Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Wednesday 26 August 2009 12:50:00 Michiel Overtoom wrote: I never understood the need for transparent windows. If you're working in a window you want to concentrate on its contents, not on stuff that's happening beneath it. It breaks the flow. I think it's indicative of the ritalin-generation of teens who can't concentrate for two minutes and need to constantly tweet about nonsense. Geez, I'm getting old ;-) I felt the same way initially. However, I'm not old enough yet, to remember I can get used to things and now that I have, it doesn't bother me and at times it's convenient (f.e. when repositioning windows). Still, it's easy to turn off. I'm also using the Flip Switch to alt-tab windows, which is much more pleasant then having to read sometimes missing window titles/icons in a list. I can definitely do without Kontact's aggregation of message lists, other then that, after tweaking it, can't say that I miss KDE 3, even though I had the initial shocker you experienced. I also did a fair amount of tweaking after the first KDE3 install and I can't honestly remember if I took longer then or now. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Friday 07 August 2009 16:12:03 Andrew Gould wrote: Is there an increase in usability/benefit to match the increase in resource consumption? As I see it, KDE4 fell in the Vista trap. I tried KDE4 and was showered with eye candy effects, some of which couldn't even be disabled. Also, quite a few features I used in KDE3 were missing from KDE4. I never understood the need for transparent windows. If you're working in a window you want to concentrate on its contents, not on stuff that's happening beneath it. It breaks the flow. I think it's indicative of the ritalin-generation of teens who can't concentrate for two minutes and need to constantly tweet about nonsense. Geez, I'm getting old ;-) In my time, we didn't have color screens. We had machine code on the bare metal, and a USER PORT to hook up your hardware. Greetings, -- The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. - Vinod Valloppillil http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween4.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On August 26, 2009 06:50:00 am Michiel Overtoom wrote: On Friday 07 August 2009 16:12:03 Andrew Gould wrote: Is there an increase in usability/benefit to match the increase in resource consumption? As I see it, KDE4 fell in the Vista trap. I tried KDE4 and was showered with eye candy effects, some of which couldn't even be disabled. Also, quite a few features I used in KDE3 were missing from KDE4. I never understood the need for transparent windows. If you're working in a window you want to concentrate on its contents, not on stuff that's happening beneath it. It breaks the flow. I think it's indicative of the ritalin-generation of teens who can't concentrate for two minutes and need to constantly tweet about nonsense. Geez, I'm getting old ;-) In my time, we didn't have color screens. We had machine code on the bare metal, and a USER PORT to hook up your hardware. Greetings, The need for semi-transparent windows is a big question in my mind too. I suspect it has been implemented because it is possible, and initially looks 'cool'. But it seems to be a distraction from actually doing useful work. Much better to turn it off, IMHO. -- Mike Jeays http://www.jeays.ca http://www.rotarycpmm.ca ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu 06 Aug 2009 at 22:49:09 PDT Gary Kline wrote: On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 02:37:26AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:15:18 -0500, Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. Terminology: the directory (is not a folder, and not a directory folder). FreeBSD has directories, not folders. :-) Absolutely! I don't want to sound like *that* much of a unix-bigot; but here, i guess i am. Isn't the word directory part of graphy theory? Or is it just KR theory :-) I'd always assumed it was a term borrowed from the telephone system that was Bell Labs main concern. The list mapping names to telephone numbers (or vice versa) was called a directory, as in directory assistance. In Unix, the names are filenames and the numbers are inodes. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:15:18 -0500 Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Paul Schmehlpschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. This may imply that KDE3 and KDE4 can coexist. As always, YMMV. Best of luck, Andrew Be careful, I had to remove KDE4 and rebuild KDE3 after a KDE4 update screwed over KDE3. Ultimately that got me to move over to Xfce4 as I do not like KDE4 at all. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:33:38 -0700 Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote: i'd be interested in Paul's question. it may be that kde3 is sopping up wy to much disc space. only have 6.5g left KDE4 makes KDE3 look like Fluxbox. I can't remember the exact figures on /usr, but I maintain my ccache by timestamp, and it rose from 3.2GB to 7.9GB after adding KDE4. And that 3.2GB figure included kde3 (including KOffice), xfce, fluxbox, windowmaker, icewm and numerous gui and server applications. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:23 AM, RWrwmailli...@googlemail.com wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:33:38 -0700 Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote: i'd be interested in Paul's question. it may be that kde3 is sopping up wy to much disc space. only have 6.5g left KDE4 makes KDE3 look like Fluxbox. I can't remember the exact figures on /usr, but I maintain my ccache by timestamp, and it rose from 3.2GB to 7.9GB after adding KDE4. And that 3.2GB figure included kde3 (including KOffice), xfce, fluxbox, windowmaker, icewm and numerous gui and server applications. Is there an increase in usability/benefit to match the increase in resource consumption? (Please forgive me - I know that's a horribly subjective question.) Thanks, Andrew ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:53:05 -0500 Paul Schmehl pschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: --On August 6, 2009 7:15:18 PM -0500 Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. This may imply that KDE3 and KDE4 can coexist. As always, YMMV. I was looking for something a little more definitive, like I upgraded like this, and here's the problems I ran into. I don't want to run KDE3 and KDE4 side by side. I want to migrate from the former to the latter. There was some speculation that stability problems are exacerbated by having both versions, so it's sensible to remove kde3. AFAIK there is no automatic migration, it's like installing a different desktop. I know you can copy wallet files across, and you can probably carry some other data over, but for the most part it isn't worth it. I'd suggest you back-up or rename your .kde and .kderc to keep them safe. KDE4 is very much the new coke of desktops. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:12:03 -0500 Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: Is there an increase in usability/benefit to match the increase in resource consumption? (Please forgive me - I know that's a horribly subjective question.) IMO it's less usable in terms of ergonomics, and they are still talking about catching-up with kde3 in terms of features and configurability. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
Le Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:53:05 -0500, Paul Schmehl pschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com a écrit : I don't want to run KDE3 and KDE4 side by side. I want to migrate from the former to the latter. K3B needs kde3 and amarok2 is not yet ready for KDE 4.3. I still use amarok 1.4. There is no problem to use kde3 and kde4. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
--On Friday, August 07, 2009 00:27:00 -0500 Kent Stewart kstew...@owt.com wrote: On Thursday 06 August 2009 05:53:05 pm Paul Schmehl wrote: --On August 6, 2009 7:15:18 PM -0500 Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Paul Schmehlpschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. This may imply that KDE3 and KDE4 can coexist. As always, YMMV. I was looking for something a little more definitive, like I upgraded like this, and here's the problems I ran into. I don't want to run KDE3 and KDE4 side by side. I want to migrate from the former to the latter. There are features that haven't made it to kde4 such as koffice. I added OpenOffice but that can be a long compile. One of my favorite sites crashes konqueror, which wasn't a problem on kde3. I left my slower machine, which I use for e-mail, and web browsing running kde3 and play with kde4 on my system that can do a portupgrade -pfR kde4 in 7 hours and build OO in less than 2 hours. It is running kde-4.3 now and it has been recursively rebuilt. The browser crash is still there. I can use the packages of common ports to update the slower machine. They are on a 4-port kvm and it is too easy to simply use the machine that works the best. Thanks, Kent. That's very useful information. I'm going to stick with KDE3 a while longer. This is my primary workstation, so I don't want to be chasing demons all day. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead. Thomas Jefferson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thursday 06 August 2009 19:26:20 Paul Schmehl wrote: --On August 6, 2009 9:29:30 PM -0500 Mel Flynn mel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.net wrote: On Thursday 06 August 2009 15:21:14 Paul Schmehl wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? Wait a week I'd say. KDE 4.3.0 has hit the ports tree rather fast to be in time for the ports freeze and a lot of stuff is being ironed out. In fact, probably the best time is after the ports freeze is over. But I expect the big gotchas to be gone in a few days. -- Thanks, Mel. I'll wait. Will there be instructions in /usr/ports/UPDATING after the freeze? (There's nothing in there now about upgrading.) The 20090804 entries deal with KDE4 (indirectly). Some people have experience problems having KDE3 (in particular qt33) around, but these are build problems. If one makes packages on a clean machine, then you shouldn't be affected and a fix to address that has already been committed. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 02:23:20PM +0100, RW wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:33:38 -0700 Gary Kline kl...@thought.org wrote: i'd be interested in Paul's question. it may be that kde3 is sopping up wy to much disc space. only have 6.5g left KDE4 makes KDE3 look like Fluxbox. I can't remember the exact figures on /usr, but I maintain my ccache by timestamp, and it rose from 3.2GB to 7.9GB after adding KDE4. And that 3.2GB figure included kde3 (including KOffice), xfce, fluxbox, windowmaker, icewm and numerous gui and server applications. Ah, thanks for the clue! Good that I only use the tts stuff. i also like AmaroK; not sure what that's part of, tho. Other than OOo and the GUI browsers, I'm a CLI type. gary PS: I would go back to CTWM, but I lost my .ctwmrc and it was huge... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 5.67a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
KDE3 -- KDE4
Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead. Thomas Jefferson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Paul Schmehlpschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. This may imply that KDE3 and KDE4 can coexist. As always, YMMV. Best of luck, Andrew ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:15:18 -0500, Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. Terminology: the directory (is not a folder, and not a directory folder). FreeBSD has directories, not folders. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 11:21:14PM +, Paul Schmehl wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? i have a me-too here. i don't use very many of the KDE things. mostly the text-to-speech tools. last time things in kde4 were broken i think the kttsd failed. i'd be interested in Paul's question. it may be that kde3 is sopping up wy to much disc space. only have 6.5g left gary -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead. Thomas Jefferson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 5.67a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
--On August 6, 2009 7:15:18 PM -0500 Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Paul Schmehlpschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. This may imply that KDE3 and KDE4 can coexist. As always, YMMV. I was looking for something a little more definitive, like I upgraded like this, and here's the problems I ran into. I don't want to run KDE3 and KDE4 side by side. I want to migrate from the former to the latter. Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thursday 06 August 2009 15:21:14 Paul Schmehl wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? Wait a week I'd say. KDE 4.3.0 has hit the ports tree rather fast to be in time for the ports freeze and a lot of stuff is being ironed out. In fact, probably the best time is after the ports freeze is over. But I expect the big gotchas to be gone in a few days. -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Polytroponfree...@edvax.de wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:15:18 -0500, Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. Terminology: the directory (is not a folder, and not a directory folder). FreeBSD has directories, not folders. :-) -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... Okay. I'm trainable. ;-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
--On August 6, 2009 9:29:30 PM -0500 Mel Flynn mel.flynn+fbsd.questi...@mailing.thruhere.net wrote: On Thursday 06 August 2009 15:21:14 Paul Schmehl wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? Wait a week I'd say. KDE 4.3.0 has hit the ports tree rather fast to be in time for the ports freeze and a lot of stuff is being ironed out. In fact, probably the best time is after the ports freeze is over. But I expect the big gotchas to be gone in a few days. -- Thanks, Mel. I'll wait. Will there be instructions in /usr/ports/UPDATING after the freeze? (There's nothing in there now about upgrading.) Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ** WARNING: Check the headers before replying ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Thursday 06 August 2009 05:53:05 pm Paul Schmehl wrote: --On August 6, 2009 7:15:18 PM -0500 Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Paul Schmehlpschmehl_li...@tx.rr.com wrote: Can someone who has already done this upgrade suggest the best way to go about it? Do I need to completely uninstall kde3 first? Is there an upgrade path that's not fraught with gotchas? -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. This may imply that KDE3 and KDE4 can coexist. As always, YMMV. I was looking for something a little more definitive, like I upgraded like this, and here's the problems I ran into. I don't want to run KDE3 and KDE4 side by side. I want to migrate from the former to the latter. There are features that haven't made it to kde4 such as koffice. I added OpenOffice but that can be a long compile. One of my favorite sites crashes konqueror, which wasn't a problem on kde3. I left my slower machine, which I use for e-mail, and web browsing running kde3 and play with kde4 on my system that can do a portupgrade -pfR kde4 in 7 hours and build OO in less than 2 hours. It is running kde-4.3 now and it has been recursively rebuilt. The browser crash is still there. I can use the packages of common ports to update the slower machine. They are on a 4-port kvm and it is too easy to simply use the machine that works the best. Kent -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: KDE3 -- KDE4
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 02:37:26AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:15:18 -0500, Andrew Gould andrewlylego...@gmail.com wrote: Unless things have changed very recently, KDE4 is in its own directory folder. Terminology: the directory (is not a folder, and not a directory folder). FreeBSD has directories, not folders. :-) Absolutely! I don't want to sound like *that* much of a unix-bigot; but here, i guess i am. Isn't the word directory part of graphy theory? Or is it just KR theory :-) -g -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 5.67a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
