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Re: [Freedos-user] Terribly slow versus RS232 interrupts
Hi :-) > - Sorry, somewhat new terms to me, need to study a bit... INVLPG seems > to be assembler command..? Anyway this machine is pentium, about 10years > old. I have GRUB dualboot FreeDOS/Slitaz 4.0 Not fast but everything > works (except Autocad issues..) Older Pentium may have limited performance in the "virtual" mode which all EMM386 style drivers use, but maybe you find some tuning options in the documentation of JEMMEX/JEMM386. As already mentioned, you can also try non-virtual EMS for special cases, but that or for example UMBPCI has hardware requirements which are less flexible than for EMM386 style. >Autocad manual states that EMS is supported. It is recommended > as CAD programs are memory hungry... If Autocad supports XMS as well, I would prefer that instead of EMS. Note that most EMM drivers also provide UMB, which let you load drivers outside the 640k of classic DOS memory. But if you only need more free space in the 640k, UMBPCI can be a good alternative. Also, FreeDOS drivers often use less DOS memory than old drivers from MS DOS time anyway :-) To get XMS, load XMGR, FreeDOS HIMEM or similar drivers. To get UMB, load any EMM driver or UMBPCI. Note that for HIMEM you can sometimes select "gate A20 methods" for tuning, but autodetection is usually fine. Of course you have to select a method which actually works. If not, you get crashes when HMA or XMS are first used, e.g. DOS=HIGH activates, FreeCOM command.com loads or disk cache or ramdisk drivers start up. If that happens, reboot and skip the XMS driver with F5/F8, then edit the options to select another A20 method. > - Thank you mentioning EMSMAGIC, I found information about it, > seems to be promising. Keep us informed :-) > - AutoCAD products were MSDOS programs of that era those days, (also > UNIX versions available), I used this version on DOS 6.?? at that time. > Requirements 286 and up. This version (AutoCAD R9, v2.7, > september -87) was the firs to need arithmetic unit mandatory. Interesting. Before 486dx, floating point units were expensive extras, so I would have assumed that AutoCAD also requires 386 or newer CPU. Because those also have 32 bit integer arithmetic built in, which is good even if you also have floating point. > - Native FreeDOS yes, I choose it on start (by GRUB) > - System information shows: Intel board D845GERG2 > Intel BIOS RG84510A.86A.0031.P16.0304111002 > Intel Pentium 4, 2.4GHz Pentium 4 is much more modern than Pentium, there should be no performance problem with EMM386 or JEMM style drivers... Maybe your BIOS is configured to support "legacy USB" methods to let DOS access USB keyboard or mouse without USB drivers? In that case, the BIOS can spend quite a lot of time to deal with the USB controller. Try using USB keyboard and mouse. To be on the safe side, leave the legacy USB support on anyway, it will not waste much time if no devices are active and you may need it to navigate the BIOS CMOS setup config dialog :-) > - I tried to "open" ACAD.EXE by Leafpad editor to see some cleartext. > The file started so obviously MZ...?, as expected? Yes. It may also have some messages about Windows a bit later in the file - then it could also support running directly as Windows program. > - No DOS extender, just JEMMEX, to me to know. I am not sure if > I understand the difference. AutoCAD will probably use some library to make efficient use of extra memory. However, if it is really 286 compatible, it will not be a very heavy user of modern CPU features. A DOS extender normally lets DOS programs run as "protected mode" tasks and helps them to communicate with DOS itself, which runs in real or "virtual" but not in "protected" mode. This of course has an overhead which can cause interrupt delays. The advantage is that protected mode tasks can directly use many megabytes of RAM without having to request access each time. With EMS, the access is managed by making small pieces of RAM visible in the first megabyte of (DOS) RAM, while in the XMS case, the XMS driver copies blocks of data around on request. In both cases, without a DOS extender or other ways to use protected mode, the program itself (e.g. AutoCAD) is running in the first one megabyte of memory... > * > For now I am searching a solution to strange speed dependency of serial > * port > * > data flow. Responce to many commands are extremely slow unless I > * > "refresh" the computer by RS232 output (input to computer) by rubbing > * > the surfce of tablet with digitizer pen. Program acceleration is > * > readily seen according to swipe velocity of pen. When sweeping the > * > tablet surface it sends position data to serial port maybe max. some > * > hundreds of points per second. Beyond certain speed the program does > * > not accelerate any further, that may be limited by tablet. (Kurta > * > IS/ONE). For that, you can probably check documentation of AutoCAD, tablet and drivers - maybe acceleration and sensitivity c
Re: [Freedos-user] Terribly slow versus RS232 interrupts
Lainaus Rugxulo : * Hi, * * On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 10:44 AM, wrote: * > * > After a long pause (since late 90:eens) I started again * > with Autocad. R9 for DOS which I consider the best ever made * > in 2D/2.5D CAD. (that is mainly explained by excellent * > digitizer tablet use) * > Shortly... it works. JEMM386 was needed, without it * > Autocad was somewhat unreliable, it crashed often, no data * > loss thought. * * You said JEMMEX was used. (But you can probably do without NOINVLPG * NOVME unless literally using an old 386.) Are you sure you need EMM386 * (or EMS) at all? You could try a different EMS provider like EMSMAGIC * or such. - Sorry, somewhat new terms to me, need to study a bit... INVLPG seems to be assembler command..? Anyway this machine is pentium, about 10years old. I have GRUB dualboot FreeDOS/Slitaz 4.0 Not fast but everything works (except Autocad issues..) Autocad manual states that EMS is supported. It is recommended as CAD programs are memory hungry. (when it comes to those ancient machines of 80eens/90eens, DOS 64k was a limitation even to this 2D cad. Of course amount of memory itself is no more an issue) - Thank you mentioning EMSMAGIC, I found information about it, seems to be promising. * > Most problems was solved, one by one, and the first * > PCB-layouts are now accomplished by using my component libraries, * > just to mention some. And yes, general CAD do have some advantages * > over dedicated PCB-CADs on limited designs. * > Some weird behaviour still causes troubles and I'll report * > them as my experience increases to better define these. * * Dare I ask, but what are the hardware / software requirements for this * particular version of AutoCAD? EMS? 286? And what exact machine * (family / model / stepping) are you using? Booting native FreeDOS, * right? No emulators, hypervisors, virtualization, simulation, etc., * right? - AutoCAD products were MSDOS programs of that era those days, (also UNIX versions available), I used this version on DOS 6.?? at that time. Requirements 286 and up. This version (AutoCAD R9, v2.7, september -87) was the firs to need arithmetic unit mandatory. - Native FreeDOS yes, I choose it on start (by GRUB) - System information shows: Intel board D845GERG2 Intel BIOS RG84510A.86A.0031.P16.0304111002 Intel Pentium 4, 2.4GHz * If you know what kind of .EXE this is (MZ, NE, LE, LX, PE), that might * prove interesting too. Though more specifically, does it use any kind * of (internal or external) DOS extender like DOS4GW.EXE or similar? - I tried to "open" ACAD.EXE by Leafpad editor to see some cleartext. The file started so obviously MZ...?, as expected? - No DOS extender, just JEMMEX, to me to know. I am not sure if I understand the difference. * > For now I am searching a solution to strange speed dependency of serial * port * > data flow. Responce to many commands are extremely slow unless I * > "refresh" the computer by RS232 output (input to computer) by rubbing * > the surfce of tablet with digitizer pen. Program acceleration is * > readily seen according to swipe velocity of pen. When sweeping the * > tablet surface it sends position data to serial port maybe max. some * > hundreds of points per second. Beyond certain speed the program does * > not accelerate any further, that may be limited by tablet. (Kurta * > IS/ONE). * * Maybe this is due to EMM386 (slow I/O port accesses), which is another * reason to try (real mode TSR) EMSMAGIC. * * > Even at its fastest the speed is still quite low to expectation * > of that of Pentium prosessor. Clearly slower of what it was at 90:eens * > when I used it by 33MHz 486 prosessor (on MS-DOS) * * If it's really slower than a 486, that's very bad. I have no idea why * it would do that. Perhaps it's a conflict with some other TSR you * loaded later on, dunno. It could even be something about the BIOS. - On AUTOEXEC.BAT I load KURTA PENSMITH driver for digitizer tablet. That might be TSR, I try to find out. I need it but maybe could try experimenting with mouse pointer, just to know what happens. - FYI, when I need openGEM I usually load mouse driver which seems to replace digitizer driver and mouse begin to work. Then, when entering Autocad its batch file loads digitizer driver again without causing conflict. Maybe this tells something... to somebody...? * > In general it seems that those commands suffering of slow speed * > are mostly those related to display calculations (REGEN.. floating point, * > badly and REDRAW... integer, slightly) and also printing (print vector * > calculation, Autocad displays it progress, easy to observe) * * I doubt floating point has anything to do with it unless you don't * have an FPU, which is unlikely. - You right there, since 486DX I didn,t need FPU any more. Display REGENeration is one of most "CPU demanding" task so it is just obvious to show speed limitation first there. * > P.S. If any of you are interested my
