Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Yes, Clang in general produces slower binaries than gcc. Is that in dispute or something? Or is this just repetition in case we didn't hear you the first time? just yesterday i've heard lots of otherwise claim. Try thinking of the transition as a step back to take many steps forward. What exactly step forward it means? For now i see ONLY politics and aggression after pointing out facts. This doesn't look like serious behaviour of serious people. I think that this is a more complicated decision than just choosing the 'fastest' compiler. There are many other variables involved, and of course the decision has a political dimension. Most things do. Diversity and competition are nice attributes to have in a system. Having alternatives allows users choose a compiler based on what criteria they think are important. Users also benefit from the experience, but more importantly, for such non-trivial projects as LLVM, different designs are interesting in themselves. I personally, am looking forward to seeing what the lldb debugger can do. Historically, some of the most important software projects have been themselves disasters, but they've lead people to change the way they think about a problem and lead to later better solutions-- for example MULTICS ;) This is part of the development process. And this can't just happen in a laboratory. LLVM needs projects like FreeBSD to test it and simply be involved. I notice that bitrig, which recently forked from OpenBSD, and which want to be a more progressive operating system will also be swapping to LLVM and Clang. We don't know what possible benefits there will be from the LLVM project. But there will be some. I was a bit frustrated about being stuck with gcc4.2 for a while, and was trying to compile as many ports as possible using gcc4.6 (FreeBSD 8.2). There seemed to be some improvement in performance, but now I don't bother, world is compiled with Clang and the ports are compiled with gcc4.2 and everything works (most of the time.) I'm satisfied with performance. I don't really understand your concerns. I mean unless you're a fairly radical environmentalist and are really concerned about saving every clock-cycle, running a bit slower really isn't that much of a problem most of the time. Or just change your compiler. Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- joe gain jacob-burckhardt-str. 16 78464 konstanz germany +49 (0)7531 60389 (...otherwise in ???) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Yes, Clang in general produces slower binaries than gcc. Is that in dispute or something? Or is this just repetition in case we didn't hear you the first time? just yesterday i've heard lots of otherwise claim. Try thinking of the transition as a step back to take many steps forward. What exactly step forward it means? These are a few: http://clang.llvm.org/comparison.html#gcc And the performance overall in clang is gaining more rapidly than gcc. At it's present rate, it won't be long until your are complaining for clang to be the default if that is your primary objection. Other factors have pushed this change into motion sooner than perhaps desirable for some. However, it is inevitable given the licensing barriers and the project's long term goals. Eliminating, or at least not being dependent on a GNU toolchain. GPL v3 brings with it a whole host problems such as: http://www.tech-faq.com/linux-licensing-in-conflict-with-secure-boot-support.html Those licensing issues may not be an issue for you, but they are for many of the targets FreeBSD wishes to serve so keeping the base system as unpolluted as possible is important. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Problem with freebsd-update
I tried to update an amd64 FreeBSD 9.0 p0 system via freebsd-update tonight. It fetched everything fine. However, the install just hung after about 10 minutes. The 2 sh processes are basically doing nothing. Not consuming any processor time and not doing any I/O. I killed it and tried another install. Same thing. Tried a rollback. Same thing. The system still runs mostly. Top takes about 5 minutes before it produces any output. It shows basically nothing running. I really don't want to reinstall again as the system has a lot of files customized including many ports. Is there any way to recover this? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Does GPLv3 does force programs you compile with gcc to be GPLed? As far as I know, the main difference is that the GPLv3 is often called a viral license. Software linking against v3 libraries and so maybe programs compiled by a v3 compiler will have - according to the license - to be released as v3 too. This word: MAYBE is most crucial here. I don't see how GPLv3 is viral. Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should be released under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the program is implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an exception[2] for this. I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. I just don't think the viral license argumentation is strong enough. Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if we compile the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? Thanks. [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#IfLibraryIsGPL [2] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#LibGCCException wouldn't it be just simplest solution to ask GNU leader for clearing it out? i wouldn't be surprised that FreeBSD team would decide to go back to gcc soon. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should be released under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the program is implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an exception[2] for this. this is exactly how i understand that. Anyway DragonFly BSD developers (which is BSD licenced) don't have any problems and just use latest gcc. I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. I am saying this. Moving to worse compiler is a definitely bad idea. This is not a place of politics. As GPLv3 doesn't prevent it from being used in FreeBSD and is better - it should be used. It's simple. If clang would be better - it should be used. Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if we compile the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? there are none probably. Before actually testing it i believed we move to clang because it is better compiler AND and supported a move. Good lesson to test first and don't believe, even with FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
long term goals. Eliminating, or at least not being dependent on a GNU toolchain. GPL v3 brings with it a whole host problems such as: As you already know i don't like GPL very much. As i already said for me GNU is computer communism. But like or not like, i don't prefer my likeness above facts and FreeBSD performance. And the facts are against clang. BUT PLEASE stop offtopic explaining about secure boot problems and answer one clear question: What exactly GPLv3 have wrong that we can use gcc in longer term for FreeBSD system? OK? Can you just answer that simple question clearly? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: freebsd-update install question
Dale Scott skrev 2012-06-14 14:59: Should I install the libc souces? I had this error when upgrading 8.x (8.1 to 8.2?), and solved it by creating the directory only (actual sources not required). I recall someone had posted this solution to the list at the time. Regards, Dale ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org I followed your suggestion and created the directory. I then installed the latest update with freebsd-update and it went well without any warnings. Thanks for the advice :-) /Leslie ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: OK? Can you just answer that simple question clearly? Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets very complex. The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
i have samba server and few virtualbox sessions using vboxnet which is started by /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless i want samba to be started AFTER vboxheadless as the latter configures vboxnet0 automatically when started, and samba do bind to vboxnet0. so i appended vboxheadless to REQUIRE: line in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba because vboxheadless is a word after PROVIDE: in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless script yet - samba still is started before vboxheadless. what i am missing? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets very complex. The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. So please give an answer - not summary. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Wojciech Puchar wrote: Here[1] we can read a program linking agains a gpl v3 library should be released under the gplv3 too. However, the only concern would be when the program is implicitly linked against libgcc right? Well, there's even an exception[2] for this. this is exactly how i understand that. Anyway DragonFly BSD developers (which is BSD licenced) don't have any problems and just use latest gcc. I'm not saying moving to clang is a bad idea. I am saying this. Moving to worse compiler is a definitely bad idea. This is not a place of politics. As GPLv3 doesn't prevent it from being used in FreeBSD and is better - it should be used. It's simple. If clang would be better - it should be used. Can anyone provide an example of viral propagation of the license if we compile the base system with a gpl v3 gcc? there are none probably. Before actually testing it i believed we move to clang because it is better compiler AND and supported a move. Good lesson to test first and don't believe, even with FreeBSD. The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making their own OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper for example. It would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. As for DragonflyBSD they AFAIK are taking the path of fixing world to build on any stock compiler as we currently do. And they have no such user base to support. FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world and fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a choice on which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
The answer is: 1. gcc will still be available through the ports system. 2. The move to clang/llvm as a default compiler will reduce the amount of GPL code in the base system, eventually reducing distribution issues (especially for 3rd parties). 3. clang/llvm provides better error and warning messages, as well as good static code analysis, which helps reduce some classes of bugs and eventually will result in a more reliable FreeBSD system. 4. clang/llvm is improving quickly. 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for gcc to become as modular, it will take time. 6. gcc produces faster code, but clang/llvm will eventually (soon enough) get there. 7. From the reasons above, it makes sense to complete a task sooner rather than later, especially that clang/llvm isn't showing any signs of weakness (lack of development power, etc). 8. There might be more reasons for or against, but I couldn't think of any. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets very complex. The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. So please give an answer - not summary. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
On 20/06/2012 09:24, Wojciech Puchar wrote: i have samba server and few virtualbox sessions using vboxnet which is started by /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless i want samba to be started AFTER vboxheadless as the latter configures vboxnet0 automatically when started, and samba do bind to vboxnet0. so i appended vboxheadless to REQUIRE: line in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba because vboxheadless is a word after PROVIDE: in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/vboxheadless script yet - samba still is started before vboxheadless. what i am missing? Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making their own OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper for example. It would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. not really understood this. if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree into what tree? gcc tree or FreeBSD tree? FreeBSD has it's own copy of gcc so any change in gcc doesn't automatically change FreeBSD code and licencing. Can you explain it more precisely privately? thanks FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world and fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a choice on which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. the right way is to use best performing tools as long as no law problems exist. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
1. gcc will still be available through the ports system. As well as clang is available in ports. not an argument. 2. The move to clang/llvm as a default compiler will reduce the amount of GPL code in the base system, eventually reducing distribution issues (especially for 3rd parties). true. But JUST reducing GPL code should be a target per se. FreeBSD is about performance and quality not politics or religion. We don't want GPL code because it prevents doing binary only distributions and closed source derivatives, which means reducing FREEDOM. But - if you do closed source derivatives you don't need to include C compiler to run it. And you may allow C compiler separately with source included. No problem. 3. clang/llvm provides better error and warning messages, as well as good static code analysis, which helps reduce some classes of bugs and eventually will result in a more reliable FreeBSD system. as with 1 - you may use clang when developing. 4. clang/llvm is improving quickly. When/If it WILL actually improve to be better than gcc it should be imported to FreeBSD. not sooner. 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for gcc to become as modular, it will take time. Doesn't matter how it is written, but how it performs. 6. gcc produces faster code, but clang/llvm will eventually (soon enough) get there. This is your prediction. Not definite fact, mine and other predictions are different. 7. From the reasons above, it makes sense to complete a task sooner rather than later, especially that clang/llvm isn't showing any signs of weakness (lack of development power, etc). NOBODY prevent you and FreeBSD developers to fix things already - so FreeBSD and ports would compile with both compilers. Actually it is good to fix it already, as making programs compile with both means usually fixing non-portability bug which would help using third compiler that may possibly emerge. But this DO NOT require clang to be a part of main system. As well as making it default. 8. There might be more reasons for or against, but I couldn't think of any. Against: All for arguments assumes clang WILL be better. This is a change as less than 2 days before it was stated to already be better. As a comparision - DragonFly BSD is stated to have better ideas that would result in better performing system in a future. But FOR NOW it is much worse performer than FreeBSD that's why i (and lots of other people) does not switch to DragonFly but of course will when(and if) DragonFly BSD will actually be better. And i don't really think this IF will happen at all, but i wish to DragonFly BSD i am wrong. Same should be used for clang. AS LONG as it is not better it should not be imported into base system or worse - used as default. Making decision based on wishes and personal likes instead of technical facts isn't something that anyone should be proud about. As for your words about doing decision good for FreeBSD, not me - it is pure nonsense attacks because anything that is good for FreeBSD quality is good for me, and the reverse. The decision of switching to clang now it shows that ideologic and religious arguments won over technical arguments. The agressive and data-manipulationg reactions of many people on that list shows that above sentence is true. This IMHO much change. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
On 20/06/2012 09:51, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. Using a separate file stops that being a problem. If you want to test that your changes are having the desired effect without having to reboot: # rcorder /etc/rc.d/* /usr/local/etc/rc.d/* which will print out the order all the rc-scripts would be run. (It includes all the scripts, not just the ones enabled in /etc/rc.conf, but that shouldn't matter.) Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Why Clang
Wojciech Puchar wrote: The bad thing about GPLv3 is that if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree vendors that use our code base for making their own OSes will ditch FreeBSD as they can be sued by FSF. Juniper for example. It would be wise to listen to their point of view on GPLv3. not really understood this. if anyone commits any code under this license into the tree into what tree? gcc tree or FreeBSD tree? I was talking about FreeBSD sources here. FreeBSD has it's own copy of gcc so any change in gcc doesn't automatically change FreeBSD code and licencing. FreeBSD has old and abandoned copy of gcc, the last version available under GPLv2 license. FreeBSD is heading the right way: bringing BSD toolchain to the world and fixing world compilation with gcc46 from ports would give anyone a choice on which compiler to use keeping GPL out of tree. the right way is to use best performing tools as long as no law problems exist. There can be different ways for selecting best tools. Someone needs better performance while other one state that stability is a must. For now clang is a choice for stability and not the performance. Yet due to the rapid development this is subject to change while gcc is not. Think of it like we are changing a car that shines for the one that can move. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar articulated: Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? I had a similar problem about two years ago. One program required program X to load prior to it while program Y wanted to load it after it. It was causing a conflict. It is slightly difficult to explain in a few words. I had to manually check every file in the /usr/local/etc/rc.d directory to straighten it out. I believe that there is a way to have all of that information displayed without going through that much intervention; however, I do not remember how to do it at the moment. Anyway, in the samba file, it has this notation: # PROVIDE: nmbd smbd I don't know if that makes any difference or not. I have never had to move the starting order of samba around. I do know that in other applications, they appear to have their name in the PROVIDE line. For example, from the Postfix script: # PROVIDE: postfix mail -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
packet filter problem on transparent firewall using bridge and pf
I have some trouble with pf on freebsd bridge.
Network topology:
( untrust ) -- { em0 , bridge0 , em1 } -- ( trust )
Bridge Network: 10.1.1.0/24
bridge0 IP: 10.1.1.1 ( freebsd's ip )
default gw: 10.1.1.254 ( in untrust area )
server: 10.1.1.101 ~ 200 ( in trust area )
pf.conf on freebsd
serv1=10.1.1.101
client1=10.1.6.73
block in all
block out all
pass in quick on lo0 all
pass out quick on lo0 all
pass in quick on bridge0 from 10.1.1.0/24 to any
pass out quick on bridge0 from 10.1.1.0/24 to any
pass in quick on bridge0 from $client1 to 10.1.1.1
pass in quick on bridge0 from $client1 to $serv1
When I turn on the pf, I test some connection status.
1. client1 cannot connect to serv1.
2. gw cannot connect to serv1
3. client1 connect to freebsd ( 10.1.1.1 ) successfully
4. gw connect to freebsd ( 10.1.1.1 ) successfully
If I turn off the pf, all conneciton test are success.
What's wrong with the pf rules?
The following is some description of the bridge topology.
Freebsd and server are vmware guest in the vmware ESXi.
The ESXi has two virtual switchs,
vSw1: connect to untrust
vSw2: interconnect with freebsd and servers
freebsd has tow vNICs,
em0: connect to vSw1
em1: connect to vSw2.
servers has only one vNIC,
em0: connect to vSw2
freebsd's rc.conf
cloned_interfaces=bridge0
ifconfig_bridge0=inet 10.1.1.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 addm em0 addm em1 up
ifconfig_em0=up
ifconfig_em1=up
pf_enable=YES
pf_rules=/etc/pf.conf
freebsd's sysctl
net.link.bridge.ipfw: 0
net.link.bridge.inherit_mac: 0
net.link.bridge.log_stp: 0
net.link.bridge.pfil_local_phys: 0
net.link.bridge.pfil_member: 1
net.link.bridge.pfil_bridge: 1
net.link.bridge.ipfw_arp: 0
net.link.bridge.pfil_onlyip: 1
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Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Wojciech Puchar wrote: 5. clang/llvm is more modular than gcc, although there are plans for gcc to become as modular, it will take time. Doesn't matter how it is written, but how it performs. That's a hard one. I remember an error in gcc loop optimizer which makes gcc produce SSE2 opcodes for pre-SSE2 athlon chips. Due to gcc internal design such errors are often seen and almost never patched as you should have eternal knowledge of gcc code. gcc's bugtraq is just a cemetery. Opposing to this ones most fixes to clang touch minimal source lines and minimal set of files. Same should be used for clang. AS LONG as it is not better it should not be imported into base system or worse - used as default. And why you think it's not better then gcc? With gcc I can result in code that will hang locking some parts of system forever, yet with clang the code will break predictably yielding a core and a point on where the debugging should start. That was long ago and I can't correctly remember the PR's are I noted this but that was long ago and helped me to debug ZFS issues a lot. The code that runs faster is not the best one. The code that is predictable and runs as fast as possible is. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
where's ppmtoxpm
I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to no avail. ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? -- david ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
#!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. Using a separate file stops that being a problem. now i understood completely. thank you ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: where's ppmtoxpm
I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to no avail. ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? No equivalent just the same netpbm package /usr/ports/graphics/netpbm ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
And why you think it's not better then gcc? because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. Still theory and ideology. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
[ Semi-apologies to all for being blunt, and possibly somewhat offensive. ] [ More tactful approaches have been shown to be ineffective, and Wojceich ] [ has a demonstrated propensity to blather on as though he knows more ] [ about everything than anyone else. ] From: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Yes Wojciech, I can attempt an answer for you. Pay attention, this gets very complex. The decision to move to Clang was motivated by what is best for the project, and not what is best for Wojciech. still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. Your entire line of reasoning so far has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your_ use. The Project does not make decisions based on what is best for any particular user -- be it 'Wojceich' or _anyone_ else. You admit you are 'not a developer'. That *you* don't see problems, is irrelevant to whether those who _are_ developers do. Your perceptions of problems, or the lack thereof, is similarly immaterial. Those who _do_ do the work have a number of valid issues with GCC, of -long- standing. *Major* users of FreeBSD have serious 'issues' with the GPLv3, based on the opinions received from their professional legal counsel -- your legally uninformed opinion not withstanding. So please give an answer - not summary. What would be the use of *repeating* the _multiple_ valid reasons that, in combination, compelled the Project to make the change? They were already provided, once, far earlier in this thread. You dismissed them, and dragged in 'strawman' reasoning, based on arrogant personal bias and flawed reasoning/analysis. The facts; 1) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler doesn't matter. 2) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is when. 3) Nobody 'owes' you an explanation for why the decision was made. Nonetheless, you _were_ given an outline of the multiple factors that went into the decision. 4) In your personal view, you didn't find those reasons compelling. Too bad for you. But -irrelevant- to the decision process. 5) You _are_ 'free' to use GCC for anything you want, now or in the future. Nobody is under any obligation to make it particularly 'easy' for you. 6) In the future, to use GCC you may have to do lots of code fix-ups on base-system components -- to work around situations where GCC generates *BAD*CODE* from standards-compliant source, and/or where GNU has introduced 'extensions' that are incompatible with standards-compliant code. That _is_ your choice, and your problem. The Project has chosen not to spend any more time working around those _growing_ deficiencies in GCC. You have stated that you are 'not a developer' -- that means that you are _not_competent_ to have an opinion with regard to the magnitude of problems the 'non standards compliant' behavior of all even remotely- recent versions of GCC causes. 7) *Regardless* of your non-professional opinion of the GPLv3, it is a undisputed fact that it is 'unacceptable' to many large-scale users (and paying supporters of FreeBSD), based on the opinions of their PAID, PROFESSIONAL, legal counsel. 8) Keeping Wojciech happy, at the 'cost' of *all* the problems that using newer versions of GCC brings to the Project, it's staff, and it's _major_ users, is simply 'not worth it.' Live with it. Your ongoing bitching and moaning about the already-made decision is *NOT* going to change anything. And is getting tiresome to listen to. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Wed Jun 20 03:51:43 2012
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:04 +0200 (CEST)
From: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl
To: Matthew Seaman matt...@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following
contents:
#!/bin/sh
#
# Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba.
# PROVIDE: precedence
# REQUIRE: vboxheadless
# BEFORE: samba
:
Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary.
thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could
reboot.
But still - do you know why it is necessary?
An explanation written some 80 years ago;
'Because that way it will work'.
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MSI-X limitation in freebsd 8.2
Hi, MSI-x supports upto 2048 vectors but what I see in freebsd 8.2 is that when I use more than ~30 vectors, system becomes dead slow. Is there a limitation on number of msi vectors that can be used in 8.2? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: BSDL in opposite is often criticized a rape me license. No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his religious adherents. Please don't use atheist as a derogatory term. There are plenty of capitalistic atheists who neither lie nor have unmarried parents! I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire, but others in the thread (and other unrelated threads recently) are a FAR CRY from the technical support and discussion I expected. I thought I'd see an occasional RTFM, maybe a random WinBlows here and there... but this type of thing just diminished everyone involved. -- Stephen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I am also a newcomer and I agree with Stephen. But I guess the only way is to simply ignore those who make such statements. I don't see much benefit in arguing or reasoning with them. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Stephen Cook scli...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: BSDL in opposite is often criticized a rape me license. No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his religious adherents. Please don't use atheist as a derogatory term. There are plenty of capitalistic atheists who neither lie nor have unmarried parents! I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire, but others in the thread (and other unrelated threads recently) are a FAR CRY from the technical support and discussion I expected. I thought I'd see an occasional RTFM, maybe a random WinBlows here and there... but this type of thing just diminished everyone involved. -- Stephen ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:04:47 +0200 Fred Morcos articulated: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Stephen Cook scli...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: BSDL in opposite is often criticized a rape me license. No, it is not, except perhaps by lying atheist Marxist bastards and his religious adherents. Please don't use atheist as a derogatory term. There are plenty of capitalistic atheists who neither lie nor have unmarried parents! I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire, but others in the thread (and other unrelated threads recently) are a FAR CRY from the technical support and discussion I expected. I thought I'd see an occasional RTFM, maybe a random WinBlows here and there... but this type of thing just diminished everyone involved. I am also a newcomer and I agree with Stephen. But I guess the only way is to simply ignore those who make such statements. I don't see much benefit in arguing or reasoning with them. A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would seem to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness of FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six or more responses, seems to inevitably result in Godwin's Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law being invoked. You might also want to check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum. I just read it for the first time a few days ago. You might also want to familiarize yourself with the term Sour Grapes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes. It is expressed by a certain clique here quite frequently. By the way Fred, please don't Top Post. That pisses people off too, plus it makes following a really good argument a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Welcome to the fray ... -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
X broken - top quarter of the screen not updated by *some* programs - EXA/XAA issue?
Hi This is on HP Compaq 6715s laptop, amd64, r236740M. At some point (prior to the recent png- triggered update) I started seeing this strainge behaviour: The top part of the screen, about 1/4, is not updated by some windows, and the exact behaviour is affected by Option AccelMethod. For example if I have Option AccelMethod EXA Then xterm and xpdf don't update the top part of their windows, which happens to be in top 1/4 of the screen. If I resize the windows such that the top 1/4 of screen is not used, then the whole window is updated. However other programs, e.g. firefox, are not affected. If I switch to XAA: Option AccelMethod XAA then the situation is partly reversed. Now xterm is not affected, but firefox can't update the top part of it's window, if it happens to occupy the top 1/4 of the screen. xpdf behaviour is unaffected - whether I use XAA or EXA, xpdf can't update the top part of its window if it lies in the top 1/4 of the screen. I'm not sure what to make of it. Below are my xorg.conf, xdm.log and Xorg.0.log when I use EXA option. Finally, not sure if it's related, but I have to disable DRI for X to work at all. Please advise Thanks *** xorg.conf *** Section ServerLayout Identifier X.org Configured Screen 0 Screen0 0 0 InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer InputDeviceKeyboard0 CoreKeyboard EndSection Section Files ModulePath /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/ FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/ FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/ FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/ FontPath /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/terminus-font/ EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Keyboard0 Driver kbd EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol auto Option Device /dev/sysmouse Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7 EndSection Section Monitor #DisplaySize 330 210 # mm Identifier Monitor0 VendorName LPL ModelNamed600 EndSection Section Device Identifier Card0 Driver radeon VendorName Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI BoardName RS690M [Radeon X1200 Series] BusID PCI:1:5:0 Option DRI off Option AccelMethod EXA EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Card0 MonitorMonitor0 SubSection Display Viewport 0 0 Depth 24 Modes 1280x1280 EndSubSection EndSection *** xdm.log *** xdm info (pid 50419): Starting xdm info (pid 50419): Starting X server on :0 X.Org X Server 1.7.7 Release Date: 2010-05-04 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT amd64 Current Operating System: FreeBSD mech-aslap239.men.bris.ac.uk 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #1 r236740M: Tue Jun 12 15:17:21 BST 2012 r...@mech-aslap239.men.bris.ac.uk:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BUZI amd64 Build Date: 11 June 2012 12:11:20PM Current version of pixman: 0.24.2 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: /var/log/Xorg.0.log, Time: Wed Jun 20 12:38:59 2012 (==) Using config file: /etc/X11/xorg.conf XRANDR name: VGA-0 Connector: VGA CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 DDC reg: 0x7e50 XRANDR name: LVDS Connector: LVDS LCD1: INTERNAL_LVTM1 DDC reg: 0x7e40 Dac detection success finished output detect: 0 finished output detect: 1 finished all detect Dac detection success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success Output CRT1 disable success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Blank CRTC 1 success Disable CRTC 1 success Output LCD1 disable success Blank CRTC 0 success Disable CRTC 0 success Set CRTC 0 Source success Mode 1280x800 - 1440 823 10 Picked PLL 0 best_freq: 71152 best_feedback_div: 159 best_frac_feedback_div: 0 best_ref_div: 2 best_post_div: 16 Set CRTC 0 PLL success Set CRTC Timing success Set CRTC 0 Overscan success Not using RMX scaler 0 setup success
Re: Why Clang
Really, this format of discussion is rather exception than rule (from my experience). Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD mailing list at all. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Why-Clang-tp5715861p5720039.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I no. it is temporary. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 Matthew Seaman wrote: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. Why? None of the dummy scripts in the base system have a :. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would seem to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness of FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six or more strange but usefulness of FreeBSD wasn't questioned. By the way Fred, please don't Top Post. That pisses people off too, Well. I have to explain people at least once a day not to do it. Sometimes i even get a result and sometime someone learn. rarely. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
But still - do you know why it is necessary? An explanation written some 80 years ago; 'Because that way it will work'. if you don't have anything to say - just don't do it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
still not stopped personal attacks (last part of last sentence) but lets forget. Fact; that was NOT a personal attack. Your entire line of reasoning so far has been about -your- preferences, and things as you see them, for _your_ What is specifically my preference? 1) Your opinion about the choice of the standard compiler doesn't matter. Once more - messing with my words and you know this. I am saying that it doesn't matter others than performance. Clang performance is just bad. 2) The decision _has_ been made. The only question at this point is when. And can be reversed because it is faulty. I successfully predicted the fall of linux (in quality point of view) years ago, then netbsd - after this and my prediction were good. Now i predict FreeBSD will fall within 2015 time frame. What i mean fall - that it would be better to use older version as long as possible because newer are worse. For now - FreeBSD 6 was an improvement - FreeBSD 7 was an improvement, except first releases but that's normal - FreeBSD 8 was a big improvement in performance and quality. FreeBSD 9 as for now: - have similar performance at most - have some improvement and important functionality like TRIM support. - have some useful functionality like softdep journalling, but risky. Still - forcing full check reveals some inconsistencies now and then. FreeBSD 10 will unlikely be better, but for sure slower unless you will force gcc build that MAYBE will work. possibly not. So now there will be more and more backports done by users just for new drivers until something that replace FreeBSD will be available. Assuming there will at all. Wish i am wrong. Twice i wasn't ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:47:29 +0100 RW articulated: On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:45:07 +0100 Matthew Seaman wrote: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. Why? None of the dummy scripts in the base system have a :. From man rc EXAMPLES The following is a minimal rc.d/ style script. Most scripts require lit- tle more than the following. #!/bin/sh # # PROVIDE: foo # REQUIRE: bar_service_required_to_precede_foo . /etc/rc.subr name=foo rcvar=`set_rcvar` command=/usr/local/bin/foo load_rc_config $name run_rc_command $1 You will notice the prominent use of :. If you feel that is in error, please feel free to submit a PR against it. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Need latest xorg
Hi FreeBSD - I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the world my install still stops at /x11/9menu I live in Maine (USA) so I pick the MIT primary ftp5 since I inadvertly determined it was MIT. ftp1 also sends me on a trip around the world with the same result. If I can install xorg-7.5.2 I am hoping then that the install of kde4-4.8.4 will complete on this new install of FreeBSD 9.0 Does anyone else have a favorite ftp that cooperates? (And I notice the location in the server is different from the primaries on other servers?) Steve -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Really, this format of discussion is rather exception than rule (from my experience). or rather - discussion is a rule :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On 20.06.2012 13:45, Jakub Lach wrote: Really, this format of discussion is rather exception than rule (from my experience). Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD mailing list at all. Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is the first one. But I believe it is a good proof, that clang is a serious alternative to gcc - else people would talk about an interesting project or something like that. Greetings Peter. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Why-Clang-tp5715861p5720039.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Wojciech Puchar wrote: And why you think it's not better then gcc? because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. Test show only that clang-compiled binaries are still subject for improvement. It doesn't show how strict and clear this binary is. As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. You mileage may vary. I'm using clang-compiled world ports on production servers since clang was added to the ports. And nothing bad happens to me. Still theory and ideology. That what you do too. You are stating clang is less potent only by counting speed estimates. You leave aside things like standard compliance, ease of use and healthy ecosystem. Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they are fine with that one. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:48:15 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar articulated: A somewhat haphazardly search of the postings in this forum would seem to indicate that any post questioning the ethics or usefulness of FreeBSD as compared to other operating systems that elicit six or more strange but usefulness of FreeBSD wasn't questioned. The ethics of using clang most certainly were. Perhaps you missed the word or that I used to distinquish between the possible causes. Furthermore, the usefulness of using clang VS GCC were also voiced by at least on poster. He stated, correctly or not is not an issue here, that clang produces slower code VS GCC for math intensive operations. It was also pointed out that Linux is solidly in bed with GCC, at least at the present time. Therefore, the other operating system requirement has been fulfilled. I did not say, nor mean to convey that every condition had to be met in every post in every thread. It is more of a cumulative effect. Very easy to overlook unless each post is read in its entirety. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
speed estimates. there are a difference between speed estimate and actual speed - and i talk about the latter only. Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they are fine with that one. their problem. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD mailing list at all. Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is the first one. because such situation like now never happened - changing C compiler to much worse because of political reasons. But I believe it is a good proof, that clang is a serious alternative to gcc it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default compiler. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang)
On Wednesday 20 June 2012 12:59:51 Stephen Cook wrote: On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: [snip childish invective] I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire No, they aren't. And I notice that whoever is primarily responsible for it isn't even prepared to sign his own name to his tirades - he (or she) is using anonymous remailers. (Irritatingly this makes him difficult to killfile - it turns out there's at least one recent legitimate post that's been sent through a similar remailer so I can't just toss them all away). Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
On 6/20/12 11:09 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote: On 20/06/2012 09:51, Wojciech Puchar wrote: Create a new file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/precedence with the following contents: #!/bin/sh # # Persuade vboxheadless to start before samba. # PROVIDE: precedence # REQUIRE: vboxheadless # BEFORE: samba : Make it executable. Note -- the ':' does seem to be necessary. thank you for help. I will test it when being on place and could reboot. But still - do you know why it is necessary? cannot i just add BEFORE: samba in vboxheadless? Yes, that should work too. However any time you update vboxheadless you'll have to remember to add that modification back to the rc script. Using a separate file stops that being a problem. If you want to test that your changes are having the desired effect without having to reboot: # rcorder /etc/rc.d/* /usr/local/etc/rc.d/* which will print out the order all the rc-scripts would be run. (It includes all the scripts, not just the ones enabled in /etc/rc.conf, but that shouldn't matter.) Cheers, Matthew A very helpful post, adding to favorites. Might that, possibly, warrant a handbook entry ? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Hello all, I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show relations between the different topics and questions (put them into context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer one question by one. Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more question(s). Cheers, Fred ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Flaming mailing lists (was Re: Why Clang)
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Jonathan McKeown j.mcke...@ru.ac.za wrote: On Wednesday 20 June 2012 12:59:51 Stephen Cook wrote: On 6/19/2012 4:06 PM, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: [snip childish invective] I'm a relative newcomer. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists always this flame-y? I realize that this particular post might be trolling / satire No, they aren't. And I notice that whoever is primarily responsible for it isn't even prepared to sign his own name to his tirades - he (or she) is using anonymous remailers. (Irritatingly this makes him difficult to killfile - it turns out there's at least one recent legitimate post that's been sent through a similar remailer so I can't just toss them all away). Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org The anonymous remailer's administrator can be contacted and made aware of the abusive email sent through it. To quote an automated message from the remailer: quote This message is being sent to you automatically in response to an email that you sent to mixmas...@remailer.privacy.at. If you did not send such an email, please ignore this message. This remailer is a free service that allows individuals including crime victims, domestic violence victims, persons in recovery, and others, such as those living under oppressive regimes, to communicate confidentially in a manner that ensures their privacy under even the most adverse conditions. To obtain information on how you can use this service, please send an email with subject remailer-help to mixmas...@remailer.privacy.at. Should you have received an unwelcome message through this service or to report problems with this service, please contact the Administrator at ab...@remailer.privacy.at. Thank you for your interest in secure and private communications, -- The Austria Remailer Administrator /quote ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: where's ppmtoxpm
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012, David Tilbrook wrote: I have searched for ppmtoxpm in ports and in FreeBSD Search Services to no avail. ppmtoxpm converts a portable pixmap into an X11 pixmap. Is there a freebsd equivalent or alternative? In the ports, graphics/netpbm. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Wojciech, Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG project? 1. Find simple programs with severe performance issues 2. Report to the CLANG developers 3. They fix, tweak, and tune the compiler 4. FreeBSD imports latest release 5. Everybody wins ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Polytropon wrote: I assume it's just an aspect of still being too young in regards of missing the difference between freedom and anarchy: the right to extend one's freedom is limited as soon as it limits the freedom of others. Maybe another aspect is the lack of discussion culture and the proper use of means of language. You often find such behaviour among school children of the lower grades. Using words without knowing their meaning is very typical for people in puberty. :-) Yes. Questions@ has some un- self- disciplined kids/ drunks/ trolls, who degrade this list's signal to noise ratio. They could be reduced by a combo. of eg: - forcible unsub, black list, - block of anon. remailer domains - making this list subscribtion required before posting. (which would make it harder for newbies fresh to FreeBSD, but we need some solution) I suggest others too should complain to postmas...@freebsd.org appending offenders bad postings, let postmaster decide action. The only other option I can think of is to personaly extend my procmail filter on my own questions@ incoming stream, to delete all postings from listed individuals. Many others could do similar, but massive inefficiency, newbies couldn't, the noise on the raw unfiltered list in web achives would damage FreeBSD. Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
Hi, On Wednesday 20 June 2012 19:32:24 Fred Morcos wrote: I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? whatever you will be doing, some will say that it is wrong. The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show relations between the different topics and questions (put them into context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer one question by one. Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more question(s). I think that it is the best to ask. If people get disturbed by your questions, they should ignore it. The majority will be keen to help. You have choosen the general list. In case you cannot get an answer to a specific question, you can still post the same question later on the specific mailing list. Just be practical. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
They could be reduced by a combo. of eg: - forcible unsub, black list, - block of anon. remailer domains - making this list subscribtion required before posting. (which would make it harder for newbies fresh to FreeBSD, but we need some solution) I suggest others too should complain to postmas...@freebsd.org appending offenders bad postings, let postmaster decide action. The only other option I can think of is to personaly extend my procmail filter on my own questions@ incoming stream, to delete all postings from listed individuals. Many others could do similar, but massive inefficiency, newbies couldn't, the noise on the raw unfiltered list in web achives would damage FreeBSD. while subscription is good idea, as well as your personal blacklist, your other proposition would require strict political compatibility with those who would decide about who cannot post. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Nothing wrong with productive flaming for me, but it's just not typical code of conduct in FreeBSD mailing list at all. Actually I can't remember any flame-war about system compilers - this is the first one. because such situation like now never happened - changing C compiler to much worse because of political reasons. I think you misspelled licensing and sponsorship. It's a fairly indisputable fact that without sponsoring users FreeBSD cannot move forward, and those sponsoring users do not get a warm fuzzy from the base system being built with a) An unmaintained GPLv2 licensed gcc or b) A maintained and current GPLv3 gcc with GPLv3 licensed libc. So between the options of 1) continuing to use an out of date compiler 2) alienating sponsors and losing their financial and developer support and 3) switching to a BSD licensed compiler/libc ... it's fairly obvious to me that options 1) and 2) lead to irrelevance and death of the project. clang being better than or on par with gcc in every conceivable category right this instant is far less important than continued existence and relevancy to sponsoring users, IMO. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? split. or you will end with enormous messy thread. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
it is only a proof that it was decided to put it as FreeBSD default compiler. Everything is said, explained and discusse why this decision is made.. So Explanation about the decision was already made isn't explanation. but i don't require any explanation. actually i don't require anything. what do you want? that someone says Yes you are right clang is shit?. No i don't like words but actions. and i am feared because once such projects like FreeBSD will start to decide about major things this way, it's beginning of end. Politics won over performance and quality. sad. From my side - end of topic ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG project? because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL licence. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:14:09PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: And why you think it's not better then gcc? because - as you already should know - test shows otherwise. You just ignored everything Volodymyr Kostyrko said about the other factors that are also important for a compiler being considered better. Good job. I have a hint to share with you, though: Ignoring an argument does not make it wrong. As well as FreeBSD running predictable with gcc anyway. . . . for some use cases, evidently including yours. In my case, Clang's stability and predictability is better than GCC's, and in some other cases it may be *much* better. In the cases where it isn't, that's a case of standards-noncompliant code in a port causing problems, and it is a problem that is being fixed prior to FreeBSD 10 release with Clang as the sole compiler in the base system (last I heard). This is what happens when you use a more standards-compliant compiler: you get more stable and predictable behavior. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 02:16:43PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: speed estimates. there are a difference between speed estimate and actual speed - and i talk about the latter only. You're talking about poorly managed benchmarks that are imprecise and prone to fluctuation, applying only to very specific cases that are not necessarily very broadly representative, but you are talking about them as though they are perfectly representative of all cases. That is, at best, speed estimates. Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they are fine with that one. their problem. No -- it's their solution. It would be a problem only if the previous statement said and they are *not* fine with that one. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
Besides, NetBSD and OpenBSD has already selected and using pcc now. And they are fine with that one. I wish that or something like that were true, but pcc is dead even in OpenBSD packages/ports. There was just some discussion on misc@ I am hoping for the day gcc is only used on Linux and many free compilers are used everywhere else. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Attaching a monitor via vga
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 07:27:33AM -0600, Warren Block wrote: Adding a new mode should not be needed for most monitors. I do this to set up the external video: xrandr --output VGA --above LVDS That's to span a single desktop over both monitors. Some desktop environments have their own ideas about which monitors are attached and what part of the desktop is shown, and that must be changed in the DE's settings. My use case involves putting everything on one monitor at a time -- the larger desktop LCD when it's plugged in, and the laptop display when the external monitor is *not* plugged in. From the sound of the request, that is the use case the orignial querent in this thread had in mind as well. Your tip could well be useful for some use cases, though. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:32:24 +0200, Fred Morcos wrote: Hello all, I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show relations between the different topics and questions (put them into context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer one question by one. Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more question(s). I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most impressed with it so far. The first thing to mention is that this is an extremely helpful list (I won't call it a newsgroup because it isn't one, though I read it via gmane), and as such is most useful. Ask away! Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is the place I always look first. Good luck! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
These are good guidelines to follow: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/article.html Try to avoid X Y problems. Initiating it with the root question will give the best results. On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Fred Morcos fred.mor...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am new to FreeBSD, coming from a GNU/Linux background (most comfortable with Archlinux). I compiled a series of questions I would like to ask in different areas and categories. Should I send them all in a single email message or should I split them by subject/topic into different emails? The advantage of the former is that I will be able to easily show relations between the different topics and questions (put them into context) as well as articulate the setup I would like to reach. The advantage of the latter is that it is cleaner and simpler to answer one question by one. Also, I have done a bit of poking around to answer each of my own questions, obviously with no luck, so I do not mind RTFM-ing - I would actually prefer it, please feel free to link me to an article, tutorial, man page or handbook that already answers one or more question(s). Cheers, Fred ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: New to FreeBSD - Some questions
I'm quite new to FreeBSD too (RHEL/Fedora background), and am most impressed with it so far. rather huge difference. Secondly (and probably stating the obvious), the handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is the place I always look first. and third - manuals. They are in sync with system and actually VERY useful. while i was still (long time ago) using linux most common manual was like this manual is outdated. Use texinfo documentation. and texinfo docs was often outdated too. Today it is most probably look at wikipedia ;) Of course i means FreeBSD base system, ports are not part of FreeBSD and quality varies. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
I wish that or something like that were true, but pcc is dead even in OpenBSD packages/ports. There was just some discussion on misc@ I am hoping for the day gcc is only used on Linux and many free compilers are used everywhere else. me too. but first we need to have Free compiler that would be at least comparable with gcc in resulting code. Actually i would like to see that even linux migrates out of GNU communism. For now - as i've read in many places, less than 50% of newly developed open source software use GPL licence. It was 95% not long time ago. Good. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. Why is that so important for you? -- chs, ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. Why is that so important for you? if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get the answer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. Why is that so important for you? if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get the answer. No, I don't. And don't patronize me that way. You'll loose. -- chs, ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: seems i cannot fully understand {/,/usr/local/}/etc/rc.d/*
From: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl But still - do you know why it is necessary? An explanation written some 80 years ago; 'Because that way it will work'. if you don't have anything to say - just don't do it. practice what you preach. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:06:31 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? Releasing something as GPL does not mean you give up copyright. If I understood this whole thing correctly, _you_ (as the creator) can still use the source that you've just released to the public (under the GPL rules) and create derivates from it, continue development internally into a different direction and also use it in a commercial way as closed-source. _Others_ can not do so. The act of releasing is, as far as I know, tied to a specific version of the source tree - the point from which others can see, download, use and modify the source counts. If I understand the GPL correctly, from that point (i. e. when contributions have taken place) you cannot turn the result into closed source. However, with your own work, you can. Maybe some lawyer intellectual property copyright expert can be more precise and elaborate. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:06:31PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: I have some friends that develop software. They had released it under GNU umbrella. Later on, other folks were taking advantage and not isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? When you license something, you still own the copyright. You can then release it under other licenses as well, and for versions you have modified you can release it under another license *only* if you choose, thus no longer having the GPL attached to those version. The old version's license, though, cannot be rescinded for those who have already received it under those terms, which then allows them to pass it on to others under the same license. This means that you can simultaneously offer a piece of software for which you own the copyright both under the GPL and as a paid-license product for those who want different license terms than the GPL, so yeah, you *can* use it in closed source software even when distributing it under the GPL at the same time if *you* own the copyright or if you get a separate license from whoever owns the copyright. The people who are restricted from using it in a closed-source project are those who do not own the copyright, do not pay the copyright holder for a different license, and acquire it under the GPL. In short, the people most restricted in such circumstances are the people who make up the open source development community. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:07:09PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: email elided for purposes of courtesy wrote: Will i be able to compile FreeBSD base system with gcc after some time? not sure. Why is that so important for you? if you would read even less than carefully the topic you will get the answer. I'll try to help out, here. Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: 1. other concerns that might apply 2. that things appear highly likely to change 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:40:56PM +0400, Евгений Лактанов wrote: 20.06.2012 18:47, Mark Felder пишет: On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:14 -0500, Wojciech Puchar email address elided for purposes of courtesy wrote: [attribution lost by Wojciech Puchar and I'm too lazy to check] Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG project? because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL licence. GCC performs well, but it is a very messy undocumented codebase which makes maintaining it a nightmare. Just ask Google -- you'll find many others saying the same thing. It would take MORE work to get FreeBSD devs up to speed on the GCC codebase to add the features we want than it is to cooperate with the CLANG community and help them make their compiler better than GCC in every test case. It is the classic developer/user argument. It is also stupid. The user side simply doesn't have the same needs, it can't understand how freaking hard it is sometimes to debug a large and complex program in a badly documented environment or worse with undocumented features. If it works faster ergo it is better - that is the only criteria to really have a meaning to a user. It's bikeshed painting. Someone who doesn't understand the many factors that apply, and doesn't even *want* to know, picks one thing he thinks he understands and argues about it in an attempt to make the entire project change course. Well, dammit, I *like* blue, and he can take his bucket of red paint home with him to paint his *own* bikeshed. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Fwd: Need latest xorg
I don't seem to have generated much comment. I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? --- Forwarded message --- From: Lynn Steven Killingsworth blue.seahorse.syndic...@gmail.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Subject: Need latest xorg Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:29 -0400 Hi FreeBSD - I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the world my install still stops at /x11/9menu I live in Maine (USA) so I pick the MIT primary ftp5 since I inadvertly determined it was MIT. ftp1 also sends me on a trip around the world with the same result. If I can install xorg-7.5.2 I am hoping then that the install of kde4-4.8.4 will complete on this new install of FreeBSD 9.0 Does anyone else have a favorite ftp that cooperates? (And I notice the location in the server is different from the primaries on other servers?) Steve -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Need latest xorg
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth blue.seahorse.syndic...@gmail.com wrote: I don't seem to have generated much comment. I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? Newer AMD videocards and Freebsd is just pure pain. Dont think the newer xorg will change much. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
No sound in Flash
FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found nothing useful. I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. It works well, and the video element seems fine and smooth. But on (for example) YouTube, there is no audio at all. This is despite the fact that .mp3s, .mp4s, .avis, .movs etc. all play perfectly (in mplayer). There is probably a simple solution, but I cannot find it. Can anyone help? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? Releasing something as GPL does not mean you give up copyright. If I understood this whole thing correctly, I'm not a lawyer but i repeat what i've read time ago, and .. that is a logical result. The act of releasing is, as far as I know, tied to a specific version of the source tree - the point from which others can see, download, use and modify the source counts. If I understand the GPL correctly, from that point (i. e. when contributions have taken place) you cannot turn the result into closed source. However, with your own work, you can. thanks for explanation. from what i know (still, possibly incorrent) if i am hired as a programmer and write a program, this program belong to the company and i couldn't use it everywhere at least officially. I wasn't ever hired as a programmer (or fortunately, as anyone else) so it wasn't ever a problem for me. but that was my reasoning. So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they always can turn it to BSD licenced ? am i right? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
isn't it that once you release your own work as GPL you don't really own this and even you cannot use it in closed source software? When you license something, you still own the copyright. You can then release it under other licenses as well, and for versions you have modified you can release it under another license *only* if you choose, thanks of explanation. i believed that the rules of GPL affects everyone including the programmer who wrote the code. This is good as with programs that doesn't have huge list of authors, it is still possible to get away from GPL. Would be nice to see someday that term Free software will only mean free software, not free software but... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
21.06.2012 01:14, Chad Perrin пишет: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:40:56PM +0400, Евгений Лактанов wrote: 20.06.2012 18:47, Mark Felder пишет: On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:43:14 -0500, Wojciech Puchar email address elided for purposes of courtesy wrote: [attribution lost by Wojciech Puchar and I'm too lazy to check] Why not make FreeBSD better for everyone by cooperating with the CLANG project? because we already have great compiler - GCC. In spite of using GPL licence. GCC performs well, but it is a very messy undocumented codebase which makes maintaining it a nightmare. Just ask Google -- you'll find many others saying the same thing. It would take MORE work to get FreeBSD devs up to speed on the GCC codebase to add the features we want than it is to cooperate with the CLANG community and help them make their compiler better than GCC in every test case. It is the classic developer/user argument. It is also stupid. The user side simply doesn't have the same needs, it can't understand how freaking hard it is sometimes to debug a large and complex program in a badly documented environment or worse with undocumented features. If it works faster ergo it is better - that is the only criteria to really have a meaning to a user. It's bikeshed painting. Someone who doesn't understand the many factors that apply, and doesn't even *want* to know, picks one thing he thinks he understands and argues about it in an attempt to make the entire project change course. Well, dammit, I *like* blue, and he can take his bucket of red paint home with him to paint his *own* bikeshed. Haven't heard it described like this, but appropriate. Also the Danth's law applies always) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:57:17 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: from what i know (still, possibly incorrent) if i am hired as a programmer and write a program, this program belong to the company and i couldn't use it everywhere at least officially. That is highly debatable and mostly subject to the content of your programmer's contract. In most cases, one would assume that by receiving a payment, you give the rights of creator to that company. But it doesn't neccessarily have to be the case! Imagine a photographer who takes photos of you, e. g. for a new passport. You pay the photographer for the developed (today: printed) photos you receive, for example 4 or 6 pieces. You do _not_ obtain the right regarding the image by that payment. The photographer (as the creator of the image) still owns it. You can buy it separately. (At least this is the case here in Germany according to the law.) To translate this to a programmer's job: You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You deliver the program. That's what you are paid for. Still the source code is yours (as _you_ are the creator, no matter who you sold a copy to). So I would assume that you can still use the program for further projects that run independently from that customer. EXCEPT - of course, there is a contract specifying otherwise. So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they always can turn it to BSD licenced ? am i right? A general consensus of the issuers of the license (continuous licensing) could maybe do that, I assume. Still there would be the possibility to create a fork (common means in open source when something needs to be changed that doesn't go well with mainstream), and that fork could keep the old license. Now there are two independent projects. BUT - as everyone is free to obtain, modify and re-issue GPL source code, I'm not sure such a consensus could be reached. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as an employer in software company. So - if authors of any project, no matter how numerous, will all without exception agree that they want to get rid of GPL, then - they always can turn it to BSD licenced ? am i right? A general consensus of the issuers of the license (continuous licensing) could maybe do that, I assume. Still there would be the possibility to create a fork (common means in open source when something needs to be changed that doesn't go well with mainstream), and that fork could keep the old license. Now there are two independent projects. that is fine. BUT - as everyone is free to obtain, modify and re-issue GPL source code, I'm not sure such a consensus could be reached. by creating a BSD licenced fork - constructed from parts written by all developers that - as you said - have personal right to their code. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
the answer. I'll try to help out, here. Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: 1. other concerns that might apply 2. that things appear highly likely to change 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No sound in Flash
FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found nothing useful. I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. Flash is adobe product and they don't provide binaries for FreeBSD, at least they didn't. if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed source code. Flash it not a standard. If you want flash mostly to view youtube use youtube-dl from ports. xpi-unplug plugin for firefox (also in ports) often helps with pages that have movies embedded with player. The side effect of using both tools would be having all movies actually downloaded - so you will actually HAVE that movies. downloaded movies play fine with mplayer. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:22 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as an employer in software company. Sorry, I misread the situation. In this case I assume that any half-baked employer will have a specific clause in the contract that will cause that all your creations will be attributed to the employer immediately, the wage being an act of selling your intellectual property (if this term applies here, not sure, it's widely stressed) to the employer who becomes the new owner and creator on behalf. It's also possible that similar content can be present in a contract between client and customer (just like between employer and employee). I highly assume that if such a clause is _not_ present, the natural and normal interpretation appears, i. e. you are the creator, copyright is yours. Even if it sounds strange, it still can apply in an employment setting. But as I said, contracts and local law may have some regulations that applies. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: CLANG vs GCC tests of fortran/f2c program
21.06.2012 02:26, Wojciech Puchar пишет: the answer. I'll try to help out, here. Christer Solskogen: I think the reason that is so very important to Wojciech Puchar is the fact that he is incapable of imagining: 1. other concerns that might apply 2. that things appear highly likely to change 3. that a negligible performance difference is . . . negligible I'm pretty sure he's not running compute clusters on FreeBSD, after all. i would recommend you to take more care about yourself, and not me. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Watch out, we got a badass over here ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
No sound in my FreeBSD 9
$uname -a
FreeBSD mybsd.zsoft.com 9.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan 3
07:15:25 UTC 2012
r...@obrian.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386
$sudo sysctl -w hw.snd.verbose=2
$cat /dev/sndstat
FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm: 32bit 2009061500/i386)
Installed devices:
pcm0: Intel ICH4 (82801DB) at io 0xde081000, 0xde082000 irq 17 bufsz 16384
(1p:1v/1r:1v) default
snddev flags=0x2e2AUTOVCHAN,BUSY,MPSAFE,REGISTERED,VPC
[pcm0:play:dsp0.p0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x2100,
0x0004
interrupts 44126, underruns 0, feed 44126, ready 0
[b:4096/2048/2|bs:4096/2048/2]
channel flags=0x2100BUSY,HAS_VCHAN
{userland} - feeder_mixer(0x00200010) - {hardware}
pcm0:play:dsp0.p0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp0]: spd 44100/48000, fmt
0x00200010, flags 0x1000, 0x0029
interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0
[b:0/0/0|bs:65536/2048/32]
channel flags=0x1000VIRTUAL
{userland} - feeder_root(0x00200010) - feeder_volume(0x00200010)
- feeder_rate(0x00200010 q:1 44100 - 48000) - {hardware}
[pcm0:record:dsp0.r0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x2100,
0x0005
interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 4096, sfree 4096
[b:4096/2048/2|bs:4096/2048/2]
channel flags=0x2100BUSY,HAS_VCHAN
{hardware} - feeder_root(0x00200010) - feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -
{userland}
pcm0:record:dsp0.r0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vr0]: spd 8000, fmt
0x0018, flags 0x1000, 0x
interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 0, sfree 0
[b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0]
channel flags=0x1000VIRTUAL
{hardware} - feeder_root(0x) - {userland}
$mixer
Mixer vol is currently set to 75:75
Mixer pcm is currently set to 75:75
Mixer speaker is currently set to 75:75
Mixer line is currently set to 75:75
Mixer mic is currently set to 0:0
Mixer cd is currently set to 75:75
Mixer rec is currently set to 75:75
Mixer igainis currently set to 0:0
Mixer line1is currently set to 75:75
Mixer phin is currently set to 0:0
$pciconf -lv | grep -i audio
device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio
Controller'
subclass = audio
subclass = audio
$dmesg | grep -i audio
pci1: multimedia, audio at device 0.0 (no driver attached)
However the sound is OK using XP on the same box (so the sound card has no
problem)
$gpart show ada0
= 63 39874304 ada0 MBR (19G)
63 19534977 1 !12 [active] (9.3G)
19535040 20338668 2 freebsd (9.7G)
39873708 659- free - (329k)
The GENERIC kernel has loaded driver( snd_ich ), but i can hear nothing.
Any suggestion is appreciated!
-
e^(π.i) + 1 = 0
--
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Re: No sound in my FreeBSD 9
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:21 PM, sw2wolf czsq...@163.com wrote: pci1: multimedia, audio at device 0.0 (no driver attached) http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/sound-setup.html -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
Hi Polytropon, cc questions@ (No CC Wojciech P. as my local filters drop text from him ) To translate this to a programmer's job: You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You deliver the program. That's what you are paid for. Still the source code is yours (as _you_ are the creator, no matter who you sold a copy to). So I would assume that you can still use the program for further projects that run independently from that customer. EXCEPT - of course, there is a contract specifying otherwise. There's often legal (copyright, patents, etc) discussions on FreeBSD lists, maybe we should have a le...@freebsd.org list on http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo There's 193 countries in the United Nations http://www.un.org/en/members/growth.shtml Some have different laws even within one country: In UK, England Scotland have different contract law: http://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/index.php/scotland-home/8094-scots-and-english-contract-law-false-friends Decades back USA employees by default retained more patent /or maybe copyright rights than UK employees. In UK by default it went to employer. But if a USA employer put a clause in to over- ride the default ? ... IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer etc. German employee law I don't know. I've always been freelance. Tip: Often mentioning the idea at the beginnning of contracts, technical project directors are happy to ask their legal dept. to add a simple clause they draft themselves along the lines of eg: Customer has exclusive rights to code written just for project. Programmer can keep publish general code written or enhanced for general tools not exclusively for project. Customer can keep use a copy of tools. Best to suggest such ideas at the beginning not end of projects. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called?
List, Sorry for the off-topic post. There are a lot of technically adept people on this list, so I thought I'd try my luck here: I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) I *don't* want closed-source kit robots where the point is to build the robot the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If that's what I need.) Basically, I want to do stuff like if input1() is True then apply_voltage_on_output3(), etc. Build my own traffic light, coffee maker, mars rover, automatic-plant waterer, whatever. What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? Robotics programming? Are there prefabricated, standard embedded boards and hardware specs that play together like PC parts do? In short, I don't even know where to start. Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's called I can google much more effectively ;) Thanks! -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why Clang
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Wed Jun 20 17:37:45 2012 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:33:35 +0200 From: Polytropon free...@edvax.de.r-bonomi.com To: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl Cc: FreeBSD Questions freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Antonio Olivares olivares14...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why Clang On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:25:22 +0200 (CEST), Wojciech Puchar wrote: You're being paid to write a program for a customer. You i don't talk that case, but if i am hired to write some part of program as an employer in software company. Sorry, I misread the situation. This is a situation addressed _specifically_ in Berne Convention copyright law, under the heading of 'work done for hire'. For _anything_ that falls under the 'work done for hire' clause(s), copyright (and _title_) reses with the party who 'hired' the work done. Work done by a 'contractor' under a 'purchase of services' contract is generally _not_ 'work done for hire' (although it -may- be, depending on the language of the contract), and thus, genenrall, copyright, etc. remains with the person who did the work, -- *unless* the contract specifies otherwise. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No sound in Flash
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 00:31:02 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: FreeBSD 9 (x86_64). Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I have googled assiduously and found nothing useful. I have installed Flash, following the instructions in the handbook. Flash is adobe product and they don't provide binaries for FreeBSD, at least they didn't. if you really need flash, you may install gnash from ports. not fully capable but usually works, and doesn't need linux emulator and closed source code. Thanks for the advice about gnash! I've installed it, and removed nspluginwrapper and all the linux stuff. It seems to work perfectly for my purposes. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called?
On 06/20/2012 06:54 PM, Modulok wrote: Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's called I can google much more effectively Mars rover is robotic/embedded. I am using this site myself. http://www.societyofrobots.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Need latest xorg
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Matthias Gamsjager mgamsja...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth blue.seahorse.syndic...@gmail.com wrote: I don't seem to have generated much comment. I suspect you are thinking as I do that if your servers don't immediately download then their is a bandit on my Internet line?? Newer AMD videocards and Freebsd is just pure pain. Dont think the newer xorg will change much. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Hi, Have you considered installing packages? I have a daily sync repo mirror of amd64 and i386 pkgs (Latest/Current) if you experience difficulty accessing the FTP servers. lemme know. Unfortunately I don't have everything mirrored at this time, and not sure how they would fly on 9-x :) Also latest xorg runs great with my AMD HD 6620G, obviously a different class than your AMD HD 7950 but I suppose it could also be considered a 'newer card', first released June 14, 2011, about 6 months before the 7950. Not sure when the cut-off date is. Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Need latest xorg
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Lynn Steven Killingsworth blue.seahorse.syndic...@gmail.com wrote: Hi FreeBSD - I have an AMD HD 7950 video card so I am trying to install the latest FreeBSD xorg available (7.5.2) for an updated driver. When I start make the install immediately stops at MesaLib-7.6.1.tar.gz. I can restart it on a primary using the location given then after a short time the install stops at /x11/9menu (/9menu-1.8.shar.gz) I can also attempt to restart this on a couple of servers but after a trip around the world my install still stops at /x11/9menu Post the error messages so we can tell what is going on instead of what you think is going on. A few tips: * Use a port managament tool, preferably portmaster. * set RANDOMIZE_MASTER_SITES in /etc/make.conf to force trying different download locations. * You may be interested in sysutils/fastest_cvsup -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: No surround sound with Creative SB Live! card
2012-06-18 20:27, David Demelier skrev: On 15/06/2012 13:25, Bernt Hansson wrote: On 2012-06-15 10:06, David Demelier wrote: On 15/06/2012 05:43, Edward M wrote: On 06/14/2012 09:03 AM, David Demelier wrote: I have an old SB Live! card with a 5.1 speaker set, but i can't get sound from center and rear speakers with mplayer. I'm using the snd_emu10kx driver and when I try to play a DVD I get sound only through the front speakers (and LFE) like a 2.1 Adding -channels 6 to the mplayer args does not help. Cheers, Sounds like the DVD surround audio is encoded in AC-3 Dolby Digital or DTS. So a decorder is needed. That's what mplayer says: == Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 6 ch, s16le, 448.0 kbit/9.72% (ratio: 56000-576000) Selected audio codec: [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AC-3) == AO: [oss] 48000Hz 6ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) What do you mean by a decoder is needed? Have you tried vlc or xine? It does not work with VLC too, do you need to tweak some settings? Try $ vlc filename I've tried a file that gave this error [0x2bb4b43c] main decoder error: no suitable decoder module for fourcc `mp4v'. VLC probably does not support this sound or video format. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: OT: Robotics or embedded or hardware programming... what is this called?
2012-06-21 03:54, Modulok skrev: List, Sorry for the off-topic post. There are a lot of technically adept people on this list, so I thought I'd try my luck here: I want to get started programming for hardware. Motors, sensors, actuators, etc. I have a programming background, (python, PHP, C++) but no experience with code that drives hardware. (Motors, sensors, etc.) I *don't* want closed-source kit robots where the point is to build the robot the book and thats it. I also don't want ladder logic-based PMC's. Some kind of micro-controller that runs a *nix flavor (or a BSD flavor!) would be great! (If that's what I need.) Basically, I want to do stuff like if input1() is True then apply_voltage_on_output3(), etc. Build my own traffic light, coffee maker, mars rover, automatic-plant waterer, whatever. What do you call this? Embedded programming? Generic hardware programming? Robotics programming? Are there prefabricated, standard embedded boards and hardware specs that play together like PC parts do? In short, I don't even know where to start. Even general pointers to books/websites would be great. Once I know what it's called I can google much more effectively ;) Thanks! -Modulok- That ballpark is quite large. I'll give you some links http://www.linuxcnc.org/ http://arduino.cc/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
