Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
Chuck Robey wrote: JD Arnold wrote: Danial Thom wrote: --- Vladimir Tsvetkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is obviously a trick question, because real programmers don't use IDEs. Case Closed. I'm not a real programmer, but UNIX is a great developer environment. It's a tool based environment. Small tools, strong cohesion in what they are designed for, easy ways to combine them to form more complex tasks. Good documentation too. Actually you don't need anything else, you don't need a colourfull IDE. But... Maybe only few, really exceptional people can benefit and grok the power of this kind of environments. To me the ideal IDE is actually a toolkit: - Source Editor, preferably with a object browser or other kind of a source browser. An autocomplete functionallity could increase productivity too - this could increase quality if we measure quality of code by the low number of syntax mistakes, but this could also be a threat to quality letting the programmer write without reading carefully what is written - code bloating. - Compiler with a debugger. We must discuss about the pros. and cons. of a grafic debugger versus a text-mode debugger. The things are getting really messy when it comes up to debugging multithreading code and I really don't know what is the ultimate tool for this task. - A build tool. Ant or make will suffice. - Source control tools. CVS, SVN etc. - Documentation tools. POD, Doxygen, Javadoc or something else. - Unit testing framework. This is not always a tool. This could be a language extension, or a testing API. - Other tools. You don't need to put everything together in a single swissknife-tool, but this could be convenient in some cases. IDE vs. Toolbased Environments ??? Which is more productive and how to measure productiveness? Best Regards, Vladimir Tsvetkov Tools, schmools. vi and cc work for me. I do admit that I wish someone would get make to accept spaces instead of the (damn) tab. I think its time for that :) That's why you should graduate to Emacs - with the makefile syntax highlighting, you'll at least see the differences between tabs and spaces before getting into trouble due to bad whitespacing!-) you're certainly giving a viewpoint that has a great deal of truth to it, but I guess what scares folks is the horrible, horrible emacs learning curve,. At one point in my career (in school, lisp programming) I learned/used emacs. I admit, it's got so much power, there isn't even a close competitor. BUT at that time, I had a genius girl programmer at my side, and she helped me with emacs syntax so heavily it was funny, and so I could make use of emacs without really having to scale the learning curve. If I'd actually had to scale that learning curve, do you think I would have, even COULD have used emacs? One of the worst things I had happen, I needed, one year later, to go back to vi for a job, and just forgot enough emacs usages, and never went back. I'd love to, but I'd have to find another genius Lisp girlfriend, before I could do that. Likely? That's why emacs isn't the world's most popular editor/IDE. A couple of notes on this: * The coolest thing about Emacs is you learn it once and you are set for life. No matter what platform, there's bound to be an Emacs port. I've been using Emacs for 15+ years, and I've never had to learn another editor. And that includes working on the Atari ST, OS/2, any Un*x flavor of the month, etc. The native Windows port is one of the best ports, too. * You in no way, shape or manner need to know lisp. These days, with the fancy customize stuff, you almost never need to program in elisp. * I'd actually contend that emacs *is* the world's most popular (ie., used) editor in the world. Given the gazillion platforms it runs on, and it's amazing flexibility, I think you'd be hard pressed to name another one that can contend with it. * I'm not sure why you'd have to go back to vi for a job. Why would anyone care what editor you use, as long as you get the job done? I've worked in many companies, using many different platforms, and I've always used Emacs. -- Jonathan Arnold (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Daemon Dancing in the Dark, a FreeBSD weblog: http://freebsd.amazingdev.com/blog/ UNIX is user-friendly. It's just a bit picky about who its friends are. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On 2006-01-14 13:00, JD Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuck Robey wrote: At one point in my career (in school, lisp programming) I learned/used emacs. I admit, it's got so much power, there isn't even a close competitor. BUT at that time, I had a genius girl programmer at my side, and she helped me with emacs syntax so heavily it was funny, and so I could make use of emacs without really having to scale the learning curve. If I'd actually had to scale that learning curve, do you think I would have, even COULD have used emacs? One of the worst things I had happen, I needed, one year later, to go back to vi for a job, and just forgot enough emacs usages, and never went back. I'd love to, but I'd have to find another genius Lisp girlfriend, before I could do that. Likely? That's why emacs isn't the world's most popular editor/IDE. A couple of notes on this: [...] * I'm not sure why you'd have to go back to vi for a job. Why would anyone care what editor you use, as long as you get the job done? I've worked in many companies, using many different platforms, and I've always used Emacs. I'm sure Chuck, who is a very regular contributor to the lists, posting useful, knowledgeable replies, is not trying to troll against Emacs, but stating something that has been his personal experience :) I can definitely understand that, under certain circumstances, one may have to switch tools for political rather than really technical reasons. I have worked at places where we were not allowed to install 'extra' programs in the development machines, to avoid creating dependencies that the official build machines would not be able to satisfy. This had the silly side-effect that it was not possible to install a snapshot of Emacs on the development machines, so all we had was /usr/bin/vi. Having said that, I can usually install Emacs, either as a supported system package, or by bootstrapping it from source with --prefix=$HOME/opt, so I'm also using Emacs as my IDE for around 12 years now. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On 2006-01-09 15:30, Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JD Arnold wrote: That's why you should graduate to Emacs - with the makefile syntax highlighting, you'll at least see the differences between tabs and spaces before getting into trouble due to bad whitespacing!-) you're certainly giving a viewpoint that has a great deal of truth to it, but I guess what scares folks is the horrible, horrible emacs learning curve,. At one point in my career (in school, lisp programming) I learned/used emacs. I admit, it's got so much power, there isn't even a close competitor. BUT at that time, I had a genius girl programmer at my side, and she helped me with emacs syntax so heavily it was funny, and so I could make use of emacs without really having to scale the learning curve. If I'd actually had to scale that learning curve, do you think I would have, even COULD have used emacs? One of the worst things I had happen, I needed, one year later, to go back to vi for a job, and just forgot enough emacs usages, and never went back. I'd love to, but I'd have to find another genius Lisp girlfriend, before I could do that. Likely? That's why emacs isn't the world's most popular editor/IDE. If you remove the artificial requirement of the help person being your girlfriend at the same time too, I'm sure a lot of the current Emacs users will be glad to help /me grins ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
--- Giorgos Keramidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2006-01-09 15:30, Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JD Arnold wrote: That's why you should graduate to Emacs - with the makefile syntax highlighting, you'll at least see the differences between tabs and spaces before getting into trouble due to bad whitespacing!-) you're certainly giving a viewpoint that has a great deal of truth to it, but I guess what scares folks is the horrible, horrible emacs learning curve,. At one point in my career (in school, lisp programming) I learned/used emacs. I admit, it's got so much power, there isn't even a close competitor. BUT at that time, I had a genius girl programmer at my side, and she helped me with emacs syntax so heavily it was funny, and so I could make use of emacs without really having to scale the learning curve. If I'd actually had to scale that learning curve, do you think I would have, even COULD have used emacs? One of the worst things I had happen, I needed, one year later, to go back to vi for a job, and just forgot enough emacs usages, and never went back. I'd love to, but I'd have to find another genius Lisp girlfriend, before I could do that. Likely? That's why emacs isn't the world's most popular editor/IDE. I had a girlfriend with a Lisp. But what a body! DT __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
--- Vladimir Tsvetkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is obviously a trick question, because real programmers don't use IDEs. Case Closed. I'm not a real programmer, but UNIX is a great developer environment. It's a tool based environment. Small tools, strong cohesion in what they are designed for, easy ways to combine them to form more complex tasks. Good documentation too. Actually you don't need anything else, you don't need a colourfull IDE. But... Maybe only few, really exceptional people can benefit and grok the power of this kind of environments. To me the ideal IDE is actually a toolkit: - Source Editor, preferably with a object browser or other kind of a source browser. An autocomplete functionallity could increase productivity too - this could increase quality if we measure quality of code by the low number of syntax mistakes, but this could also be a threat to quality letting the programmer write without reading carefully what is written - code bloating. - Compiler with a debugger. We must discuss about the pros. and cons. of a grafic debugger versus a text-mode debugger. The things are getting really messy when it comes up to debugging multithreading code and I really don't know what is the ultimate tool for this task. - A build tool. Ant or make will suffice. - Source control tools. CVS, SVN etc. - Documentation tools. POD, Doxygen, Javadoc or something else. - Unit testing framework. This is not always a tool. This could be a language extension, or a testing API. - Other tools. You don't need to put everything together in a single swissknife-tool, but this could be convenient in some cases. IDE vs. Toolbased Environments ??? Which is more productive and how to measure productiveness? Best Regards, Vladimir Tsvetkov Tools, schmools. vi and cc work for me. I do admit that I wish someone would get make to accept spaces instead of the (damn) tab. I think its time for that :) DT __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
Danial Thom wrote: --- Vladimir Tsvetkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is obviously a trick question, because real programmers don't use IDEs. Case Closed. I'm not a real programmer, but UNIX is a great developer environment. It's a tool based environment. Small tools, strong cohesion in what they are designed for, easy ways to combine them to form more complex tasks. Good documentation too. Actually you don't need anything else, you don't need a colourfull IDE. But... Maybe only few, really exceptional people can benefit and grok the power of this kind of environments. To me the ideal IDE is actually a toolkit: - Source Editor, preferably with a object browser or other kind of a source browser. An autocomplete functionallity could increase productivity too - this could increase quality if we measure quality of code by the low number of syntax mistakes, but this could also be a threat to quality letting the programmer write without reading carefully what is written - code bloating. - Compiler with a debugger. We must discuss about the pros. and cons. of a grafic debugger versus a text-mode debugger. The things are getting really messy when it comes up to debugging multithreading code and I really don't know what is the ultimate tool for this task. - A build tool. Ant or make will suffice. - Source control tools. CVS, SVN etc. - Documentation tools. POD, Doxygen, Javadoc or something else. - Unit testing framework. This is not always a tool. This could be a language extension, or a testing API. - Other tools. You don't need to put everything together in a single swissknife-tool, but this could be convenient in some cases. IDE vs. Toolbased Environments ??? Which is more productive and how to measure productiveness? Best Regards, Vladimir Tsvetkov Tools, schmools. vi and cc work for me. I do admit that I wish someone would get make to accept spaces instead of the (damn) tab. I think its time for that :) That's why you should graduate to Emacs - with the makefile syntax highlighting, you'll at least see the differences between tabs and spaces before getting into trouble due to bad whitespacing!-) -- Jonathan Arnold (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Daemon Dancing in the Dark, a FreeBSD weblog: http://freebsd.amazingdev.com/blog/ UNIX is user-friendly. It's just a bit picky about who its friends are. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
Le 08/01/2006 à 18:37:33+0100, Kiffin Gish a écrit On Sun, 2006-01-08 at 12:26 -0500, Michael P. Soulier wrote: On 08/01/06 Ross Lonstein said: *cough* xemacs *cough* Great OS, but he wanted an editor. ;-) Flame away :) Hey, you asked for it. :) Mike Yes please: an editor plus integrated compile/build and debugger. I'm not programmer then I don't use any IDE. I manage many server for lots of students. I've install two IDE. kdevelopp (in KDE environnement) Eclipse This is for C++ «developpement» (It's not students in computer science but in mathematics.). Well you can try Regards. -- Albert SHIH Universite de Paris 7 (Denis DIDEROT) U.F.R. de Mathematiques. Heure local/Local time: Mon Jan 9 21:03:51 CET 2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
JD Arnold wrote: Danial Thom wrote: --- Vladimir Tsvetkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is obviously a trick question, because real programmers don't use IDEs. Case Closed. I'm not a real programmer, but UNIX is a great developer environment. It's a tool based environment. Small tools, strong cohesion in what they are designed for, easy ways to combine them to form more complex tasks. Good documentation too. Actually you don't need anything else, you don't need a colourfull IDE. But... Maybe only few, really exceptional people can benefit and grok the power of this kind of environments. To me the ideal IDE is actually a toolkit: - Source Editor, preferably with a object browser or other kind of a source browser. An autocomplete functionallity could increase productivity too - this could increase quality if we measure quality of code by the low number of syntax mistakes, but this could also be a threat to quality letting the programmer write without reading carefully what is written - code bloating. - Compiler with a debugger. We must discuss about the pros. and cons. of a grafic debugger versus a text-mode debugger. The things are getting really messy when it comes up to debugging multithreading code and I really don't know what is the ultimate tool for this task. - A build tool. Ant or make will suffice. - Source control tools. CVS, SVN etc. - Documentation tools. POD, Doxygen, Javadoc or something else. - Unit testing framework. This is not always a tool. This could be a language extension, or a testing API. - Other tools. You don't need to put everything together in a single swissknife-tool, but this could be convenient in some cases. IDE vs. Toolbased Environments ??? Which is more productive and how to measure productiveness? Best Regards, Vladimir Tsvetkov Tools, schmools. vi and cc work for me. I do admit that I wish someone would get make to accept spaces instead of the (damn) tab. I think its time for that :) That's why you should graduate to Emacs - with the makefile syntax highlighting, you'll at least see the differences between tabs and spaces before getting into trouble due to bad whitespacing!-) you're certainly giving a viewpoint that has a great deal of truth to it, but I guess what scares folks is the horrible, horrible emacs learning curve,. At one point in my career (in school, lisp programming) I learned/used emacs. I admit, it's got so much power, there isn't even a close competitor. BUT at that time, I had a genius girl programmer at my side, and she helped me with emacs syntax so heavily it was funny, and so I could make use of emacs without really having to scale the learning curve. If I'd actually had to scale that learning curve, do you think I would have, even COULD have used emacs? One of the worst things I had happen, I needed, one year later, to go back to vi for a job, and just forgot enough emacs usages, and never went back. I'd love to, but I'd have to find another genius Lisp girlfriend, before I could do that. Likely? That's why emacs isn't the world's most popular editor/IDE. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On 1/9/06, Chuck Robey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you're certainly giving a viewpoint that has a great deal of truth to it, but I guess what scares folks is the horrible, horrible emacs learning curve,. At one point in my career (in school, lisp programming) I learned/used emacs. I admit, it's got so much power, there isn't even a close competitor. Actually, I find Vim superior in most respects. I would use Emacs if someone would fix the broken modes that are accepted as best-in-class for most of the uses that I need. Meanwhile, Vim just works. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. --Albert Einstein ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
I've played around with Anjuta and Code::Blocks and was wondering what is the preferred open source C/C++ IDE available for advanced users. Pros and cons etc. would be greatly appreciated. -- Kiffin Gish [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 04:43:49PM +0100, Kiffin Gish wrote: I've played around with Anjuta and Code::Blocks and was wondering what is the preferred open source C/C++ IDE available for advanced users. *cough* xemacs *cough* Pros and cons etc. would be greatly appreciated. Flame away :) - Ross ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On 08/01/06 Ross Lonstein said: *cough* xemacs *cough* Great OS, but he wanted an editor. ;-) Flame away :) Hey, you asked for it. :) Mike -- Michael P. Soulier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. --Albert Einstein pgpeB1YkU9K3G.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On Sun, 2006-01-08 at 12:26 -0500, Michael P. Soulier wrote: On 08/01/06 Ross Lonstein said: *cough* xemacs *cough* Great OS, but he wanted an editor. ;-) Flame away :) Hey, you asked for it. :) Mike Yes please: an editor plus integrated compile/build and debugger. -- Kiffin Gish [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
Kiffin Gish wrote: I've played around with Anjuta and Code::Blocks and was wondering what is the preferred open source C/C++ IDE available for advanced users. Pros and cons etc. would be greatly appreciated. What would be the best IDE can I nor anybody else on this list tell you, it's a matter of taste. Anyway: I think anjuta is a realy nice IDE, it has a lot of features and it runs pretty fast, so that would be my tip. You can also try Eclipse + CDT plugin, which also seems to be a great developement tool, I haven't used the CDT plugin, but I'm using eclipse for java and it works realy great, allthough Eclipse does require a fast computer. Good luck finding an IDE which YOU like, -- -Frank Staals ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
*cough* xemacs *cough* Great OS, but he wanted an editor. ;-) Flame away :) Hey, you asked for it. :) Mike Yes please: an editor plus integrated compile/build and debugger. vim, emacs + make + gcc is all you need. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
--- Kiffin Gish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've played around with Anjuta and Code::Blocks and was wondering what is the preferred open source C/C++ IDE available for advanced users. Pros and cons etc. would be greatly appreciated. This is obviously a trick question, because real programmers don't use IDEs. Case Closed. __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
This is obviously a trick question, because real programmers don't use IDEs. Case Closed. I'm not a real programmer, but UNIX is a great developer environment. It's a tool based environment. Small tools, strong cohesion in what they are designed for, easy ways to combine them to form more complex tasks. Good documentation too. Actually you don't need anything else, you don't need a colourfull IDE. But... Maybe only few, really exceptional people can benefit and grok the power of this kind of environments. To me the ideal IDE is actually a toolkit: - Source Editor, preferably with a object browser or other kind of a source browser. An autocomplete functionallity could increase productivity too - this could increase quality if we measure quality of code by the low number of syntax mistakes, but this could also be a threat to quality letting the programmer write without reading carefully what is written - code bloating. - Compiler with a debugger. We must discuss about the pros. and cons. of a grafic debugger versus a text-mode debugger. The things are getting really messy when it comes up to debugging multithreading code and I really don't know what is the ultimate tool for this task. - A build tool. Ant or make will suffice. - Source control tools. CVS, SVN etc. - Documentation tools. POD, Doxygen, Javadoc or something else. - Unit testing framework. This is not always a tool. This could be a language extension, or a testing API. - Other tools. You don't need to put everything together in a single swissknife-tool, but this could be convenient in some cases. IDE vs. Toolbased Environments ??? Which is more productive and how to measure productiveness? Best Regards, Vladimir Tsvetkov ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Which is the best open source C/C++ IDE out there?
On 08/01/06 Vladimir Tsvetkov said: To me the ideal IDE is actually a toolkit: I believe Unix's original name was PTB, the Programmer's ToolBox. Hence why Unix usually _is_ my IDE. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. --Albert Einstein pgpAYxmlXVtDY.pgp Description: PGP signature
