Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Well, for what it's worth, I was doing some inverse traceroutes yesterday, and it does appear that Indian ISPs take quite a tortuous route from point to point. A traceroute from one Indian ISP (Net4India, the only one I could even reach, which is already a bit worrisome) went from India to Singapore to Tokyo to San Jose to New York to Paris, with a cumulative delay of 418 ms. It actually nearly went around the world: 1 gw-mum (202.71.136.62) 1.439 ms 0.658 ms 0.820 ms 2 61.95.151.1 (61.95.151.1) 4.370 ms 2.937 ms 3.521 ms 3 61.95.150.34 (61.95.150.34) 3.681 ms 7.069 ms 7.438 ms 4 61.95.150.21 (61.95.150.21) 4.079 ms 6.854 ms 5.343 ms 5 203.101.100.41 (203.101.100.41) 27.754 ms 26.166 ms 27.516 ms 6 61.95.180.18 (61.95.180.18) 25.200 ms 24.482 ms 26.841 ms 7 203.208.146.49 (203.208.146.49) 58.020 ms 58.099 ms 60.815 ms 8 ge-3-0-0.sngc3-cr1.ix.singtel.com (203.208.172.157) 60.545 ms ge-2-0-0.sngc3-cr2.ix.singtel.com (203.208.172.165) 58.701 ms ge-3-0-0.sngc3-cr1.ix.singtel.com (203.208.172.157) 58.281 ms 9 p1-0.sngtp-cr2.ix.singtel.com (203.208.172.129) 56.361 ms 92.429 ms p4-0.sngtp-cr3.ix.singtel.com (203.208.172.125) 60.439 ms 10 so-0-1-2.toknf-cr2.ix.singtel.com (203.208.173.94) 151.952 ms 203.208.172.230 (203.208.172.230) 146.167 ms 219.727 ms 11 p1-0-0.toknf-cr1.ix.singtel.com (203.208.173.21) 155.577 ms 147.855 ms 157.366 ms 12 P3-0.TKYBB1.Tokyo.opentransit.net (193.251.254.29) 157.024 ms 148.086 ms 153.658 ms 13 P1-2.SJOCR1.San-jose.opentransit.net (193.251.242.206) 246.231 ms 247.064 ms 257.645 ms 14 P14-0.NYKCR2.New-york.opentransit.net (193.251.242.1) 330.534 ms 348.584 ms 344.785 ms 15 P1-0.AUVCR2.Aubervilliers.opentransit.net (193.251.241.137) 423.633 ms 422.628 ms 414.842 ms 16 pos9-0.nraub303.Aubervilliers.francetelecom.net (193.251.126.9) 415.860 ms 428.651 ms 417.621 ms 17 pos0-0-0-0.ncidf303.Aubervilliers.francetelecom.net (193.252.103.169) 425.146 ms 431.029 ms 423.044 ms 18 80.10.215.202 (80.10.215.202) 424.796 ms 417.172 ms 418.653 ms A trace from Japan went through Dallas, Atlanta, and Oakhill, but I guess that isn't too bad, although it's hardly a straight line. A trace from Russia was amazingly direct. Spain reached my machine in just 39 ms, via London. But the most impressive was CERN in Switzerland, which reached my machine in eight hops and 8 ms. This doesn't necessarily mean that Indian ISPs route domestic traffic outside the country, but I noticed that happening for other countries that should have better infrastructures, so certainly it would not surprise me. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
On Thursday 14 April 2005 14:35, Subhro wrote: Good idea Brian. But the saddest part is as I have indicated above, Linux rules :-( and FreeBSD is for the heavy duty software professionals. The astonishing fact is that, my ISP BSNL, which is supposed to be the biggest ISP in India does not know how to set up a PPPoE connection on a FBSD box. After I subscribed to my broadband service, which was one month back, tilldate they have not been able to do my setup. They have visited my place more than 10 times and tried to installed RasPPPoE for Linux That's actually quite impressive. Most UK ISPs wont even touch Linux. If I'd tried to ask my ISP to setup FreeBSD, I'd have to go through an Indian call-centre where I'd get asked which versions of Windows and Internet Explorer I'm using. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
RW writes: Most UK ISPs wont even touch Linux. If I'd tried to ask my ISP to setup FreeBSD, I'd have to go through an Indian call-centre where I'd get asked which versions of Windows and Internet Explorer I'm using. Why do you need an ISP's help to set up FreeBSD, anyway? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
On Saturday 16 April 2005 01:52, Anthony Atkielski wrote: RW writes: Most UK ISPs wont even touch Linux. If I'd tried to ask my ISP to setup FreeBSD, I'd have to go through an Indian call-centre where I'd get asked which versions of Windows and Internet Explorer I'm using. Why do you need an ISP's help to set up FreeBSD, anyway? I don't, hence if I tried, and not when I tried. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: RW writes: Most UK ISPs wont even touch Linux. If I'd tried to ask my ISP to setup FreeBSD, I'd have to go through an Indian call-centre where I'd get asked which versions of Windows and Internet Explorer I'm using. Why do you need an ISP's help to set up FreeBSD, anyway? You got it wrong. *I* being old hands at FreeBSD, don't require their help. But if I install FBSD on my little sisters PC, she would be requiring some help. If I am around, thats not a problem. But if I am not, the first place she would go to is the ISP, which i very much expected. But unfortunately they are completely clueless. Best Regards S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Subhro writes: You got it wrong. *I* being old hands at FreeBSD, don't require their help. But if I install FBSD on my little sisters PC, she would be requiring some help. If I am around, thats not a problem. But if I am not, the first place she would go to is the ISP, which i very much expected. But unfortunately they are completely clueless. One cannot expect ISPs to know about every operating system available. It's hard enough just to support Windows, the most popular desktop OS around. Some companies might have the resources to support Macs, but not many. Hardly anyone can afford to support anything else. On the other hand, if ISPs didn't try so hard to hide the interfaces with their service and didn't try to personalize the connections so much, anyone would be able to connect to any ISP with any OS. But ISPs seem loath to admit that their basic services are highly interchangeable, and so they create an unnecessary support load for themselves by trying to be an exception to every rule. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Hi, I recommended FreeBSD to a friend of mine in India and discovered to my great astonishment that there's no mirror site in India, at least none is listed on the official FreeBSD mirror site: http://www.freebsd.org/.../handbook/mirrors-ftp.html I would have expected several mirror sites there, with India becoming one the software development centers in the world. Is nobody or no institute in India interested in setting up a FreeBSD mirror site? Or is (Free)BSD an unknown/unused OS in India. For comparison: China has 2 mirrors, Taiwan has 16, Korea 2, Japan 9, Indonesia 1 and HongKong 1. India has none! Regards, Rob. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Rob wrote: Hi, I recommended FreeBSD to a friend of mine in India and discovered to my great astonishment that there's no mirror site in India, at least none is listed on the official FreeBSD mirror site: Yeh you are right. http://www.freebsd.org/.../handbook/mirrors-ftp.html I would have expected several mirror sites there, with India becoming one the software development centers in the world. Well the main issue is, bandwidth is very very costly in India. The amount of bandwidth that would cost 40 USD in US would cost around 350 USD in India. Is nobody or no institute in India interested in setting up a FreeBSD mirror site? Or is (Free)BSD an unknown/unused OS in India. FreeBSD is definitely not used as much as Linux as far as Indian scenario is concerned. And I am really sorry to say, maximum boxes are ruled by windows, that too pirated editions :-( For comparison: China has 2 mirrors, Taiwan has 16, Korea 2, Japan 9, Indonesia 1 and HongKong 1. India has none! I would speak to my ISP and try to convince them to set up a mirror here. Lets see what works out. Regards S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Subhro writes: Well the main issue is, bandwidth is very very costly in India. The amount of bandwidth that would cost 40 USD in US would cost around 350 USD in India. All the more reason to have a mirror in India. The shorter the distance to cover, the faster the transfer is likely to be, and the lower the cost. If there are people in India who want to download FreeBSD, then an Indian mirror is a very good idea, _especially_ if bandwidth is expensive. Additionally, a mirror site in India could burn CDs locally and hand them out, subject to licensing restrictions. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Another suggestion would be talk to a university or other large school that may be able to afford the bandwidth, or get it at a discounted rate. Heck, it's added publicity for them and they are helping the open source community. --Brian On 4/14/05, Subhro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob wrote: Hi, I recommended FreeBSD to a friend of mine in India and discovered to my great astonishment that there's no mirror site in India, at least none is listed on the official FreeBSD mirror site: Yeh you are right. http://www.freebsd.org/.../handbook/mirrors-ftp.html I would have expected several mirror sites there, with India becoming one the software development centers in the world. Well the main issue is, bandwidth is very very costly in India. The amount of bandwidth that would cost 40 USD in US would cost around 350 USD in India. Is nobody or no institute in India interested in setting up a FreeBSD mirror site? Or is (Free)BSD an unknown/unused OS in India. FreeBSD is definitely not used as much as Linux as far as Indian scenario is concerned. And I am really sorry to say, maximum boxes are ruled by windows, that too pirated editions :-( For comparison: China has 2 mirrors, Taiwan has 16, Korea 2, Japan 9, Indonesia 1 and HongKong 1. India has none! I would speak to my ISP and try to convince them to set up a mirror here. Lets see what works out. Regards S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: All the more reason to have a mirror in India. The shorter the distance to cover, the faster the transfer is likely to be, This is definitely technically true but not practially as far as India is concern. The average bandwidth available to individual is 56Kbps (actual, not the rated). A few lucky souls DO have access to high speed links in the range of ~1Mbps but that is truly not the mass. So as far as transfer rate is concerned, the bottleneck is definitely not the physical location of the source. and the lower the cost. This also is not applicable is here. Having spent quite some time in US, I am well aware of the fact that for many ISPs, data tranferred within the local uplink is free. However this is not the case here. Firstly as most users access internet on dialup, they do not have any data restrictions. The people who *do* have a fat downlink would pay equally for data transferred from an Indian server or from an American Server. Additionally, a mirror site in India could burn CDs locally and hand them out, subject to licensing restrictions. This is really a wonderful idea. It never struck to me. Even without going in for a online mirror, I can take initiative and execute this. Thanks Anthony. I would also request the concerned person to kindly let me know how I can get listed on the FreeBSD Handbook. Best Regards, S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Brian McCann wrote: Another suggestion would be talk to a university or other large school that may be able to afford the bandwidth, or get it at a discounted rate. Heck, it's added publicity for them and they are helping the open source community. Good idea Brian. But the saddest part is as I have indicated above, Linux rules :-( and FreeBSD is for the heavy duty software professionals. The astonishing fact is that, my ISP BSNL, which is supposed to be the biggest ISP in India does not know how to set up a PPPoE connection on a FBSD box. After I subscribed to my broadband service, which was one month back, tilldate they have not been able to do my setup. They have visited my place more than 10 times and tried to installed RasPPPoE for Linux and kept wondering why it was complaining about unknown ELF type (I didnt have the compatibility layer loaded). I did the setup myself but till date the issue remains open in their problem database :-(. I don't understand why it works out this way but my assumption is, you dont get FreeBSD softwares as easily as Linux. The main sources for software in India is either markets (read pirates) or CDs accompanying computer magazines. And this is a fact that thoes magazines never speak of FreeBSD. Personally I find it much more easier to install FreeBSD than to install any popular public version of Linux like Red Hat, Fedora, Mandrake But the FreeBSD installer is definitely not as appealing as the Mandrake installer. For a newbie, pretty looking toolbars with nothing underneath is always more appealing than a text mode installer with loads of information in it. Another example for most modern distribution like SuSe or Fedora is whenever some application dies when it is not supposed to, it tries sending out bug reports and and taking preventive measures. I understand we can simply make a script to watch over the logs and do these neat tricks. But out of the box most applicatipons dont do that. This thing also turns off the newcomer. Best Regards, S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
At 08:20 4/14/2005, Subhro, wrote: Anthony Atkielski wrote: All the more reason to have a mirror in India. The shorter the distance to cover, the faster the transfer is likely to be, This is definitely technically true but not practially as far as India is concern. The average bandwidth available to individual is 56Kbps (actual, not the rated). A few lucky souls DO have access to high speed links in the range of ~1Mbps but that is truly not the mass. So as far as transfer rate is concerned, the bottleneck is definitely not the physical location of the source. and the lower the cost. This also is not applicable is here. Having spent quite some time in US, I am well aware of the fact that for many ISPs, data tranferred within the local uplink is free. However this is not the case here. Firstly as most users access internet on dialup, they do not have any data restrictions. Hmmm. Does 'they do not have any data restrictions' mean that the aren't charged by the megabyte? If so, there is a Windows program called FreeDownloadManager that can *reliably* download huge files. In the case of ISOs, it could take many days on dialup, but you can start or stop, regulate download speed, etc.: http://www.FreeDownloadManager.org/features.htm The people who *do* have a fat downlink would pay equally for data transferred from an Indian server or from an American Server. Additionally, a mirror site in India could burn CDs locally and hand them out, subject to licensing restrictions. This is really a wonderful idea. It never struck to me. Even without going in for a online mirror, I can take initiative and execute this. Thanks Anthony. I would also request the concerned person to kindly let me know how I can get listed on the FreeBSD Handbook. Best Regards, S. Start Here to Find It Fast! - http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/ $8.77 Domain Names - http://domains.us-webmasters.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 09:13:21AM -0500, W. D. wrote: At 08:20 4/14/2005, Subhro, wrote: Anthony Atkielski wrote: All the more reason to have a mirror in India. The shorter the distance to cover, the faster the transfer is likely to be, This is definitely technically true but not practially as far as India is concern. The average bandwidth available to individual is 56Kbps (actual, not the rated). A few lucky souls DO have access to high speed links in the range of ~1Mbps but that is truly not the mass. So as far as transfer rate is concerned, the bottleneck is definitely not the physical location of the source. and the lower the cost. This also is not applicable is here. Having spent quite some time in US, I am well aware of the fact that for many ISPs, data tranferred within the local uplink is free. However this is not the case here. Firstly as most users access internet on dialup, they do not have any data restrictions. Hmmm. Does 'they do not have any data restrictions' mean that the aren't charged by the megabyte? If so, there is a Windows program called FreeDownloadManager that can *reliably* download huge files. In the case of ISOs, it could take many days on dialup, but you can start or stop, regulate download speed, etc.: http://www.FreeDownloadManager.org/features.htm I would assume that like most other countries they are charged per minute for the dialup connection (by the phone company, not the ISP) even if they don't get charged per megabyte. Downloading large files will still be expensive then. -- Insert your favourite quote here. Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Erik Trulsson wrote: I would assume that like most other countries they are charged per minute for the dialup connection (by the phone company, not the ISP) even if they don't get charged per megabyte. Downloading large files will still be expensive then. We are changed per minute both by the Carrier company and the ISP. Regards S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Subhro wrote: Erik Trulsson wrote: I would assume that like most other countries they are charged per minute for the dialup connection (by the phone company, not the ISP) even if they don't get charged per megabyte. Downloading large files will still be expensive then. We are changed per minute both by the Carrier company and the ISP. I guess this is typical for home connections in India. But I suppose that big research institutes and universities have a better, more economic internet connection. I can't imagine that the big institutes in Kolkata, Chennai, Bengalore, Mumbai etc. are connected via 56 kb/s modems and pay exorbitant amounts for internet use Of course, a Linux and/or BSD mirror should be hosted by such a research institute, most probably by the computer science departement. Or is all that different in India? Rob. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Rob wrote: I guess this is typical for home connections in India. True, bust most Universities have things like 5 128K links tagged together. Put this down plain and simple, bandwidth is really really scarce in India. Of course, a Linux and/or BSD mirror should be hosted by such a research institute, most probably by the computer science departement. Right. But most Universities are simply not interested and tag BSD as not for the masses OS. In the Indian Scenario, a handful of *BSD users are considered Wizards and non Microsoft OS implies Linux. Best Regards, S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Rob writes: But I suppose that big research institutes and universities have a better, more economic internet connection. I can't imagine that the big institutes in Kolkata, Chennai, Bengalore, Mumbai etc. are connected via 56 kb/s modems and pay exorbitant amounts for internet use No ... but (based on comments made here and reading elsewhere) thye may be paying proportionally a _lot_ more for that T-1 or T-3, never mind an OC-whatever. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Robert Huff wrote: Rob writes: better, more economic internet connection. I can't imagine that the big institutes in Kolkata, Chennai, Bengalore, Mumbai etc. are connected via 56 kb/s modems and pay exorbitant amounts for internet use No ... but (based on comments made here and reading elsewhere) thye may be paying proportionally a _lot_ more for that T-1 or T-3, never mind an OC-whatever. Precisely thats my point. Regards S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
At 2005-04-14T14:35:49+02:00, Anthony Atkielski wrote: All the more reason to have a mirror in India. The shorter the distance to cover, the faster the transfer is likely to be, and the lower the cost. Traffic between two hosts located in India is usually routed through US or European networks. For example, here is the output of `traceroute' from a host in Allahabad in the North, to Bombay in the West of India. [unicorn:/usr/home/raghu]% traceroute -n www.tifr.res.in traceroute to tifrweb.tifr.res.in (158.144.1.39), ... 1 192.168.10.1 0.685 ms 0.508 ms 0.257 ms 2 210.212.50.1 1.270 ms 1.103 ms 1.054 ms 3 61.0.97.46 3.132 ms 3.075 ms 3.147 ms 4 61.0.233.30 234.942 ms 245.254 ms 230.948 ms 5 61.0.229.62 384.842 ms 484.036 ms 433.154 ms 6 203.197.28.86 739.762 ms 612.132 ms 650.285 ms 7 202.54.2.26 518.586 ms 411.083 ms 434.881 ms 8 208.192.183.149 551.193 ms 567.015 ms 487.806 ms ... 20 202.84.154.6 874.091 ms 885.075 ms 1082.661 ms 21 202.84.154.130 877.544 ms 738.263 ms 787.024 ms 22 134.159.128.42 547.869 ms 564.489 ms 548.837 ms 23 219.64.254.145 755.060 ms 808.728 ms 893.595 ms ... A `whois' lookup for 208.192.183.149, says that the address belongs to UUNET Technologies, Inc., VA, US. The address 134.159.128.42 belongs to Reach Networks HK Ltd, Hong Kong. As I understand it, this means that traffic from Allahabad goes to the US, and then to Hong Kong, before it reaches Bombay. Therefore, the geographical proximity of two hosts within India does not imply their proximity on the Internet. In addition to such routing troubles, most Indian sites suffer from severe bandwidth paucity. A few years ago, an Indian research institute set up a mirror of the electronic preprint repository `arXiv.org'. However, because of routing anomalies --- and because the Indian site does not have as much bandwidth as the master `arXiv.org' site in the US --- many users find that it is faster to download papers from the master site, than from the Indian mirror. I think that would be the case also with a FreeBSD mirror in India. This could be one reason why there are no such mirrors. Another could be the fact that very few Indians use UNIX, or its clones --- and those who do mostly use GNU/Linux. Additionally, a mirror site in India could burn CDs locally and hand them out There are a few Indian shops which do sell inexpensive FreeBSD and GNU/Linux CD-ROMs --- costing about USD 4.00 for three CDs. Raghavendra. -- N. Raghavendra [EMAIL PROTECTED] | See mail headers for contact Harish-Chandra Research Institute | and OpenPGP details. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Subhro writes: Good idea Brian. But the saddest part is as I have indicated above, Linux rules :-( and FreeBSD is for the heavy duty software professionals. Starting burning some CDs and handing them out, and maybe that will change (eventually). FreeBSD is real UN*X (except for the trademark), and it should whip Linux as a server without any difficulty. So if there are organizations in India that want to set up servers at little or no cost, FreeBSD is their wish come true. And FreeBSD skills are transferable to other UNIX operating systems more directly than Linux skills, which are becoming increasingly specific to that community. The main sources for software in India is either markets (read pirates) or CDs accompanying computer magazines. And this is a fact that thoes magazines never speak of FreeBSD. Odd that they so readily deal in pirated software, but they so rarely speak of software that is already free to begin with! Personally I find it much more easier to install FreeBSD than to install any popular public version of Linux like Red Hat, Fedora, Mandrake But the FreeBSD installer is definitely not as appealing as the Mandrake installer. For a newbie, pretty looking toolbars with nothing underneath is always more appealing than a text mode installer with loads of information in it. Skip the newbies and introduce IT professionals to FreeBSD. Tell your ISP about it--I daresay they could find a great many uses for a reliable UN*X server, especially when the software is free. It's got to be better than Red Hat, which is what they apparently run now. Another example for most modern distribution like SuSe or Fedora is whenever some application dies when it is not supposed to, it tries sending out bug reports and and taking preventive measures. I understand we can simply make a script to watch over the logs and do these neat tricks. But out of the box most applicatipons dont do that. This thing also turns off the newcomer. Most of the 35,481,847 Linux distributions available this week target the desktop, although none of them can hold a candle Windows in this respect. They are thus solutions looking for problems, since anyone who wants a real desktop will run Windows, and since Linux fans often seem unable to see their favorite distributions in a serious server role. So you get all the junk one might expect with a wannabe Windows OS, and none of the basic simplicity you need with a server. If you want a desktop --- install Windows (or a Mac). If you want a server --- install FreeBSD. If you want religion --- install Linux. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Subhro writes: We are changed per minute both by the Carrier company and the ISP. Apparently Indian companies are working so hard to help China dominate the IT world. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
N. Raghavendra wrote: At 2005-04-14T14:35:49+02:00, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Traffic between two hosts located in India is usually routed through US or European networks. I beg to differ. Tracing route to in.beta.vip.in.yahoo.com [202.43.219.47] over a maximum of 30 hops: 116 ms18 ms22 ms 59.93.160.1 239 ms39 ms42 ms 218.248.253.89 344 ms38 ms40 ms 218.248.249.33 438 ms40 ms45 ms 218.248.255.5 559 ms48 ms42 ms 218.248.255.6 652 ms55 ms69 ms 203.200.145.202 7 105 ms 103 ms 102 ms ekm-mum-2nd-stm1.Bbone.vsnl.net.in [202.54.2.202 ] 893 ms 100 ms91 ms lvsb-vsb-IDC-1st-stm1.Bbone.vsnl.net.in [202.54. 2.10] 992 ms88 ms90 ms 203.199.112.46.static.vsnl.net.in [203.199.112.4 6] 10 102 ms91 ms89 ms fe0-1.sar1.in.yahoo.com [203.199.124.154] 1195 ms95 ms 104 ms in.beta.vip.in.yahoo.com [202.43.219.47] Trace complete. This completely remains inside India. Unless you purposefully introduce some US/EU intervention in the routing tables, it works withut problems. I think that would be the case also with a FreeBSD mirror in India. This could be one reason why there are no such mirrors. Another could be the fact that very few Indians use UNIX, or its clones --- and those who do mostly use GNU/Linux. Yeh the second one is a point. I already pointed to it. There are a few Indian shops which do sell inexpensive FreeBSD and GNU/Linux CD-ROMs --- costing about USD 4.00 for three CDs. I didnt find any. :-( However as I pointed earlier I am very happy to burn the CDs and sip them out for a nominal charge. Regards S. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Subhro writes: True, bust most Universities have things like 5 128K links tagged together. Put this down plain and simple, bandwidth is really really scarce in India. That has to change, and soon. There's no cure for a shortage of bandwidth except more bandwidth. Lay the fiber and light it. Right. But most Universities are simply not interested and tag BSD as not for the masses OS. THey are right. No version of UNIX is for the masses, nor is Linux. But for servers, UNIX has an edge in many situations (not so much Linux). For the masses, Windows is best; if Windows is not available, then I suppose Linux would be better than nothing (but not much better). In the Indian Scenario, a handful of *BSD users are considered Wizards and non Microsoft OS implies Linux. I thought India was supposed to be speeding ahead in IT; it doesn't sound like it's even in the running from what you're saying. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
N. Raghavendra writes: Traffic between two hosts located in India is usually routed through US or European networks. Why?? A `whois' lookup for 208.192.183.149, says that the address belongs to UUNET Technologies, Inc., VA, US. The address 134.159.128.42 belongs to Reach Networks HK Ltd, Hong Kong. As I understand it, this means that traffic from Allahabad goes to the US, and then to Hong Kong, before it reaches Bombay. The IT equivalent of the proverbial slow boat to China. At least most of the world's secret services get a peak at all Indian traffic, I guess. Therefore, the geographical proximity of two hosts within India does not imply their proximity on the Internet. Is digging a ditch and laying fiber between them out of the question? In addition to such routing troubles, most Indian sites suffer from severe bandwidth paucity. Because it doesn't exist, or because telecoms and ISPs are gouging them with their pricing? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Anthony Atkielski writes: That has to change, and soon. There's no cure for a shortage of bandwidth except more bandwidth. Lay the fiber and light it. As I understand it, in India it's Not That Simple. Operations which take eight weeks and three signatures in the U. S. or U. K. can take years and dozens of signatures ... and if you run into a corrupt official, good luck. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
Robert Huff writes: As I understand it, in India it's Not That Simple. Operations which take eight weeks and three signatures in the U. S. or U. K. can take years and dozens of signatures ... and if you run into a corrupt official, good luck. If that's true, the only losers are the Indians. And their main competitor, the sleeping giant to the east, isn't going to wait for them to get their act together. But I suppose that has nothing to do with FreeBSD. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
At 2005-04-14T23:16:17+05:30, Subhro wrote: There are a few Indian shops which do sell inexpensive FreeBSD and GNU/Linux CD-ROMs --- costing about USD 4.00 for three CDs. I didnt find any. See http://www.roseindia.net/linux/free_bsd_5_3.shtml Raghavendra. -- N. Raghavendra [EMAIL PROTECTED] | See mail headers for contact Harish-Chandra Research Institute | and OpenPGP details. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: India had no FreeBSD mirror sites ?!?
(B Therefore, the geographical proximity of two hosts within India does (B not imply their proximity on the Internet. (B (B Is digging a ditch and laying fiber between them out of the question? (B (BQuite possibly so. Think about the population density. (B (BDigging a ditch any real distance is liable to require a lot of (Bpolitical involvement. A one kilometer ditch is liable to cross the land (Bof close to a thousand people, more, perhaps, if there are large (Bapartments or multiple-owner complexes in the path. (B (BAnyway, you can't just assume things are the same all over. (B (B (B-- (BJoel Rees [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bdigitcom, inc. $B3t<02q
