Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
snip After deciding I could not really buy a computer locally, I ordered my latest machine from Freedom Included, Inc from in the US. http://freedomincluded.com/product/lemote-yeeloong/ It is a MIPS-based subnotebook shipping with gNewSense (Linux distro). I don't think it is what the OP was looking for since it won't even run Windows without qemu (3hour+ compile for all targets). It is also a relatively small machine (netbook size). I am also not sure if the wireless would be supported in freeBSD. freedomincluded@freedomincluded:~$ lsusb Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 004 Device 003: ID 0bda:8189 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8187B Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps Network Adapter Bus 004 Device 002: ID 0bda:0158 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. USB 2.0 multicard reader Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub (Camera not listed) Regards, James Phillips I highly doubt the OP wants a Yeeloong. I have two (and cannot recommend Dan enough, he's a very cool guy) and I love them, both running OpenBSD. They don't run FreeBSD, kfreebsd-yeeloong notwithstanding (it was a GSoC project), however the wireless would work just fine, it's a urtw(4), which has been supported since 8.0. Actually, everything on the computer *would* work if FreeBSD was ported to it, but this is a non-trivial task and simply isn't going to happen until there are people willing to make it happen. With that said, the Yeeloong is not a good recommendation for anyone, with the exception of someone who wants to buy a nascent, possibly (hopefully) emerging architecture, to play with or to port software. Or someone who cares that much about free software and doesn't care about the limitations of the architecture. This isn't what the OP wants. ~Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Saturday 19 of February 2011 06:12:52, Craig Butler wrote: Lenovo destroyed thinkpad in the t410i range; * stupid flimsy/flexi keyboard with massive delete and escape keys (why ???) I don't liked it either so I stayed with R400. * gobi 2000 3g connectivity, cant get it working on anything none M$ Have you tried gobi_loader and http://old.nabble.com/-dev-ttyU0---block-at-open-td29876841.html ? As for the subject - my R400 is working fine and I have no problems with it. Opposite to when I had Lenovo 3000 series(poor performance,hot palm rest place, poor technical design: plastic cover too thin and too plastic. It made my lcd with background artefact of the 5cm circle in the centre of the screen) I think this line was transformed into the IdeaPad line Earlier I had Acer's Travelmate 3012 where it has issues with acpi and overall performance not to mention surprisingly hot keyboard. - Maciej ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
I am typing on a Lenovo Thinkpad R500 running 8-stable, after (a very high quality) instruction installation by Yamagi Burmeister (http://www.bsdforen.de/showthread.php?s=e2db5256b283497ca371738ad34b7572t=24823). I am very happy with both FreeBSD and my notebook since I switched (unnerved) from Gentoo Linux to FreeBSD last year. -- Christopher J. Ruwe TZ GMT + 1 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote: Reality: XP purchased with a Toshiba laptop runs native, but fails on virtualbox, on the same laptop. I believe XP is crippled to only run on Toshiba, vbox presents too clean/generic an environment ;-) Sometimes there can be activation issues with OEM versions of Windows XP. They're usually keyed to the manufacturer's BIOS. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:57:02 -0800, David Brodbeck g...@gull.us wrote: Sometimes there can be activation issues with OEM versions of Windows XP. They're usually keyed to the manufacturer's BIOS. Not a problem anymore - after 2014. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:32:59 -0500, Brian Callahan kors...@gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but I have been informed by several lawyers that you cannot do this. The Windows 7 EULA, when preinstalled on a machine, states that the agreement is between you and the company selling you the computer, and By using the Software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you to return the entire system on which the software is installed. The major OEMs will say OK, then you must return the computer, and you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA. Erm... and this is NOT a joke? Don't get me wrong, I had a good laugh about this... agreement... but nothing is too absurd to be true. In this specific context, does booting a FreeBSD and removing the Windows from the disk is equivalent to using the soft- ware? If I understand it correctly, using relates to the software, not the hardware. (Yes, I already understood the strange concept that by purchasing a Windows, either by a shiny package or as preinstalled part of a bundle with PC hardware, you do not own it, you're not allow to do with it as you please, instead you rent a limited right to just use it under certain circumstances and terms.) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
At 11:06 p.m. 17/02/2011, Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 07:23:57PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: Does it have to be new? The best deal might be to get a used laptop. Then it doesn't matter what it originally shipped with, all you care about is whether it's on the FreeBSD hardware compatibility list. Along these lines, I've seen many people recommending used ThinkPads. Might not be powerful enough for the latest Windows, but more than capable for running a BSD. Be very careful buying used laptops. There are a lot of refurbishers who are very shady, and a lot of private sellers online that are trying to make a fast buck off broken hardware. In fact, I wrote some code for a shady refurbisher last year to clean infections of their laptops -- infections that had worked its way into the images they used to clone drives for refurbished computers. I think thousands of their systems probably went out infected before they had me automate the virus-cleaning process for them. The short version is simply that I've seen how shady refurbishers work, up close and personal. Let the buyer beware. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Hello all. Thanks a lot for your comments. Just doing a little more research, you can not find powerful equipment, at least here, with other OS but Windows 7, and of course cost more. Here it does not matter if you say that I won't use Windows 7, you pay for it and no refund. All the powerful ones come with Windows 7 HP or Windows 7 Pro, No starter versions, so you pay for it if you want it or not. Last chance is to try Dell, will see later. I guess my best bet is top have a used one. Is not that it has to be new but I wanted to invest in something new that last some years, my last lap has 7 years but it is short on memory and won't accept more. I will use ebay I guess for used equipment and ask my friend to bring it if possible. If you have good suggestions for places to buy used equipment please let me know (on ebay I has bought in the past equipment that was dead already or that has problems immediately later). Of course sometimes I have bought very good equipment also. Thanks to all for the comments and your time. Jorge Biquez ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, Jorge Biquez wrote: Hello all. I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development. Any of the i3 / i5 systems will be using Optimus, even if they don't state as much, and this is not supported under FreeBSD or Linux, neither proprietary or FOSS drivers. Some of the higher-end laptops (Lenovo) you can switch off optimus either in BIOS or a hardware switch, but a lot of those details are hidden behind marketing. It doesn't matter if it's ATI or Nvidia, they still route through the Intel HD stack. Some of the i7 machines don't do this, but they're also space heaters for the most part. Basically, the current state of laptop support for non-Windows is fubarred for probably 6 month to a year or more on the Intel side and finding AMD laptops that have working graphics drivers under FreeBSD is hard as well. Henrik -- Henrik Hudson li...@rhavenn.net - God, root, what is difference? Pitr; UF ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Henrik Hudson wrote: Any of the i3 / i5 systems will be using Optimus, even if they don't state as much, and this is not supported under FreeBSD or Linux, neither proprietary or FOSS drivers. Some of the higher-end laptops (Lenovo) you can switch off optimus either in BIOS or a hardware switch, but a lot of those details are hidden behind marketing. It doesn't matter if it's ATI or Nvidia, they still route through the Intel HD stack. Some of the i7 machines don't do this, but they're also space heaters for the most part. There are about 90 notebooks listed on Newegg with ATI/AMD video that should be supported by the 6.13.2 or 6.14.0 xf86-video-ati drivers: X1000-series, HD3000-series, and HD4000-series. 72 of them have the Radeon HD4250. All of those machines have AMD processors. Don't know what is comparable to an i3 or i5, what type of wireless chipset may be included, or how good the ACPI support is on any of them. I'd look at Acer, Lenovo, then Dell and HP, maybe Toshiba if there was nothing else available. http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/index.html is relevant more to used machines, but always worth checking. In fact, if you have tried FreeBSD on a notebook that isn't on there, please create an entry for it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 08:41:09AM -0600, Jorge Biquez wrote: I guess my best bet is top have a used one. Is not that it has to be new but I wanted to invest in something new that last some years, my last lap has 7 years but it is short on memory and won't accept more. I will use ebay I guess for used equipment and ask my friend to bring it if possible. If you have good suggestions for places to buy used equipment please let me know (on ebay I has bought in the past equipment that was dead already or that has problems immediately later). Of course sometimes I have bought very good equipment also. In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops on the market. I keep an eye out for notable drops in quality, in case things change, but so far they are still easily the best new laptops for general use, where their configurations are suitable to one's needs (as opposed to cases where a Toughbook might be more appropriate, for instance). They have some of the best keyboards for touch-typing on the market, too, even including high-quality keyboard peripherals for desktop systems. You could try getting in touch with someone at Lenovo about ordering a laptop with no MS Windows license. I seem to recall hearing that's an option, or at least was an option at one time, but I have not really investigated it. You can also check Lenovo's outlet for prebuilt ThinkPads that suit your needs, put together for someone else's order that got canceled; they discount these laptops, even though they have never even been shipped to a customer. They also have laptops that were shipped and returned unopened, returned opened, and refurbished, for varying levels of discount and newness. Of course, the outlet ThinkPads come with MS Windows, but you at least get a discount greater than the markup for the Windows license that way. Be aware that the outlet sales are more prone to errors, though, as my girlfriend discovered when she bought an unshipped, prebuilt ThinkPad a couple years ago that had a license sticker and an installed MS Windows version that did not match. She just wanted to run something Unix-like on it, so it was not a big problem, but we found the mistake somewhat interesting. . . . and, of course, be aware that if you get a laptop with Intel HD Graphics, you'll be stuck with the vesa driver at 1024x768 on FreeBSD at least until Konstantin's work fixes the problem with the Intel drivers. Be careful about the hardware in your laptop, whatever brand you get, so you'll be sure to get the best FreeBSD user experience reasonably possible. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgp1BaqS1uZh4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
The major OEMs will say OK, then you must return the computer, and you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA. 192 sovereign countries exist with differing laws. Licenses I've seen from usually USA companies in Europe over decades have often seemed to contravene local law. USA allows more restrictions I believe: reverse engineering unbundling of soft+hardware bundles etc is OK in Europe I think. A British appeals court test case in '80s ruled against NCP: Conditions available after purchase are void. One would need an M$ licence to run M$, but if it held clauses that eg forbade running under emulation, or on replacement hardware, those could contravene some local law if so be void. M$ was heavily fined by European court a while back (Search with Microsoft convicted monopolist) I woudn't expect happy compliance. Reality: XP purchased with a Toshiba laptop runs native, but fails on virtualbox, on the same laptop. I believe XP is crippled to only run on Toshiba, vbox presents too clean/generic an environment ;-) Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail plain text; Not quoted-printable, Not HTML, Not base 64. Reply below text sections not at top, to avoid breaking cumulative context. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
Chad Perrin writes: In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops on the market. At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were _the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were _the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division. I'm typing this on my Lenovo X200 running 8.1. For the most part it works quite well and the quality seems similar to my previous IBM X40. The worst annoyance is that the sound volume is quite low, and I haven't yet figured out what to tweak to fix that. It has bluetooth and a fingerprint reader, neither of which I've set up, mostly out of lack of interest. R's, John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:08:09PM -0500, Robert Huff wrote: Chad Perrin writes: In my experience, ThinkPads are among the highest quality laptops on the market. At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were _the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division. I think that's a gross exaggeration. I had my fears/doubts about how well the ThinkPad line would hold its quality after the purchase, but I kept using it as long as I did not see any reason to stop. I have not seen a reason to stop. That is not to say that there were not some hitches. There was some talk of a lower-quality keyboard (too much flex in it) than in previous models on one model; I think it was the T500. Lenovo moved quickly to solve the problem, though, and gave people free replacement keyboards. If there has been a technical degradation in quality for ThinkPads under Lenovo's direction, it has been so minute as to not bring it down to the level of the run of relatively high-end laptops from other major manufacturers, so I don't see *too* much room to complain. In the twentyish ThinkPads that I have had, the hardware problems I have had include: 1. a screen that went out on a twelve year old ThinkPad (I don't recall the model number) 2. a screen that went out on a T60 this year -- but it was acquired from a sketchy refurbisher, and refurbished with parts from that refurbisher 3. a P3 600E that a friend of mine managed to fry (she killed electronics by touching them on a regular basis) 4. a T42p that spontaneously combusted (sorta: I smelled burning plastic and turned it off, rescued the hard drive, and -- because it was actually my employer's laptop -- got it replaced under warranty) 5. two batteries died after years of use That's all the hardware failures I've seen, and in most cases they lasted longer than any desktop system I've had. The rest of them -- those that did not suffer hardware failures -- just got handed down to others, one way or another, when I replaced them. Notice that exactly one of those was a Lenovo-built laptop. There are currently five Lenovo-built ThinkPads in my home -- an R52 (just post-transition from IBM to Lenovo), a T60, an X60 Tablet, a T500, and a T510. Of them, the only one with a hardware problem is the T60 with a dead screen, which is currently serving as a desktop system until I get around to setting up the T510 to cover what the T60 does for me. I'm not in a *huge* hurry, since I can ssh to the T60 and connect to a tmux session. That's one Lenovo-built laptop with which I've had any hardware failures, and it's the one that passed through the hands of a very shady refurbisher on its way to me. That's not to say there have not been problems since the Lenovo acquisition, but those problems are related to service rather than manufacture. For instance, their ordering process is a bit less sophisticated behind the scenes (they actually use a spreadsheet to track orders, apparently), and part of their technical service chain of operations has been outsourced. On the other hand, IdeaPads are something entirely of Lenovo invention, as far as I can tell. They're kinda like how ThinkPads might be if they were made by Dell -- superficially similar in some ways, but with crappier manufacture quality, fit and finish, reliability, keyboard feel, et cetera. In short, if there has been a substantive drop in manufacturing and hardware quality, I have not seen it. I suppose your mileage may vary. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgp9tCr3Xd1IQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 04:28:24AM +, John Levine wrote: I'm typing this on my Lenovo X200 running 8.1. For the most part it works quite well and the quality seems similar to my previous IBM X40. The worst annoyance is that the sound volume is quite low, and I haven't yet figured out what to tweak to fix that. It has bluetooth and a fingerprint reader, neither of which I've set up, mostly out of lack of interest. Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about sound. T/X 400+ ThinkPads seem to have relatively quiet sound. I don't know what's up with that -- and I'm not aware of any way to fix it short of replacing the physical speakers. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgprJvif751yY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Sat, 2011-02-19 at 04:28 +, John Levine wrote: At one point, Thinkpads - particularly the T4x series - were _the_ recommended used laptop. While it's been a while since i looked into this formally, my grapevine says the quality went downhill quickly after Lenovo bought IBM's pc hardware division. I'm typing this on my Lenovo X200 running 8.1. For the most part it works quite well and the quality seems similar to my previous IBM X40. The worst annoyance is that the sound volume is quite low, and I haven't yet figured out what to tweak to fix that. It has bluetooth and a fingerprint reader, neither of which I've set up, mostly out of lack of interest. R's, John Lenovo destroyed thinkpad in the t410i range; * stupid flimsy/flexi keyboard with massive delete and escape keys (why ???) * gobi 2000 3g connectivity, cant get it working on anything none M$ * cut the number of leds, power led no longer turns orange or flashes, no caps/scroll/num leds (again why ???) * stupid windows 7 stickers. Overall not impressed... /Craig B ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
Hola, Jorge-- On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Jorge Biquez wrote: I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development. You have some choices: 1) Find a vendor offering to sell a machine with Linux preinstalled. At times in the past, IIRC, both HP and Dell used to do this. 2) Call up a sales guy from your preferred vendor and ask to purchase a bare machine without OS. If they refuse to sell you one, choose another vendor. 3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund. Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On 17 February 2011 13:43, Jorge Biquez jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote: Hello all. I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development. My idea is to buy it with FreeDos or Linux installed or without operating system but here there is not an option for powerful equuipment unless you want one with Atom processor. The powerful one came ONLY with Windows installed. I am thinking to ask a friend that travels frequently to USA to buy one for me. Any suggestion of where and what equipment to buy, without OS (Windows) preinstalled? Of course at a good price and the most powerful one. ixsystems.com sells a FreeBSD laptop (probably not inexpensively). system76.com is ubunutu-based, so you might have to look closely at the wireless chip. That one e-online-dot-com internet web store named after a certain large, South-American river has a few of such for sale, as well. I'd buy one with Microsoft® Windows® Starter® Edition® and amuse myself by applying to the seller for a Microsoft® Windows® Starter® Edition® Refund® ( depending on where you live might provide _months_ of entertainment). Actually, new is too expensive for me: let someone else take the first price hit. -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
Quoth Chuck Swiger on Thursday, 17 February 2011: Hola, Jorge-- On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Jorge Biquez wrote: I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development. You have some choices: 1) Find a vendor offering to sell a machine with Linux preinstalled. At times in the past, IIRC, both HP and Dell used to do this. 2) Call up a sales guy from your preferred vendor and ask to purchase a bare machine without OS. If they refuse to sell you one, choose another vendor. 3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund. Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done. Regards, -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Until Konstantin gets his work on GEM finished, don't buy anything that uses the Intel Ironlake graphics chip (usually called simply Intel Integrated HD Graphics). The Intel driver for Xorg won't work, and you'll be limited to vesa at 1024x768. Others on this list may perhaps be able to recommend their favorite graphics option. -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgpOpxYSjynZP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Jorge Biquez jbiq...@intranet.com.mx wrote: I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development. Just to play devil's advocate: If you plan to run Windows under VirtualBox, you probably *do* want to order the laptop with Windows pre-installed. The reason is to legally run Windows in VirtualBox, you will need a Windows license, and it's far cheaper to get one bundled with the machine than to buy it later. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund. Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done. IANAL, but I have been informed by several lawyers that you cannot do this. The Windows 7 EULA, when preinstalled on a machine, states that the agreement is between you and the company selling you the computer, and By using the Software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you to return the entire system on which the software is installed. The major OEMs will say OK, then you must return the computer, and you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA. If you want no-OS laptops, try Puget Systems www.pugetsystems.com or PCs for Everyone www.pcsforeveryone.com HTH ~Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
Quoth Brian Callahan on Thursday, 17 February 2011: 3) Buy a machine with the base Win 7 Home installed, decline the license, and request a refund. Be prepared to waste significant time on this, but it can be done. IANAL, but I have been informed by several lawyers that you cannot do this. The Windows 7 EULA, when preinstalled on a machine, states that the agreement is between you and the company selling you the computer, and By using the Software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy. You must comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you to return the entire system on which the software is installed. The major OEMs will say OK, then you must return the computer, and you have no option but to comply. This is true for the USA. If you want no-OS laptops, try Puget Systems www.pugetsystems.com or PCs for Everyone www.pcsforeveryone.com HTH ~Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Those links both sport some pretty expensive prices. My comparable ASUS cost about half that, and came with Windows 7 installed (which I simply erased). Are those prices for real? -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgpE3tGwuIVeS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
Those links both sport some pretty expensive prices. My comparable ASUS cost about half that, and came with Windows 7 installed (which I simply erased). Are those prices for real? -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com Oh, I have no doubt they're for real. That's the problem with smaller OEMs. You can't live on razor thin profit margins. ZaReason www.zareason.com also has no-OS options (they're a Linux vendor). Again, prices aren't the cheapest. I personally buy my laptops by going to Staples, Circuit City, Best Buy, etc. with the latest OpenBSD-current to check its dmesg (and I highly recommend this) and blasting Windows off the HD as soon as I get home, but the OP asked for no-OS laptops. ~Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Thu 17 Feb 2011 at 10:43:24 PST Jorge Biquez wrote: Hello all. I am evaluating to buy a new laptop for using it only with Freebsd. I know in the website mention some options. Thing is that here the most powerful ones (I3, I5 I7) are sold ONLY with Windows installed and that increase the value of the equipment. I want the best option at a nice price (could be Intel or AMD) the ide is to have it as my main machine and when I need Linux or Windows have them there running under VirtualBox. The use will be mainly for web development. My idea is to buy it with FreeDos or Linux installed or without operating system but here there is not an option for powerful equuipment unless you want one with Atom processor. The powerful one came ONLY with Windows installed. I am thinking to ask a friend that travels frequently to USA to buy one for me. Any suggestion of where and what equipment to buy, without OS (Windows) preinstalled? Of course at a good price and the most powerful one. Does it have to be new? The best deal might be to get a used laptop. Then it doesn't matter what it originally shipped with, all you care about is whether it's on the FreeBSD hardware compatibility list. Along these lines, I've seen many people recommending used ThinkPads. Might not be powerful enough for the latest Windows, but more than capable for running a BSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Best Laptop to buy for Freebsd Without OS?
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 07:23:57PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote: Does it have to be new? The best deal might be to get a used laptop. Then it doesn't matter what it originally shipped with, all you care about is whether it's on the FreeBSD hardware compatibility list. Along these lines, I've seen many people recommending used ThinkPads. Might not be powerful enough for the latest Windows, but more than capable for running a BSD. Be very careful buying used laptops. There are a lot of refurbishers who are very shady, and a lot of private sellers online that are trying to make a fast buck off broken hardware. In fact, I wrote some code for a shady refurbisher last year to clean infections of their laptops -- infections that had worked its way into the images they used to clone drives for refurbished computers. I think thousands of their systems probably went out infected before they had me automate the virus-cleaning process for them. The short version is simply that I've seen how shady refurbishers work, up close and personal. Let the buyer beware. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpRhYVLfff8W.pgp Description: PGP signature
