Re: [Freedos-devel] Bad dates / false updates in Software List
The Last Updated dates in the Software List represent the last time the LSM entry was modified, NOT the date of the most recent release. We might have done some cleanup on some of those items, or updated the maintainer, and the Last Updated would have been automatically set to when we touched that entry. In most cases, it's because we realized we'd missed the most recent release of something (ie, posted a news item on the web site, but no one mirrored the new version to ibilio or updated the Software List.) When Bernd started working on FreeDOS 1.1, I went through the Software List to make sure everything was correct - and found quite a few items that needed to be updated. jh On Sep 12, 2011 11:52 PM, dos386 dos...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.freedos.org/software/?cat=base The list pretends many things (HIMEMX, FREECOM, DISKCOPY, ...) to have been updated recently 2011, but this is not true. Also the directory timestamps at ibibio are bad / misleading, but surprisingly not for DISKCOPY. IIRC I had already complained about this some time ago, isn't there a set directory timestamps to newest content ? -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
I agree, and I wrote about similar ideas a while back in consideration of what we might want in 2.0. http://sourceforge.net/userapps/wordpress/jhall1/2009/04/ An easy way to get there, of course, is by simply using instances of a lightweight VM emulator like DOSemu, on a stripped down version of Linux. An even better way would be to support true multitasking. But I would be thrilled if we provided even task switching, such as through a shell. I emailed the contact person of VMiX yesterday, to see if he might be interested in opening VMiX as open source software. That project hasn't been updated since 2007, so it's possible no one is working on VMiX anymore. If they would be willing to open VMiX under the GNU GPL, I'd love to see us add VMiX to a future release of FreeDOS. But this is all 2.0 talk, and we have yet to get 1.1 out. So I'll table the rest of my thoughts for now. jh On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:24 PM, Michael B. Brutman mbbrut...@brutman.com wrote: I have been thinking about what a more modern DOS would look like. Some ideas ... - A task would look a lot like a single instance of DOS running today. The address space of a task would look the same, so it would have the interrupt table, BIOS area, video display buffer, expansion ROMs, system ROM, and extended memory that you find on a DOS system today. (Kind of like a running instance of DOSBox, but with better device and hardware emulation.) - MS DOS has its own concept of process, which is an instance of a running executable. That concept remains unchanged. Multiple processes live within a task (as defined above) just as they do today. - The DOS kernel supports most (if not all) of the standard DOS functions. As there is an interrupt table and system ROM, BIOS functions are available as well. - Multiple tasks could be started and running. But they are logically part of one machine and one OS, not just separate instances of an emulator. The underlying kernel is a bit more sophisticated: - There is a shared filesystem for the machine. If that filesystem is not FAT then it is made to look like FAT by the time the DOS function calls run. - Memory mapping is used so that the tasks exist in different address spaces, and thus are protected against each other. Memory mapping is also used to give the illusion that each copy has its own video buffer so that direct screen writes and other normal practices are not problems. - The DOS portion of the operating system that is visible to the user applications is a thin wrapper that calls into the real OS. That keeps the memory footprint of the DOS kernel in each task minimal. - There is a real networking stack that can be used, and is shared across the entire machine. Additional DOS function calls are defined to use it, or a packet driver used a shim is used to support existing applications. - The kernel provides some other services that we are missing, like cut n paste support between the different tasks and inter-process communication. Another way to look at this is that you have a real operating system like Linux with a new (or better) DOS emulator. The DOS emulator takes some pain to try to emulate a real machine; keyboard interrupts, timer tick interrupts, 8250 and 16550 device emulation, etc. The difference is that unlike running multiple instances of DOSBox in separate Linux processes, the emulator allows some sharing of common state and data between the different emulated DOS tasks. I can't see adding all of this (or even 1/10th of it) to FreeDOS. But I can see starting with a fairly stripped down Linux base and doing some hardcore development work with KVM to build this. Riding on top of Linux takes care of our hardware compatibility problems and the emulator should preserve most of our existing software base. Mike -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
[VMiX ...] Rugxulo found the link (http://www.sysdev.org/). They aren't on SourceForge, it seems they are shareware instead. I don't know, I didn't look too too closely, esp. since it was confusing. I'm not sure if all versions are shareware or just the newer (2007? beta? 3.x?) ones. There is source code for some of it (!), but I don't know the licensing. I did see an LGPL copying file somewhere, but I don't know if that applied to the whole or not or even something else. In fact I doubt it, esp. since one of their ZIPs had old MS-DOS 5's command.com (and some other tools), ick. So yeah, that's what I meant by murky / annoying / didn't check too closely. Anybody else, feel free to take a closer look and report back to us. But please don't e-mail them and harass them. A simple query might suffice, but they presumably can't handle all of us nagging them to death. I emailed him about it yesterday. jh-- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
An easy way to get there, of course, is by simply using instances of a lightweight VM emulator like DOSemu, on a stripped down version of Linux. An even better way would be to support true multitasking. But I would be thrilled if we provided even task switching, such as through a shell. I emailed the contact person of VMiX yesterday, to see if he might be interested in opening VMiX as open source software. clicking on the [download] button leads to ftp://ftp.sysdev.org/pub/VMiX-3/ That project hasn't been updated since 2007, similar to freedos 1.0, so it's possible that this is dead as well so it's possible no one is working on VMiX anymore. If they would be willing to open VMiX under the GNU GPL, I'd love to see us add VMiX to a future release of FreeDOS. it's GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. how much more o you expect ? But this is all 2.0 talk, and we have yet to get 1.1 out. So I'll table the rest of my thoughts for now. jh On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:24 PM, Michael B. Brutman mbbrut...@brutman.com wrote: I have been thinking about what a more modern DOS would look like. Some ideas ... - A task would look a lot like a single instance of DOS running today. The address space of a task would look the same, so it would have the interrupt table, BIOS area, video display buffer, expansion ROMs, system ROM, and extended memory that you find on a DOS system today. (Kind of like a running instance of DOSBox, but with better device and hardware emulation.) - MS DOS has its own concept of process, which is an instance of a running executable. That concept remains unchanged. Multiple processes live within a task (as defined above) just as they do today. - The DOS kernel supports most (if not all) of the standard DOS functions. As there is an interrupt table and system ROM, BIOS functions are available as well. - Multiple tasks could be started and running. But they are logically part of one machine and one OS, not just separate instances of an emulator. The underlying kernel is a bit more sophisticated: - There is a shared filesystem for the machine. If that filesystem is not FAT then it is made to look like FAT by the time the DOS function calls run. - Memory mapping is used so that the tasks exist in different address spaces, and thus are protected against each other. Memory mapping is also used to give the illusion that each copy has its own video buffer so that direct screen writes and other normal practices are not problems. - The DOS portion of the operating system that is visible to the user applications is a thin wrapper that calls into the real OS. That keeps the memory footprint of the DOS kernel in each task minimal. - There is a real networking stack that can be used, and is shared across the entire machine. Additional DOS function calls are defined to use it, or a packet driver used a shim is used to support existing applications. - The kernel provides some other services that we are missing, like cut n paste support between the different tasks and inter-process communication. Another way to look at this is that you have a real operating system like Linux with a new (or better) DOS emulator. The DOS emulator takes some pain to try to emulate a real machine; keyboard interrupts, timer tick interrupts, 8250 and 16550 device emulation, etc. The difference is that unlike running multiple instances of DOSBox in separate Linux processes, the emulator allows some sharing of common state and data between the different emulated DOS tasks. I can't see adding all of this (or even 1/10th of it) to FreeDOS. But I can see starting with a fairly stripped down Linux base and doing some hardcore development work with KVM to build this. Riding on top of Linux takes care of our hardware compatibility problems and the emulator should preserve most of our existing software base. Mike -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
Le 13/09/2011 15:37, Tom Ehlert a écrit : An easy way to get there, of course, is by simply using instances of a lightweight VM emulator like DOSemu, on a stripped down version of Linux. An even better way would be to support true multitasking. But I would be thrilled if we provided even task switching, such as through a shell. I emailed the contact person of VMiX yesterday, to see if he might be interested in opening VMiX as open source software. clicking on the [download] button leads to ftp://ftp.sysdev.org/pub/VMiX-3/ Oh cool, sources ! I recall testing it briefly and it worked not too bad. IIRC it had some odd GNU-screen-like screen splitting, the vertical one was a bit strange to use though :) That project hasn't been updated since 2007, similar to freedos 1.0, so it's possible that this is dead as well Maybe they'd be willing to open a sourceforge project themselves and take the lead on it ? It seems some files on the FTP were modified this summer, so it's not totally dead. so it's possible no one is working on VMiX anymore. If they would be willing to open VMiX under the GNU GPL, I'd love to see us add VMiX to a future release of FreeDOS. it's GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. how much more o you expect ? MIT ? :P LGPL is compatible with GPL anyway. François. -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
I emailed the contact person of VMiX yesterday, to see if he might be interested in opening VMiX as open source software. clicking on the [download] button leads to ftp://ftp.sysdev.org/pub/VMiX-3/ so it's possible no one is working on VMiX anymore. If they would be willing to open VMiX under the GNU GPL, I'd love to see us add VMiX to a future release of FreeDOS. it's GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. how much more o you expect ? That's interesting! The file I read on their site said shareware, so I didn't look further. Maybe I was looking at an old file. I'll look at this again. Thanks, jh-- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
[Freedos-devel] Heads up: DOS ain't dead forum is closing
Here is the link to the announcement: http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=10488 To me this is a serious problem - losing a piece of the DOS community is bad. Losing the place where a lot of the programmers hang out is even worse. Mike -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
[Freedos-devel] New KEYB ahead
Hi, I have managed to patch a couple of bugs I found on KEYB 2.0, and have KEYB 2.01 ready to launch (I just have to create the packages and such). I haven't been able to reproduce the bugs that some people have occasionaly mentioned here on the list when in use with JEMM, so I don't know if the patches I have applied improve it, but if someone could/wants to try it and see if those bugs are gone, is more than welcome to get the binary and test it before I do the official release. Cheers to all, Aitor -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Pat Villani
Sad news indeed!! The first stone towards the big building called FreeDOS. My condolences too, Aitor 2011/8/30 Jim Hall jh...@freedos.org: FreeDOS friends: I must share the sad news that Pasquale Pat Villani, 57, passed away on Saturday night, at his home. Many of you knew Pat. For our new members: Pat Villani was the author of the original FreeDOS kernel. Pat and I were good friends. Although we never met in person, we chatted on the phone several times. And lots and lots of email conversations, half the time about FreeDOS and half about just anything. The last time Pat and I emailed each other, he was following the work on FreeDOS 1.1 with great interest. I have known for a long time that he wasn't doing well, but of course you're never prepared for these things. To read the obituary, and to leave an online condolence message, please visit: http://cmfh.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/192/runtime.php?SiteId=192NavigatorId=30617op=tributeObituaryviewOpt=dpaneOnlyItemId=943473 If that direct link doesn't work, you may find the information on http://www.claytonfuneralhome.com/ My thoughts are with his family. Thanks. -jh -- Special Offer -- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! And you'll get a free Love Thy Logs t-shirt when you download Logger. Secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsisghtdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel -- Using storage to extend the benefits of virtualization and iSCSI Virtualization increases hardware utilization and delivers a new level of agility. Learn what those decisions are and how to modernize your storage and backup environments for virtualization. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51434361/ ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Freedos and lack of drivers
At 11:46 AM 9/13/2011, jhall wrote: I emailed the contact person of VMiX yesterday, to see if he might be interested in opening VMiX as open source software. clicking on the [download] button leads to ftp://ftp.sysdev.org/pub/VMiX-3/ftp://ftp.sysdev.org/pub/VMiX-3/ so it's possible no one is working on VMiX anymore. If they would be willing to open VMiX under the GNU GPL, I'd love to see us add VMiX to a future release of FreeDOS. it's GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. how much more o you expect ? That's interesting! The file I read on their site said shareware, so I didn't look further. Maybe I was looking at an old file. I'll look at this again. Only the BABy part (Basic ABstraction Layer) tool/library is under LGPL, the rest is still marked as shareware... Ralf -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
