Re: iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
Scott Long wrote this message on Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 09:35 -0600: FreeBSD. Making big statements in public that they don't, or that it's not up to ones' standards or hopes, isn't terribly useful or productive. I'd hate for FreeBSD to turn into That Other BSD that publically abuses and harasses vendors for percieved sleights. There are much more positive and product ways to fix problems and form good relationships, and those ways are actively being pursued by some people right now. The problem is that these pursuits are not public knowlege, and very often trying to get support through even better than normal channels (i.e. using your system builder's extra clout) doesn't get you this info... The most they tell you is sorry, no support, and we are just being nice to even tell you this since you're running something else... I believe that honest information is better than hopes that turn up fruitless... I've had no end of issues w/ Intel trying to get them to fix various issues w/ their cards (SRCU31A and SRCU42L), and they won't even acknowledge that failing drives due to SELECTION_TIMEOUT, ABORTED COMMAND, OVERLAPPED COMMANDS ATTEMPTED or DISCONNECT_TIMEOUT is a major issue... Due to the fact that SRCU31A is so old, they haven't qualified the newer 2.42 firmware w/ the card... We are going to look at it, since we haven't seen any failed hd's on the 2.42 firmware... And here again is my standard disclaimer: I highly recommend that anyone who takes their data integrity seriously should spend time qualifying any RAID solution that they are interested in before putting it into production. What works for your workload might not work for someone else's workload, and vice-versa. Agreed, luckily we found the hang issue w/ 5.x before we shipped, so we were saved yet another disaster... Patrick M. Hausen wrote: Hello! 'k, just to clarify here ... the new products won't be based on the iir(4) driver then? Yes, they won't. Basically, should the iir(4) driver be considered EOE also? As far as Adaptec and ICP Vortex are concerned, yes. Since the driver is Open Source, there is no enforced EOE, just orphanage, if nobody is willing to work on it. To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
Hi, Scott! Ok guys, time for a small breather here. All these claims about EoE and orphanage and whatnot are a bit premature and underinformed. I only stated that according to ICP Vortex Germany the GDT products are EOE and ICP Vortex will not provide an updated driver for FreeBSD. Nothing more. I talked to the person on the phone right before I sent my mail to the list. And that orphanage part depended on a big IF nobody is willing to work on it. Regards, Patrick M. Hausen Leiter Netzwerke und Sicherheit -- punkt.de GmbH Internet - Dienstleistungen - Beratung Vorholzstr. 25Tel. 0721 9109 -0 Fax: -100 76137 Karlsruhe http://punkt.de ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: Hello! On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 09:51:59AM +0200, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: That's really really bad news. Oddly, ICP Vortex Germany told me the opposite wr/t to their new line of cards. They said, they were working on full FreeBSD support. I'll check what they have to say about the GDT controllers. OK - so here's the deal: The GDT products are officially EOE (End Of Engineering). ICP Vortex will not provide capacity to update their own driver for FreeBSD 6. The new products will feature full FreeBSD support, eventually. (couple of weeks, he said) 'k, just to clarify here ... the new products won't be based on the iir(4) driver then? Basically, should the iir(4) driver be considered EOE also? Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
Hello! 'k, just to clarify here ... the new products won't be based on the iir(4) driver then? Yes, they won't. Basically, should the iir(4) driver be considered EOE also? As far as Adaptec and ICP Vortex are concerned, yes. Since the driver is Open Source, there is no enforced EOE, just orphanage, if nobody is willing to work on it. Regards, Patrick M. Hausen Leiter Netzwerke und Sicherheit -- punkt.de GmbH Internet - Dienstleistungen - Beratung Vorholzstr. 25Tel. 0721 9109 -0 Fax: -100 76137 Karlsruhe http://punkt.de ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
Ok guys, time for a small breather here. All these claims about EoE and orphanage and whatnot are a bit premature and underinformed. First, the iir driver is being worked on when the need arises. Several bugs were fixed in it a few months ago, and until Mark's recent series of mails on it, no other problems had been reported. So far there is only one person reporting unhappiness with it, which doesn't necessarily mean that there is systematic trouble with the driver or the hardware. Second, various Adaptec sources have confirmed that they do support FreeBSD. Making big statements in public that they don't, or that it's not up to ones' standards or hopes, isn't terribly useful or productive. I'd hate for FreeBSD to turn into That Other BSD that publically abuses and harasses vendors for percieved sleights. There are much more positive and product ways to fix problems and form good relationships, and those ways are actively being pursued by some people right now. And here again is my standard disclaimer: I highly recommend that anyone who takes their data integrity seriously should spend time qualifying any RAID solution that they are interested in before putting it into production. What works for your workload might not work for someone else's workload, and vice-versa. Scott Patrick M. Hausen wrote: Hello! 'k, just to clarify here ... the new products won't be based on the iir(4) driver then? Yes, they won't. Basically, should the iir(4) driver be considered EOE also? As far as Adaptec and ICP Vortex are concerned, yes. Since the driver is Open Source, there is no enforced EOE, just orphanage, if nobody is willing to work on it. Regards, Patrick M. Hausen Leiter Netzwerke und Sicherheit ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Scott Long wrote: Ok guys, time for a small breather here. All these claims about EoE and orphanage and whatnot are a bit premature and underinformed. First, the iir driver is being worked on when the need arises. Several bugs were fixed in it a few months ago, and until Mark's recent series of mails on it, no other problems had been reported. So far there is only one person reporting unhappiness with it, which doesn't necessarily mean that there is systematic trouble with the driver or the hardware. Second, various Adaptec sources have confirmed that they do support FreeBSD. Making big statements in public that they don't, or that it's not up to ones' standards or hopes, isn't terribly useful or productive. I'd hate for FreeBSD to turn into That Other BSD that publically abuses and harasses vendors for percieved sleights. There are much more positive and product ways to fix problems and form good relationships, and those ways are actively being pursued by some people right now. As email'd previous, I do apologize if my email was taken as disgruntled against Adaptec, for it was not meant as such ... it was merely meant as a warning to others, similar to your disclaimer below, that if you are running a card using the iir(4) driver, and are looking to move up to FreeBSD 6.x, that they might experience issues ... Please also note that until I hit what, from most angles, was appearing to be major brick walls, I was doing everything I could to, and am still willing to, provide all of the information I can towards diagnosing and fixing the issue ... I had tried all avenues that I knew about ... I tried email'ng the listed MAINTAINER, no response ... I got an email from one developer telling me that there wasn't much that could be done, due to the closed specs, without being able to get ahold of said MAINTAINER ... and the response I got back from ICP Vortex was one of the inbox driver should work fine, but we don't official support FreeBSD ... it doesn't leave much of a warm feeling that the driver is anything but orphaned :( My email was meant as a warning so that others could hopefully avoid the several weeks it took me to get to the point that all *appeared* lost ... Also, please note that in my email, I did finish it off with a plea that if anyone from Adaptec, or working with them, was out there, that my server was pretty much at their disposal to fix the problem, even at the risk of losing clients due to the downtime ... And here again is my standard disclaimer: I highly recommend that anyone who takes their data integrity seriously should spend time qualifying any RAID solution that they are interested in before putting it into production. What works for your workload might not work for someone else's workload, and vice-versa. In this case, we're talking about 3 servers that ran flawlessly with the iir(4) driver under 4.x, that are no exhibiting the deadlock/hang issues, after upgrading to FreeBSD 6.x ... Up until upgrading to FreeBSD 6.x, I've *never* had a problem with either an Adaptec controller, or running one with FreeBSD ... Scott Patrick M. Hausen wrote: Hello! 'k, just to clarify here ... the new products won't be based on the iir(4) driver then? Yes, they won't. Basically, should the iir(4) driver be considered EOE also? As far as Adaptec and ICP Vortex are concerned, yes. Since the driver is Open Source, there is no enforced EOE, just orphanage, if nobody is willing to work on it. Regards, Patrick M. Hausen Leiter Netzwerke und Sicherheit Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: iir(4) driver (Was: Re: Safe card to replace for ICP Vortex GDT851...)
On Aug 1, 2006, at 9:35 AM, Scott Long wrote: Second, various Adaptec sources have confirmed that they do support FreeBSD. There are new drivers for the 22300SLP for example (though one person replied to me privately and said they crash all the time). However, what they claim as support is not really support. There is no updated driver for older 2200s family cards, no updated management apps, no management apps for new cards (2230SLP has a driver from Adaptec, but no management or reporting app which makes it almost useless)... When you call Adaptec and tell them you are on FreeBSD, even if the issue is in their firmware, they don't want to talk to you (though they often still will -- my issue a year or two ago they did work on after telling me it wasn't supported)... Best regards Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
