all our servers. For example Listen to 
listen only on specified IP, ServerAdmin, CustomLog format and couple 
of Included *.conf files at the end of the httpd.conf


I cannot agree with splitting httpd.conf in to many small files. 
Change like this was made for dovecot.conf (24 files in conf.d) and it 
is lot of pain to find something in this mess or edit more than one 
thing in one file.


I understand that machine (scripted) editing of one big file is worse 
than deleting / replacing small files but for us humans one (or a few) 
files are easily editable than tens of small files.


So... LoadModule can be extracted from httpd.conf (and nothing else).
I am not sure if it should be one file for all modules or separate 
files for each module.


Miroslav Lachman
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I plead with the people making this change to update apachectl to list 
the modules that are loaded:


># apachectl modules
 
 mod_perl 

And when you update mod_perl and the U&*(()* httpd.conf file gets 
mangled and the mod_perl line is removed or
commented out,   you now stand a fighting chance of finding this. With 
the change to itty-bitty files this would

be even more useful.

Just out of curiosity,  how are you going to now deal with temporarily 
commenting out LoadModule entries?



--
Patrick Powell Astart Technologies
papow...@astart.com1530 Jamacha Rd, Suite X
Network and System San Diego, CA 92019
  Consulting   858-874-6543 FAX 858-751-2435
Web: www.astart.com

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Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Miroslav Lachman]

Mathieu Arnold wrote on 08/10/2016 17:42:

Hi,

It is coming.

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460

constructive comments welcome.

I don't think I will do that for Apache 2.2 because it expires at the end
of the year.


I agree that there are problems with LoadModule lines in httpd.conf. 
Because some modules add / remove or comment / uncomment lines in this 
file making pkg upgrade painful. So I moved some 3rd party modules 
configuration in to different included file to solve this issue.
But I am not sure I we really need to split httpd.conf in to 20, 30, or 
more little files as proposed in comments in 
https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460
I disagree with "httpd.conf never gets changed by the user" - we are 
always editing httpd.conf on all our servers. For example Listen to 
listen only on specified IP, ServerAdmin, CustomLog format and couple of 
Included *.conf files at the end of the httpd.conf


I cannot agree with splitting httpd.conf in to many small files. Change 
like this was made for dovecot.conf (24 files in conf.d) and it is lot 
of pain to find something in this mess or edit more than one thing in 
one file.


I understand that machine (scripted) editing of one big file is worse 
than deleting / replacing small files but for us humans one (or a few) 
files are easily editable than tens of small files.


So... LoadModule can be extracted from httpd.conf (and nothing else).
I am not sure if it should be one file for all modules or separate files 
for each module.


Miroslav Lachman
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Re: [HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Roger Marquis]

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460
constructive comments welcome.


Would be nice if dialog were able to disable/enable modules after
choosing them for installation.  An installed but disabled module would
still, in this design, write a file to modules.d but the LoadModule line
would be commented.  This is somewhat similar to the way rc scripts are
handled for some of the same reasons.  A sysrc-enabled syntax would be
icing on the cake.

Roger
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[HEADSUP] extracting LoadModule out of httpd.conf

[Mathieu Arnold]

Hi,

It is coming.

https://reviews.freebsd.org/D7460

constructive comments welcome.

I don't think I will do that for Apache 2.2 because it expires at the end
of the year.

-- 
Mathieu Arnold

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