Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
I may add: On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:50:07 +0100, Freminlins freminl...@gmail.com wrote: I have used FreeBSD on the desktop for about 6 years (but not yet running 7.2). It has mostly been a pleasure. I'd like to say that I'm using FreeBSD on the desktop exclusively since version 4.0 and I've always been quite happy with it. No problems at all - since the big crash. When I was forced to use FreeBSD 7, I was a bit disappointed, I can honestly say this. But that has NEVER been a problem with the FreeBSD OS, but always with additional packages, so I won't blame the FreeBSD developers who deliver a faster system with every release - just to see that the installed packages (like X, browsers, OpenOffice etc.) just run slower and slower with each new version, and that's sad. I didn't like it when X was changed to individual packages, as it now takes considerably longer to install. And the output from pkg_info takes correspondingly longer to search through. It also installs two scripting languages (Perl and Python). I haven't had a problem configuring X for years. Especially because I'm running a quite old system, I am not interested in (or depending on) the new magical autodetection and autoconfiguration stuff - because it simply doesn't work for my hardware. I can't even set my screen size to 1400x1050 as I could in old XFree86, so I have to use xrandr. I always liked FreeBSD and its additional software for NOT having to mess around with in such a way. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned. :-) If something has changed which then causes problems to end users, then that is not good. And it's no good telling people use PCBSD or something else. PC-BSD has its own set of problems. Different ones, I agree, but they do exist. Especially the bad german internationalisation of KDE comes into mind. And you have to use quite up-to-date hardware. That's not what we want. We want to use FreeBSD on the desktop. Exactly. Don't try and put people off using FreeBSD. It would be much better to help them resolves the problems they are having. I agree with this, and it's the purpose of this helpful and polite mailing list. But it requires that users who seek help do this in a certain way. Things like OS bashing do not help. But I can understand the wish to express feelings of disappointment. I just question if this mailing list is the place to do so. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:19:14 -0800, Mel Flynn mel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.net wrote: That is very weird, since most of the community regards the 5.x series as the worst in FreeBSD's history. Until it completely destroyed itself, I had a 5.4-p? running at my home machine without any problems. Please let me emphasize this statement: WITHOUT. ANY. PROBLEMS. I have more trouble with 7-STABLE... I still have a 300 MHz P2 with FreeBSD 5.4-p12 that runs faster than my 2 GHz P4 with 7-STABLE which wonÄ't run mplayer correctly, games don't work, and much more. I feel that I have spent more time getting 7 to run halfway as good as 5 was. I've personally seen significant improvements in both reliability and performance since 5.x, with respect to kernel and base. System performance has gotten much better. I've experienced FreeBSD 6 only for server use, and tested it with PC-BSD on the desktop, so I don't have a usable opinion there. As far as I'm concerned, 7.2 is the best release so far. I'll make a copy of this statement and check if it's still true after I performed the update. :-) I do share the Xorg frustration, primarily because there is no alternative and has degraded into a linux X11 server, with some considerations for other operating systems, without any form of release engineering or regression testing. Allthough you can still get rid of some builtin problems, either by changing your configuration files or recompiling X with some compile time options, there's still the (important) first impression that some developers artificially made things harder to get X running, with no understandable reason. After some reading, I found out that HAL and DBUS, for example, are important and useful for getting Gnome's auto mounting facilities working, and that's good. But if you don't run Gnome and don't want any automounting stuff (maybe intendedly due to security reasons), you still sit there with this stuff required. While XFree86 was harder to configure, it's stability was far less of an issue. Depends on your hardware. XFree86 always configured fast, fine and correct on my systems. And it could run with 1400x1050 which X.org can't do anymore, surprisingly. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. -- Hervé Kempf: Pour sauver la planète, sortez du capitalisme. - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ af.gour...@videotron.ca wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. Try searching deeper within yourself for the issue. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 15:32 -0400, PJ wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 This is probably due to a buggy bios, try to disable USB legacy support, it should fix the problem (at least on mine) with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, Flash or Acroread have nothing to do with FreeBSD. Emulation is always something hazardous, it might work, it might not. hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to define useless ? It works like a charm here. Did you read the FAQ on freebsd.org/gnome ? off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform http://www.biodiversity.be Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Campus de la Plaine CP 257 Bâtiment NO, Bureau 4 N4 115C (Niveau 4) Boulevard du Triomphe, entrée ULB 2 B-1050 Bruxelles Mail: jci...@ulb.ac.be @biobel: http://biobel.biodiversity.be/person/show/471 Tel : 02 650 57 52 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Adam Vande Moreamvandem...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ af.gour...@videotron.ca wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. Try searching deeper within yourself for the issue. -- Adam Vande More I don't think that answer was helpful. PJ is not alone in frustration regarding 7.2. For many users, it's hard to tell whether the balance of difficulties lies in bugs or new manual configuration requirements of 7.2. I think much of the frustration lies in our perception of STABLE. When we upgraded from 7.1 (or 7.0), we expected a fairly smooth ride. I had frustrations related to X (hal), mounting drives (hal), printing (cups vs applications), and printing (gimp vs hpijs). Yes, I read the (uncentralized) documentation. I even posted the urls of a few pages on this list for others to find. Again, the effort feels inconsistent with STABLE -- my perception only, I'm sure 7.2 meets a technical definition. Those of us who upgraded further, to 7.2p1 and beyond, faced additional challenges related to the change in the default version of Python. Keep in mind, for many of us, this is all in addition to massive changes in KDE. Simply put, I had a much easier time when I installed 5.0. Your mileage may have varied. FreeBSD is still my choice for web and database serving. As for the desktop and printing, I will probably use Mac OS X until a few months after FreeBSD 8.0 is released. And that's okay. There is no law that states an operating system has to meet every computing need. Andrew ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thursday 30 July 2009 12:50:11 Andrew Gould wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Adam Vande Moreamvandem...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ af.gour...@videotron.ca wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. Try searching deeper within yourself for the issue. -- Adam Vande More I don't think that answer was helpful. It's the right answer though. PJ is not alone in frustration regarding 7.2. For many users, it's hard to tell whether the balance of difficulties lies in bugs or new manual configuration requirements of 7.2. I think much of the frustration lies in our perception of STABLE. When we upgraded from 7.1 (or 7.0), we expected a fairly smooth ride. I had frustrations related to X (hal), mounting drives (hal), printing (cups vs applications), and printing (gimp vs hpijs). Yes, I read the (uncentralized) documentation. I think release CD's should not contain packages anymore, cause everything you describe here, has absolutely nothing to do with FreeBSD 7.2, but with 3rd party software that happened to be packaged at release time. You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not all) of the configuration has been done for you. When using FreeBSD you are expected to understand the handbook, configure things on your own and be able to troubleshoot problems and/or provide the right information in case you need help. If you can't do this, then FreeBSD is not the right tool for you. No harm in that, nobody forces you to use FreeBSD nor will convict you for using an OS that suits you better. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Adam Vande Moreamvandem...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ af.gour...@videotron.ca wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. Try searching deeper within yourself for the issue. -- Adam Vande More I don't think that answer was helpful. PJ is not alone in frustration regarding 7.2. For many users, it's hard to tell whether the balance of difficulties lies in bugs or new manual configuration requirements of 7.2. I think much of the frustration lies in our perception of STABLE. When we upgraded from 7.1 (or 7.0), we expected a fairly smooth ride. I had frustrations related to X (hal), mounting drives (hal), printing (cups vs applications), and printing (gimp vs hpijs). Yes, I read the (uncentralized) documentation. I even posted the urls of a few pages on this list for others to find. Again, the effort feels inconsistent with STABLE -- my perception only, I'm sure 7.2 meets a technical definition. Those of us who upgraded further, to 7.2p1 and beyond, faced additional challenges related to the change in the default version of Python. Keep in mind, for many of us, this is all in addition to massive changes in KDE. Simply put, I had a much easier time when I installed 5.0. Your mileage may have varied. FreeBSD is still my choice for web and database serving. As for the desktop and printing, I will probably use Mac OS X until a few months after FreeBSD 8.0 is released. And that's okay. There is no law that states an operating system has to meet every computing need. Andrew The answer was very help, depending on willing you are to take it. Ports in most cases has very little to do with what FBSD version you are running. Blaming it on a version when it had nothing to do with the problem is ignorant and harmful. Some like myself think the arrogance of pointing fingers on FreeBSD when it's clearly not at fault is a very poor approach in many regards. You'd need to man up and read the new X documentation on whatever X platform you use anyway, it's not limited to FreeBSD. Updating libraries is a chore, no dispute there, but if it's such an issue that you can't research it, stick to packages. Neither of you have actually stated a flaw specific to 7.2 Release. Python upgrade needed to happen on any version you wanted to take to 2.6. There was also info to leave it unchanged if you desired. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
2009/7/30 Mel Flynn mel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.netmel.flynn%2bfbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.net You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not all) of the configuration has been done for you. I disagree with that. It even says on the FreeBSD web site FreeBSD® is an advanced operating system for modern server, desktop I have used FreeBSD on the desktop for about 6 years (but not yet running 7.2). It has mostly been a pleasure. I didn't like it when X was changed to individual packages, as it now takes considerably longer to install. And the output from pkg_info takes correspondingly longer to search through. It also installs two scripting languages (Perl and Python). I haven't had a problem configuring X for years. If something has changed which then causes problems to end users, then that is not good. And it's no good telling people use PCBSD or something else. That's not what we want. We want to use FreeBSD on the desktop. Don't try and put people off using FreeBSD. It would be much better to help them resolves the problems they are having. -- Mel MF. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thursday 30 July 2009 14:50:07 Freminlins wrote: 2009/7/30 Mel Flynn mel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.netmel.flynn%2bfbsd.questi...@m ailing.thruhere.net You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not all) of the configuration has been done for you. I disagree with that. It even says on the FreeBSD web site FreeBSD® is an advanced operating system for modern server, desktop The key is that the Xorg software is *not* part of FreeBSD. It may work, it may not. A FreeBSD release is shipped with the intention that all software in base and kernel are working by default and if it's not, the FreeBSD developers claim responsibility for fixing it. The line is gray where it comes to X11, yet it's still a line. I have used FreeBSD on the desktop for about 6 years (but not yet running 7.2). It has mostly been a pleasure. I didn't like it when X was changed to individual packages, as it now takes considerably longer to install. And the output from pkg_info takes correspondingly longer to search through. It also installs two scripting languages (Perl and Python). I haven't had a problem configuring X for years. I never claimed that FreeBSD can't be used on a desktop, I've been doing that since 4.7-RELEASE. Whether you and me can do it, is not up for dispute. What is, is that bugs are attributed to 7.2-RELEASE, which are all bugs in 3rd party software and should be reported to ports@, with proper information if people care about those problems getting fixed. Even then it may be out of the hands of those volunteers, if it relies on propriety software of which the developers have expressed no interest to support FreeBSD (like flash). If something has changed which then causes problems to end users, then that is not good. And it's no good telling people use PCBSD or something else. That's not what we want. We want to use FreeBSD on the desktop. And we are. It's not for everybody and PCBSD is a FreeBSD desktop system specifically created for people that don't want to do all the configuring and troubleshooting that may come with installing a desktop system. PCBSD is FreeBSD (the latest major version -STABLE), with extra effort to make things easier and people claiming responsibility for a working graphical desktop. Don't try and put people off using FreeBSD. It would be much better to help them resolves the problems they are having. As said above, PCBSD is FreeBSD. And for many, it is the best help one can give. One must first learn to walk, if one wants to run. Also, if you _really_ want things to change for *BSD, then you should acquire a group of people that are willing and able to fork Xorg, get rid of it's hal and python dependency, repackage sensibly and do some proper release engineering. Especially the latter is what is causing the problems of late. Either that, or convince the Xorg people to do that. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Mel Flynnmel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.net wrote: On Thursday 30 July 2009 12:50:11 Andrew Gould wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Adam Vande Moreamvandem...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ af.gour...@videotron.ca wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. Try searching deeper within yourself for the issue. -- Adam Vande More I don't think that answer was helpful. It's the right answer though. PJ is not alone in frustration regarding 7.2. For many users, it's hard to tell whether the balance of difficulties lies in bugs or new manual configuration requirements of 7.2. I think much of the frustration lies in our perception of STABLE. When we upgraded from 7.1 (or 7.0), we expected a fairly smooth ride. I had frustrations related to X (hal), mounting drives (hal), printing (cups vs applications), and printing (gimp vs hpijs). Yes, I read the (uncentralized) documentation. I think release CD's should not contain packages anymore, cause everything you describe here, has absolutely nothing to do with FreeBSD 7.2, but with 3rd party software that happened to be packaged at release time. You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not all) of the configuration has been done for you. When using FreeBSD you are expected to understand the handbook, configure things on your own and be able to troubleshoot problems and/or provide the right information in case you need help. If you can't do this, then FreeBSD is not the right tool for you. No harm in that, nobody forces you to use FreeBSD nor will convict you for using an OS that suits you better. -- Mel Your answer is presumptuous. You've already assumed that my problems lie in my inability or lack of willingness to read the documentation and perform configuration. I have been running X on FreeBSD successfully since version 4.0 and have been reading documentation and configuring my system since 2000. I'm not just talking about X, I'm talking about postfix, postgresql, samba, apache with webdav over ssl, etc. I am having far more trouble with a STABLE release than I had with 5.0. After searching many decentralized sources of the sacred documentation (when will the brow beating end?) and reconfiguring my system, I am still having problems. I have been to PC-BSD and back again. I prefer some of my own configurations. If I, after these 8 to 9 years, am having a surprising level of difficulty, I would prefer not to be handily dismissed as a spoon-fed noob. It is easy, and technically correct, to separate the core FreeBSD system from the ports. This I grant you. Beyond the initial clarification, however, it is not the least bit useful. To the world of FreeBSD users, even many of the technically advanced users, FreeBSD would lose much of its usefulness without the ports. So, beyond saying that it's not your problem, what have you accomplished? I'll get off my soap box now. If I sound overly frustrated or sound like I'm ranting, it's because I am accustomed to that sense of control that FreeBSD provides.only, I've lost that feeling on the desktop side. Andrew ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
On Thursday 30 July 2009 18:24:54 Andrew Gould wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Mel Flynnmel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.net wrote: On Thursday 30 July 2009 12:50:11 Andrew Gould wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Adam Vande Moreamvandem...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ af.gour...@videotron.ca wrote: I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it on an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplayer9 with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 does not either, hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configuration file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I can install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have gone through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. Try searching deeper within yourself for the issue. -- Adam Vande More I don't think that answer was helpful. It's the right answer though. PJ is not alone in frustration regarding 7.2. For many users, it's hard to tell whether the balance of difficulties lies in bugs or new manual configuration requirements of 7.2. I think much of the frustration lies in our perception of STABLE. When we upgraded from 7.1 (or 7.0), we expected a fairly smooth ride. I had frustrations related to X (hal), mounting drives (hal), printing (cups vs applications), and printing (gimp vs hpijs). Yes, I read the (uncentralized) documentation. I think release CD's should not contain packages anymore, cause everything you describe here, has absolutely nothing to do with FreeBSD 7.2, but with 3rd party software that happened to be packaged at release time. You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not all) of the configuration has been done for you. The paragraph below is a generalized statement, perhaps I should've used 'one' instead of 'you'. When using FreeBSD you are expected to understand the handbook, configure things on your own and be able to troubleshoot problems and/or provide the right information in case you need help. If you can't do this, then FreeBSD is not the right tool for you. No harm in that, nobody forces you to use FreeBSD nor will convict you for using an OS that suits you better. -- Mel Your answer is presumptuous. You've already assumed that my problems lie in my inability or lack of willingness to read the documentation and perform configuration. I have been running X on FreeBSD successfully since version 4.0 and have been reading documentation and configuring my system since 2000. I'm not just talking about X, I'm talking about postfix, postgresql, samba, apache with webdav over ssl, etc. I am having far more trouble with a STABLE release than I had with 5.0. That is very weird, since most of the community regards the 5.x series as the worst in FreeBSD's history. They were a transitional release to dismiss the GIANT locking in favor of fine grained kernel locks as the main design change. I've personally seen significant improvements in both reliability and performance since 5.x, with respect to kernel and base. I'm seeing absolutely no issues with postfix or postgresql (especially since on 64-bit I can now increase kernel memory to satisfy postgresql's SHM requirements), don't have critical samba installations so can't comment on that and webdav over ssl I don't provide at all. Could you point me to some PR's you've filed? You got me curious now. It is easy, and technically correct, to separate the core FreeBSD system from the ports. This I grant you. Beyond the initial clarification, however, it is not the least bit useful. To the world of FreeBSD users, even many of the technically advanced users, FreeBSD would lose much of its usefulness without the ports. So, beyond saying that it's not your problem, what have you accomplished? See $subject. As far as I'm concerned, 7.2 is the best release so far. The OP makes it sound like FreeBSD is the cause of all his problems, while looking at his posts, some can be attributed to himself and the rest to factors beyond FreeBSD's control, probably including hardware. I'll get off my soap box
