Re: unclutter gtk2
I had to give up unclutter due to this bug. I still miss it terribly :-(. It would be nice if someone figured out what the problem is. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FVWM: More than 4 desktops in Gnome
Hi all; I'm using Gnome 2.8 on Debian Sarge, with FVWM 2.5.12 (packaged by Debian) as my window manager. I'm also using fvwm-themes 0.7.0 and fvwm-icons 2001.08.13, also from Debian packages. This same thing happened when I was using 2.6, and maybe before that. My problem is that when I log in, I have 4 desktops configured and visible in the workspace switcher applet, which is the default amount for a Gnome system. I can choose the desktop with the gnome-panel, and move windows, and all that stuff. But I want more than 4 desktops. I can use the Properties on the workspace switcher application to add more desktops, and they work fine during that session. So I log out (clicking the save session box). But, when I log back in, I only have 4 desktops again and I have to recreate them with the workspace switcher properties!! This is pretty annoying. Anyone have any ideas what the problem here is? Is it FVWM, forcing 4 desktops? Can I configure FVWM to have more than 4? I found the configuration of pages per desktop, but I can't see anything that forces a specific number of desktops. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: How to compile fvwm with stroke support
%% Dan Espen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: de Alvin Chin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry to be ignorant, but when I right click with my mouse on the root window (the background of my desktop which is in a VNC viewer), I only see the standard menu of the GNOME window manager (New Windows, New Folder, etc.). Unless this is not called the root window, then what is the root window? de Gnome runs something called Nautilus. de This creates a borderless window that covers the root window. de You can stop using nautilus or invoke your fvwm menus some other way. Or, choose the third way! :) Change your key and mouse click to accept both R (root window) AND D (desktop application). So: Mouse 3 R A StrokeFunc FeedBack DrawMotion StrokeWidth 2 Stroke 0 0 R A Exec xmessage Just click mouse 3 on the root Stroke N852 0 R A Exec xterm -n Draw line from up to down Stroke N456 0 R A Exec xterm -n Draw line from left to right Mouse 3 RD A StrokeFunc FeedBack DrawMotion StrokeWidth 2 Stroke 0 0 RD A Exec xmessage Just click mouse 3 on the root Stroke N852 0 RD A Exec xterm -n Draw line from up to down Stroke N456 0 RD A Exec xterm -n Draw line from left to right See the documentation of the Mouse option in the fvwm man page. Note you need a sufficiently new version of FVWM (I don't remember whether this is implemented in 2.4.x). -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: New Debian package, second try
%% Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Works fine for me, upgrading from a locally compiled/installed 2.5.7 - after putting my old system.fvwm2rc in ~/.fvwm/.fvwm2rc I'm not getting anti-aliased fonts (I am in, for instance, Mozilla and Gnumeric; I didn't with my homebrew 2.5.7 either, though). es AFAIK anti-aliasing fonts in applications is not related to WM I think Adam means that his FVWM menus, window title bars, etc. (things that are under control of the WM) don't have AA fonts... but that other apps on his system do. FWIW. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No Xft mono fonts in FvwmForm?
I changed my FvwmFormDefaultFont, etc. to use Xft fonts like this: *FvwmFormDefaultFont xft:Bitstream Vera Sans:Bold:minspace=True:size=12 that works great. However, I then tried to make the InputFont use a monospace font like this: *FvwmFormDefaultInputFont xft:Bitstream Vera Sans Mono:minspace=True:size=12 and that didn't work: it still used the Vera Sans font, not the Vera Sans Mono font. But, I know it's reading this value since if I change the size parameter the size of the font does change... but it's never monospace. Anyone know what's going on here? I'm using FVWM 2.5.8 from the Debian package at the fvwm-themes site, on a Debian sid system. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: init-function
%% Dan Espen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Exec ssh-add /dev/null;$HOME/bin/email-notify de The double exec is to get rid of the shell that launches and waits de for the the command to terminate. Since email-notify probably de hangs around, Exec exec is probably better, but I'm not too sure de that the shell I created with 'sh -c' isn't hanging around. de Probably another exec in the command will deal with it. de All in all, I like your suggested solution better. de I'll take simple over efficient every time. If you can stand being a _little_ less simple to get a _little_ more efficient, I think what you really want is this: Exec ssh-add /dev/null ; exec $HOME/bin/email-notify This way (a) a shell is invoked, (b) the shell runs ssh-add, then (c) the shell execs email-notify, and in the end you just have one email-notify process running. Exec exec sh -c 'ssh-add /dev/null;$HOME/bin/email-notify' This doesn't save anything over the version at the top of this email, in terms of # of processes. Fvwm starts a shell, then that shell exec's a new shell, then the second shell starts ssh-add, then the second shell starts email-notify. So, at the end you still have a shell and email-notify running, same as the simple method :). -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: Re: Unofficial debian package for 2.5.8
%% Mikhael Goikhman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are we still speaking of the examples? mg I am speaking about the patch of 1.2Mb that you apply. Maybe a good way forward would be for someone to go through the 1.2M patch and give a concise bullet list of all the changes that it makes. Then we can have a bullet-by-bullet discussion about whether each is appropriate or not, in the new FVWM. It seems that the FVWM Debian package is suffering from some bitrot, where the Debian-specific parts haven't always been modified to reflect enhancements in the base package. As an example I agree with Mikhael that there shouldn't be a system-wide default fvwm config: Dan's excellent work to bring up a configurator for new FVWM users shouldn't be hidden by years-old crusty configuration files. Let's get the list of changes, then we can all decide how to create the best possible package for both Debian users and FVWM developers. I've had a lot of good experiences with Manoj as the Debian maintainer of GNU make so I feel confident we can work together just as amicably for FVWM. For DEBs, even moreso than with RPMs, I don't think it's a good idea to have two very different setups: it just doesn't make sense in the Debian world. If we can get the official DEB setup, or very close to it, into the FVWM release tarball that would be most excellent. Should we move this discussion to the fvwm-workers list? -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: fvwm for Debian
%% Remko Troncon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: debian unstable is called unstable because it's not stable yet, not because it includes unstable (development) versions of apps. Generally debian unstable includes latest stable versions of apps (or at least that's the goal, as far as I can say). rt That's correct. Although that doesn't prevent them from adding the rt development version as well, but under a different name (such as rt they do with a lot of packages). And i too am longing for the FVWM rt development versions in Debian unstable, because FVWM is about the rt only package i still have to install from source. Ever tried http://www.apt-get.org ?? Try adding: deb http://people.debian.org/~sacha/debian stable main deb http://people.debian.org/~sacha/debian unstable main deb-src http://people.debian.org/~sacha/debian unstable main to sources.list. Note that these aren't all that up-to-date; I think the version there is still 2.5.6. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: Wiki for fvwm?
%% Felix E. Klee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: fek 4. a method to include menus for CodeWeavers CXOffice and CXPlugin. Ooh, I'd be interested in that. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
%% Olivier Chapuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: oc Ok, I've found the problem: the gnome-session editor wants oc the SmCloneCommand. I will commit a fix soon. Excellent; thanks Olivier. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
%% Olivier Chapuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another thing is that the fonts don't look so hot anymore: I'm using Microsoft's Arial TrueType font for window titles, menus, etc. and they used to look excellent, but now they look blocky and uneven. oc What are your exact fvwm configuration lines for loading font? Do oc you use Xft or core fonts rendering? Oh gack. This one is my fault. I'm using Arial at home, but at work I was using adobe-helvetica. I guess it was a bitmapped font or something, anyway it looked bad. I installed the new free Bitstream Vera TrueType fonts and switched to using those with the xft: method, and it looks sweet now! You do have to remember to put in the minspace=True, I find, because the default is definitely False and you definitely get too much space above/below the font without minspace=True. Cool! And sorry about the false alarm... -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
All the rest of my problems seem solved, except this one: anyone have any idea whether the Gnome 2.2 session manager is sufficiently different that it doesn't grok FVWM? %% I wrote: sp Yes, this is what I eventually did. Yes there is a session sp control dialog; it's here: sp Foot - Applications - Desktop Preferences - Advanced - Sessions sp However, after I killed sawfish and started fvwm, fvwm does not sp appear in the list of apps in the current session in the session sp manager. It used to appear there in Gnome 1.4 (that's how I sp switched last time), but no longer. Note I'm using the gnome sp session manager, not fvwm's session manager. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
%% Mikhael Goikhman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: mg killall sawfish? If this does not work and it is restarted, try mg to remove sawfish from the Session Properties dialog (I hope there mg is one in GNOME 2). Yes, this is what I eventually did. Yes there is a session control dialog; it's here: Foot - Applications - Desktop Preferences - Advanced - Sessions However, after I killed sawfish and started fvwm, fvwm does not appear in the list of apps in the current session in the session manager. It used to appear there in Gnome 1.4 (that's how I switched last time), but no longer. Note I'm using the gnome session manager, not fvwm's session manager. Do I need to start fvwm with a special flag for this? I compiled fvwm with almost everything enabled, except the GNOME support for FvwmGtk (because there's no gnome-config on my system: for some reason it's not provided with the gnome2 development packages on Debian). Since it's not there, when I save my session, then log out and back in, it won't know to restart fvwm. Another thing is that the fonts don't look so hot anymore: I'm using Microsoft's Arial TrueType font for window titles, menus, etc. and they used to look excellent, but now they look blocky and uneven. They still look great in some parts of the desktop (stuff that's rebuilt specifically for Gnome 2?), but not others. Anyone have any ideas? I think it's because I'm using a different font server/rendering engine (freetype2?) but I don't know the details. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
%% Dan Espen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: de Paul Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I compiled fvwm with almost everything enabled, except the GNOME support for FvwmGtk (because there's no gnome-config on my system: for some reason it's not provided with the gnome2 development packages on Debian). de I don't know about the rest of your issues, but gnome-config de is for Gnome 1. de pkg-config is for Gnome 2. So, I guess this means that the FVWM configure.in needs to be updated to grok this change--or, Mikhael/Olivier, do you think there are other changes needed to support Gnome2? I can do the configure.in changes, if someone can tell me how pkg-config should be invoked. Unfortunately on my system when I invoke --list-all I get weird errors, so I don't think using my system as an example is a good idea: # pkg-config --list-all libpnglibpng10 - Loads and saves PNG files libpng10 libpng10 - Loads and saves PNG files glib-2.0 GLib - C Utility Library libxmllibXML - libXML library. gnome-vfs-module-2.0 gnome-vfs-module - The GNOME virtual file-system module include info imlib Imlib - An image loading and rendering library for X11R6 gnome-mime-data-2.0 gnome-mime-data - Base set of file types and applications for GNOME libbonobo-2.0 libbonobo - libbonobo gtk+ GTK+ - GIMP Tool Kit gobject-2.0 GObject - GLib Type, Object, Parameter and Signal Library Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-2.0.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable Package 'gtk+-2.0', required by 'gnome-window-settings-2.0', not found :( So, is there a particular pkg-config package we should be looking for? -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
%% Olivier Chapuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: oc Start gnome-session in my .xinitrc oc (+ before: export FVWM_USERDIR=/home/olivier/.fvwm-fd oc fvwm-themes-start --session gnome --no-start oc but this is for my fvwm config). oc Then, I've metacity as window manager. I open a terminal and run oc fvwm -r [-f themes-rc] oc Then, fvwm replace metacity smoothly. When leaving the session oc I save it. After that, when I start gnome-session fvwm is used oc in the place of metacity (no need to save the session again for oc further gnome-session start). Hm. I upgraded my system to Gnome 2.2. The default window manager is sawfish. When I run fvwm -r (this is FVWM 2.5.7) then FVWM starts, but sawfish doesn't stop!! IOW, my FVWM button bar appears but all my windows, including the button bar, are still decorated by sawfish not FVWM. Any ideas? If we could get this working it would be nice to have an entry for Gnome 2 in the FAQ, because the current info there for Gnome is all Gnome 1.x based (there is no Window Manager option under the control panel etc. anymore, that I can find...) -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: Simple Hack: A Run Dialog
%% Dan Espen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: de As I understand it a wiki is a bunch of web sites linked together. de Fvwm does have a links page. Isn't that sufficient? No, you're thinking of a web ring. A Wiki is a site where the content is user-modifiable, at any time, simply by using your browser. You write content in Wiki style which is a very simple textual markup, like *bold*, _italic_, etc. You can make simple lists and headers, and most allow for the creation of simple tables as well. A Wiki is just about the best/least expensive way I've seen to have real collaborative self-support on the web. Start here: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiWikiWeb -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gnome 2 and FVWM
%% Olivier Chapuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Overall I'm not having too many problems (except with Nautilus, but I'll deal with that). oc There is a new bindings context D which may help a bit with Nautilus oc desktop. This looks good, I'll try it out, thanks! But, one thing that's annoying is that the Gnome splash screen never disappears by itself. It goes along showing the icons of all the stuff it's loading until it gets to (I suppose) the WM, then it just sits there. oc I cannot reproduce this problem if I use the following procedure oc for starting fvwm with GNOME 2: oc Start gnome-session in my .xinitrc oc (+ before: export FVWM_USERDIR=/home/olivier/.fvwm-fd oc fvwm-themes-start --session gnome --no-start oc but this is for my fvwm config). oc Then, I've metacity as window manager. I open a terminal and run oc fvwm -r [-f themes-rc] oc Then, fvwm replace metacity smoothly. When leaving the session oc I save it. After that, when I start gnome-session fvwm is used oc in the place of metacity (no need to save the session again for oc further gnome-session start). Hm. This is what I did: * Gnome session started from GDM, so .xinitrc is not used * In the session manager, I changed the metacity value from Restart to Normal, so the session manager wouldn't restart it when I killed it. * Ran killall metacity; sleep 1; fvwm * Saved my session That seems essentially the same thing as you've done? Either there is a difference in our configuration, or the splashscreen that comes with RH 8.0 is different somehow than the normal Gnome splashscreen. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gnome 2 and FVWM
At work we just migrated to Red Hat 8.0. The WM that comes with Gnome is _sooo_ sad and pathetic that I couldn't stand it for more than a few seconds, so I switched back to FVWM, although I want to keep the Gnome setup (panel, etc.) because we have some company customizations, etc. there. Overall I'm not having too many problems (except with Nautilus, but I'll deal with that). But, one thing that's annoying is that the Gnome splash screen never disappears by itself. It goes along showing the icons of all the stuff it's loading until it gets to (I suppose) the WM, then it just sits there. I can click on it and it goes away, so it's not show-stopping, but it is annoying. I suspect that the splash screen is waiting for some kind of notification from the WM that it's up and running before it proceeds; I don't remember having this problem with Gnome 1.4 on my Debian box so I guess it's new in Gnome 2 (or, *shudder*, in Bluecurve specifically?) Anyone know what's up here? I'm using FVWM 2.5.6. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The fvwm Ethical License
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: dv *Shrug* This discussion is becoming moot. I will not tolerate dv anymore that my work takes a part in killing. If the only way to dv do it is to stop development of fvwm and somehow prevent that fvwm dv is distributed, then I have to do my best to make that happen. We cannot agree to these conditions: we won't allow you to either stop the development of FVWM or prevent FVWM from being distributed. Peace. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ethics and some straight talking
%% Bob Woodside [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...who of the subscribers of the original message would sign it and who would not? This release is dedicated to the victims of the war in Iraq that began in March, 2003. The following people, many of them users or developers of fvwm, would like to express their sympathies to those affected: bw I would subscribe that without a heartbeat's hesitation. I have no problem whatsoever with dedications like this. Although I'm not sure I subscribed to the original so maybe I don't count :). -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The fvwm Ethical License
Hi Dominik... There has been a lot of discussion about whether the ideas expressed in the ethical license are really ethical or not (is it ethical to kill a person? Is it ethical to not kill a person who is directly threatening yourself or your children? Etc.) This kind of thing is, unfortunately, a morass from which there is very little chance of breaking free. It is _this_ aspect that I want to address: you have lamented that this has become politicized but you must take full responsibility for that yourself: there is no politics here except in this context. Indeed, my understanding was that this was the entire purpose: you wanted to politicize FVWM to keep it from being used in a manner which you disagreed with. The problem is that ethics are not absolute, and they are not even universal. What if some other FVWM developer is fervently opposed to abortion, looks at your license and decides that the underlying theme of non-violence should also apply to the unborn. They add their own ethical license stating that FVWM should not be used by abortion clinics or other medical facilities that practice abortion, nor should it be used by facilities like Planned Parenthood that provide counseling that includes abortion as a viable alternative. Next, another FVWM developer adds another ethical license which is against all forms of suicide, including doctor-assisted suicide for terminal patients in great pain, and doesn't allow FVWM to be used by any facility which supports or even researches this. Then someone adds an ethical license stating that FVWM should not be used by any group that does not support the war on drugs--or that it should not be used by any group that _does_ support the war on drugs. Next we might have licenses regarding homosexuality, or adoption by homosexual couples, or pro/con gay marriage, or whatever. And so it goes. I generally consider slippery slope arguments as somewhat weak, but I believe this is a real danger here. Once we accept that an open source software project is a legitimate platform for political (or, call it ethical if you prefer) agendas, where does it stop? You may say well, it's not a real license so people can just ignore it. But people who are really ethical _won't_ just ignore it: if they are ethical they will feel bound to not use the software if they don't agree with _all_ of the ideas espoused in the ethical license(s). With enough of these sorts of licenses there may well be almost no one who happens to hold all of these ethical beliefs simultaneously. So what do you have then? Ironically enough, what you probably have is that only people who are _not_ ethical will be using your software... to me this seems counterproductive in the extreme. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The fvwm Ethical License
%% [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dv Legally, fvwm is distributed under the terms of the GNU General dv Public License. However, the events following the 9th of dv September, 2001 I assume you mean 11 Sep 2001. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fvwm license going to be revoked
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: I do not agree with your interpretations of the GPL WRT the legality of restricting use, but since we appear to have come down to you're wrong vs. no you're wrong, it doesn't seem productive to continue with that :) Copyright covers only certain activities: modification, redistribution, _public_ performances, translation to another language, etc. Consider: when you buy a book at the store you do not have to have a special license to _read_ that book; you won't find any language in any book that explicitly gives you that right. Similarly, if you buy a CD you don't need a license to allow you to listen to it. dv But we are not talking about buying or selling a product. If we dv sold fvwm, then the act of selling would imply the right for the dv buyer to use what she bought. But we don't sell fvwm and thus the dv legal framework of the selling/buying transaction do not apply. Copyright has nothing to do with buying and selling: that is contract law. Copyright is in effect regardless of whether or not you paid anything for the work. Library books are still copyright, even though you didn't pay for them. Books given as birthday presents, or CDs given away for promotion, are still copyright even though they were free. If you pick up a magazine lying on the street, copyright does not prevent you from reading that magazine. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fvwm license going to be revoked
%% [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: dv On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 01:08:46PM -0500, Paul Smith wrote: %% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. dv As I quoted above, it touches only what is in the scope of the dv GPL. It does *not* restrict adding licenses for what is *outside* dv of its scope. I don't agree. The GPL explicitly says that the code must be released under the GPL, full stop. There is no exception that allows you to add any extra terms or conditions as long as they don't conflict with the terms and conditions in the GPL... in fact the GPL specifically forbids sublicensing. The license also _explicitly_ says that The act of running the Program is not restricted. So you cannot add a restriction on running the program that does not directly contradict the terms of the GPL, and you must release the derivative under the terms of the GPL. It does not allow for any extra terms or conditions to be applied, even if they are not directly addressed by the GPL. dv I disagree. If this was the case, it would for example forbid you dv to deny your children access to a software under GPL that you dv think is not appropriate for them. No. The GPL only talks about your obligations if you distribute the code. Basically it says that (to use your example) if you give your children a GPL'd program you have to make available to them the source code to that as well. Nowhere does it require you to give it to them in the first place. Anyway, children are minors and so do not have all the rights and privileges of adults. Licenses which _REMOVE_ freedoms that copyright law would normally allow, such as most EULAs etc. and the license you are proposing, _must_ be agreed to in some affirmative way. Otherwise they can simply not agree to your license and use the product as allowed by copyright. Using a product you own for the purposes which it was designed is definitely not violating a copyright. dv My point of view is: the GPL does not grant anybody the right to dv *run* the software. By doing so, you break the law. Copyright covers only certain activities: modification, redistribution, _public_ performances, translation to another language, etc. Consider: when you buy a book at the store you do not have to have a special license to _read_ that book; you won't find any language in any book that explicitly gives you that right. Similarly, if you buy a CD you don't need a license to allow you to listen to it. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fvwm license going to be revoked
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. dv Yes, I agree with that analysis. The crucial point is that the dv GPL and a license to run a software are orthogonal, as stated by dv the passage I quoted. Since running the software is definitely an dv activity other than copying, distribution and modification it is dv outside its [the GPL's] scope. And if it's outside the GPL's dv scope it can not violate the GPL. I don't believe that's true: the GPL requires that the combined work be released under the GPL, and exactly the GPL. It does not allow for any extra terms or conditions to be applied, even if they are not directly addressed by the GPL. Also note that people do not have to agree to the GPL, or to your license. There is no click wrap etc. on FVWM so there is no way for people to affirmatively agree to the licensing terms: they are required to do so. The GPL works because it _ADDS_ freedoms that copyright law would normally not allow: modification, redistribution, etc. So, if you don't agree to the license the FSF doesn't care: that just means you can't do any of those things. The only way you can do them is by agreeing to the license. Licenses which _REMOVE_ freedoms that copyright law would normally allow, such as most EULAs etc. and the license you are proposing, _must_ be agreed to in some affirmative way. Otherwise they can simply not agree to your license and use the product as allowed by copyright. Using a product you own for the purposes which it was designed is definitely not violating a copyright. dv By the way, the fvwm license already violates the GPL by dv restricting the right to modify the sources: dv Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software dv and its documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby dv granted, provided that the above copyright notice appear in all dv copies and that both that copyright notice and this permission dv notice appear in supporting documentation I don't see any restriction. You mean because it says the copyright notice must be present? That's no problem: the GPL itself makes the same requirement. dv (note the explicit permission to use fvwm - which can be easily dv circumvented by deriving a new window manager from fvwm). Perhaps... although the new version would begin with the same restrictions as the previous one. Only if the license allowed you to change the licensing could you do so, even on a derived version. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fvwm license going to be revoked
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: dv You hit the bull's eye, Dan. I have always been a fervent dv advocate of the GPL because I believe in unversal cooperation dv instead of competition, and developing open source software was my dv way to contribute to that idea. Now I had to learn that I was in dv error regarding the GPL, and that open source software *is* a dv political thing. I don't get it... it wasn't political before this thread started, was it? dv As I said in some other mail, I think the GPL is incompatible to dv the original copyright by Evans Sutherland and Robert Nation and dv I thus was never allowed to impose it on fvwm unmodified. I don't believe that's true. I remember when this was done and IIRC we asked around and got permission to make this change from most everyone involved. Anyway, the original license, IIRC, does not conflict with the GPL. If you go back to the code as it was before the GPL started to be used then of course you can change the licensing on that version--if _that's_ allowed, which it might not be either; we'd have to check the license. dv Tim suggested to make a public plea for peace, similar to the dv proclamation we made after the attack on the World Trade Center. dv But I believe this is not enough. I would like to add a statement dv about the fair use of fvwm to the license, and obligate *all* dv users and developers (including myself) to read it and to make a dv donation to aforementioned non-government organisations, no matter dv how small the donation might be. Again, this is a violation of the GPL and so can only be imposed if everyone with copyright interest in the code agrees to change the license. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fvwm license going to be revoked
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: There is absolutely no possible way a license with clauses such as the ones you described previously can coexist with GPL'd code, no matter how carefully crafted or how much time is spent on it. dv Well, maybe there is. The GPL covers only the right to dv distribute, modify and copy the software: dv Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not dv covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of dv running the Program is not restricted, ... dv Strictly speaking, the GPL forgets to grant anybody the right of dv using the software. So, as long as I do not care about whether dv the source code or binaries are copied, modified or distributed, I dv think I can still restrict running it. I don't think this is the case. The key point is not whether you can restrict things that the GPL doesn't address, it's whether the resulting license is compatible with the GPL. The relevant section is this: b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. ^^^ And this: But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. It must be entirely released under the GPL itself, or it doesn't meet the legal criteria. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: configure broken with 2.5.5
%% Ben Winslow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bw After a little experimentation and research, it seems that nested bw functions are forbidden by ISO C but allowed by ANSI Not sure where you get this: no C standard I've ever seen (ANSI or ISO) has ever allowed nested function definitions. There is a GCC-specific extension that allows them; I don't know which, if any, other compilers might also provide this extension. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: configure broken with 2.5.5
%% Dan Espen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: de Guess I've been fooled by configure again. Oh that rude autoconf, behaving exactly as described in its manual yet again!! How tiresome! :) In this case you actually got fooled by GCC, which has this super-advanced extension that made what is unquestionably a syntax error in any standard compiler, only a warning in GCC. The moral of the story is that when it comes to portability, autoconf is no panacea and no substitute for actually trying it on lots of different systems and with lots of different compilers. At least two of each, anyway :). I know that can be difficult these days where GCC is so prevalent and most anything else costs $$... -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: compiler warning/bug in FvwmScript/script.y
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: dv When I compiled with -Wall -Werror -g I got no warnings at all, dv but with -Wall -Werror -g -O2 it worked fine. Some kinds of warnings are not found unless you compile with optimization. Enabling the optimizer allows the compiler to look much more deeply at your code, and that can enable it to discover problems that can't be found by a simple one-pass compilation. The most common such warnings are for unused variable: without optimization on the compiler doesn't know enough about your code to realize that a variable is never used; only with optimization turned on will it keep enough state throughout the function to deliver that warning. Note that the level of optimization doesn't matter; even -O is good enough to find the extra warnings (but -O2 is the most common, and so best-tested, level of optimization in GCC). FYI. BTW, all of the above applies to GCC only; other compilers obviously may have different behavior. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: compiler warning/bug in FvwmScript/script.y
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes: dv Heck! Why isn't that mentioned in the gcc info page?! You mean like this: These warnings are possible only in optimizing compilation, because they require data flow information that is computed only when optimizing. If you don't specify `-O', you simply won't get these warnings. ? :) dv So I can't have debuggable code and many important warnings at the dv same time? Yep. I agree it's a drag--I've often felt that the -O0 flag or something should have a side-effect of doing the optimization warning checks, but then not actually optimizing the resulting code. Actually I'm not sure about many important warnings; I think the only two warnings which are enabled only for optimization are uninitialized variables (which is certainly important, I grant you) and nonvolatile automatic variables being changed by longjmp... which is rarely useful. I misspoke last time about the unused variables: those are warned even without -O. It's the uninitialized variables that aren't warned unless you enable -O. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: compiler warning/bug in FvwmScript/script.y
%% Cameron Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | Sorry, I somehow missed that paragraph. I just can't operate info | :-/ cs You may want my man script, which presents info as one of the cs choices for manual pages. More to the point, it parses info files cs and turns them into a single flat text document, which of course cs you browse with your pager as with ordinary manual entries. Info is quite accessible if you spend a few minutes learning the command set--there are only about 10 keys :). In particular, the s (search) and i (index lookup) are critically important to know. Once you know these you can do more with Info that you can do with either man pages or HTML. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FvwmProxy 0.91 ready for CVS
%% Dominik Vogt fvwm-workers@fvwm.org writes:
dv - Removed C++ style comments
dv This is not allowed in C:
dv {
dv int x;
dv x = 1;
dv int y;
dv }
Just a pedantic note; both of the above _are_ legal in C, as of the ISO
1999 standard. However, I agree with Dominik that we should avoid them
in FVWM as compilers that support this syntax are still not ubiquitous.
--
---
Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools
Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist
---
These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them.
--
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Re: FVWM: Re: Fvwm 2.5.4
%% Peter Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: pm STOP sending these announcements to me. I have requested you to stop pm several times. You are subscribed to the fvwm-announce mailing list. So, you get all the FVWM announcements. If you no longer want to be subscribed to the fvwm-announce mailing list, there are instructions on how to unsubscribe yourself at end of _EVERY MESSAGE_: Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-announce in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] These instructions were also sent to you when you subscribed. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Defunct processes?
Hm. I upgraded to the latest Debian testing stuff (including a new libc) and now the problem has disappeared. Oh well :). -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Defunct processes?
%% Smith, Paul [BL60:430:EXCH][EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: sp The issue is that any process I start either from fvwm directly or sp from FvwmButtons will go defunct after I exit it. It stays sp defunct forever, with a parent of the fvwm process, until I sp restart fvwm. No one has any idea what might be going on here? -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Defunct processes?
%% Dan Espen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: de Have you set ExecUseShell or $SHELL? I set ExecUseShell to /bin/sh. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Defunct processes?
I'm seeing a very bizarre behavior on my Debian GNU/Linux box (3.0). I'm using the official packaged version of fvwm from unstable (2.4.10-2). I had this same problem with the fvwm from testing (2.4.8) so I upgraded, but upgrading didn't help. I'm sure that this has not always behaved this way, but I suppose I might not have noticed it for a while; I don't often look at my complete process list. I haven't modified my .fvwmrc or anything in months. The issue is that any process I start either from fvwm directly or from FvwmButtons will go defunct after I exit it. It stays defunct forever, with a parent of the fvwm process, until I restart fvwm. For example: # ps -aef | grep defunct psmith 26363 26244 0 10:22 ?00:00:00 [FvwmButtons defunct] psmith 26368 26244 0 10:22 ?00:00:00 [rterm defunct] psmith 26572 26244 0 10:32 ?00:00:00 [rxvt defunct] psmith 26713 26244 0 10:37 ?00:00:00 [rterm defunct] psmith 26718 26244 0 10:37 ?00:00:00 [rterm defunct] psmith 26765 26244 0 10:44 ?00:00:00 [rterm defunct] # ps -aef | grep 26244 psmith 26244 1 0 10:22 ?00:00:00 /usr/bin/fvwm -d :0.0 -s -clientId 11c020967f9887360980258690033 -restore /home/psmith/.fvwm/.fs-restart-lemming:0.0 ... The FvwmButtons above is because I killed the old one and restarted the module, to see if changing my FvwmButtons commands like Exec rxvt ... to Exec exec rxvt ... would help but it didn't. I don't get it: is there some kind of known issue with fvwm where it's not waiting for children? Or, maybe this is an issue with libc in Debian or something like that? -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: odd highlighed window problem with 2.4.9
If you're setting it up from scratch I suggest you go with viewcvs instead of cvsweb; the former is nicer (and, unless things have changed recently, much better supported): http://viewcvs.sourceforge.net/ -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: keys...
%% Sam Izzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or just press the num-lock key again ;-) See question 0.1 in the FAQ. si Oh my god, what an idiot am i!!! I feel so stupid :) Don't feel stupid. You'll notice that's question 0.1 in the FAQ... there's a reason for that after all :). -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL: http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: Re: simple question: how execute xterm and then a script?
%% Jason L Tibbitts III [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jlt Anything which trips the filters gets sent to me for approval. jlt It can occasionally take me a little while to approve things, jlt especially when they come in while I'm asleep. The filters are jlt extensive. Why do you think this list sees so little spam when jlt anyone can post to it? Spam and viruses sent to the list jlt outnumber legitimate traffic by a factor of at least five to one. I'm sure you've seen this; it seems like an extremely promising approach to me: http://www.paulgraham.com/spam.html I wonder how long it will take to get procmail/mailman/etc. modules that implement this feature. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: changes to fvwm that have not been included in 2.4.5 for unknown reasons
%% Alexander Kotelnikov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ak You are about this works, and I am about this is wrong. Shell ak is not the one program who exec. It works is far more important to us than it follows the standard. There are many situations out there where following the standard yields results that don't work, on at least some systems. We are developing a portable window manager (that means it works on more than just Linux!) not trying to force everyone to change their operating system to adhere to the standard. In FVWM we run into more of that than most tools: you wouldn't believe how many hacks we've had to add to work around this or that misuse or abuse of X, Motif, or whatever on various systems. ak Damn, I do. Before distributing fvwm24_convert in debian fvwm ak package I add #! line. That's your prerogative. This is free software. Do what you like. In Debian you always know where Perl is, so hardcoding it is a very reasonable thing to do. We are not creating a Debian package, or a Linux package--or even a POSIX package. We are creating a _portable_ window manager package. The fact that you want to make that change in the Debian package is _not_ a bug in FVWM. A bug in FVWM would be that it doesn't _work_ when used as expected. ak BTW just tried to execl'ed and failed with Exec format error. If you can think of any reasonable excuse to invoke the fvmwrc converter script using execl(), we can talk further. Allowing the script to work in a wide variety of situations is far more important than making it work with some cobbled-up example that no one would ever use in real life. Hardcoding the path is _wrong_ in a number of situations. The installer of FVWM is not always the user of FVWM, and the installer and user may well not have the same environment. The Perl program that configure finds during installation might well not be available to user. For example: I build FVWM for Solaris and install it on an NFS-mounted shared tools partition. There's no Perl standard on Solaris (at least not the versions we're using). On my system, I've installed Perl in /usr/local/bin because I'm testing a newer version of Perl; most people don't have a /usr/local/bin/perl. If configure finds my /usr/local/bin/perl and hardcodes that into the convert script, and I install it, then no one can run that script but me. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: changes to fvwm that have not been included in 2.4.5 for unknown reasons
%% Alexander Kotelnikov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ak I always thought, that it is supposed, that all scripts have ak #! interpretator ak as the first line It's a good idea, but not necessary. If there is no known magic value at the beginning of the file then the kernel just gives it to /bin/sh. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: perl invocation
%% Mikhael Goikhman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: mg Well, the following is even better if we want the first perl in $PATH: mg #!/usr/bin/env perl Unfortunately you can't rely on env always being in /usr/bin. There most assuredly are systems where it isn't. Catch-22. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: changes to fvwm that have not been included in 2.4.5 for unknown reasons
%% Alexander Kotelnikov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mikhael This is not correct. It is standard for unux kernels to pass Mikhael a text executable script to /bin/sh by default. ak LIE. Read standards, please. Single UNIX says: If the process image file is not a valid executable object, execlp() and execvp() use the contents of that file as standard input to a command interpreter conforming to system(). In this case, the command interpreter becomes the new process image. I can't recall any UNIX in the last 10+ years that didn't do this. For example, from various exec* man pages: If the header of a file isn't recognized (the attempted execve returned ENOEXEC), these functions will execute the shell with the path of the file as its first argument. (If this attempt fails, no further searching is done.) Or: If the new process file is not an executable object file, execlp() and execvp() use the contents of that file as standard input to the shell. -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at URL:http://www.fvwm.org/. To unsubscribe from the list, send unsubscribe fvwm-workers in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
