RE: Token Ring (really)
There's some reasons that approach doesn't work, per IBM's protocol. Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 jw...@ezwind.net This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Bill Tillman Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:33 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Token Ring (really) From: Nikos Vassiliadis nv...@gmx.com To: Jay West jw...@ezwind.net Cc: 'Adam Vande More' amvandem...@gmail.com; 'mikel king' mikel.k...@olivent.com; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Token Ring (really) On 4/8/2012 4:41 PM, Jay West wrote: Adam wrote... Otherwise, it's time to abandon steamships for airplanes. Sounds like you have a primed business opportunity just waiting to be exploited. --- Actually, this is for a historical re-creation project. Airplanes would be entirely inappropriate for a historical display, so steamships it is. Last I checked, there was no primed business opportunity in doing something for non-profits (museums, etc.) :) I guess I'll have to see how tough it would be to yank the TR code from 7x and get it running under 9x. Probably above my skillset, but I'll have a looksee. J Hi, You could try finding an ethernet to token ring translating bridge, though I am not aware of the budget will need - or if you'll find one anyways. Just a thought, Nikos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Sorry to jump in on this one so late but here is my 2 cents on this one: Madge cards were all the rage back in 1996 thru 1999. I was IT Mgr for a financial services company which ran token ringring in-ring out and pass the MAU-e-wau-e pipe please. Back then, Madge cards ran $300 or more. These days you can buy a 1000mbs ethernet card for $5. So I vote for swapping out the NIC and get on with life. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Token Ring (really)
Jay West jw...@ezwind.net wrote: this is for a historical re-creation project ... I guess I'll have to see how tough it would be to yank the TR code from 7x and get it running under 9x. Might it not be both more historically accurate, and a great deal easier, to just use the version of FreeBSD that corresponds to the historical era being re-created? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Token Ring (really)
per...@pluto.rain.com writes: Might it not be both more historically accurate, and a great deal easier, to just use the version of FreeBSD that corresponds to the historical era being re-created? And skip feature, performance, and security improvements made since? Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Token Ring (really- and why)
It was written --- Might it not be both more historically accurate, and a great deal easier, to just use the version of FreeBSD that corresponds to the historical era being re-created? And skip feature, performance, and security improvements made since? --- Not in this case on the former, and the latter - agreed. The real historical part and focus of the exhibit isn't the FreeBSD machine. It's a dual bay HP2000 Timeshare BASIC machine. It has been restored to pristine cosmetic and electrical running condition (2000/Access) and that's the focus of the exhibit. One neat feature of the HP2000, even though it was a dedicated basic interpreter environment, it had the ability to submit jobs to HASP/MVS. MVS could run the code and direct output back to files on the HP2000, output to devices on that system, etc. It's a really neat add-on feature of the display/project to include and demonstrate that functionality. Given that a full blown VM/360 system isn't in the picture, we've used Hercules. One issue is cobbling together some hardware glue to deal with the interface between the HP and the IBM, basically emulating a sync modem and 2780 device on the Hercules side. That is mostly within my skillset. The other issue is that there needs to also be some terminal interaction on the IBM side, so we have a 3174 establishment controller with some 3179 terms and a 3290 gas plasma 4-session display. The 3174 attaches to the host (Hercules) via token ring. I had this all working perfectly with FreeBSD 7x, but when upgrading FreeBSD we lost token ring support. I could stay on an older version of FreeBSD, but then I am stuck with pretty old versions of Hercules (there are problems with newer versions of Hercules compiling under older versions of FreeBSD, some needed features are lacking in older versions of Hercules, etc.). So now you have the gory details as to why. Yes, there are a few other possible ways to skin this cat, but I have researched them all and found various issues both subjective and objective with going those alternate routes, hence my desire for native TR support. So back to the topic at hand. I pulled the oltr code from 7x svn and dropped it onto an 8x machine I had available for testing, added the requisites to sys/conf/files.i386, and make buildkernel attempts to fly. It appears the main reason that oltr was dropped at release 8 was that it had IFF_NEEDSGIANT which has been deprecated for MP Safe. Additionally, some of the functions in cpufunc.h (outbv and inbv) are no longer present in the exact same form. Outbv and inbv I can probably easily adjust, but I'm out of my league in the ins outs of removing the need for giant locks. I figured it wouldn't be as simple as just moving the code :) I'll beat my head against it as time permits, thanks for any input. Best, J ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Token Ring (really- and why)
On 04/09/12 23:42, Jay West wrote: It was written --- Might it not be both more historically accurate, and a great deal easier, to just use the version of FreeBSD that corresponds to the historical era being re-created? And skip feature, performance, and security improvements made since? --- Not in this case on the former, and the latter - agreed. The real historical part and focus of the exhibit isn't the FreeBSD machine. It's a dual bay HP2000 Timeshare BASIC machine. It has been restored to pristine cosmetic and electrical running condition (2000/Access) and that's the focus of the exhibit. One neat feature of the HP2000, even though it was a dedicated basic interpreter environment, it had the ability to submit jobs to HASP/MVS. MVS could run the code and direct output back to files on the HP2000, output to devices on that system, etc. It's a really neat add-on feature of the display/project to include and demonstrate that functionality. Given that a full blown VM/360 system isn't in the picture, we've used Hercules. One issue is cobbling together some hardware glue to deal with the interface between the HP and the IBM, basically emulating a sync modem and 2780 device on the Hercules side. That is mostly within my skillset. The other issue is that there needs to also be some terminal interaction on the IBM side, so we have a 3174 establishment controller with some 3179 terms and a 3290 gas plasma 4-session display. The 3174 attaches to the host (Hercules) via token ring. I had this all working perfectly with FreeBSD 7x, but when upgrading FreeBSD we lost token ring support. I could stay on an older version of FreeBSD, but then I am stuck with pretty old versions of Hercules (there are problems with newer versions of Hercules compiling under older versions of FreeBSD, some needed features are lacking in older versions of Hercules, etc.). So now you have the gory details as to why. Yes, there are a few other possible ways to skin this cat, but I have researched them all and found various issues both subjective and objective with going those alternate routes, hence my desire for native TR support. So back to the topic at hand. I pulled the oltr code from 7x svn and dropped it onto an 8x machine I had available for testing, added the requisites to sys/conf/files.i386, and make buildkernel attempts to fly. It appears the main reason that oltr was dropped at release 8 was that it had IFF_NEEDSGIANT which has been deprecated for MP Safe. Additionally, some of the functions in cpufunc.h (outbv and inbv) are no longer present in the exact same form. Outbv and inbv I can probably easily adjust, but I'm out of my league in the ins outs of removing the need for giant locks. I figured it wouldn't be as simple as just moving the code :) I'll beat my head against it as time permits, thanks for any input. I've been following this thread with a kind of bizarre fascination (or more accurately perhaps it should be the fascination of the bizarre?). Perhaps you should put those questions to the hackers@ list? Or even net@? Where is this exhibit? Is there somewhere I can follow your progress with this interesting diorama? I'd be fascinated to see this in operation :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Token Ring (really)
Adam wrote... Otherwise, it's time to abandon steamships for airplanes. Sounds like you have a primed business opportunity just waiting to be exploited. --- Actually, this is for a historical re-creation project. Airplanes would be entirely inappropriate for a historical display, so steamships it is. Last I checked, there was no primed business opportunity in doing something for non-profits (museums, etc.) :) I guess I'll have to see how tough it would be to yank the TR code from 7x and get it running under 9x. Probably above my skillset, but I'll have a looksee. J ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Token Ring (really)
On 4/8/2012 4:41 PM, Jay West wrote: Adam wrote... Otherwise, it's time to abandon steamships for airplanes. Sounds like you have a primed business opportunity just waiting to be exploited. --- Actually, this is for a historical re-creation project. Airplanes would be entirely inappropriate for a historical display, so steamships it is. Last I checked, there was no primed business opportunity in doing something for non-profits (museums, etc.) :) I guess I'll have to see how tough it would be to yank the TR code from 7x and get it running under 9x. Probably above my skillset, but I'll have a looksee. J Hi, You could try finding an ethernet to token ring translating bridge, though I am not aware of the budget will need - or if you'll find one anyways. Just a thought, Nikos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Token Ring (really)
I used to use the Token Ring driver in previous versions of FreeBSD (I think it was the oli one I was using). I know that Token Ring support was removed several releases ago. I again now have a somewhat pressing need for Token Ring support on FreeBSD 9. The FreeBSD Token Ring Project seems to be inactive from a look at the website. Would anyone know of a PCI token ring card that perhaps the manufacturer provides their own drivers for FreeBSD 9? All my google searches have come up dry. Or, if any of the FreeBSD Token Ring Driver Project developers are lurking around still, perhaps one of them would consider taking a donation to make the old FreeBSD olicom drivers work on FreeBSD 9? Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 mailto:jw...@opensourceassociates.com jw...@ezwind.net This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Token Ring (really)
Well over 20 years experience with FreeBSD, and I was not aware of Project Evil ;) I don't know if my olicom card has NDIS versions of their driver for token ring, but if so, that just might work! Still, getting the deprecated oltr driver on FreeBSD9 would be awesome Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 jw...@ezwind.net This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 11:31 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Token Ring (really) I used to use the Token Ring driver in previous versions of FreeBSD (I think it was the oli one I was using). I know that Token Ring support was removed several releases ago. I again now have a somewhat pressing need for Token Ring support on FreeBSD 9. The FreeBSD Token Ring Project seems to be inactive from a look at the website. Would anyone know of a PCI token ring card that perhaps the manufacturer provides their own drivers for FreeBSD 9? All my google searches have come up dry. Or, if any of the FreeBSD Token Ring Driver Project developers are lurking around still, perhaps one of them would consider taking a donation to make the old FreeBSD olicom drivers work on FreeBSD 9? Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 mailto:jw...@opensourceassociates.com jw...@ezwind.net This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Token Ring (really)
On Apr 6, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Jay West wrote: Well over 20 years experience with FreeBSD, and I was not aware of Project Evil ;) I don't know if my olicom card has NDIS versions of their driver for token ring, but if so, that just might work! Still, getting the deprecated oltr driver on FreeBSD9 would be awesome Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 jw...@ezwind.net Jay, What is the last version of FreeBSD that your card was supported on? Perhaps it would be worth firing up that older version. I know it's a long shot but at least you would have access to the driver code that may actually still work in the current version. It would certainly make an interesting story if you sort it all out. Regards, Mikel King BSD News Network http://bsdnews.net skype: mikel.king http://twitter.com/mikelking ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Token Ring (really)
Well, found the XP drivers for the card (it's a Madge Smart MK4 PCI adapter, not olicom as I thought). Ndisgen seemed to work fine After kldloading the resulting module, ifconfig shows: ndis0: flags=8843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST metric 0 mtu 1500 ether 00:00:00:ee:ed:c6 media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX) status: no carrier It is connected though (via DB9, not RJ45). I don't see how you can specify 4mbps or 16mbps, attempting the oltr media types for example UTP/4mbps says no such media type. I am wondering if the ndisgen utility is only designed for ndis Ethernet cards instead of my case - ndis token ring. :( Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 jw...@ezwind.net This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. -Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of mikel king Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 2:46 PM To: Jay West Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Token Ring (really) On Apr 6, 2012, at 1:30 PM, Jay West wrote: Well over 20 years experience with FreeBSD, and I was not aware of Project Evil ;) I don't know if my olicom card has NDIS versions of their driver for token ring, but if so, that just might work! Still, getting the deprecated oltr driver on FreeBSD9 would be awesome Jay West EZwind.net PO Box 460474 Saint Louis, MO 63146 Voice: (314) 262-4143 ext 1000 Toll Free: (866) 343-2589 Fax: (314) 558-9284 jw...@ezwind.net Jay, What is the last version of FreeBSD that your card was supported on? Perhaps it would be worth firing up that older version. I know it's a long shot but at least you would have access to the driver code that may actually still work in the current version. It would certainly make an interesting story if you sort it all out. Regards, Mikel King BSD News Network http://bsdnews.net skype: mikel.king http://twitter.com/mikelking ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Token Ring (really)
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Jay West jw...@ezwind.net wrote: Well, found the XP drivers for the card (it's a Madge Smart MK4 PCI adapter, not olicom as I thought). Ndisgen seemed to work fine After kldloading the resulting module, ifconfig shows: ndis0: flags=8843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST metric 0 mtu 1500 ether 00:00:00:ee:ed:c6 media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX) status: no carrier It is connected though (via DB9, not RJ45). I don't see how you can specify 4mbps or 16mbps, attempting the oltr media types for example UTP/4mbps says no such media type. I am wondering if the ndisgen utility is only designed for ndis Ethernet cards instead of my case - ndis token ring. :( It is still in the 7.x branch: http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/sys/contrib/dev/oltr/ Otherwise, it's time to abandon steamships for airplanes. Sounds like you have a primed business opportunity just waiting to be exploited. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
