Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 04:28:45PM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Of course there might be a few games which do use > acceleration features of the card, but for my first > PCI card, it was only the game which came bundled > with it :-) It actually depends on requirements; to me for most cases that (long gone) ISA Tseng would be "fast enough" - while I agree most probably I could have faster graphics using cheap Riva 128 on PCI/AGP (if I had such kind of slots in that 386 machine). Still for most "use cases" of DOS ISA will do. When having high requirements regarding efficiency of graphics system one has to use modern Windows-based system fitted with expensive NVidia accelerator, for instance. Which DOS system can beat it? When using DOS, I simply don't insist on having that many texels per second so much, you know. ;) Even more: it became kind of art to squeeze out of that old gear the things that seemed impossible "back in the day": https://trixter.oldskool.org/2014/06/20/8088-domination-post-mortem-conclusion/ -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
Hi! > Of course PCI bus is much faster, still even 16-bit ISA cards, if one uses > good quality graphics adaptor, is "fast enough" for DOS applications. Not really. DOS does not normally use the acceleration of "good quality". For example I once tried fractals on a 75 MHz computer and found out that using an ISA graphics card that I had around made the fractals much slower than what the, not very fast either, CPU would have managed ;-) Doom on a 386 or slow 486 with good 16 bit ISA graphics would have equaly fast VGA and CPU, but if your CPU is a good 486 or even Pentium style, the ISA VGA would be the bottleneck. Of course there might be a few games which do use acceleration features of the card, but for my first PCI card, it was only the game which came bundled with it :-) Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 10:11:33AM +0200, Eric Auer wrote: > Is that with EMM386 NOEMS option? I expect EMS 3.2 to > be rarely necessary and with NOEMS you can still use > EMS 4.0 which people often forget. With 64k extra UMB. I didn't write down the particular results and conditions - just noted the general rule: using more modern motherboards one gets 2-3 times less UMB (in the same conditions). > I would really recommend a PCI or PCIe graphics card > for DOS, at least AGP. Very few DOS applications know > how to use acceleration and ISA is REALLY slow in data > transfer. So the faster transfer of PCI etc. really > helps most DOS games. Also, VESA VBE BIOS is nice :-) Of course PCI bus is much faster, still even 16-bit ISA cards, if one uses good quality graphics adaptor, is "fast enough" for DOS applications. Recall that "landmark" in 3D gaming - "Ultima Underworld"? I remember that "back in the day" I was playing it on my 386DX40 fitted with that mentioned Tseng ET4000, and that graphics was smooth. "Wing Commander" on the same gear was unplayable, because it was... much too fast. In general if you mean these modern 3D games that indeed do require very fast graphics system, it is rather realm of Windows, not DOS. But for all these "Duke Nuke'm", "Doom", "Wolfenstein" etc. PCI-less machine will do. Of course combined ISA/PCI board won't hurt, since PCI/AGP graphics adaptors are not just faster, but (first of all) easier to get and much cheaper than ISA cards. > PS: Very interesting that your floppy controller from > the other thread DOES support two drives in Linux, but > not in DOS, as a possible BIOS issue. Yes, I filed a "bugreport" to ASRock a few days ago, but no response so far -- regards, Zbigniew ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] New to DOS - 486
Hi! > - the newer the mobo, the more likely it can use some part of "conventional > memory" (first 640 KB) for its own purposes, like my ASRock mentioned in > that other thread For example for SATA controllers or USB. > - the newer the motherboard, the more likely it'll offer less and less UMB, > and I mean _really less_; my old VLB Soyo (SiS) mobo reports over 138 KB > of UMB, while motherboard featuring Athlon64 offers only about 30 KB UMB Is that with EMM386 NOEMS option? I expect EMS 3.2 to be rarely necessary and with NOEMS you can still use EMS 4.0 which people often forget. With 64k extra UMB. I would really recommend a PCI or PCIe graphics card for DOS, at least AGP. Very few DOS applications know how to use acceleration and ISA is REALLY slow in data transfer. So the faster transfer of PCI etc. really helps most DOS games. Also, VESA VBE BIOS is nice :-) Regards, Eric PS: Very interesting that your floppy controller from the other thread DOES support two drives in Linux, but not in DOS, as a possible BIOS issue. >> [..] >> PS: Since I no longer use a mainboard which remembers ISA, >> maybe *somebody else* would like to play with my collection >> of special PCI soundcards which claim to support DOS games? > > Have a look at the thread "Using Yamaha the YMF744 under DOS without > legacy/ISA addressing": > > https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=61256 > > The thing looks cumbersome and somewhat complicated, but still (in many > cases, even if not always) feasible ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
