Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 09:53:29PM -0500, Jud wrote: On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:57:38 -0500, nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Basically, the machine is overheating (I believe) because the cpu's aren't cycling down. Previously I was able to cycle the processors down with the following sysctl variables: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: machdep.apm_standby_delay: however, for some reason those variables currently, aren't any where to be found by the up_and_running system. Please use the hyperlink above for details. You may want to have a look at /usr/ports/sysutils/fvcool. (If you'd like a script to run it on startup, Dr. Matthew Seaman posted one to the mailing list some months ago - January?) Indeed I did. You can download it from http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/fvcool.tgz One of these days I must a) update the script to use the rcNG stuff and b) submit it to the maintainer of the fvcool port. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
Page updated-- http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing One (1) question is still outstanding ... Yes=I'm still researching this. - All incoming attachments get deleted. Have a nice day. - ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
Jud, (see below) - Original Message - From: Jud [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variablesnotavailable-- On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:05:02 -0500, nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [snip] I'm interested in those missing sysctl variables I posted @ http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing. Using a Third party application/script to fix something that was natively working or under control, I don't think, is the way to go and causes another level of complexity. [snip] No problem, I am interested in any and all *sane/reasonable feedback. I haven't been to much a fan of using third party applications to fix something the original code or hardware should be able to handle. FVCool isn't a third party application as I understand the term. Perhaps a portion of the README file will make things clearer: I understand better now (FVCool). Thanks for taking the time to explain that FVCool is not a third party application. I'm still questioning the difference in behavior --not only between the two (2) OS's when idling, --overheating in FreeBSD, and *not overheating in the non FreeBSD OS. whatsoever. As is well known AMD's Athlon/Duron is a 'hot' CPU. It really produces a lot of heat. This is mainly because it consumes a lot of electric power. However, there is an another reason: Generally CPU goes into power-save mode when it is in the idle state, but in almost all the mother boards this is prohibited in the case of Athlon/Duron mother boards in their original BIOS settings. This software changes the PCI configuration data of the chipset (north bridge), and allow Athlon/Duron to go into power-save mode. The principle is very simple if you have information. Actually, you can do exactly the same thing as this software manually by using the 'pciconf' command in FreeBSD. Why mother board vendors release their products with such BIOS settings? What's the reason? nothing here Well, there is a reason: There is a possibility to get the system unstable and/or even to hang or crash the system. Therefore, this software is somewhat dangerous in this respect, and I will not take any responsibilities for problems caused by using this software. Please check the original Martin Peters's VCool web site for learning more of technical details: http://vcool.occludo.net/; So what FVCool does is utilize the 'pciconf' command to encourage AMD CPUs to go into power-save mode when idle, a function most motherboard manufacturers turn off for the stability reasons mentioned by FVCool's author. As the documentation says, you can manually make these changes with the 'pciconf' command, but why not save typing by installing the port and running the 'fvcool' command, or run it automatically with a script? Based on the names of the sysctls you're after, I'd speculate they may operate in much (or even exactly) the same way. That is why I wondered, in response to your advice to Paul Mather, whether those sysctl settings would work with Intel CPUs. My suggestion to *Paul Mather was in fact a blind suggestion only based on the settings to lower the usage of the cpu and not raise; had it been the other way around, I'm not sure I would have recommended he set those knobs to '1'. The following fact/issue, i think, still remains outstanding; Using the setup I originally posted, we can do somethings within the non FreeBSD OS that will rival a looping 'make buildworld | buildkernel, utilizing both cpu's for encoding purposes while playing a quake3, utII game and the like, never overheating or exhibit any instability. Please don't take that above statement as a this OS is better than your OS. What I've understood from this particular posting is this: the motherboards used for the AMD Athlon/Duron(s) have a default BIOS setting --not allowing the processors to go into 'Power Saving Mode' --while intel based --default BIOS settings: *do allow 'Power Saving Mode' for the processor(s). y/n? That seems to be just a bit disturbing. If we could for the purposes of this paragraph alone, suspend the notion of *over heating while idling*... As someone stated earlier in the thread, what about these cpu's under heavy load within FreeBSD? -- in our case, without the air-conditioner on;-- will overheat and shutdown I have put these cpu's under heavy load in a non FreeBSD environment and the hardware refuses to break down, overheat or shutdown -- Unsuspend the notion of *over heating while idling*... -- Should we turn our air-conditioner off and set: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: 1 machdep.apm_standby_delay: 1 and let this dual AMD idle, the machine will overheat and shutdown in a matter of hours. Once the room is at a tempurature warm enough to make the machine shutdown, the only way to
Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:01:00 -0500, nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Why mother board vendors release their products with such BIOS settings? What's the reason? nothing here Not sure if this is what you were asking, but the reason is explained in the quoted lines just below: Well, there is a reason: There is a possibility to get the system unstable and/or even to hang or crash the system. [snip] What I've understood from this particular posting is this: the motherboards used for the AMD Athlon/Duron(s) have a default BIOS setting --not allowing the processors to go into 'Power Saving Mode' --while intel based --default BIOS settings: *do allow 'Power Saving Mode' for the processor(s). y/n? I don't know enough to be able to tell you whether Intel-based mobos are configured by default to allow a power saving mode, or if the fact that Intel CPUs run cooler (I remember reading a memorable description of the Athlon Thunderbird as a blowtorch on the head of a pin) means power saving mode never becomes an issue. That seems to be just a bit disturbing. If we could for the purposes of this paragraph alone, suspend the notion of *over heating while idling*... As someone stated earlier in the thread, what about these cpu's under heavy load within FreeBSD? -- in our case, without the air-conditioner on;-- will overheat and shutdown I have put these cpu's under heavy load in a non FreeBSD environment and the hardware refuses to break down, overheat or shutdown -- Unsuspend the notion of *over heating while idling*... -- Should we turn our air-conditioner off and set: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: 1 machdep.apm_standby_delay: 1 and let this dual AMD idle, the machine will overheat and shutdown in a matter of hours. Once the room is at a tempurature warm enough to make the machine shutdown, the only way to keep that machine on for more than five (5) to Twenty (20) minutes is to turn the air-conditioner on and leave it on. Should we turn our air-conditioner off and set: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: 0 machdep.apm_standby_delay: 0 Run a script to loop: make buildworld make buildkernel KERNCONF=MY_KERN The machine seems to run like a champ without overheating/shutting down. SUMMARY: I hear all of what you're saying here, however, if we leave apm out of this altogether, whether inTel, AMD or any other processor, shouldn't the processor(s), dual or not, be able to run full-throttle or, idle without overheating/ shutting down? Yes, but: Let's say for some reason (e.g., heat conducting cement/paste interface not quite so nicely done on this particular unit) that this unit runs hot in the first place. I don't know if the Other OS is tuned to the CPU, or has hooks into low-level functions in the CPU, or the CPU is tuned by the manufacturer to the Other OS, so that it remains just *this* side of shutdown with the Other OS, and goes just *that* side of shutdown with FreeBSD. (We're way beyond my level of knowledge here, so if any of this really is correct I just got lucky.:) Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
What version of FreeBSD are you using? Did you compile amp into the kernel? I think you're not understanding what I posted @ http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing The first line has what version I'm running. The entire document @ http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing implies; this was a running system with no serious issues; meaning; the sysctl items I'm speaking of were in fact available and working. If i can figure out how to make these sysctl variables available, I can set them like they were before, hence my overheating problem is solved. See what I mean? --- nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem can be viewed @: http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing Basically, the machine is overheating (I believe) because the cpu's aren't cycling down. Previously I was able to cycle the processors down with the following sysctl variables: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: machdep.apm_standby_delay: however, for some reason those variables currently, aren't any where to be found by the up_and_running system. Please use the hyperlink above for details. Thanks for reading. All feedback is welcome. - All incoming attachments get deleted. Have a nice day. - ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 17:38, nw1 wrote: The problem can be viewed @: http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing Basically, the machine is overheating (I believe) because the cpu's aren't cycling down. Previously I was able to cycle the processors down with the following sysctl variables: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: machdep.apm_standby_delay: however, for some reason those variables currently, aren't any where to be found by the up_and_running system. Please use the hyperlink above for details. Thanks for reading. All feedback is welcome. Okay, this piqued my curiosity enough that I took a look at the message in the URL above. Conclusion: FreeBSD doesn't even enter into it. The ONLY good solution to this is to get better physical cooling of the CPUs (or the entire box if you have to). Otherwise, you're still going to run into problems whenever there's a full system load. Chances are, they're still running way too hot even if they're not crashing the system. This will only result in premature failure of the processors. Take it from the close friend of an overclocker. :) If the machine is crashing (you only say overheating, which could mean either crashing or just getting dangerously hot), then I would even go so far as to say that there's a possibility that the stability of the processors is already decreasing, leading to the more recent crashes. Charles Ulrich -- http://bityard.net ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Overheating attributed to Freebsd --sysctl variables not available--
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:57:38 -0500, nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What version of FreeBSD are you using? Did you compile amp into the kernel? I think you're not understanding what I posted @ http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing The first line has what version I'm running. The entire document @ http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing implies; this was a running system with no serious issues; meaning; the sysctl items I'm speaking of were in fact available and working. If i can figure out how to make these sysctl variables available, I can set them like they were before, hence my overheating problem is solved. See what I mean? --- nw1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem can be viewed @: http://69.3.136.141/freebsd/installation/sysctl_variables_missing Basically, the machine is overheating (I believe) because the cpu's aren't cycling down. Previously I was able to cycle the processors down with the following sysctl variables: machdep.apm_suspend_delay: machdep.apm_standby_delay: however, for some reason those variables currently, aren't any where to be found by the up_and_running system. Please use the hyperlink above for details. Thanks for reading. All feedback is welcome. You may want to have a look at /usr/ports/sysutils/fvcool. (If you'd like a script to run it on startup, Dr. Matthew Seaman posted one to the mailing list some months ago - January?) Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
