Re: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
Floppies are definitely NOT the most reliable DOS boot media. After a year or so of daily use, they will likely become unusable. So unless they keep a ready supply of spares, you're going to have some upset clients. I would go the cd-rom or HD route, because USB drives stick out and are easy to break off. -Original Message- From: Marcos Favero Florence de Barros [mailto:fav...@mpcnet.com.br] Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 4:36 PM To: FreeDOS List Subject: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk So, my questions today are: (1) Which is the best approach to booting client computers without hard disks? (2) Where do I find the relevant instructions? Thanks, Marcos Florence Sao Paulo, Brazil -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
19-Oct-2009 числа в 12:33 часов, ты написал(а) следующее: Floppies are definitely NOT the most reliable DOS boot media. After a year or so of daily use, they will likely become unusable. So unless they keep a ready supply of spares, you're going to have some upset clients. I would go the cd-rom or HD route, because USB drives stick out and are easy to break off. Break how? -- /Buzzer () кампания ascii ribbon - против писем в html формате /\ www.asciiribbon.org - против проприетарных вложений -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
Floppies are definitely NOT the most reliable DOS boot media. After a year or so of daily use, they will likely become unusable. So unless they keep a ready supply of spares, you're going to have some upset clients. I would go the cd-rom or HD route, because USB drives stick out and are easy to break off. Break how? Breaking off means falling out of the port or being disconnected by accident. I'd definitively prefer CD-ROMs or HDDs as well, simply because I won't depend on good BIOS USB drive support for DOS. As Eric mentioned, there are adapters which allow replacing HDDs with CF cards. There are also SD card adapters but these contain an actual chip and therefore usually cost more. (Both of these adapter types look to the BIOS and software exactly like a HDD.) Regards, Christian -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
19-Oct-2009 числа в 23:49 часов, ты написал(а) следующее: upset clients. I would go the cd-rom or HD route, because USB drives stick out and are easy to break off. Break how? Breaking off means falling out of the port or being disconnected by accident. I'd definitively prefer CD-ROMs or HDDs as well, simply because I won't Me too, because CD cost almost nothing. -- /Buzzer () кампания ascii ribbon - против писем в html формате /\ www.asciiribbon.org - против проприетарных вложений -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
I built and support a DataPerfect database with 8 computers networked through MS-Client. Since this network is completely dedicated to the database (i.e., it needs not run any other software), I decided to get rid of the hard disks in all client computers. They now boot from a floppy disk containing FreeDOS and MS-Client only. The database software resides in the server machine. This is working fine, but it would be good to replace the floppy boot disks by something faster and more reliable. So I must decide where to go from here, but knowing almost nothing about booting, this is where I stand now: - I found and read the instructions on creating a DOS bootable USB disk. - I suppose it is also possible to boot from a CD-ROM. - Members of our list have been discussing net booting, but I'm not sure what it means exactly, and whether it is appropriate in my case. I remember reading somewhere that diskless client computers need special hardware on their network cards. A major concern in this network is reliability, as the database is used by doctors and nurses 12 hours a day to keep track of some 30,000 patients. So, my questions today are: (1) Which is the best approach to booting client computers without hard disks? (2) Where do I find the relevant instructions? Thanks, Marcos Florence Sao Paulo, Brazil -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Marcos Favero Florence de Barros fav...@mpcnet.com.br wrote: I built and support a DataPerfect database with 8 computers networked through MS-Client. Since this network is completely dedicated to the database (i.e., it needs not run any other software), I decided to get rid of the ... (1) Which is the best approach to booting client computers without hard disks? This largely depends on the computers and environment they are in. CD-ROM and Network based booting will both be similar in that the commonly (and probably easist) method involves copying a floppy image to RAM and then booting DOS from there with DOS thinking its booting from a floppy. In both cases there are generic drivers that allow access using the BIOS services for the remaining CD-ROM data or Networking respectively, though it is best to load device specific drivers when feasible and continued access is needed. The CD-ROM and USB based booting both require that users not remove the disk, though given you already boot them from floppy this probably isn't a problem in your environment. Most current PCs can boot from USB, CD-ROM and probably Network if its built in to the motherboard, but you need to consider if all will have a CD-ROM drive, if the nic supports network booting and what method [PXE or older technology - for addon nics does it have a ROM chip installed, usually they are sold with a socket that can be used to enable network booting but no chip], and is the USB slot in a good location physically to ensure no one accidently or otherwise removes device/blocks access to other ports in cases where drive is bulky. For less than a dozen computers the cost of USB drive (assuming flash based) is probably not an issue but could be in the general case, wherease CDRs are low enough to not be. For a small LAN there should be no issues with speed/reliability of network, but the server may need to have additional services added if not already, eg DHCP server and TFTP. USB booting may have quirks depending on BIOS, but I've found drive access to generally be reliable (perhaps slow). Anyway from a DOS standpoint, any should be fine once setup. CD-ROM booting is going to be the simplest, its just a matter of taking your current floppy, make an image, use something like ISOLINUX with MEMDISK or even your CD recording software's basic CD boot by specifying image, burn the disc. I recommend the ISOLINUX/MEMDISK approach as it is reliable but also provides a writable drive (though edits don't survive reboots) which can be handy as software often opens files R/W and enables using pipes at the command line (type XX.TXT | MORE); you may not need this in your case. (2) Where do I find the relevant instructions? I am just typing this up real quick so don't have a good answer, but I recommend you check out SYSLINUX's ISO and PXE variants. A google search should find several methods to make a bootable USB disk, but basically depending on if your BIOS expects it as a floppy or hd determines whether you format it as a floppy (1st sector is start of FAT) or hd where you need to FDISK it and then format (1st sector is partition table). Thanks, Marcos Florence Sao Paulo, Brazil Probably didn't answer your question, but if you have a specific question I will do my best to help answer. Jeremy -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Booting without hard disk
Hi Marcos, Another idea: You can connect compact flash cards with a purely mechanical adapter to IDE harddisk controllers. Might give better performance and compatibility than a scheme based on USB sticks :-). Initial setup might be slightly tricky, but the same tricks as for USB sticks will help you to install DOS on a CF card. Prices will also be okay as CF are big and simple compared to the miniature SD variant memory cards that people use now. I built and support a DataPerfect database with 8 computers networked through MS-Client. I hope you also have good and regular backups :-) Since this network is completely dedicated to the database (i.e., it needs not run any other software), I decided to get rid of the hard disks in all client computers. They now boot from a floppy... How often do the computers boot? You can keep the floppy contents small and fetch the rest from the network. You can also load LBACACHE FLOP with TICKLE to get efficient cached floppy reads with track read-ahead early at boot. - ...read the instructions on creating a DOS bootable USB disk With newer BIOSes, this will usually work well. Avoid using EMM386 or configure UMB exclusion areas carefully, as USB and network access can interfere with DOS UMB memory. Note that writing to USB sticks via BIOS is often slow, but as you do not intend to write the boot medium at all as far as I understand, that should not be a problem. You might try to use FDSHIELD to write protect disks, but configurability is limited and some software has problems with unexpected inability to write to a disk... - I suppose it is also possible to boot from a CD-ROM. Booting from CD or DVD will be faster and will fit more data than booting from floppy, but a CD/DVD drive is still a mechanical device. How long it will last also depends on whether you keep fetching files from CD/DVD from time to time or whether you only access the CD/DVD during the boot process and copy all data to a ramdisk then. Usually CD/DVD boots well with either a floppy image (1.44 or 2.88 MB common) or ISOLINUX plus MEMDISK for other sizes. The latter also allows compressed images, plus you can use ELTORITO,SYS to access the non-boot part of the CD/DVD, giving you much space for tools. - Members of our list have been discussing net booting The classical diskless boot is of course from network via PXE, but if you want to use the network for DOS apps after booting, there can be a conflict between network boot and network usage... You say that you use MSCLIENT so it is likely that you run into this problem. On the other hand, you usually boot via PXELINUX and MEMDISK so all PXE boot network access is only during boot. A major concern in this network is reliability, as the database is used by doctors and nurses 12 hours a day to keep track of some 30,000 patients. Indeed. And you might want to write-protect the boot medium. Eric -- Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
