Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Aitor Santamaría]

Thank you Tom!!

I've set this bug to my list of to-do's, and will go to the next version.

Aitor


2012-06-25 13:24 GMT+02:00 Tom Ehlert t...@drivesnapshot.de:


 KEYB.EXE 11,446 06-24-12

  leaves, when running, a huge memory hole. at least with only HIMEM
  loaded. note the HUGE memory hole behind KEYB

 the problem is

 function MCBAlloc ( para: word ) : word;
 var allocs,f,m: word;

 mov ah, $58  { set alloc strategy }
 mov al, 1
 xor bh,bh
  mov bl, $41
 int $21

 using 'best fit' is virtually ALWAYS a bug for a TSR

 solution 1) use some buffer in the program, at the end of the TSR
 code. use/resize this buffer as needed

 solution 2) use
   mov bl, $82   last fit, try high then low memory

 this allocates memory from top, but doesn't create holes.

 unfortunately I'm not able to compile this; awaiting the  maintainer
 to fix this bug

 Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Aitor Santamaría]

Hi,

The problem is that I'm not having as much spare time lately as I used to
have.
At this moment, I'm trying to recover a comfortable programming environment
in a Win7 Laptop.

But it's not so easy as it used to be since the 64-bit arrived everywhere,
the 16-bit DOS programs no longer run natively, and I'm setting a virtual
machine with a network link to my real harddrive. If only things were as
easy as they used to be :(

There's another idea lingering around (but that I won't be able to perform
in a time soon), which is to create a virtual machine with DOS development
software, that could maybe be made downloadable for whoever wants to
develop for DOS. The problem here is picking the operating system that can
route such network drive correctly, and on which you can comfortably
multitask between the IDE, compiler, and a DOS to run tests (out of
licensing problems, WinXP would be a nice choice :( ).

Choosing the VM for a freely distributable manager is also a problem: in a
remote past I used VMware, that worked fairly well. I have been
experimenting with Bosch, QEmu, and VirtualBox, as I also wanted Linux VMs
for such environments, and I was pretty unsuccessful with Bosch, somewhat
successful with QEmu, but VirtualBox seemed to be doing pretty well.

What's your own experience for virtual machines? ideas or suggestions?

Aitor




2012-08-11 10:06 GMT+02:00 Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com:

 Hi again,

 On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Tom Ehlert t...@drivesnapshot.de wrote:
 
  Surely a simple binary patch is possible in the meantime. I've not
  tested this (yet), but you could try this:
 
  upx -d keyb.exe
  hiew keyb.exe (or similar hex editor)
  offset 0x3E06 is mov bl, 0x41
  change offset 0x3E07 from 0x41 to 0x82
  run modified version for comparison (keyb.exe /blah ...)
 
  ok. this works much better.
  now when will we have FreeDOS 1.1.2 with this bug fixed ?

 Unless somebody else volunteers, it's probably? up to Bernd (no
 pressure!), so when it's done!   ;-)

 BTW, it's been almost two months since you first mentioned this, so I
 don't know what's up with Aitor, haven't heard from him. It's easy
 (maybe too easy!) to forget little fixes when no one shows much
 interest. I can only blindly guess that Aitor only has intermittent
 access to the Internet these days. Oh well, blame real life (tm), this
 isn't hugely urgent or important anyways.

 Anyways, I figured I'd go ahead and upload this patch (and the FD Edit
 one) to iBiblio for completeness. I mean, I don't know what else to
 do, any better ideas??

 http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/keyb/2.01/
 http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/edit/

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Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Aitor Santamaría]

Hello,


2012-08-12 16:32 GMT+02:00 Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com:

 FD EDIT doesn't seem to compile in TC20 anymore. Though it worked fine
 for me with TC++101, but that's not freeware from Embarcadero anymore.
 It may? (or at least used to) optionally compile with OpenWatcom, but
 I haven't personally tried yet. (Seems Aitor's build internally says
 Borland C++ from 1991 while my TC++101 says Turbo C++ from 1990.
 In other words, an XDelta is almost as big as the new .EXE itself due
 to differing compilers, so that's a bust.)


Apparently TC2 and TC++ were rather incompatible, so I opted for TC++, but
the compiler of preference is OpenWatcom ;)

Some of the base functions to interact with DOS (just calling DOS functions
that OpenWatcom libraries don't carry, such as country info, mouse, ...)
have even been thinking of rewriting in OpenWatcom style, maybe at some
point I could contribute then to OpenWatcom, if I happen to discover how
(similar sources come with a comment that they have been automatically
created, so I have to figure out how OWC works).



 FD KEYB uses TP7, which ain't freeware, so we're kinda stuck there.
 Luckily, it's only a one-byte patch (thanks to Tom E.), very easy to
 apply.

 You could legitimately complain and say new developers should use
 free/libre tools, but most of this code is legacy, and people are very
 strongly attached (often with good reason) to their old tools (often
 with no modern counterpart). Kinda unavoidable, I guess, so I don't
 want to suggest anything drastic.

 I don't know. Honestly, I almost hate to upload a patched binary of
 these in lieu of the official maintainer, but source patches are okay.
 But hey, if we have no other easy choice, I'll do it. (Advice
 welcome.)

 Well in this case, it wasn't a question of choice. To have KEYB faster at
first stage, I borrowed some from xKEYB, although KEYB is nowadays
basically pretty new. The resident code (and part of the transient code) is
pure assembler, and my idea was at some point to take it out to TASM (sigh!
maybe later to NASM or even to C) code that could be eventually linked to a
C transient area that could be compiled with an open source compiler. But
it is a big change. I started working on this without dropping TP7 on a
first stage, but the handling of the Segment registers is tricky, and
didn't put much time on it.

Another idea could be to try and port (as conditional compiles or as fork
KEYB3) the functionality to mKEYB and have it 100% in C: after all, you
just need to make it aware of the KeybCB's (the big part), and some other
minor functionalities:
- the int9x handler for pre-AT machines (is it worth?)
- override decimal character to layout
- int2f hook to be called by DISPLAY
- using it to just unhook/unload a previously loaded instance
- the safe mode for preventing keyb bombs...
...

Aitor
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Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Aitor Santamaría]

Hi Geraldo,

Not that much of a problem of licenses for myself, but for creating a
distributable developer machine :)

Thanks anyway!
Aitor



2014-03-01 2:07 GMT+01:00 Geraldo Netto geraldone...@gmail.com:

 Hi!

 Yep, you're right, vmware/virtualbox have a pretty much out-of-box setup
 But i do really enjoy qemu :)

 BTW, dunno if it helps but i have a licensed version of windows 98
 just the original manual with the serial number, lost the cd
 I can send it to you

 Also, for windows xp, maybe you could try the reactos
 http://www.reactos.org/
 an opensource implementation of windows based on wine


 See Ya!

 Geraldo Netto
 Sapere Aude = Non dvcor, dvco
 São Paulo, Brasil, -3gmt
 site: http://exdev.sf.net/


 On 28 February 2014 21:40, Aitor Santamaría aitor...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  The problem is that I'm not having as much spare time lately as I used to
  have.
  At this moment, I'm trying to recover a comfortable programming
 environment
  in a Win7 Laptop.
 
  But it's not so easy as it used to be since the 64-bit arrived
 everywhere,
  the 16-bit DOS programs no longer run natively, and I'm setting a virtual
  machine with a network link to my real harddrive. If only things were as
  easy as they used to be :(
 
  There's another idea lingering around (but that I won't be able to
 perform
  in a time soon), which is to create a virtual machine with DOS
 development
  software, that could maybe be made downloadable for whoever wants to
 develop
  for DOS. The problem here is picking the operating system that can route
  such network drive correctly, and on which you can comfortably multitask
  between the IDE, compiler, and a DOS to run tests (out of licensing
  problems, WinXP would be a nice choice :( ).
 
  Choosing the VM for a freely distributable manager is also a problem: in
 a
  remote past I used VMware, that worked fairly well. I have been
  experimenting with Bosch, QEmu, and VirtualBox, as I also wanted Linux
 VMs
  for such environments, and I was pretty unsuccessful with Bosch, somewhat
  successful with QEmu, but VirtualBox seemed to be doing pretty well.
 
  What's your own experience for virtual machines? ideas or suggestions?
 
  Aitor
 
 
 
 
  2012-08-11 10:06 GMT+02:00 Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com:
 
  Hi again,
 
  On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Tom Ehlert t...@drivesnapshot.de
 wrote:
  
   Surely a simple binary patch is possible in the meantime. I've not
   tested this (yet), but you could try this:
  
   upx -d keyb.exe
   hiew keyb.exe (or similar hex editor)
   offset 0x3E06 is mov bl, 0x41
   change offset 0x3E07 from 0x41 to 0x82
   run modified version for comparison (keyb.exe /blah ...)
  
   ok. this works much better.
   now when will we have FreeDOS 1.1.2 with this bug fixed ?
 
  Unless somebody else volunteers, it's probably? up to Bernd (no
  pressure!), so when it's done!   ;-)
 
  BTW, it's been almost two months since you first mentioned this, so I
  don't know what's up with Aitor, haven't heard from him. It's easy
  (maybe too easy!) to forget little fixes when no one shows much
  interest. I can only blindly guess that Aitor only has intermittent
  access to the Internet these days. Oh well, blame real life (tm), this
  isn't hugely urgent or important anyways.
 
  Anyways, I figured I'd go ahead and upload this patch (and the FD Edit
  one) to iBiblio for completeness. I mean, I don't know what else to
  do, any better ideas??
 
  http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/keyb/2.01/
  http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/edit/
 
 
 
 
 --
  Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified tool.
  Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer
  Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports.
  Network behavioral analysis  security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
 
 http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Tom Ehlert t...@drivesnapshot.de wrote:

 Surely a simple binary patch is possible in the meantime. I've not
 tested this (yet), but you could try this:

 upx -d keyb.exe
 hiew keyb.exe (or similar hex editor)
 offset 0x3E06 is mov bl, 0x41
 change offset 0x3E07 from 0x41 to 0x82
 run modified version for comparison (keyb.exe /blah ...)

 ok. this works much better.
 now when will we have FreeDOS 1.1.2 with this bug fixed ?

Unless somebody else volunteers, it's probably? up to Bernd (no
pressure!), so when it's done!   ;-)

BTW, it's been almost two months since you first mentioned this, so I
don't know what's up with Aitor, haven't heard from him. It's easy
(maybe too easy!) to forget little fixes when no one shows much
interest. I can only blindly guess that Aitor only has intermittent
access to the Internet these days. Oh well, blame real life (tm), this
isn't hugely urgent or important anyways.

Anyways, I figured I'd go ahead and upload this patch (and the FD Edit
one) to iBiblio for completeness. I mean, I don't know what else to
do, any better ideas??

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/keyb/2.01/
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/edit/

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Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Bernd Blaauw]

Op 11-8-2012 10:06, Rugxulo schreef:

 Anyways, I figured I'd go ahead and upload this patch (and the FD Edit
 one) to iBiblio for completeness. I mean, I don't know what else to
 do, any better ideas??

Patched binaries would work for me, and then either updated source or 
old source + diff/patchfile. Afterwards I'll download them then.

In other words: I've got no clue about setting up development 
environments and a decent workflow.
That likely also explains why I'm not that fond of tiny updates for 1.1 
but prefer stuff to go into 1.2 despite current 1.1 flaws in certain areas.

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[Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Tom Ehlert]

   KEYB.EXE 11,446 06-24-12

leaves, when running, a huge memory hole. at least with only HIMEM
loaded. note the HUGE memory hole behind KEYB

MEM /F shows


Segment   Size   Name Type
---   --  -
  027d 5936   DOS system data  
  027f  192FILES  data area
  028c 2688HIMEM  device driver
  0335  480FILES  data area
  0354  448LASTDRVdata area
  0371 2048STACKS data area
  03f1   96   free 
  03f8 3008   COMMAND program  
  04b5  144   free 
  04bf12032   DISPLAY program  
  07b0 1648   KEYBprogram  
  081836096   free 
  10e9 1328
  113d   582416   free 
  9f6f  256   COMMAND environment  

Memory TypeTotalUsedFree
     -
Conventional  638K 34K604K
Extended (XMS)  2,086,212K  2,053,445K 32,767K
     -

Largest executable program size  569K (   582,416 bytes)
FreeDOS is resident in the high memory area.


Tom


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Re: [Freedos-devel] KEYB BUG

[Eric Auer]

Hi Tom,

KEYB.EXE 11,446 06-24-12
 
 leaves, when running, a huge memory hole. at least with only HIMEM
 loaded. note the HUGE memory hole behind KEYB

As far as I remember, KEYB and DISPLAY did this
deliberately: Instead of reserving only a small
buffer statically and the rest dynamically, the
initial size is big enough for the worst case
and they then shrink if you use fewer concurrent
layouts or codepages than possible. I agree that
for UMB loading, a reasonable instead of max
default* would be nicer, at the risk of failure
to load when trying to use it with much data
but IMHO it is acceptable to work this around
by loading low or loading into UMB quite early.

Eric

* I mean the minimum heap allocation according
to the binary file headers, for example, which
are already set before (rather than at) runtime.

   03f8 3008   COMMAND program
   04b5  144   free
   04bf12032   DISPLAY program
   07b0 1648   KEYBprogram
   081836096   free
   10e9 1328
   113d   582416   free

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