[Freedos-user] DSMI for DOS - Source Code available
Just as FYI Some years ago the author of DSMI released the source code of it on Github. https://github.com/ochrons/dsmi "*Digital Sound and Music Interface *is a fully digital audio interface for games and multimedia programs. It provides a unified interface for both music and sound effects, mixing them together seamlessly. DSMI API has both low and high level interfaces for total control over the system as well as ease of use." " It is, as its name states, a library for producing music and sound effects in (DOS) applications. Back in the day it was licensed to several commercial games, most notably Disney's Lion King and Aladdin PC games." It was also used on Dual Module Player application (DMP). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ejD9YstfY Regards -- Martín Itúrbide http://www.os2world.com mar...@os2world.com martiniturb...@gmail.com Quito - Ecuador ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Bryan Kilgallin composed on 2021-04-19 09:51 (UTC+1000): >> I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by >> emulation. I >> don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers >> due >> to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulation available if >> spending a bit more than bottom of the line. > You use a Brother laser printer. So why do you need Epson ink-jet > capability? Ralf provided a technically correct answer. I don't know that the DOS software I use ever supported any inkjet printers. I was still exclusively using Epson compatible dot matrix when the DOS software I still use was discontinued without upgrade path. All my spreadsheet macros assume Epson. I bought an inkjet once. The ink disappeared before I could print 40 pages from the automatic self head cleaning that failed to clean enough to have all 4 colors working. They are a terrible choice for anyone like me who rarely prints anything. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
On 4/18/2021 4:51 PM, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: Felix: I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by emulation. I don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers due to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulation available if spending a bit more than bottom of the line. You use a Brother laser printer. So why do you need Epson ink-jet capability? He wants Epson printer language capability (ESC/P, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESC/P) and he wants a laser printer. As Epson doesn't produce laser printers, he has to use another manufacturer and apparently the Brother model that he is using does support ESC/P Ralf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Felix: I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by emulation. I don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers due to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulation available if spending a bit more than bottom of the line. You use a Brother laser printer. So why do you need Epson ink-jet capability? -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Eric Auer composed on 2021-04-18 12:27 (UTC+0200): > But as said, I am optimistic: CPU power is cheap today and it is, > still or again, a quality feature of printers to speak PS or PDF. I define printer quality by whether it includes Epson directly or by emulation. I don't buy Epson, because it only makes inkjet printers. I buy Brother lasers due to speed, to decent Linux support, and to Epson FX-850 emulation available if spending a bit more than bottom of the line. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
On 4/18/2021 8:29 AM, Thomas Desi wrote: • I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 version (image). All of them just stopped in telling me “packages not found”. (For whatever reason. I gave up after some googleing and saw other people had encountered similar problems and said it is the BIOS and this and that... I stopped trying. It just takes too much time without a clear reason, what to do, uncertain result. - (Note: I tried on a “MSI” laptop, a Samsung “Netbook”, and an ITX Minicomputer) // I finally accomplished to install it on the ITX via USB stick (with the freedos1.2.img) on it. However, “fdimples” still is an enigma to me… it’s not available on that .img by calling it as a command. But I don’t think I need it. As I mentioned before, this might be an issue in initial installer, which might be hard to test in all possible combinations/scenarios with the rather small number of active people on the project. But there would be ways around it... • The USB “Problem”: has been discussed in the mailing list recently. Honestly I don’t consider it an advantage to FreeDos having to boot a linux system just to get to my DOS-.txt-files from the harddisk… (My ITX / Bios/Freedos lets me transfer files to/fro USB Stick when booted from stick. This is ok, so I can work with it, as startup time is very short. A couple of seconds only. But booting from C: should recognize a USB-Stick present at booting and be read/writeable. Easier said than done. USB is a rather fickle beast which is much more complicated as people (specially plain users) seem generally understand. USB didn't really come out after DOS was declared as "End of Life" by Microsoft and that was the starting point in time for FreeDOS. And for an OS that is declared to be dying soon, you will find very little support from mainstream manufacturers to write supporting drivers for this. Specially as (Free)DOS doesn't really have a concept of "drivers", that always has been something for applications to deal with... • Printing is still waiting -- haven’t had time to fiddle with that. It just didn’t work out of the box with my editors (LaserJet & Centronics cable). I have no hopes to make it work, really… maybe “someday”... What kind of "LaserJet"? If it is a real one (not one of those "WinLasers" like HP-5L or HP-2020 or such), it should "just work". If it is a "WinLaser", well, then you are SOL, as in that case, it is the OS (Windows/macOS/Linux) that is doing all the heavy lifting of generating the printing data and the printer itself is rather "stupid" and just puts pixel on the paper as it is told by the OS. There simply is no way to do that in DOS... • Codepage (UTF-8 support? Maybe not possible without a converter program? »Boček« Editor can save in UTF mode in DOS.) Once again, UTF-8 is something that came out well after the age of DOS. There will never be UTF-8 support in DOS itself (there were a lot of hoops to jump through to get double-byte character sets like for Japanese or Chinese supported in a meaningful way), so again, it is up to an application to have knowledge about this... • Whilst trying to make it work for my needs I get the feeling there is much discussion about technical (historical?) details, which might be of interest to some specialists. I get the idea that DOS (“Disk Operating System”) is a sealed book for the initiated and not for ordinary people. This doesn’t comfort me if I just want to save my files to a usb stick or print out on paper a letter, feeling completely stupid after years and years of computer use on all platforms. But, I am not a »coder« or tech. No, not a "sealed book for the initiated", but a lot of people, like you, who have been using newer OS in the last 20+ years just don't seem to be able to easily put themselves back into a time and place where a lot of technology that people take for granted today simply didn't exist or was in its infancy. 6. Final thoughts “We” (me, user-people) see a computer as an omnipresent “all-purpose” thing. The industry makes us believe that is has to be fun, easy to use, performative, stylish, multi-user, password-protected, videoconference-abled, netflixed, youtubed, musiced, telephoneed, typewritered, medical diagnosis machineed, internet deviced, and rocketed flying you to Mars … there is no end. Obviously this leads to the gigantomastia 12GB of Windows ed.al. and the daily update-itis. Size doesn’t matter much today, but it is overkill and a complete mess to a single person, also regarding privacy… Let’s not go into this here. As I stated above, a lot of people take a lot of those things for granted these days, and then get all upset when being told "Sorry, that doesn't (easily) work (this way) in DOS". FreeDos, on the other hand, could be a surprisingly worthy alternative for those who have only basic needs in computing - or very
Re: [Freedos-user] Dual Boot FreeDOS + WINDOWS ?
Hi Thomas, > A dual boot Windows+FreeDos would be absolutely my preferred system... Can your Windows version resize itself? Can it create a FAT partition for DOS in some other way? Then I think you should do that, maybe already copy the contents of the DOS install disk there and boot the DOS installer. In the installer, you can now skip the step of partitioning and formatting the harddisk and just tell it to use the FAT partition as install target. If your Windows itself uses NTFS partitions, the FAT partition will be the only one visible to DOS and it will be used as C: by DOS after install. It might have another drive letter during install if C: is already used by the install CD or USB stick, of course. Obviously, you should only use a Windows version of which you have a license. If that is not the case, it probably is not worth the effort to install ANY Windows at all. You can just dual-boot with DOS and Linux then and let your Windows apps run in Wine on Linux. If you want a dual-boot system with Windows and Linux, the same strategy as above should work: Use Linux to resize itself, or maybe easier, tell it to create a FAT partition for DOS already while you install Linux. Then boot the DOS install disk (CD, DVD or USB stick) and tell the installer to use that FAT parttiion, without FDISK changing partitions and without formatting. I have no idea what XP embedded can do or cannot do, but when in doubt, it probably can do a lot less than Linux, because it sounds like a stripped-down version of XP and XP is very old. Regards, Eric PS: The FAT partition for DOS should be a LBA partition and it must be a primary (not extended / logical) partition, because it is complicated to configure DOS to boot properly otherwise. You need to keep that in mind when making / resizing partitions, but it should be quite feasible with GPARTED in Linux or maybe with built-in or 3rd party tools of more modern Windows versions. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
On 4/18/2021 9:27 AM, Eric Auer wrote: Hi! I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 version (image). There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages in terms of drive letters and 2. whether you can partition the disk to create a primary LBA FAT partition, format it and make it bootable. I am pretty sure that he ran into the very same issue that I mentioned on our last online meeting, which seems to me more like a logical error (on real iron rather than a VM). I just didn't get the time to come up with either a fix or an alternative installed (at least up to the point where FDIMPLES somes into play)... Ralf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
On 4/18/2021 8:05 AM, Marcolino Zona wrote: Well, i understand. In that case, do you have any linux distribution suggestions for this low-end CPU and GPU??? I have used on a fairly similar older HP laptop a distro called Q4OS https://q4os.org/ Ralf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On 4/18/2021 4:58 AM, Liam Proven wrote: The next impolite email I receive from you will result in a block. Ditto for Ehlert. This will not inconvenience you, but unless you actively like attacking strangers on the internet who are trying to offer help, guidance and advice free of charge, _modify your tone_. Well, maybe you should live what you are preaching... Ralf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Dual Boot FreeDOS + WINDOWS ?
Hi Eric, thanks for the great reply (again!) Yes, indeed, this sounds very interesting: (and maybe also to other folks, to work with, try or get to know FreeDOS.) > On Sun,20210418- week15, at 21:01, Eric Auer wrote: > > So depending on how much you want > it, we could write some howto about how to create a dual > boot system with Linux (or Windows) A dual boot Windows+FreeDos would be absolutely my preferred system for some reasons. (I guess I could access files created on FreeDOS applications also from Windows. Excellent!) I am ready to start right away to reformat the HD if I could boot DOS or WIN!… (The only question for me, what Windows to use… and where to get it. Another one of those silly questions! Sorry… but windows is everywhere and nowhere) I have another HP »thin client« (from 2007) with "XP embedded" installed (no hd, only flash memory inside). I wonder if »XP embedded« could be used? (MS offers a free download https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26558). Is this usable? Best regards, looking fwd what’s coming next, - Thomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
> On Apr 18, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > [..] > I am looking forward to Jerome's next update with a tuned > driver strategy. FDISK would not help with that. RC4 is coming very very soon. The new RBE is done. Currently, testing and fixing minor issues with release media builds that were caused by me changing stuff. Things like—Oh, since it builds the boot disk image from a package list and not based on tweaking some other disk image. I needed to add the HIMEM package to the list and rebuild the release. Just a bunch of little fiddly bits. :-) > I agree that there should be documentation about how the > install process works which can help you to push it a bit > when it gets stuck at some point. Of course the documents > should be available online, also outside the install disk. Better documentation would be nice. But, I’ve only got so much spare time. :-) On the bright side… It says “packages not found.” Instead of those wonderful modern error messages like “iTunes Store Error (-232342)” or those good old DOS errors like “runtime error 204 at 31fa:1100” I always found those so very informative. not. :-) > [..] > You are of course right that creating a dual boot system > is tricky. In particular, it is not something the FreeDOS > installer can do for you. So depending on how much you want > it, we could write some howto about how to create a dual > boot system with Linux (or Windows) or even a triple boot, > using tools for Linux or Windows. DOS tools are not enough > to do dual boot with anything without the help of the Linux > or Windows system itself. So you have to use their tools. Like when installing Windows... By default, the installer configures the system to boot FreeDOS. Leaving other operating systems not very accessible. It does make backup copies of the MBR. So, a knowledgeable user could possibly use those to restore booting to the previous OS. However, that is still risky, complicated and I don’t really recommend doing that. If a user intends to install on real hardware, has a prior OS they want to keep and intends on multi-boot, they should not run the installer in default mode. They should run it in advanced mode. (quit, and restart the installer with “setup adv”) Or, switch from default to advanced mode by pressing CTRL+C when the installer is waiting for user input. In advanced mode, things like selecting the target drive and install path, overwriting the boot loader, transferring system files and other options are available. In advanced mode, the installer pre-selects the settings it would make for you. However, you can change them if needed. :-) Jerome ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Hi Thomas, indeed A: and B: are reserved for floppy drives. The rest is for partitions found at boot and after that, drives accessed by drivers can be added. So if you do not see the USB stick after booting from harddisk, it probably just means that the USB driver does not work. As said, it can help to boot from USB to get BIOS-assisted USB stick access. If I understand the mails correctly, not finding packages during install is caused by unsuccesfully switching from BIOS-assisted to DOS-only CD/DVD drivers at some point, so I am looking forward to Jerome's next update with a tuned driver strategy. FDISK would not help with that. I agree that there should be documentation about how the install process works which can help you to push it a bit when it gets stuck at some point. Of course the documents should be available online, also outside the install disk. > I could even take a photo from the screen instructions... It is probably better to just look at the steps in a browser on another PC or in the smartphone instead of having to use a photo of the instructions. You are of course right that creating a dual boot system is tricky. In particular, it is not something the FreeDOS installer can do for you. So depending on how much you want it, we could write some howto about how to create a dual boot system with Linux (or Windows) or even a triple boot, using tools for Linux or Windows. DOS tools are not enough to do dual boot with anything without the help of the Linux or Windows system itself. So you have to use their tools. Keep me posted about your USB driver adventures :-) Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Hi Eric, thanks for the in-depth responses! Drive letters: > On Sun,20210418- week15, at 18:27, Eric Auer wrote: > > There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages > in terms of drive letters Yes, this was the problem. However, I don’t know anything technical about all this, but I remember: A: B: used to be floppy drives (I have none inbuilt in my itx, and haven't seen inbuilt floppy drives for a while...) C: to me is known as the main drive (windows...!) D: showed as another USB stick (if present) When I booted from the USB-CDrom drive (with the freedos image on it), it has no letter assigned (right? - I think FreeDOS even prints it) —> couldn’t a letter be assigned by the »system« itself or (better?): why would it need a letter at all (?excuse my illiteracy on all of this, just guessing wildly), can’t the installer reference to its »own location« and find the packages which are all just next to the installer on the same disc? And … if the installer tells me bluntly »packages not found« - this doesn’t help me as a user at all. Instead, if that instruction message would say: »Go back to DOS and type »fdisk«" (or whatever command it needs, like a very short how-to-do instruction,) - or BETTER give a hint to a helpful »readme.txt« on the installer CDrom what to do if something goes wrong with the drive letters and it can’t find the packages, next in order to install FreeDOS … I could have helped myself out of it. I could even take a photo from the screen instructions with my Smartphone and follow the steps if they are to long to memorize, or copy on paper the commands. Better than nothing! (Excuses for my naivité!) This is what I ment by saying »for the initiated« : once you KNOW, it seems hard to understand how another person can't do it… (I just rewatched Jim Halls video https://youtu.be/On5eZdDGsCo on this, which gives a good intro, but only if the packages are found… :D - also the resizing of the partition to 240MB isn’t a widespread knowledge...) I don’t cosider formatting and partitioning a hd a trivial thing to do, especially given the presence of another OS. (And if there is a »dual boot« , i.e. I could choose to re-activate the other OS.) – By the way, on my ITX was a Windows 7 professionel installed which I finally (willfully?) erased installing FreeDOS from the USB image. That is ok so far, unless I don’t want the Win7 back Thank you for the instructions, Eric, to have a better USB approach. Bret Johnson responded helpfully how USB on DOS could work, too. - Regards, Thomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Hello Jerome, > Without functioning support for the the CD/DVD drive, the CD should > still boot. That is not handled by a CD/DVD driver in FreeDOS. This gives you at least two possibilities: 1. Use the ELTORITO driver for BIOS-assisted access to the CD/DVD drive. It only works after booting from the CD, but that is perfect for installation purposes and has been used in most older DOS ISO. 2. Make the bootable disk image on the CD of "harddisk" type, so it contains the entire set of files needed for installation. As far as I remember, this is what our USB boot image already does. The disadvantage of 1. is that people might be disappointed that CD/DVD access works while installing but not for the installed DOS itself when you later boot from the harddisk or SSD of your computer. The disadvantage of 2. is that it is annoying to have all files wrapped inside another layer of packaging, the disk image. When the boot CD only has a minimal bootable floppy image and all the other files are in plain view on the ISO9660 part of the CD/DVD, it is easier for people to help themselves to some files which they would like to access at other moments, beyond installation. Also, 2. requires you to have enough RAM to fit the entire virtual install disk in RAM, which makes the combination of a "full" install CD/DVD with many packages and an "old" PC with less than 100 MB of RAM problematic. But for those, you can still provide classic-style install CD/DVD instead which have improved chances to find CD/DVD drivers for THAT hardware. > It is handled through the system BIOS and (depending on which CD) > also SYSLINUX/MEMDISK. Once the CD has booted, the installer... ...can always access at least the MEMDISK part. So by moving all package files into the image, you can make sure that you always have access to the files while installing. Solution 2 suggested above. But with the mentioned caveats. I personally recommend solution 1, as that has apparently worked okay for a number of our older distro releases: ELTORITO.SYS :-) > I am not aware of any utilities to support such things under FreeDOS. About GPT: It would be sufficient if the kernel supports it to be able to deal with FAT partitions on GPT disks. Of course you would also want a GPT-aware FDISK at some point and probably GPT-aware USB drivers, but most utilities in DOS do not even know about the existence of the concept of partitions at all, so they would not care which style of partitions you use :-) > RC4 is only days away. It uses a different method when attempting > to initialize the CD/DVD ROM. It will attempt using several drivers. Cool :-) Thanks! Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Hello, > On Apr 18, 2021, at 12:27 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > > > Hi! > >> I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or >> 1.2 version (image). > > There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages > in terms of drive letters and 2. whether you can partition the disk > to create a primary LBA FAT partition, format it and make it bootable. The installer does not care what drive letter has the packages. It checks all possible drive letters in an attempt to locate the packages needed for installation. > > >> a working install ( I still have no idea what I did wrong that Freedos >> 1.3. live, and Freedos 1.2 standard CDs never worked for me > > Even that is a bit complicated. DOS used to be rather "manual" in both > use and install. So I would be okay with getting dropped to a prompt on > booting from CD or USB and then having to use FDISK, FORMAT, SYS, COPY > and similar commands to kick DOS to a built-in harddisk, SSD or eMMC. > > Understandably, the installer tries to make that easier, but fails to > cover enough possible situations in which it could end up. For example, > Linux installers are able to find and resize existing Windows installs > on MBR or GPT partitioned disks to share your computer between Windows > and Linux without breaking the existing Windows. The installer simply > asks whether it should keep or delete Windows and everything else will > happen automatically. That would be way beyond the abilities of FreeDOS. This does not appear to be related to his problem installing 1.2 or 1.3-RC4. He said … >> • I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD >> 1.3” or 1.2 version (image). All of them just stopped in telling me >> “packages not found”. There is only one reason for that message. The installer could not locate the packages. That primarily happens when the CD/DVD driver was unable to initialize the CD/DVD-ROM drive for whatever reason. Without functioning support for the the CD/DVD drive, the CD should still boot. That is not handled by a CD/DVD driver in FreeDOS. It is handled through the system BIOS and (depending on which CD) also SYSLINUX/MEMDISK. Once the CD has booted, the installer should be able to partition and format the hard drive. However, the installer requires access to the remainder of the CD-ROM to install the packages. So, It can proceed no further than those steps without the CD/DVD driver supporting them. Also… Things like resizing partitions and GPT support aren’t actually an issue with the installer. I am not aware of any utilities to support such things under FreeDOS. If and when they become available, they might be added to the list of utilities employed by the installer to include such functionality during the install process. On a side note… RC4 is only days away. It uses a different method when attempting to initialize the CD/DVD ROM. It will attempt using several drivers. RC4 also includes the Floppy Edition. The Floppy Edition uses a completely different installer and does not require CD/DVD support. Jerome ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Hi! > I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 > version (image). There are two problems: 1. where the installer expects the packages in terms of drive letters and 2. whether you can partition the disk to create a primary LBA FAT partition, format it and make it bootable. Assuming that DOS is reasonably simple, you could do things manually when the installer fails to do them automatically, so the second one is the more interesting question. There are FDISK and XFDISK and other tools, in various versions. Recently, there was a discussion in the BTTR DOS forum which resulted in fixing some FDISK bugs, but I do not know whether FreeDOS 1.2 or 1.3 already has the corresponding update? You could also use Linux with GPARTED to comfortably do partitioning. > The USB “Problem”: has been discussed in the mailing list recently. > Honestly I don’t consider it an advantage to FreeDos having to boot > a linux system just to get to my DOS-.txt-files from the harddisk In theory, you can often gain access to USB sticks in DOS context by booting from that stick itself. Because some extra BIOS support will be active in that context. Required tools: A bootable DOS on a stick. Not sure how far your attempts in that direction have gone so far? > Printing is still waiting -- haven’t had time to fiddle with that. > It just didn’t work out of the box with my editors (LaserJet & Centronics Such printers do have a tendency to still understand plain text, but you could try whether something like "COPY testfile.ps LPT1" (or the same with a PDF) works for your printer. If yes, you can reduce the problem to having to convert your text to PS or PDF first, which can be done with suitable DOS apps. > Codepage (UTF-8 support? Maybe not possible without a converter program? > »Boček« Editor can save in UTF mode in DOS.) As you already saw, DOS normally only supports 256 character codepages. There are tricks for 512 characters on VGA, but everything above that requires graphics mode which text editors for DOS rarely use. You will have noticed that Blocek indeed uses graphics mode :-) Of course it is a bit annoying when you have German Unicode text which actually uses less than 256 different characters and most DOS apps still fail to display it properly. This is because they all assume that each character is exactly 1 byte "long". As work-around, you can convert the files back and forth before and after editing or viewing: Tools such as RECODE have been ported to DOS. Also, drivers for long file names in DOS have various codepage settings which help you with non-ASCII file names. > Whilst trying to make it work for my needs I get the feeling there is > much discussion about technical (historical?) details, which might be > of interest to some specialists. Yeah but it depends on the mood of the community at specific times :-) > I get the idea that DOS (“Disk Operating System”) is a sealed book for > the initiated and not for ordinary people. This doesn’t comfort me... The nice thing about DOS is that it HAS been very popular decades ago, so you can still find tutorials for many things online. Of course you can also ask here explicitly, but notice how I got criticized this week for explaining something which is considered to be "too well known" so you need some patience and explicitly state your needs until you get the replies adjusted to your preferred knowledge level :-) > if I just want to save my files to a usb stick or print out on paper > a letter, feeling completely stupid after years and years... The stupid part is not you. The problem is that neither USB nor the current generation of printers have existed when DOS was young, so we all have to use creative solutions on modern systems for things in DOS which may look simple for Windows 10 or a modern Linux. That is the downside of keeping DOS deliberately simple and less PnP etc. For example I remember installing a very old Linux 2.0 on a PC with only 16 MB RAM, some of which was shared with the graphics. It worked reasonably back then but would find neither USB nor LAN on a 2021 PC. Also, I think that so far my hardware failures have been limited to a graphics card, power supply, CPU fan and some disks. Luckily, all failures have stayed limited to the respective component and even in the disk cases, thanks to SMART (even DOS apps available for that) I was able to replace the disks before larger amounts of data got lost. > what you CAN’T do with it. (See the questions about sound, viewers, video, > graphics) That is a bit complicated. If you have one app which plays video with sound on modern hardware at high resolution, you could say you CAN do that. But basically all old games will be the same old low resolution as in the past and, having no ISA sound card any more, limited to the PC speaker/beeper unless you use creative solutions or run DOS inside something else which in turn does have drivers for your modern sound. > a
[Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
FreeDOS for Dummies? (NB. This is a short sum-up of my (brief) encounter and experience with FreeDos, as from a user perspective (in contrast to a “tech” person, like a programer or computer technician etc. I like to continue my experience.) 1. I always had a prejudice against MS-DOS because of “M$” or/and because I thought it is a system with too few commands, compared to the UNIX set. - And, obviously I considered it completely obsolete. 2. This said I wouldn’t have tried it or installed it without a certain editor in mind I discovered was for DOS, but not working in the Command-line app (neither in Win10,WinXp, Win7). This is where FreeDos came in. 3. I was surprised that FreeDos was not “abandon-ware” (!) but actively developed and maintained and has a Mailing-List. Which is active. I came in, when the “Stallman-flame-war” was heating up… Anyway, I have since had good and helpful replies from many people who have a great knowledge of intricate technical questions. 4. Some downsides, so far: • I never managed to install Freedos on a harddisk via the “live CD 1.3” or 1.2 version (image). All of them just stopped in telling me “packages not found”. (For whatever reason. I gave up after some googleing and saw other people had encountered similar problems and said it is the BIOS and this and that... I stopped trying. It just takes too much time without a clear reason, what to do, uncertain result. - (Note: I tried on a “MSI” laptop, a Samsung “Netbook”, and an ITX Minicomputer) // I finally accomplished to install it on the ITX via USB stick (with the freedos1.2.img) on it. However, “fdimples” still is an enigma to me… it’s not available on that .img by calling it as a command. But I don’t think I need it. • The USB “Problem”: has been discussed in the mailing list recently. Honestly I don’t consider it an advantage to FreeDos having to boot a linux system just to get to my DOS-.txt-files from the harddisk… (My ITX / Bios/Freedos lets me transfer files to/fro USB Stick when booted from stick. This is ok, so I can work with it, as startup time is very short. A couple of seconds only. But booting from C: should recognize a USB-Stick present at booting and be read/writeable. • Printing is still waiting -- haven’t had time to fiddle with that. It just didn’t work out of the box with my editors (LaserJet & Centronics cable). I have no hopes to make it work, really… maybe “someday”... • Codepage (UTF-8 support? Maybe not possible without a converter program? »Boček« Editor can save in UTF mode in DOS.) • Whilst trying to make it work for my needs I get the feeling there is much discussion about technical (historical?) details, which might be of interest to some specialists. I get the idea that DOS (“Disk Operating System”) is a sealed book for the initiated and not for ordinary people. This doesn’t comfort me if I just want to save my files to a usb stick or print out on paper a letter, feeling completely stupid after years and years of computer use on all platforms. But, I am not a »coder« or tech. 5. Advantages IMHO: All what has been said in the “Why do you use DOS?”-thread - and more! 6. Final thoughts “We” (me, user-people) see a computer as an omnipresent “all-purpose” thing. The industry makes us believe that is has to be fun, easy to use, performative, stylish, multi-user, password-protected, videoconference-abled, netflixed, youtubed, musiced, telephoneed, typewritered, medical diagnosis machineed, internet deviced, and rocketed flying you to Mars … there is no end. Obviously this leads to the gigantomastia 12GB of Windows ed.al. and the daily update-itis. Size doesn’t matter much today, but it is overkill and a complete mess to a single person, also regarding privacy… Let’s not go into this here. FreeDos, on the other hand, could be a surprisingly worthy alternative for those who have only basic needs in computing - or very specialized ones (which could be realized with the DOS means). Lean as in “vegetarian steak”, comprehensible in it’s logic as a computer system, stable (I guess), and - lean. (Again. This time: Fast) Maybe I am too much of a purist, minimalist or so, - but I am VERY HAPPY if I CANNOT and DON’T NEED to tweak anything when I don’t need to choose fonts, sizes, colours etc. It is great with its minimal set of rules (=commands). It has been thought through, I accept it and work with it. Just start being productive. No internet browsing, no checking emails, no whatsappdesktop, no whatever networking, no virus, no commercials, no tracking, no listenings to music, no ordering unnecessary stuff from amazon, no watching 3 videos at the same time. (Anyway most people have Smartphones and Tablets to do all this!) So there IS a purpose for DOS / FreeDos today which is more than “retrocomputing” or nostalgia or a “sign of age”. Pure Z.E.N. And by the way: WHY NOT a
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Hey Marcolino: In that case, do you have any linux distribution suggestions for this low-end CPU and GPU? LegacyOS http://wikka.puppylinux.com/LegacyOS -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Well, i understand. In that case, do you have any linux distribution suggestions for this low-end CPU and GPU??? Em dom., 18 de abr. de 2021 às 10:33, Eric Auer escreveu: > > Hello Marcolino, > > > Apologize me for not being very specific, but i was going to ask about > > sound drivers. My main idea is to use it for retrogaming, altough i'd > > like to know if i could use an Image Viewer or even a Media Player. > > Maybe even a eReader. > > You could probably use a media player and image viewer, as some with > current updates exist. They might support AC97 and/or HDA sound with > some common chipsets, but probably not a wide coverage of chipsets. > > > It's a shame however, since my idea was to play classic games in FreeDOS > > (in special The Elder Scrolls), but since no Sound Driver for Soundmax > > AD1984A exist, it won't be very worthful. > > https://www.analog.com/en/products/ad1984.html#product-overview says > this is a HDA codec chip. I believe in HDA, you consider codecs and > the chip which provides the bus separately, but let me know whether > you get it to work in http://mpxplay.sourceforge.net/ or similar. > > For games, there are various work-arounds. A good way would be to > run Linux and open a DOSEMU2 window there ;-) Of course, you could > also use generic virtual PC apps like QEMU. Or you can use DOSBOX, > which again is specifically for DOS apps, or use Windows as host OS > instead of Linux. But DOSEMU2 probably works pretty well for you. > > Another way could be to use DOSBOX-X which you can interestingly run > as a DOS app, using Japheth's HX DOS extender! So it lets you run a > simulation of DOS inside a real DOS, giving you the ability to throw > in some additional hardware emulations. > > Some very recent thing is that the source code of the VBE/AI SDK has > been made open source: This is for an audio extension for VESA VBE > which, while few graphics cards supported it in DOS times, does have > support in a number of 1990s DOS games. So people will soon be able > to write a "driver" which provides VBE/AI BIOS services to help old > games to send sound data to modern sound hardware by using existing > hardware driver source code for example from Linux. Still, this will > be a rather complex project, so do not hold your breath. > > There also is the ancient VSB (virtual sound blaster) project which > uses protected mode to grab attempts of games to communicate with > the sound card in order to pretend that you have a very simplified > sound blaster even if you have none. In the original version, the > sound is then output via printer port D/A if I remember correctly. > Also known as Covox. Again, this could be combined with code from > modern sound drivers to simulate a sound blaster and make the sound > audible on modern hardware. Actually SB LIVE and SB PCI sound cards > used similar strategies to "pretend to be soundblaster compatible". > > I think the easiest way would be to use Linux and DOSEMU2 or similar > "apps which run DOS and/or DOS apps in windows, while emulating some > classic hardware which classic games expect to exist" :-) Of course > it will be less "real", but even with your HP 2133, speed should be > sufficient for a simulation instead of running directly on hardware. > > Regards, Eric > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Marcolino: It's a shame however, since my idea was to play classic games in FreeDOS (in special The Elder Scrolls), but since no Sound Driver for Soundmax AD1984A exist, it won't be very worthful. The tiny built-in/motherboard system speaker beeps. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Hello Marcolino, > Apologize me for not being very specific, but i was going to ask about > sound drivers. My main idea is to use it for retrogaming, altough i'd > like to know if i could use an Image Viewer or even a Media Player. > Maybe even a eReader. You could probably use a media player and image viewer, as some with current updates exist. They might support AC97 and/or HDA sound with some common chipsets, but probably not a wide coverage of chipsets. > It's a shame however, since my idea was to play classic games in FreeDOS > (in special The Elder Scrolls), but since no Sound Driver for Soundmax > AD1984A exist, it won't be very worthful. https://www.analog.com/en/products/ad1984.html#product-overview says this is a HDA codec chip. I believe in HDA, you consider codecs and the chip which provides the bus separately, but let me know whether you get it to work in http://mpxplay.sourceforge.net/ or similar. For games, there are various work-arounds. A good way would be to run Linux and open a DOSEMU2 window there ;-) Of course, you could also use generic virtual PC apps like QEMU. Or you can use DOSBOX, which again is specifically for DOS apps, or use Windows as host OS instead of Linux. But DOSEMU2 probably works pretty well for you. Another way could be to use DOSBOX-X which you can interestingly run as a DOS app, using Japheth's HX DOS extender! So it lets you run a simulation of DOS inside a real DOS, giving you the ability to throw in some additional hardware emulations. Some very recent thing is that the source code of the VBE/AI SDK has been made open source: This is for an audio extension for VESA VBE which, while few graphics cards supported it in DOS times, does have support in a number of 1990s DOS games. So people will soon be able to write a "driver" which provides VBE/AI BIOS services to help old games to send sound data to modern sound hardware by using existing hardware driver source code for example from Linux. Still, this will be a rather complex project, so do not hold your breath. There also is the ancient VSB (virtual sound blaster) project which uses protected mode to grab attempts of games to communicate with the sound card in order to pretend that you have a very simplified sound blaster even if you have none. In the original version, the sound is then output via printer port D/A if I remember correctly. Also known as Covox. Again, this could be combined with code from modern sound drivers to simulate a sound blaster and make the sound audible on modern hardware. Actually SB LIVE and SB PCI sound cards used similar strategies to "pretend to be soundblaster compatible". I think the easiest way would be to use Linux and DOSEMU2 or similar "apps which run DOS and/or DOS apps in windows, while emulating some classic hardware which classic games expect to exist" :-) Of course it will be less "real", but even with your HP 2133, speed should be sufficient for a simulation instead of running directly on hardware. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] DOS word processors / text editors
Hi John, err… you might be right about this. I will have a look at it, too. I don’t actually care so much about keybindings, because I »program« them into my Tipro 128 PS/2 keyboard (»128« means 128 keys available to program whatever I want…!), so I have custom made keycaps labelled the commands, press it and done. No querky pinky, no RSI, no fatigue or mental load on this, and AS FAST AS HELL. I am also not so fond of the Emacs-Style double commands (e.g. ^KX or alike), I prefer the VIM single letter commands, but then there you have the mode-thing, which drove me nuts lately and I switched to EMACS on Mac, WIN and LINUX (Raspberry3 Raspian) because… see above. BTW: Protext is a nice product, too! And! »Boček« can save in UTF-8!! (It pretends to be the only DOS Editor to be able to save into UTF, which is VERY interesting to me.! Still active in development seemingly!) You are hitting the nail: It’s really annoying to me that in the moment I found a program (or an operating system ;) which makes me think: »This is it!«, the itches turn up. Those little bits which make me think, its not worth to »change« to another system or program. Your response on VDE just arrived in time when I was thinking to sum up my »FreeDos« experience from a complete NON-tech user perspective who always despised (MS-)Dos as ridiulous, like Steve Jobs thought us in his short comercial when he tries to open a spread sheet in does and makes fun of MS-Dos in 1992 (!) You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMX_FuOLoCI I will do this »resumée", maybe I can contribute somethinkg to the FreeDos project from a perspective of a person who just wants to be productive with FreeDos in Text composing/editing. Fullstop. Regards, Thomas > On Sun,20210418- week15, at 14:46, JR wrote: > > Hi Thomas > I have had a quick look at VDE. It is very nice in that it supports PCL > printers directly. Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that key bindings > cannot be changed. Sprint and MicroStar both allow customisation of key > bindings. On the Windows front I use TextPad as an editor. It also allows key > bindings to be changed. Boxer is another fine Editor but only supports a > single character after key modifier(Ctrl/ Alt). Eg. Ctrl K is valid but Ctrl > K X is not supported. > Regards > John > > On 2021/04/15 15:47, Thomas Desi wrote: >> I am sure you found this anyway: https://sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor/Home >> -Th. >> >>> Am 15.04.2021 um 15:44 schrieb JR : >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2021/04/15 15:39, Thomas Desi wrote: >>>> John, >>>> VDE is nice, and it comes with „vinst.com“ which lets you customise the >>>> whole editor to the users needs/liking/workflow >>> Thanks, I will be taking a close look. >>>> I am looking forward to try the Sprint Program! >>>> >>>> Note: I am looking for an easy converted ASCII <-> UTF8. >>>> Have you any knowledge of such a beast? >>> Unfortunately not. >>>> Regards, Thanks again for offering in case a copy, >>> Shout if needed and I will upload to Box and send you a link. >>>> Thomas >>> PS. What part of the world are you in. I am in Cape Town, South Africa. >>> >>>>> Am 15.04.2021 um 15:34 schrieb JR : >>>>> >>>>> Hi Thomas >>>>> I have only ever used version 1.01. It was distributed on nearly a dozen >>>>> 5" floppy disks and 3 printed manuals, User's Guide, Advanced User's >>>>> Guide and Reference Guide. It has a few quirks but is very stable >>>>> compared to many modern WP's. It also has a scripting language but I'm >>>>> not wild about it. You are welcome to a copy if it isn't already >>>>> available on the web. >>>>> I have just looked up VDE and will investigate, thanks. I tried one of >>>>> the later DOS versions of WordStar which had a Wysiwyg preview option >>>>> which could help with page breaks before printing. I didn't like it and >>>>> stayed with Sprint. Also looked at Brief and other popular WP's (can't >>>>> remember their names) at the time before I chose Sprint. >>>>> Regards >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> On 2021/04/15 14:59, Thomas Desi wrote: >>>>>> Hi John, >>>>>> thanks for your experience account and software list. >>>>>> I am intrigued - as »collecting« word processors/text editors in the >>>>>> "quest for the best« - I managed to find >>>>>> the following. >>>>>> (https:
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 6:59 AM Liam Proven wrote: >[..] > FreeDOS commands are different in places; output is different in > places. That is fair; it is a community effort and an unauthorised > copy of a long-obsolete OS. I have no right to demand 100% > compatibility, and I don't. But I was surprised and annoyed by the > differences, and since at present I only use DOS for fun, then I will > not use something that annoys me. > FreeDOS is not "an unauthorized copy" of MS-DOS. FreeDOS is a DOS-compatible operating system. We built FreeDOS using open documentation and standards, such as Ralf Brown's Interrupt List (RBIL) and printed documentation (such as the command documentation from the printed MS-DOS user manuals). Saying FreeDOS is "an unauthorized copy" implies that FreeDOS copied MS-DOS source code, which is not the case. In fact, we have rejected contributions from people who have hinted (or even joked) that they had seen the MS-DOS source code, before Microsoft re-released the source code to MS-DOS 1.25 and MS-DOS 2.0 via GitHub in 2018. *This source code re-release is distributed under the MIT License (aka "Expat" License) and is compatible with the GNU GPL. Developers who download and study these versions of MS-DOS are welcome to contribute to FreeDOS. Words matter. Please do not suggest that FreeDOS "copied" the MS-DOS source code. Instead of "unauthorized copy," you might instead say "re-implementation." Jim ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Hello Eric. Apologize me for not being very specific, but i was going to ask about sound drivers. My main idea is to use it for retrogaming, altough i'd like to know if i could use an Image Viewer or even a Media Player. Maybe even a eReader. It's a shame however, since my idea was to play classic games in FreeDOS (in special The Elder Scrolls), but since no Sound Driver for Soundmax AD1984A exist, it won't be very worthful. Em dom., 18 de abr. de 2021 às 09:52, Eric Auer escreveu: > > Hi Marcolino, > > > I've restored an HP 2133 Mini-Note PC recently and i've > > installed FreeDOS on it. > > > > Is there some driver compatible with this laptop? > > If you could tell us which components you cannot use > at the moment because you are looking for DOS drivers, > I could give a more specific answer. > > As https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_2133_Mini-Note_PC > says, those laptops have 512 MB to 2 GB of RAM, between > 4 GB SSD and 160 GB harddisk, 1280x768 or 1024x600 LCD, > VIA Chrome 9 graphics (using a part of the normal RAM) > and a VIA C7 CPU. Touchpad, keyboard, microphone, VGA > webcam, WLAN, LAN, Bluetooth, USB, ExpressCard slot and > microphone / headphone jacks etc. > > You can expect that WLAN, Bluetooth and webcam will not > be supported in DOS. Your sound will probably only work > with very few modern apps such as MPXPLAY media player. > > Most old games have drivers built-in, so sound drivers > are not something provided by the operating system. It > also means that they can only use very old sound cards. > > Using your RAM, SSD, harddisk, processor and keyboard is > not expected to be any problem for DOS. For USB and LAN, > various drivers exist, but I would have to know which > controllers your computer has to be able to think about > whether a DOS driver for those exists. > > > What am i able to do with FreeDOS besides playing old games? > > If you look at the mailing list archives, you will see > that we had a thread earlier this month where people > exchanged some thoughts and memories about what they > are and have been doing with DOS :-) > > > Is there some way to emulate Graphics Cards? > > As you can already use DOS, my question would be why > you want to emulate which graphics card. I can imagine > that many DOS apps (in particular games) use graphics > at 4:3 aspect ratio while your screen is roughly 16:10 > so you will get black bars, distortion or fuzzy images. > > You probably have hotkeys, similar to EEE PC, which let > your BIOS cycle between different methods to deal with > screen size to graphics resolution mismatches. > > What are the abilities of your graphics system in DOS? > Do VESA graphics modes work? How about VBE and linear > framebuffers (LFB) in games? Is VGA compatibility okay? > How about EGA or even CGA for older games? > > Either way, the extra acceleration features (for example > for 3d or video) of your hardware are probably not used > by DOS at all, so you neither have nor need drivers here. > > If you connect an external screen, you will probably be > able to use the higher resolutions available there, but > probably limited to 1080p and below given the age of the > computer and the (graphics) BIOS which comes with it? > > Regards, Eric > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Hi Marcolino, > I've restored an HP 2133 Mini-Note PC recently and i've > installed FreeDOS on it. > > Is there some driver compatible with this laptop? If you could tell us which components you cannot use at the moment because you are looking for DOS drivers, I could give a more specific answer. As https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_2133_Mini-Note_PC says, those laptops have 512 MB to 2 GB of RAM, between 4 GB SSD and 160 GB harddisk, 1280x768 or 1024x600 LCD, VIA Chrome 9 graphics (using a part of the normal RAM) and a VIA C7 CPU. Touchpad, keyboard, microphone, VGA webcam, WLAN, LAN, Bluetooth, USB, ExpressCard slot and microphone / headphone jacks etc. You can expect that WLAN, Bluetooth and webcam will not be supported in DOS. Your sound will probably only work with very few modern apps such as MPXPLAY media player. Most old games have drivers built-in, so sound drivers are not something provided by the operating system. It also means that they can only use very old sound cards. Using your RAM, SSD, harddisk, processor and keyboard is not expected to be any problem for DOS. For USB and LAN, various drivers exist, but I would have to know which controllers your computer has to be able to think about whether a DOS driver for those exists. > What am i able to do with FreeDOS besides playing old games? If you look at the mailing list archives, you will see that we had a thread earlier this month where people exchanged some thoughts and memories about what they are and have been doing with DOS :-) > Is there some way to emulate Graphics Cards? As you can already use DOS, my question would be why you want to emulate which graphics card. I can imagine that many DOS apps (in particular games) use graphics at 4:3 aspect ratio while your screen is roughly 16:10 so you will get black bars, distortion or fuzzy images. You probably have hotkeys, similar to EEE PC, which let your BIOS cycle between different methods to deal with screen size to graphics resolution mismatches. What are the abilities of your graphics system in DOS? Do VESA graphics modes work? How about VBE and linear framebuffers (LFB) in games? Is VGA compatibility okay? How about EGA or even CGA for older games? Either way, the extra acceleration features (for example for 3d or video) of your hardware are probably not used by DOS at all, so you neither have nor need drivers here. If you connect an external screen, you will probably be able to use the higher resolutions available there, but probably limited to 1080p and below given the age of the computer and the (graphics) BIOS which comes with it? Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP 2133
Hi Marcolino: I've restored an HP 2133 Mini-Note PC recently and i've installed FreeDOS on it. I have an old 32 bit PC running FreeDOS. It has a hardware serial port. What am i able to do with FreeDOS besides playing old games? I have an ancient heart-monitor with a serial interface and DOS software. It works fine on the above. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
Thanks, Liam: But I was surprised and annoyed by the differences, and since at present I only use DOS for fun, then I will not use something that annoys me. There is always something to learn. Everything changes. Perhaps it is harder for an expert to learn, than for a novice. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
Hi Liam, if I understand you correctly then you say I behaved as if you were not well-informed when you said that config files have different names in FreeDOS. Now given that you ARE well informed, you must have been talking about something else than config.sys and autoexec.bat because those 2 CAN use the same filenames in FreeDOS and MS DOS. Which means you must have meant OTHER config files, but which ones do you mean specifically? It was in no way my intention to make you angry by MENTIONING file naming possibilities! > Drive A: is the 5.25" disk drive > Drive B: is the 3.5" disk drive > > This does not work in 4DOS, because 4DOS insists that text output > with the `ECHO` command has matching single or double quotes Interesting. We do not advertise 4DOS that much, though, given some licensing details, if I remember correctly. I hope FreeCOM command.com has fewer such incompatibilities. > FreeDOS commands are different in places; output is different in > places. That is fair... Now that we have been talking about config files: FreeDOS does not implement the config.sys menu syntax of MS DOS 6, but uses a different syntax, yes. There was some discussion about that years ago. As there were too few users who wanted the kernel to be a drop-in replacement for the MS DOS kernel, while many users start with the default config dropped by the installer and add their own extensions manually, there never was enough momentum to add MS DOS style config menu syntax. Maybe there even were some patches offered, but I honestly do not remember. Actually I wonder whether DR DOS, PC DOS or other commercial DOS kernels support the MS DOS config menu syntax and whether they (also) support their own variations and extensions of it? >> PS: No, I do not need downloads of other copyrighted DOSes. That was related to DR DOS and PC DOS. As far as I know, only the core files of DR DOS are freely available (also EDR DOS) while PC DOS is at best abandonware? If PC DOS has officially been made freeware, then I have missed the accouncement, sorry. But no, this was not meant as complaining about AVAILABILITY, it can be read explicitly as ME not planning to switch to a less free DOS while I already have a more free one. Which I do like to compare in features and compatibility to others. I do know that MS has made very old versions of MS DOS free or even open, but I doubt that people use such old versions. I also doubt that any DOS vendor cares about whether their twenty or thirty year old products are found in www today. > You do not appear to be interested; you only seem to want to needle > me. I am not rising to it. You do not seem to want to know. To be more specific, I was hoping for some insights of how much RAM you were using for what, to get an idea of where the areas are in which FreeDOS is wasting RAM versus where it already is doing okay. Both for kernel and shell and for various drivers. It is not my intention to whine about copyrights, but it is not my intention either to install a whole virtual machine just to find out more about the vague hint that DR DOS or PC DOS uses less RAM than FreeDOS. It would have been nice if you would have been willing to talk about it, but it certainly is not worth the stress to accuse each other of all sorts of things instead of doing a little mailing list chat about compatibility and RAM. No worries! Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] HP 2133
Hello! I've restored an HP 2133 Mini-Note PC recently and i've installed FreeDOS on it. Is there some driver compatible with this laptop? What am i able to do with FreeDOS besides playing old games? Is there some way to emulate Graphics Cards? Thank you. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 at 12:34, Eric Auer wrote: > > If you have only autoexec.bat and config.sys then FreeDOS > will use those. The reason why FreeDOS first tries fdconfig.sys > is that you can install FreeDOS and MS DOS on the same drive > with a boot manager and people wanted to be able to have two > different sets of config files in that case :-) But again, you > can simply use the classic MS DOS style config file names with > FreeDOS as well if you do not need the distinction. One of the _very_ annoying things about attempting to discuss the differences between OS implementations (e.g. PC DOS vs MS-DOS vs DR DOS vs FreeDOS), or Linux distros, or Linux vs *BSD * SCO Xenix/Unix, is that people assume that one's knowledge level is lower than their own. I've been using DOS for 36 years, professionally implemented, supported and maintained it for ~20 years starting 33 years ago, and still use it for fun. *PLEASE* do not patronise me by attempting to explain small stuff like this to me. Assume I know what I am talking about. Try to imagine that you're talking to someone whose knowledge level is the same or greater than your own. I occasionally put FreeDOS onto a USB stick to flash BIOSes. I tried v1.0 when it came out, to wipe some old PCs I was donating to Computers4Africa: https://www.ictforeducation.co.uk/details/computers-4-africa.html I was startled to discover that my name was in the credits. I was peripherally involved in the FreeGEM project, I wrote and translated some docs, debugged the installation batch files for Shane Coughlan's OpenGEM, and so my name was in there. I do not claim to be a FreeDOS expert. I could, though, claim to be a PC, MS and DR DOS expert. Your messages, along with Tom Ehlert's, are making me very very angry and it with real effort that I am typing a calm and reasonable response. As an example of how I do not like changes to DOS, I avoided 4DOS back in the day, because it broke some of my batch files. I displayed messages in AUTOEXCEC.BAT telling my customers, for example... Drive A: is the 5.25" disk drive Drive B: is the 3.5" disk drive This does not work in 4DOS, because 4DOS insists that text output with the `ECHO` command has matching single or double quotes, whereas in COMMAND.COM, it echoes unquoted text without break characters before quotes. If a product breaks compatibility with existing config files or scripts without offering a *substantial* benefit in return, then I will not use it. FreeDOS commands are different in places; output is different in places. That is fair; it is a community effort and an unauthorised copy of a long-obsolete OS. I have no right to demand 100% compatibility, and I don't. But I was surprised and annoyed by the differences, and since at present I only use DOS for fun, then I will not use something that annoys me. > In that case, which small classic drivers do you recommend? I don't. *Particularly* in the light of this: > PS: No, I do not need downloads of other copyrighted DOSes. Which I find *highly* offensive, annoying, and is in fact inaccurate, unfair and unrepresentative. I will not reply as I want to. I am trying to be polite. You do not appear to be interested; you only seem to want to needle me. I am not rising to it. You do not seem to want to know. You seem to want to falsely accuse me of piracy. If you want to know, I have given you the clues. Go find out for yourself. The next impolite email I receive from you will result in a block. Ditto for Ehlert. This will not inconvenience you, but unless you actively like attacking strangers on the internet who are trying to offer help, guidance and advice free of charge, _modify your tone_. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
Hi Liam, >> Please mention a few examples of differences :-) > Different names for config files are the start. If you have only autoexec.bat and config.sys then FreeDOS will use those. The reason why FreeDOS first tries fdconfig.sys is that you can install FreeDOS and MS DOS on the same drive with a boot manager and people wanted to be able to have two different sets of config files in that case :-) But again, you can simply use the classic MS DOS style config file names with FreeDOS as well if you do not need the distinction. >> In that case, I guess you are now using some PC or DR DOS parts >> combined with more modern, smaller drivers popular in FreeDOS? > Nope. I prefer to keep things as original as possible. In that case, which small classic drivers do you recommend? Regards, Eric PS: No, I do not need downloads of other copyrighted DOSes. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Why do you use DOS
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 at 00:48, Eric Auer wrote: > > Please mention a few examples of differences :-) Different names for config files are the start. > In that case, I guess you are now using some PC or DR DOS parts > combined with more modern, smaller drivers popular in FreeDOS? Nope. I prefer to keep things as original as possible. I use IBM tools and drivers on PC DOS, if necessary supplemented with MS ones from the Win98SE boot disk (for example SCANDISK and the MS editor -- I'm not fond of IBM E). Likewise, DR tools with DR-DOS. Jim Hall scolded me the last time I posted links, but if you search with Google on the site liam-on-linux.livejournal.com for "DR DOS" or "PC DOS", you will find descriptions of what I have done and downloads of VirtualBox VHD images. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Latex / long filenames
On Sun, 18 Apr 2021 05:29:22 +0200, Rugxulo wrote: > Sorry if this isn't a perfect answer (I don't use Latex), but it > should give you some rough idea of what to do. Yes, thanks. IIRC, it worked (ie moved on to next problem) when just making sure to use the Unix commands, and starting over from scratch. /Tomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
