Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 08/04/13 17:22, Gary Aitken wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X4 with the AMD-supplied fan in an ASUS M4A89TD PRO / USB3 motherboard. The system works fine unless I start a cpu-intensive build. If I leave it unattended, after some time the system shuts down abruptly. I'm guessing it's because of excessive cpu temperatures. When doing port builds, or any cpu-intensive job, the temperature of the CPU goes from 45 to 50 in about 30 seconds. I pretty much have to manually suspend and resume the build process to keep it down. If I do that, I avoid the abrupt shutdown. Needless to say, this makes unattended operation a non-starter... Does anyone else have a similar setup they can provide me some related experience on? Thanks, Gary Thanks, all, for the replies and insights. Just a followup: The factory heatsink was basically incapable of keeping the temp down under a heavy-processing port build, and BIOS was shutting down when the temp eventually climbed too high. xmbmon was my friend for tracking this; using ctls and ctlq on the output stream of the build effectively suspended it when it got around 60C so I could wait until the processor cooled down enough to continue. Doing a sync every second or so also postponed the eventual overheating for a while, but eventually it would creep up to the shutdown point. Replacing the heatsink with a gonzo big one seems to have solved the problem. As an aside, this is probably what also made me think some time ago that my SSD was flaky. Things just ran faster so the cpu overheated sooner. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
Hello Gary, Also make sure there is no packed dirt on the heatsink -- I don't know about AMDs, but older Intel heatsinks often tend to accumulate a paper-like layer of dirt on the 'top' of heatsink grid, blocking the airflow. I once had several thermal shutdowns on my home PC before I found that. This does not seem to happen with newer heatsinks so they must have changed the design somehow =) Best wishes Eugene -Original Message- From: Peter Giessel Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 8:23 AM To: Gary Aitken Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor) You can also try shutting down (obviously), then removing the heat sink, put some thermal paste on the processor and reinstall the heat sink. Sometimes there isn't much (any) thermal paste there and the processor can't get the heat into the heat sink. On 2013, Aug 4, at 15:22, Gary Aitken vagab...@blackfoot.net wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 05/08/2013 06:05, Gary Aitken wrote: On 08/04/13 21:39, Frank Leonhardt wrote: This suggests it's not the ACPI in FreeBSD shutting you down, but something on the motherboard. That was my guess as well. big snip As it's probably not FreeBSD you're now asking on the wrong list, and other than cooling advice you're not going to get much (unless there are any closet over-clockers hereabouts). Personally I favour filling the whole case with a pumped fluorocarbon like FC-77 and using a heat exchanger to take the heat away in water to use in a fountain in my hallway ;-) The one sensible suggestion no one has made is to check if a BIOS upgrade doesn't fix it. As to getting FreeBSD to manage it instead of the BIOS: Unfortunately not all chipsets and motherboards are supported. If you want to add support yourself see: /usr/src/sys/dev/acpica If you want to get some idea of what you're up against see: /usr/src/sys/dev/acpica/acpi_quirks I've thought about it a few times but real work always got in the way. Regards, Frank. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
Gary Aitken vagab...@blackfoot.net wrote: Air ducting shouldn't be a problem; I've got the side of the case off... This just might be part of the problem. Air plumbing is not as forgiving as it was in the old days. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:33:55 +0400 Eugene wrote: Hello Gary, Also make sure there is no packed dirt on the heatsink -- I don't know about AMDs, but older Intel heatsinks often tend to accumulate a paper-like layer of dirt on the 'top' of heatsink grid, blocking the airflow. I once had several thermal shutdowns on my home PC before I found that. This does not seem to happen with newer heatsinks so they must have changed the design somehow =) I had a AMD Phenom II X4 and it had exactly that problem. Every few months I had to remove the fan to get a brush into the fins. An idle temperature of 45 C sounds about right for one that's been neglected. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X4 with the AMD-supplied fan in an ASUS M4A89TD PRO / USB3 motherboard. The system works fine unless I start a cpu-intensive build. If I leave it unattended, after some time the system shuts down abruptly. I'm guessing it's because of excessive cpu temperatures. When doing port builds, or any cpu-intensive job, the temperature of the CPU goes from 45 to 50 in about 30 seconds. I pretty much have to manually suspend and resume the build process to keep it down. If I do that, I avoid the abrupt shutdown. Needless to say, this makes unattended operation a non-starter... Does anyone else have a similar setup they can provide me some related experience on? Thanks, Gary On 08/04/13 15:15, Polytropon wrote: On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:48:56 -0600, Gary Aitken wrote: Can anyone suggest a hardware monitor app in the ports tree? I've got an amd64 which may have a temperature issue, but I can't see it to tell... If it's primarily about temperature... amdtemp (kernel module), healthd (system service), mbmon and xmbmon (in the ports collection). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 08/04/13 17:22, Gary Aitken wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X4 with the AMD-supplied fan in an ASUS M4A89TD PRO / USB3 motherboard. The system works fine unless I start a cpu-intensive build. If I leave it unattended, after some time the system shuts down abruptly. I'm guessing it's because of excessive cpu temperatures. When doing port builds, or any cpu-intensive job, the temperature of the CPU goes from 45 to 50 in about 30 seconds. I pretty much have to manually suspend and resume the build process to keep it down. If I do that, I avoid the abrupt shutdown. Needless to say, this makes unattended operation a non-starter... Does anyone else have a similar setup they can provide me some related experience on? BTW, the mobo temp stays down around 32. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 8/4/2013 6:29 PM, Gary Aitken wrote: On 08/04/13 17:22, Gary Aitken wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X4 with the AMD-supplied fan in an ASUS M4A89TD PRO / USB3 motherboard. The system works fine unless I start a cpu-intensive build. If I leave it unattended, after some time the system shuts down abruptly. I'm guessing it's because of excessive cpu temperatures. When doing port builds, or any cpu-intensive job, the temperature of the CPU goes from 45 to 50 in about 30 seconds. I pretty much have to manually suspend and resume the build process to keep it down. If I do that, I avoid the abrupt shutdown. Needless to say, this makes unattended operation a non-starter... Does anyone else have a similar setup they can provide me some related experience on? BTW, the mobo temp stays down around 32. You need a better heatsink and fan for your CPU. If you're idle temp is 45, that's too high. By using powerd, so it's 800MHz, and being idle I'm at around 26C, presumably. It peaks at 45C on parallel builds. In the meantime, you can set the maximum cpu speed, which I recommend powerd for. Here's a tip when shopping, get a big beefy heatsink with a standard fan size, and replace the fan with something beefier. Either that or water cooling. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 05/08/2013 00:29, Gary Aitken wrote: On 08/04/13 17:22, Gary Aitken wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X4 with the AMD-supplied fan in an ASUS M4A89TD PRO / USB3 motherboard. The system works fine unless I start a cpu-intensive build. If I leave it unattended, after some time the system shuts down abruptly. I'm guessing it's because of excessive cpu temperatures. When doing port builds, or any cpu-intensive job, the temperature of the CPU goes from 45 to 50 in about 30 seconds. I pretty much have to manually suspend and resume the build process to keep it down. If I do that, I avoid the abrupt shutdown. Needless to say, this makes unattended operation a non-starter... Does anyone else have a similar setup they can provide me some related experience on? BTW, the mobo temp stays down around 32. Did you get that from the ACPI? Obvious answers are a bigger fan, but a lot of home-build machines don't match the airflow through the case properly - if the CPU fan is blowing pre-warmed air on to the CPU it's not as good as blowing outside air. 50C isn't crazy. Some would say that was barely warm, in fact. Cooler is always better, but you possibly don't need to worry about this. Some CPUs use what they call passive temperature management, and power management, which means they increase or reduce the clock rate depending on the workload and whether it's getting too hot. Faster switching means more heat. So getting hotter when doing a lot of work makes sense and could be expected. (Winchesters really heat up like you wouldn't believe when you move the heads a lot). Did you get anywhere with the ACPI suggestion (you emailed me privately, whether you meant to or not, but didn't mention the outcome). There's a lot there in the ACPI you might want to look in to, including fan control. If I understand it correctly, passive cooling will be engaged by acpi_thermal if the cpufreq drivers are in use, which may not be what you want. Try hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.active=1 to make the fan come on and stay on (tz0 or as appropriate). Here's the fun part. Is your system doing a thermal overload shutdown? it will say so on the console, or in the message log. You didn't say, you just said it shut down. If it's deciding to shut down through over-temperature it does not necesarily mean it's overheating; it could be that it has incorrectly set the shutdown temperatue for your CPU to be far too low - possibly because it doesn't recognise it and is being over-cautious. it might help if you posted the results of sysctl hw.acpi.thermal, but in the mean time look at: hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._HOT hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT (replace tz0 with whatever tz you're worried about). The first is the temperature when the system is supposed to stop what it's doing and suspend to disk (if it can). When it reaches the value on _CRT it'll write a message to the log file and shut down immediately to prevent damage. You can set these to whatever you want, but you have to set hw.acpi.thermal.user_override to 1 first before it will let you. Final trick - make sure you specify the temperatures like sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT=80C Don't specify it as 80.0C (as it will display) and don't forget the C or it will assume degrees Kelvin! Regards, Frank. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 08/04/13 18:30, Frank Leonhardt wrote: On 05/08/2013 00:29, Gary Aitken wrote: On 08/04/13 17:22, Gary Aitken wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. I'm running an AMD Phenom II X4 with the AMD-supplied fan in an ASUS M4A89TD PRO / USB3 motherboard. The system works fine unless I start a cpu-intensive build. If I leave it unattended, after some time the system shuts down abruptly. I'm guessing it's because of excessive cpu temperatures. When doing port builds, or any cpu-intensive job, the temperature of the CPU goes from 45 to 50 in about 30 seconds. I pretty much have to manually suspend and resume the build process to keep it down. If I do that, I avoid the abrupt shutdown. Needless to say, this makes unattended operation a non-starter... Does anyone else have a similar setup they can provide me some related experience on? BTW, the mobo temp stays down around 32. Did you get that from the ACPI? I think so; via amdtemp and xmbmon Obvious answers are a bigger fan, but a lot of home-build machines don't match the airflow through the case properly - if the CPU fan is blowing pre-warmed air on to the CPU it's not as good as blowing outside air. 50C isn't crazy. Some would say that was barely warm, in fact. Cooler is always better, but you possibly don't need to worry about this. Some CPUs use what they call passive temperature management, and power management, which means they increase or reduce the clock rate depending on the workload and whether it's getting too hot. Faster switching means more heat. So getting hotter when doing a lot of work makes sense and could be expected. (Winchesters really heat up like you wouldn't believe when you move the heads a lot). Actually, the 50C figure is just where it shoots to for starters. Mfg specs say 62C max, so I stall the process when it gets around 59 and still climbing steeply. Did you get anywhere with the ACPI suggestion (you emailed me privately, whether you meant to or not, but didn't mention the outcome). There's a lot there in the ACPI you might want to look in to, including fan control. If I understand it correctly, passive cooling will be engaged by acpi_thermal if the cpufreq drivers are in use, which may not be what you want. Try hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.active=1 to make the fan come on and stay on (tz0 or as appropriate). The fan is on and stays on all the time at the moment... Here's the fun part. Is your system doing a thermal overload shutdown? it will say so on the console, or in the message log. You didn't say, you just said it shut down. If it's deciding to shut down through over-temperature it does not necesarily mean it's overheating; it could be that it has incorrectly set the shutdown temperatue for your CPU to be far too low - possibly because it doesn't recognise it and is being over-cautious. There is no indication in messages; the last thing before it shut down the last time was some su's and root logins. it might help if you posted the results of sysctl hw.acpi.thermal, but in the mean time look at: hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._HOT hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT (replace tz0 with whatever tz you're worried about). I don't see any of those; here's what shows up in sysctl -a : hw.acpi.supported_sleep_state: S1 S3 S4 S5 hw.acpi.power_button_state: S5 hw.acpi.sleep_button_state: S1 hw.acpi.lid_switch_state: NONE hw.acpi.standby_state: S1 hw.acpi.suspend_state: S3 hw.acpi.sleep_delay: 1 hw.acpi.s4bios: 0 hw.acpi.verbose: 0 hw.acpi.disable_on_reboot: 0 hw.acpi.handle_reboot: 0 hw.acpi.reset_video: 0 hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest: C1 The first is the temperature when the system is supposed to stop what it's doing and suspend to disk (if it can). When it reaches the value on _CRT it'll write a message to the log file and shut down immediately to prevent damage. You can set these to whatever you want, but you have to set hw.acpi.thermal.user_override to 1 first before it will let you. Final trick - make sure you specify the temperatures like sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT=80C # sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.user_override sysctl: unknown oid 'hw.acpi.thermal.user_override' obviously, something missing... I tried loading coretemp, but no additional hw.acpi variables; and the man page says it is for intel, not amd. Don't specify it as 80.0C (as it will display) and don't forget the C or it will assume degrees Kelvin! Regards, Frank. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 05/08/2013 03:01, Gary Aitken wrote: 50C isn't crazy. Actually, the 50C figure is just where it shoots to for starters. Mfg specs say 62C max, so I stall the process when it gets around 59 and still climbing steeply. The manufactures specs I found when I looked that range of CPUs up was 71C http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/phenom-ii/Pages/phenom-ii-model-number-comparison.aspx But there could be two figures - one for maximum desirable working and one for maximum or else. Did you get anywhere with the ACPI suggestion snip Try hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.active=1 to make the fan come on and stay on (tz0 or as appropriate). The fan is on and stays on all the time at the moment... It it full speed all the time? Here's the fun part. Is your system doing a thermal overload shutdown? snip There is no indication in messages; the last thing before it shut down the last time was some su's and root logins. This suggests it's not the ACPI in FreeBSD shutting you down, but something on the motherboard. it might help if you posted the results of sysctl hw.acpi.thermal, but in the mean time look at: hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._HOT hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT I don't see any of those; here's what shows up in sysctl -a : hw.acpi.supported_sleep_state: S1 S3 S4 S5 hw.acpi.power_button_state: S5 hw.acpi.sleep_button_state: S1 hw.acpi.lid_switch_state: NONE hw.acpi.standby_state: S1 hw.acpi.suspend_state: S3 hw.acpi.sleep_delay: 1 hw.acpi.s4bios: 0 hw.acpi.verbose: 0 hw.acpi.disable_on_reboot: 0 hw.acpi.handle_reboot: 0 hw.acpi.reset_video: 0 hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest: C1 Yep - definitely suggests that the thermal control isn't being done by FreeBSD! Go no further on this route, but check the motherboard/BIOS. I had one machine shut itself down due to a faulty thermistor (raise the threshold/ignore) but it normally happens when the parameters are wrong or the fan has failed. As your fan hasn't failed and the reported temperature is believable my best guesses are that the BIOS is either picking the wrong shutdown temperature for the CPU or your air ducting isn't good enough and it really is getting too hot. Is there a chance that the BIOS pre-dates the CPU and just doesn't know its working parameters, and is therefore playing safe? Incidentally, ACPI is an Intel specification but applies AMD64 CPUs too. The thermal module only works on some chip-sets. FWIW I've found it works on more AMD platforms than it does Intel ones. Regards, Frank. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
On 08/04/13 21:39, Frank Leonhardt wrote: On 05/08/2013 03:01, Gary Aitken wrote: 50C isn't crazy. Actually, the 50C figure is just where it shoots to for starters. Mfg specs say 62C max, so I stall the process when it gets around 59 and still climbing steeply. The manufactures specs I found when I looked that range of CPUs up was 71C http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/phenom-ii/Pages/phenom-ii-model-number-comparison.aspx But there could be two figures - one for maximum desirable working and one for maximum or else. Maybe; although the number I quoted wasn't from AMD, and the two I just found at amd both said 71. Did you get anywhere with the ACPI suggestion snip Try hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.active=1 to make the fan come on and stay on (tz0 or as appropriate). The fan is on and stays on all the time at the moment... It it full speed all the time? I really don't know what full speed on the fan is / feels like / sounds like. It's pretty quiet and there's a noisy old system nearby... xmbmon doesn't show fan speeds, nor does amdtemp provide access to them. Is there some other kernel module for fan speeds? Here's the fun part. Is your system doing a thermal overload shutdown? snip There is no indication in messages; the last thing before it shut down the last time was some su's and root logins. This suggests it's not the ACPI in FreeBSD shutting you down, but something on the motherboard. That was my guess as well. it might help if you posted the results of sysctl hw.acpi.thermal, but in the mean time look at: hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._HOT hw.acpi.thermal.tz0._CRT I don't see any of those; here's what shows up in sysctl -a : hw.acpi.supported_sleep_state: S1 S3 S4 S5 hw.acpi.power_button_state: S5 hw.acpi.sleep_button_state: S1 hw.acpi.lid_switch_state: NONE hw.acpi.standby_state: S1 hw.acpi.suspend_state: S3 hw.acpi.sleep_delay: 1 hw.acpi.s4bios: 0 hw.acpi.verbose: 0 hw.acpi.disable_on_reboot: 0 hw.acpi.handle_reboot: 0 hw.acpi.reset_video: 0 hw.acpi.cpu.cx_lowest: C1 Yep - definitely suggests that the thermal control isn't being done by FreeBSD! ok, but how do I get it in there if I want it? Go no further on this route, but check the motherboard/BIOS. I had one machine shut itself down due to a faulty thermistor (raise the threshold/ignore) but it normally happens when the parameters are wrong or the fan has failed. As your fan hasn't failed and the reported temperature is believable my best guesses are that the BIOS is either picking the wrong shutdown temperature for the CPU or your air ducting isn't good enough and it really is getting too hot. Is there a chance that the BIOS pre-dates the CPU and just doesn't know its working parameters, and is therefore playing safe? I'll check the BIOS next time I reboot. Air ducting shouldn't be a problem; I've got the side of the case off... Incidentally, ACPI is an Intel specification but applies AMD64 CPUs too. The thermal module only works on some chip-sets. FWIW I've found it works on more AMD platforms than it does Intel ones. Regards, Frank. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: AMD Phenom II X4 temperature issues (was Re: hardware monitor)
You can also try shutting down (obviously), then removing the heat sink, put some thermal paste on the processor and reinstall the heat sink. Sometimes there isn't much (any) thermal paste there and the processor can't get the heat into the heat sink. On 2013, Aug 4, at 15:22, Gary Aitken vagab...@blackfoot.net wrote: Ok, so now I see that my cpu temperature shoots up pretty dang fast when a build is going on. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
