Re: periodic, short freezes
On Sat, Nov 11, 2006 at 09:36:25AM +0100, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > On Sat, 11 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > >The fact that swap is in use, together with your description, > >indicates that your system is overloaded; those transient loads are > >causing it to periodically demand more working memory than is backed > >by RAM, so the system goes into a frenzy of swapping trying to > >accomodate, and system performance falls in the toilet until the load > >goes away. > > > >Add more RAM or limit the workload. > > Now that something to check - thank you very much Kris. Is that so that on > a typical system with enough memory to do its job there is no swap use on > average? From what I can tell swap is always used to some extent but I > have checked another system and swap use there is 0%. So you may be right > that this is the problem. There should be no significant swap use, although there might be a small amount (a few MB) in use. Certainly it should not change over time, because that indicates that the system needed to reshuffle things. Kris pgpBVgC7zmVfx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
On Sat, Nov 11, 2006 at 07:40:43AM -0600, Jonathan Horne wrote: > On Saturday 11 November 2006 02:36, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > > Hello, > > > > > > > Jonathan - what is your swap use? Cause you also experience this kind of > > problem... > > > > Thanks! > > i have all my apps open that i typeically run, and i have 108K of swap in use > (so not even 1 MB). > > my system is a p4 3.2HT with 1GB ram. i still havent had time to sit down > and > recompile my kernel with the ULE scheduler yet, but i will this weekend. Don't use ULE! I don't know where this bogus advice keeps coming from. Kris pgpAdI7LW45wX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
On Saturday 11 November 2006 02:36, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > > Jonathan - what is your swap use? Cause you also experience this kind of > problem... > > Thanks! i have all my apps open that i typeically run, and i have 108K of swap in use (so not even 1 MB). my system is a p4 3.2HT with 1GB ram. i still havent had time to sit down and recompile my kernel with the ULE scheduler yet, but i will this weekend. cheers, jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello, On Sat, 11 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: The fact that swap is in use, together with your description, indicates that your system is overloaded; those transient loads are causing it to periodically demand more working memory than is backed by RAM, so the system goes into a frenzy of swapping trying to accomodate, and system performance falls in the toilet until the load goes away. Add more RAM or limit the workload. Now that something to check - thank you very much Kris. Is that so that on a typical system with enough memory to do its job there is no swap use on average? From what I can tell swap is always used to some extent but I have checked another system and swap use there is 0%. So you may be right that this is the problem. Jonathan - what is your swap use? Cause you also experience this kind of problem... Thanks! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 10:18:59AM +0100, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Dear Kris and others, > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > >OK, you'll need to do some more diagnosis along the lines of my previous > >email then. > > Here's my typical load: > > last pid: 96934; load averages: 0.03, 0.06, 0.05 up 29+20:47:07 > 10:16:09 > 68 processes: 1 running, 67 sleeping > CPU states: 0.4% user, 0.0% nice, 0.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, 99.2% > idle > Mem: 140M Active, 35M Inact, 103M Wired, 12M Cache, 41M Buf, 15M Free > Swap: 512M Total, 127M Used, 385M Free, 24% Inuse > > Swap use is around 22%. This box mostly functions as mail server and there > are times when it gets a lot of emails to send. The load goes higher then. > The highest I recall (with no freeze mind you) was about 7.something. But > typically it does not go above 1.5. The fact that swap is in use, together with your description, indicates that your system is overloaded; those transient loads are causing it to periodically demand more working memory than is backed by RAM, so the system goes into a frenzy of swapping trying to accomodate, and system performance falls in the toilet until the load goes away. Add more RAM or limit the workload. Kris pgpFyXLKrsbDK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
On 10/11/2006 14:29, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Karol Kwiatkowski wrote: > >> Just a shot in the dark, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet: >> >> have you used any variables affecting kernel compilation, especially >> CPUTYPE, CFLAGS, COPTFLAGS? I remember seeing some strange effects >> when I messed with them too much (we've all been there, haven't we? ;) > > Thank you for this hint. I have checked the conf file. I do not have any > of the options you mention. The only reference to CPU that I have is: > > cpu I686_CPU > > But that's probably too obvious, isn't it? That's the kernel configuration. I686_CPU should be(?) fine on most i386 processors but you may check that. However I was asking about variables affecting the compilation process itself. Most of the time they're set in /etc/make.conf (If you're not sure make that file available via HTTP or post it's content to the list). > BTW - I put your domain on a whitelist as your email to me was rejected > by my MTA (sorry about that). Thank you again for your help! No problem, I'm used to that. It's a part of 'fun' when running a mail server on dynamic IP... HTH, Karol -- Karol Kwiatkowski OpenPGP: http://www.orchid.homeunix.org/carlos/gpg/0x06E09309.asc signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello Andy, On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Andy Greenwood wrote: the CPUTYPE, CFLAGS and COPTFLAGS are make.conf variables, not kernel config options. Well, thank you. Shame but I wasn't even remotely aware of it! And for this reason these are all commented out. Thanks again! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On 11/10/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Karol Kwiatkowski wrote: > Just a shot in the dark, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet: > > have you used any variables affecting kernel compilation, especially > CPUTYPE, CFLAGS, COPTFLAGS? I remember seeing some strange effects > when I messed with them too much (we've all been there, haven't we? ;) Thank you for this hint. I have checked the conf file. I do not have any of the options you mention. The only reference to CPU that I have is: cpu I686_CPU the CPUTYPE, CFLAGS and COPTFLAGS are make.conf variables, not kernel config options. But that's probably too obvious, isn't it? BTW - I put your domain on a whitelist as your email to me was rejected by my MTA (sorry about that). Thank you again for your help! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" -- I'm nerdy in the extreme and whiter than sour cream ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello, On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Karol Kwiatkowski wrote: Just a shot in the dark, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet: have you used any variables affecting kernel compilation, especially CPUTYPE, CFLAGS, COPTFLAGS? I remember seeing some strange effects when I messed with them too much (we've all been there, haven't we? ;) Thank you for this hint. I have checked the conf file. I do not have any of the options you mention. The only reference to CPU that I have is: cpu I686_CPU But that's probably too obvious, isn't it? BTW - I put your domain on a whitelist as your email to me was rejected by my MTA (sorry about that). Thank you again for your help! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On 09/11/2006 09:12, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > I am running FBSD 6-1 stable with custom kernel. Occasionally I > experience short freezes - that is the machine stops to respond for a > few seconds and then happily starts to work again. > > My general question is what log should I inspect or what debugging to > turn on to have some more info on what really happens? It does seem to > happen under bigger load (something like over 1) but I am not really > sure if that is the cause. Yesterday it ran for three hours with an > average load of over 2 and there was no freeze. > > Many thanks in advance for guiding me in troubleshooting the issue. Just a shot in the dark, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet: have you used any variables affecting kernel compilation, especially CPUTYPE, CFLAGS, COPTFLAGS? I remember seeing some strange effects when I messed with them too much (we've all been there, haven't we? ;) Karol -- Karol Kwiatkowski OpenPGP: http://www.orchid.homeunix.org/carlos/gpg/0x06E09309.asc signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello, On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Jonathan Horne wrote: any update on your freezing? i have the same problem from time to time, and ive considered changing to the other scheduler, but i never have. did you do it yet, and is there any difference? I checked some logs and see this: E 20061110 032156 1148 Error connecting to 192.168.11.51. E 20061110 032221 1148 Error connecting to 192.168.11.51. E 20061110 032246 1148 Error connecting to 192.168.11.51. which means FBSD was unavilable for at least 1 minute between 3:21 and 3:22 at night. Needles to say, I was not using tty at that time though at 3 we start sending quite a few emails (about 11K however they are fed in small batches over 2 hour period so the load is not too big). Is there any log in FBSD that I could turn on to get any feedback? -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
Dear Kris and others, On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: OK, you'll need to do some more diagnosis along the lines of my previous email then. Here's my typical load: last pid: 96934; load averages: 0.03, 0.06, 0.05 up 29+20:47:07 10:16:09 68 processes: 1 running, 67 sleeping CPU states: 0.4% user, 0.0% nice, 0.4% system, 0.0% interrupt, 99.2% idle Mem: 140M Active, 35M Inact, 103M Wired, 12M Cache, 41M Buf, 15M Free Swap: 512M Total, 127M Used, 385M Free, 24% Inuse Swap use is around 22%. This box mostly functions as mail server and there are times when it gets a lot of emails to send. The load goes higher then. The highest I recall (with no freeze mind you) was about 7.something. But typically it does not go above 1.5. -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 11:29:51PM +0100, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > >How do you know the entire system is freezing instead of just the tty? > >:) If you have e.g. heavy disk write activity then the syncer will > >grab Giant while flushing periodically and delay other things that > >require Giant, like serial terminals. > > I do not think that's the case. I have another box that works as a mail > relay server that passes messages for exim under FBSD. Now when the freeze > occurs, I check the relay server and it cannot connect to the FBSD box > (both are on the same lan). That's why I think it is a general box freeze > and not just a tty problem. OK, you'll need to do some more diagnosis along the lines of my previous email then. Kris pgpZopJRF2k9z.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello, On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: How do you know the entire system is freezing instead of just the tty? :) If you have e.g. heavy disk write activity then the syncer will grab Giant while flushing periodically and delay other things that require Giant, like serial terminals. I do not think that's the case. I have another box that works as a mail relay server that passes messages for exim under FBSD. Now when the freeze occurs, I check the relay server and it cannot connect to the FBSD box (both are on the same lan). That's why I think it is a general box freeze and not just a tty problem. Thanks! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:56:53PM +0100, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > >Is your system swapping? Monitor with top, swapinfo, etc. > > I will take a more careful look in the course of next few days. The > problem is that I access this box only via tty so when it does freeze I > have no way to determine what really happens. How do you know the entire system is freezing instead of just the tty? :) If you have e.g. heavy disk write activity then the syncer will grab Giant while flushing periodically and delay other things that require Giant, like serial terminals. Kris pgp91osAmGRzV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello, On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Kris Kennaway wrote: Is your system swapping? Monitor with top, swapinfo, etc. I will take a more careful look in the course of next few days. The problem is that I access this box only via tty so when it does freeze I have no way to determine what really happens. Thanks! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 09:12:06AM +0100, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: > Hello, > > I am running FBSD 6-1 stable with custom kernel. Occasionally I experience > short freezes - that is the machine stops to respond for a few seconds and > then happily starts to work again. > > My general question is what log should I inspect or what debugging to turn > on to have some more info on what really happens? It does seem to happen > under bigger load (something like over 1) but I am not really sure if that > is the cause. Yesterday it ran for three hours with an average load > of over 2 and there was no freeze. > > Many thanks in advance for guiding me in troubleshooting the issue. Is your system swapping? Monitor with top, swapinfo, etc. Kris pgp4fLrGaVHfv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: periodic, short freezes
Hello, On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/9/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am running FBSD 6-1 stable with custom kernel. Occasionally I experience short freezes - that is the machine stops to respond for a few seconds and then happily starts to work again. kernels built with optionsSCHED_ULE Behave like that for me. In my case I have SCHED_ULE commented out (probably by default I do not recall commenting it out myself): #optionsSCHED_ULE # ULE scheduler options SCHED_4BSD # 4BSD scheduler Thanks! -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: periodic, short freezes
On 11/9/06, Zbigniew Szalbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am running FBSD 6-1 stable with custom kernel. Occasionally I experience short freezes - that is the machine stops to respond for a few seconds and then happily starts to work again. kernels built with optionsSCHED_ULE Behave like that for me. -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
periodic, short freezes
Hello, I am running FBSD 6-1 stable with custom kernel. Occasionally I experience short freezes - that is the machine stops to respond for a few seconds and then happily starts to work again. My general question is what log should I inspect or what debugging to turn on to have some more info on what really happens? It does seem to happen under bigger load (something like over 1) but I am not really sure if that is the cause. Yesterday it ran for three hours with an average load of over 2 and there was no freeze. Many thanks in advance for guiding me in troubleshooting the issue. -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
