Re: FVWM: Feature request: desktop pages larger than the screen?
On Sat, Oct 01, 2005 at 10:55:27AM +0200, Viktor Griph wrote: On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Zack Brown wrote: I've confirmed that there is no way to control scrolling over an xorg virtual desktop. If the mouse brushes the edge of the screen, you scroll. Period. :-( So this too turns out not to solve my basic problem: How can I have over-maximized xterms, with the window decorations off the screen, without encroaching on neighboring pages? My sense here is just that it can't be done, and I'll be stuck with one of the suboptimal workarounds already suggested here. And I guess my suggestion still stands, that FVWM implement some kind of control over the page-size, to decouple the page size and screen size. You can emulate most of the functionality you want with a proper fvwm configuration. Sett the attached config as an example. It can of cource be extended to do more things. Right now it defines a function MaximizeFullScreen that Maximize a window to cover the entire screen and not have borders. It then uses EdgeCommand to fake scrolling up to a hidden title outside the screen at north edge, and scrolling down at the south. It uses FvwmEvent to make sure nothing goes over to another page after a page jump. That's very impressive. I may try that, but for now I seem to be having success with the every-other-page approach. Thanks for all the help. I now have pretty much everything I want: 1) very large desktop grid 2) oversized xterms that emulate text mode 3) one key Raise and Lower Pager 4) memory of the screen location on each desktop 5) automatic memory of xterm locations, directories, and running applications, for instant restart after a crash I'm pretty well fixed now. Thanks again! Be well, Zack Note that the config requires 2.5.14 or later for the use of the -x option of FvwmPerl. /Viktor -- Zack Brown
Re: FVWM: Feature request: desktop pages larger than the screen?
On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 09:56:16PM +, Mikhael Goikhman wrote: On 29 Sep 2005 13:35:57 -0700, Zack Brown wrote: On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 04:53:35PM +, Mikhael Goikhman wrote: On 29 Sep 2005 09:04:06 -0700, Zack Brown wrote: It would be nice to be able to specify the page size at startup. A lot of folks run maximized xterms with no window decorations, just because if they expanded the window to keep the decorations outside of the screen, the decorations would encroach on neighboring pages. Having a page size larger than the screen size would fix this. I think you simply want to have a command to switch a window into full-screen mode and back. Just use this: DestroyFunc FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen AddToFunc FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen + I ThisWindow (Maximized) WindowStyle Title, Borders + I TestRc (!Match) WindowStyle !Title, !Borders + I TestRc (!Match) Raise + I TestRc (!Match) UpdateStyles + I Maximize ewmhiwa Key F11 A SC Pick FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen I considered this, but there are problems. For one thing, having maximized, borderless xterms right next to each other leaves no empty desktop area to click in to call up a menu. This is not really a priblem, you may bind any mouse or keyboard action in W (client window). And if you prefer an empty desktop place, then do Maximize 100 95 or something like this. For another, a maximized xterm with no borders will extend slightly into the neighbording pages, which is ugly. This is not true, a maximized window fully fits one page only. In the case of a terminal (that defines a step-like resize) there will be usually a free space left even with Maximize 100, not the other way. Variable page sizes would solve this problem elegantly. I don't think so. Can you give some reason? I don't see any drawback to variable-sized pages. It's just an elegant solution to any situation where you want portions of the window to extend beyond the edge of the screen, without encroaching on neighboring pages. I don't see how variable-sized pages may solve any problem at all. They solve the problem of window decorations encroaching on neighboring pages. Do you also mean one page may be 800x600 and another 1200x900? Will sticky windows just disappear in the hole? I don't mean that each page will have a variable size relative to each other page. I mean that all pages will have the same size, but they will not have a 1-to-1 ratio with the screen. So, I may have an 800x600 screen, and all my pages could be set to 830x630. See? It's the same grid, no weird shapes in the grid, no bizarre twists. Just the screen is a little smaller than each grid element. Please give concrete numbers, what is your resolution, what is your border width, title height, and what do you suggest for the page size. So, I have my 800x600 screen in this hypothetical example. I set my page size to 830x630 in the FVWM config file. I also set my desktop to have 30x40 pages. And I set myself to have 12 desktops. Now I start up FVWM. The monitor goes to graphics mode. My background color pops up. The pager pops up. I'm ready to use X. I give the hotkey to pop up an xterm. The xterm pops up, black background, white text. It is over-maximized, so the window decoration is outside the screen. I start working on my favorite coding project. Now I want to do a compile. I give the hotkey to go one page to the right. I give the hotkey to create another xterm. this will be my compile window. I start the compile going, and give the hotkey to go back to my coding page, i.e. one page to the left. Now I do more coding for awhile, but I want to check email. I give the hotkey to flip over to desktop 3, where I usually do email. I create a new xterm and start reading email. Now I want to code again. I flip back to deskop 0, to the page I was at previously. I keep coding. You get the picture. I keep working in this fashion, creating one xterm per page, in clusters of pages that represent a single project. Over time, and with good organizational habits, I have 50 or so page clusters holding my ongoing projects. At some point I want to access the menus for this window. I press the mouse against the top of the screen. The screen scrolls up slightly, exposing the window decorations. These decorations do not encroach on the screen above because the page size is big enough to accomodate them. Now I click on one of the buttons in the window decoration, and make my selection. Some operation is performed. I press the mouse against the bottom of the screen, and the screen scrolls down, bringing me back to my full-screen xterm. I continue my work. See? This is a nice, elegant way to work, made possible by page sizes that are larger than the actual screen. Be well, Zack Regards, Mikhael. -- Zack Brown
Re: FVWM: Feature request: desktop pages larger than the screen?
On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 04:53:35PM +, Mikhael Goikhman wrote: On 29 Sep 2005 09:04:06 -0700, Zack Brown wrote: It would be nice to be able to specify the page size at startup. A lot of folks run maximized xterms with no window decorations, just because if they expanded the window to keep the decorations outside of the screen, the decorations would encroach on neighboring pages. Having a page size larger than the screen size would fix this. I think you simply want to have a command to switch a window into full-screen mode and back. Just use this: DestroyFunc FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen AddToFunc FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen + I ThisWindow (Maximized) WindowStyle Title, Borders + I TestRc (!Match) WindowStyle !Title, !Borders + I TestRc (!Match) Raise + I TestRc (!Match) UpdateStyles + I Maximize ewmhiwa Key F11 A SC Pick FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen I considered this, but there are problems. For one thing, having maximized, borderless xterms right next to each other leaves no empty desktop area to click in to call up a menu. For another, a maximized xterm with no borders will extend slightly into the neighbording pages, which is ugly. Variable page sizes would solve this problem elegantly. I don't think so. Can you give some reason? I don't see any drawback to variable-sized pages. It's just an elegant solution to any situation where you want portions of the window to extend beyond the edge of the screen, without encroaching on neighboring pages. Be well, Zack Regards, Mikhael. -- Zack Brown
Re: FVWM: Feature request: desktop pages larger than the screen?
On 29 Sep 2005 13:35:57 -0700, Zack Brown wrote: On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 04:53:35PM +, Mikhael Goikhman wrote: On 29 Sep 2005 09:04:06 -0700, Zack Brown wrote: It would be nice to be able to specify the page size at startup. A lot of folks run maximized xterms with no window decorations, just because if they expanded the window to keep the decorations outside of the screen, the decorations would encroach on neighboring pages. Having a page size larger than the screen size would fix this. I think you simply want to have a command to switch a window into full-screen mode and back. Just use this: DestroyFunc FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen AddToFunc FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen + I ThisWindow (Maximized) WindowStyle Title, Borders + I TestRc (!Match) WindowStyle !Title, !Borders + I TestRc (!Match) Raise + I TestRc (!Match) UpdateStyles + I Maximize ewmhiwa Key F11 A SC Pick FuncFvwmMaximizeFullScreen I considered this, but there are problems. For one thing, having maximized, borderless xterms right next to each other leaves no empty desktop area to click in to call up a menu. This is not really a priblem, you may bind any mouse or keyboard action in W (client window). And if you prefer an empty desktop place, then do Maximize 100 95 or something like this. For another, a maximized xterm with no borders will extend slightly into the neighbording pages, which is ugly. This is not true, a maximized window fully fits one page only. In the case of a terminal (that defines a step-like resize) there will be usually a free space left even with Maximize 100, not the other way. Variable page sizes would solve this problem elegantly. I don't think so. Can you give some reason? I don't see any drawback to variable-sized pages. It's just an elegant solution to any situation where you want portions of the window to extend beyond the edge of the screen, without encroaching on neighboring pages. I don't see how variable-sized pages may solve any problem at all. Do you also mean one page may be 800x600 and another 1200x900? Will sticky windows just disappear in the hole? Please give concrete numbers, what is your resolution, what is your border width, title height, and what do you suggest for the page size. Regards, Mikhael.
Re: FVWM: Feature request: desktop pages larger than the screen?
Zack Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It would be nice to be able to specify the page size at startup. A lot of folks run maximized xterms with no window decorations, just because if they expanded the window to keep the decorations outside of the screen, the decorations would encroach on neighboring pages. Having a page size larger than the screen size would fix this. If you don't want overlap, use desks, not pages. -- Dan Espen E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: Feature request: desktop pages larger than the screen?
On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 06:58:21PM -0400, Dan Espen wrote: Zack Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It would be nice to be able to specify the page size at startup. A lot of folks run maximized xterms with no window decorations, just because if they expanded the window to keep the decorations outside of the screen, the decorations would encroach on neighboring pages. Having a page size larger than the screen size would fix this. If you don't want overlap, use desks, not pages. But that would lose all the 2D navigation ability of having xterms in different pages of a desktop. Be well, Zack -- Dan Espen E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zack Brown
