Re: Return to PowerPC?
On 7/7/09 1:59 AM, tortoise at cymraeg...@gmail.com wrote: It was true back then. Problem was all the old 68k code in the old MacOS. Here's the problem. When Spindler launched the PowerMacs, though icredible velocity was promised, the reality was that the machines were mere slow Quadra emulators that made one or another task more quickly than their predecessors. In fact, many people said the PowerMacs only completely surpassed the performance quality of the Quadras in 1997, when Mac OS 8 was released three years after the last Quadra was produced! The OS-chip harmony just came back in 1997/1998, when the G3s (designed intrernally to work with the Mac OS) substituted the 603s/604s and PowerPC-specific versions of the Mac OS (8.5 and 9) were released. But by that time the old Mac OS was already in the process of being substituted by the Mac OS X, with its completely different archicteture and paradigms. -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: stream requires windows media player?
On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 01:14 -0400, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:36 PM, MacGuymacgu...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, here's the problem: There's a really cool radio station online that I like... Pandora will play anything you like and let you program it too. Is it better than that? Pandora will work on any browser. Not really. It will only work in your browser if you were careless about security and installed Flash. It won't work in any of my browsers. Good day, Ralph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: G4 PowerMac 500MHz Sawtooth won't shut down
On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Timo Virkkala wrote: I'm trying to revive a G4 box. I pulled a hard drive and memory from a working 400MHz Sawtooth into a 500MHz Sawtooth. But it won't shut down from the software. It restarts. I have an old PowerPC 5500 at one of my schools that used to behave this way. Turns out that something was pressing against the back of the computer and this caused it to restart after shut-down. I moved the Mac a little on the desk and removed and re-seated the various cables that were connected... and it solved the problem. Larry --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BW startup error
2009/7/6 glen glenst...@yahoo.com: I've just bought a Sonnet Encore G4/500 upgrade for my elderly but 100% reliable Rev 1 BW G3/400. (I want to try Mac OS X Server 10.4 on it, and this requires a G4 CPU.) Snag is, when I fit the new chip, the Mac won't boot. I don't get a Sad Mac or a crash tone or anything, just 5 short clear beeps from the speaker. It sounds much more like a PC error beep than a Mac one! Did you update the firmware on your BW? Be sure that you follow installation directions exactly or the Sonnet will not work. You should have gotten a CD from Sonnet when you bought your upgrade. The CD contains an installer that will upgrade the firmware on your Mac, and this must be done before you install the Sonnet Encore G4. Sonnet has downloads of the Firmware Updater Installer and the SonnetCache Enabler at: http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/processorupgradecards.html I tried both the MacOS 9 OS X versions of this. The OS X one just caused a kernel panic, every single time. The MacOS 9 one ran but the instructions for getting into firmware programming mode were incorrect, when I googled up the correct ones, it didn't run. OWC has the Blue White G4 Enabler at: http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/software.cfm One or the other firmware patches should do the trick. The G4 Enabler needs to be applied in OS 9, not sure about the Sonnet Updater. --glen This one, thankfully, did work fine and got my chip working, after 2-3hr of fiddling. So many thanks! Unfortunately my mere 500MHz G4 came up with overheating warnings almost immediately and I had to shut the Mac down, sharpish. I've cleaned remounted the Apple heatsink with some fresh TIM and mounted an old Pentium II fan on top. Now it runs nice cool, but the fan is too big I can't close the Mac... [*Sigh*] However, it's working, and Mac OS X Server 10.4.7 is now happily installing on a mirror pair of 17GB UltraSCSI 3 disks. I also plan to hook up an external cabinet with 4 x 37GB UltraSCSI 3 disks for network storage. I'm hoping that OS X server will let me make a true RAID of these, as opposed to the stripe set which is all that ordinary OS X 10.4 would create. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:59 PM, tortoise wrote: t was true back then. Problem was all the old 68k code in the old MacOS. Back in '98 a mac with Linux felt like flying compared to the macos crawling. The argument had absolutely nothing to do with the OS running on the system. The industry comparisons between RISC and CISC were made on the basis of assembler code. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
t was true back then. Problem was all the old 68k code in the old MacOS. Back in '98 a mac with Linux felt like flying compared to the macos crawling. The argument had absolutely nothing to do with the OS running on the system. The industry comparisons between RISC and CISC were made on the basis of assembler code. -- Bruce Johnson Apple going back to PPC would be like Ford going back to starting-handles, manual advance-retard for the ignition, etc., etc. Apple are Intel-powered. Live with it. Nope, I'm not feeling superior, 'cos I've had my dual G5 2.0 for only 10 months, and it will be quite some time before bank-balance (and wife) permit the purchase of a Mac Pro. Ted --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/7 tortoise cymraeg...@gmail.com: IBM had problems with their design which was why they teamed up with APPLE. at the time theirs was the worst performing and selling. Don't forget Motorola was in there too, coming in especially with the G4. IBM had problems? Not as I recall. POWER was doing great. PowerPC was merely an adaptation of the high-end POWER multi-chip processors into a lower-end single-chip device utilising the Motorola 88000 bus, designed for PC-type kit. The 680x0 was going nowhere, the 88000 was dead in the water, and both Apple Motorola needed something new. For IBM it was just a chance to get into another segment of the market. Sun and SGI always had the better designs in the 90s but pricey too. Nevertheless SGI cornered the movie business and Sun the web server market. The g5 got apple into the big time. But I think that they have blown it now. Intel centers on the lower end of the market now with their low power cpus. For high end machines clearly IBM and AMD excel. These are the cpus preferred by scientists and engineers -- they are not the same as the consumer versions admittedly but those benefit from this research. I know Bruce will argue with this but I am speaking statistically of course. AMD are really struggling now. The Sledgehammer µarch was stunning and killed Itanium; it moved the x86 world onto 64-bit, although 99% of machines still run 32-bit S/W, just like for a decade, 99% of the 32-bit 386 machines ran 16-bit S/W. But Intel turned on a dime - very impressive for such a large company - moved the Netburst µarch P4s onto x86-64 then released the really very good Core2 line based on the Pentium III (ergo, Pentium Pro) µarch. AMD retained a big lead in memory bandwidth through HyperTransport, but Intel has had a big edge in raw CPU power. Now, with Core i7 and soon Core i5, Intel is racing up on memory bandwidth too. And it's cleaning up at the low end with the Atom chip, too. Frankly, unless AMD pulls off a miracle, I think it's looking /very/ bad for it. Even Via's Nano has disappointed in the market. Perhaps an unholy AMD/Via/nVidia merger will happen, with very-lower-power-but-good-graphics ARM cores, low-power Via cores and some kind of hybrid-multicore CPU/GPU beast for the consumer market. It would be interesting, at least. Clearly apple is a consumer company. Although the video industry helps, many specialists have complained the intel macs are not so good for them as the g5 was. (Intel centric) Benchmarks aside, this is user experience. Even SSE4 can't match Altivec, it's true - at least from what I've heard - but few people really need SIMD instructions. They were a marketing ploy, a way to use extra CPU acreage. The real benefits came from growing onboard caches, not from all the SIMD stuff. By the way they have POWER5+ intellistations on closeout for $5000. 2x2ghz dual core, 4GB RAM, 32MB Cache on-chip, dual SCSI drives, and free monitor. (G5 is Power4). No OS. Put Linux on and run Leopard with MOL. Sounds nice! I always wished IBM did a deal and ported OS X Server to its POWER servers. Apple once sold AIX boxes; I see no reason a reverse deal couldn't have worked. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/6 PeterH peterh5...@rattlebrain.com: On Jul 5, 2009, at 10:27 PM, MaGioZal wrote: The RISC had a lot of promises, but many times hadn't delivered them. It's not the processor, it's the implementation. IBM is making huge quantities of PPC RISCs. Sun is still making its RISCs. Well, true, but for how long under Oracle's reign? I wouldn't bet on it. At best, SPARC will be offloaded to Fujitsu or spun out. Intel's CISCs are doing well. To say the least. But one might point out that in a sense, the modern Core2/i5/i7 etc. chips, all derivatives of the Pentium Pro, are in a way superscalar chips that actually run RISC micro-ops underneath, merely with on-the-fly translation from x86 into µops. And, perhaps the oldest architecture in continuous use, the IBM System/360/370/390 (also called z/System), also a CISC, is now in its 45-th year, and shows no signs of being gone any time soon. IBM is a little cagey on this but aren't the modern z9 CPUs based in some way on POWER? -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/6 PeterH peterh5...@rattlebrain.com: On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Mullin9 wrote: Will Apple return to PPC processors? A year or so ago, Apple purchased a fab-less designer and manufacturer of multi-core PPC processors. It is conceivable that Apple may use PPC processors in some future products, but the investment in Intel-based products for the desktop and laptop has been high, and has been largely successful. Snow Leopard will NOT be a universal system: it will be Intel only; so a return to PPC is not bloody likely for MacOS, ever. However another product which is based upon PPC, or another processor which can make effective use of the power-saving technology which was acquired in that Apple purchase of a PPC company seems likely. Perhaps a set-top box or a hand-held box? No, I still don't believe it. The costs of keeping OS X current on 3 architectures - x86, ARM *and* PowerPC - would outweigh the hypothetical benefits of PPC. I think PAsemi's strengths lie in fast multicore RISC. I think the ARM has lots of potential that current implementations, aimed mostly at cellphones, aren't exploiting. I suspect Apple will turn PAsemi over to making very fast, maybe multi-gigahertz, multicore ARM chips. Things that can scream along on mains power and also tick along on a tenth of a Watt when you're on batteries. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/7 Mullin9 ddavidmul...@inbox.com: OOPS I grabbed a PS3 but Swapped the 256MB RAM, with 4 GB RAM stick, wired/ soldered in a 2005 Apple ROM not the EFI, and installed OS X v 10.5 and with 3.2 GHz PPC Cell CPU It Screams. Nope, I don't believe it. I don't believe you could readily adapt Apple's firmware to a PS3. I don't see much point - OS X on PPC is dead, anyway. And finally, Cell isn't /that/ quick - SP-to-RAM access is dismal, in particular - OS X couldn't use the SPs anyway. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
P.A. Semi's flagship product before they were acquired was the PWRficient processor, a PPC dual-core 2.0GHz processor that only consumed 4W power. I even contacted them for information on an evaluation kit (too bad it was $1495!) The PowerPC and POWER lines will live on - I'm just hoping Apple will still be part of the PowerPC program, even in an embedded market... On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Liam Provenlpro...@gmail.com wrote: I think PAsemi's strengths lie in fast multicore RISC. I think the ARM has lots of potential that current implementations, aimed mostly at cellphones, aren't exploiting. I suspect Apple will turn PAsemi over to making very fast, maybe multi-gigahertz, multicore ARM chips. Things that can scream along on mains power and also tick along on a tenth of a Watt when you're on batteries. -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro/Nashville, Tennessee USA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Just a Couple of Random-like Freezes ...
(Apologies to other Listers for the semi-long system log cut and pasted into this list-mail) My newly acquired Digital Audio Dual 533 has experienced a couple of semi-random freezes lately. I say semi-random, since I believe the RAM is good, and one time I was running a fairly old, cpu hog, program called Reason 3.0.5 by Propellerhead. Perhaps it is due to something other than the randomness of bad RAM? It just totally freezes with the screen showing a snapshot of the current (non)activity, requiring a Restart using the Restart button on the case. This has only happened twice over the last few weeks of running my newly acquired DA. Until my second copy of Leopard arrives ... I'm using a clone of Leopard 10.5.7 with a full 1.5GB RAM on a cpu upgraded DA mobo. It was upgraded by someone else with an Apple Digital Audio Dual 533. It has an elderly (legacy) Sonnet Trio PCI card with a 500GB Seagate attached. (I'm getting a new Firmtek SATA controller and a 1TB Seagate 7200.12 today, so I will be changing things around later this afternoon ... I'm not totally trusting of the Trio because of its age ... and a couple of bent-back-into-place ATA connector prongs ... maybe that's it?) I tried looking at the system log through Console, but didn't see anything at the point of the freeze. I did find that Firefox was evidently calling a debugger of some sort. Then on a next restart, the log was gone. Here is a recent log, not associated with a freeze, but showing the Firefox activity, and the log being turned over. Any suggestions how to proceed? Wait for the next freeze, and capture the log right away if possible? What's causing it to be turned over? Leopard protecting itself from a possible corrupt log file? I admit I have taken this clone from my QS 2002, and at one point, got rid of something called /var/db/BootCache.playlist at someone's suggestion, and it seems to be acting up a bit around that as well. I thought files like this were regenerated automatically as needed ... Suggestions welcomed. Jul 7 00:00:16 Acoustic-Piano-Mac newsyslog[570]: logfile turned over Jul 7 00:29:19 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 00:29:34 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 00:51:33 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 00:56:32 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 00:59:08 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:00:16: --- last message repeated 1 time --- Jul 7 01:01:36 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:02:46: --- last message repeated 1 time --- Jul 7 01:02:52 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:04:30: --- last message repeated 1 time --- Jul 7 01:03:41 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:05:16: --- last message repeated 2 times --- Jul 7 01:12:31 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:13:25 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:14:13 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:15:08 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:16:14 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:18:35 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:18:46 Acoustic-Piano-Mac [0x0-0x43043].org.mozilla.firefox[618]: Debugger() was called! Jul 7 01:34:53 Acoustic-Piano-Mac Xbench[678]: *** -[NSConditionLock unlockWithCondition:]: lock (NSConditionLock: 0x1a89e0 '(null)') unlocked when not locked Jul 7 01:34:53 Acoustic-Piano-Mac Xbench[678]: *** Break on _NSLockError() to debug. Jul 7 01:34:57 Acoustic-Piano-Mac Xbench[678]: *** -[NSConditionLock unlockWithCondition:]: lock (NSConditionLock: 0x5b379c0 '(null)') unlocked when not locked Jul 7 01:34:57 Acoustic-Piano-Mac Xbench[678]: *** Break on _NSLockError() to debug. Jul 7 01:39:42 Acoustic-Piano-Mac loginwindow[27]: DEAD_PROCESS: 0 console Jul 7 01:39:42 Acoustic-Piano-Mac shutdown[701]: halt by moonstoneartstudio: Jul 7 01:39:42 Acoustic-Piano-Mac shutdown[701]: SHUTDOWN_TIME: 1246945182 945043 Jul 7 01:39:42 Acoustic-Piano-Mac com.apple.loginwindow[27]: Shutdown NOW! Jul 7 01:39:42 Acoustic-Piano-Mac com.apple.loginwindow[27]: System shutdown time has arrived^G^G Jul 7 01:39:42 Acoustic-Piano-Mac mDNSResponder mDNSResponder-176.3 (Jan 27 2009 14:51:59)[26]: stopping Jul 7 07:14:48 localhost com.apple.launchctl.System[2]: BootCacheControl: could not
VideoLan has finally reached version 1.0.0
In an extremely rare milestone, a valuable open source project has released a 1.0.0 version. It even works on PPC, but only for 10.5. Users of 10.4 are stuck with 0.9.9a. VideoLan has released version 1.0.0 of its software, one of the more robust and format inclusive video players for OS X. http://www.videolan.org Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/7 Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com: P.A. Semi's flagship product before they were acquired was the PWRficient processor, a PPC dual-core 2.0GHz processor that only consumed 4W power. I know. Thus my comment. I even contacted them for information on an evaluation kit (too bad it was $1495!) Owww... The PowerPC and POWER lines will live on - I'm just hoping Apple will still be part of the PowerPC program, even in an embedded market... POWER is fine for now. Few people seem to have registered that, along with the divestment of the laptop desktop lines to Lenovo a few years back, IBM has done the same with x86 servers more recently. PowerPC, though? Specialised chips in consoles, maybe, but they're not really PPC. In battery-powered roles, it's being outcompeted and outperformed by ARM. Perhaps in the embedded market, but if so, we'll never see them, and that is /so/ not Apple's playground. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Not Recognizing A CD
At 7:14 AM -0400 7/6/2009, m.smurph001 wrote: digital audio G4. processor upgrade OS X, which is 10.4.11 The optical drive is a Pioneer OEM DVD burner I got from Other World. It has been giving me error messages when I try to burn CDs of late. Exactly what error messages? Have you cleaned the drive? I have a processor upgrade which required modifying the boot rom so it can run OS X, which is 10.4.11. I screwed up when I modified the boot rom. This computer can run OS X and it can run system 9 under OS X but it can't boot into system 9. Did the burner errors start before or after this processor upgrade? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Liam Provenlpro...@gmail.com wrote: AMD are really struggling now. The Sledgehammer µarch was stunning and killed Itanium; it moved the x86 world onto 64-bit, although 99% of machines still run 32-bit S/W, just like for a decade, 99% of the 32-bit 386 machines ran 16-bit S/W. I assume you're using 99% in a wave your hands sort of way. I very much doubt that only 1% or less of the market is Apple Intel systems which I would consider to be essentially 64-bit in many respects now. And when a majority of those system move to Snow Leopard which seems likely given Apple's aggressive pricing ... they will probably be as 64-bit as you're going to get a system with an x86-64 processor to be. I'm not sure what the thinking is over at Microsoft, but it looks as though they're also moving in that direction. The Windows 7 install media will apparently contain *both* the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows. They won't be sold separately any longer. None of this will immediately change the fact that a majority of the x86-64 systems out there will *still* be running in 32-bit mode. I'm just saying that a lot more than 1% of them will move to 64-bit mode. It took a long time to build up momentum, but I think from this point on the switch over is only going to move faster. -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Just a Couple of Random-like Freezes ...
On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Bill Connelly wrote: I tried looking at the system log through Console, but didn't see anything at the point of the freeze. I did find that Firefox was evidently calling a debugger of some sort. Then on a next restart, the log was gone. Here is a recent log, not associated with a freeze, but showing the Firefox activity, and the log being turned over. Any suggestions how to proceed? yeah, show us a log of when it freezes. The firefox stuff merely means debugging is turned on, probably means you're running a beta or RC version? When the log is turned over, it doesn't disappear, it gets sent compressed and renamed system.log.0.bz2 (actually what happens is system.log.6.bz2 gets renamed to system.log. 7.bz2, 5 to 6, etc, THEN system.log gets compressed and named system.log.0.bz2) To see these earlier logs, simply click on the More Logs button in the upper left hand corner of Console, and navigate to /var/log, and slick the reveal triangle. Select any of the system.log.N files and look in them for the time of the freeze. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: VideoLan has finally reached version 1.0.0
On 7/7/09 12:40 PM, John Martz of zjo...@gmail.com sent On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Len Gerstellgers...@gmail.com wrote: VideoLan has released version 1.0.0 of its software, one of the more robust and format inclusive video players for OS X. http://www.videolan.org Thanks. Downloading now. VideoLan is somewhat amazing to me. Etc I can't say that about the players that come with either Windows or OS X. (Though the WMP in Windows 7 seems to suck a bit less than previous versions of WMP ... that's about as generous as I can be with the faint praise). -irrational john You are (still) generous indeed. My sentiments exactly. Best regards, Dana --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:00 AM, Liam Proven wrote: Well, true, but for how long under Oracle's reign? A while I'd think. This was a valuable part of Sun to Oracle, (they bought Sun because Oracle is completely dependent on Java now, and has been since the 8i-9 transition, this way they control that bit.) LOTS of big-iron Oracle databases run on Sun clusters. This way they can sell the whole widget: an industrial-sized Oracle appliance. Plus Sun was dirt-cheap. (I laugh, thinking back to the days when all the pundits were breathlessly suggesting that Sun buy Apple.) I'm more concerned about all the OSS that Sun was nurturing: VirtualBox, OpenOffice, Java, etc. Unless Oracle's looking to take a run at the utopian dream of the thin client, and take on Microsoft in Microsoft's home court, I suspect those things will eventually be spun off, or simply dropped off outside Sourceforge, with a note attached Please take care of this orphaned Open Source. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:10 AM, Liam Proven wrote: IBM had problems? Not as I recall. POWER was doing great. PowerPC was merely an adaptation of the high-end POWER multi-chip processors into a lower-end single-chip device utilising the Motorola 88000 bus, designed for PC-type kit. IBM never managed a low power G5, and Moro couldn't get more performance outof the PPC series. Apple (along with all the other PC manufacturers) live and die by their laptop lines, and the inability of either Moto or IBM to deliver low power, high performance chips suited for laptops was strangling Apple there. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: VideoLan has finally reached version 1.0.0
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Len Gerstellgers...@gmail.com wrote: VideoLan has released version 1.0.0 of its software, one of the more robust and format inclusive video players for OS X. http://www.videolan.org Thanks. Downloading now. VideoLan is somewhat amazing to me. Given all the (video) players out there from all the different companies, the only one I have had a consistently good experience with is VideoLan. To fall back on a perhaps over used phrase, it just works. At least for me. I can't say that about the players that come with either Windows or OS X. (Though the WMP in Windows 7 seems to suck a bit less than previous versions of WMP ... that's about as generous as I can be with the faint praise). -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:10 AM, Liam Proven wrote: IBM had problems? Not as I recall. POWER was doing great. PowerPC was merely an adaptation of the high-end POWER multi-chip processors into a lower-end single-chip device utilising the Motorola 88000 bus, designed for PC-type kit. IBM never managed a low power G5, and Moro couldn't get more performance outof the PPC series. Apple (along with all the other PC manufacturers) live and die by their laptop lines, and the inability of either Moto or IBM to deliver low power, high performance chips suited for laptops was strangling Apple there. And here we have the story. IBM never manage much well as regards the PPC alliance. Motorola had problems as well despite spending a couple of billion on a new fab here in Austin to produce 'em. Bottom line was the lack of fast low power chips for laptops that ultimately resulted in the switch. Had a low power G5 chip been produced, there would be no Apple Intel today. My dealings with IBM always showed this company to be inflexible which in turn often results in a lack of innovation, two qualities that can seriously alter end results. But we can discuss this to death and it won't change anything. S, I'll just keep on truckin' with my ancient G4 Gigabit 400... JT (Who wonders at times why not hook up the 1.25GHz Powerbook to use as a main machine) sigh --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
But we can discuss this to death and it won't change anything. S, I'll just keep on truckin' with my ancient G4 Gigabit 400... JT (Who wonders at times why not hook up the 1.25GHz Powerbook to use as a main machine) I decided on a processor upgrade for my QS, 1.8ghz. Buys me a few more years before I finally go intel at home.have a 1.5GHz powerbook as well, got it from work to 'work from home after hours' yeah my wife surfs the web on it and I use the QS if i have to work from home heh. -sam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Gamepad's Age Established Through Carbon Dating
On Jul 7, 2009, at 12:29 PM, tonycd wrote: I was housecleaning and I exhumed a Gravis USB GamePad Pro. It looks like a dark grey PS2 gamepad with the secondary buttons missing, but its connector is USB 1.1. I believe I bought it around 10 years ago, late in the Classic Era. I am sure it was designed to work with the then-current Game Sprockets in the Mac OS. Is this relic of any current use anymore, or should it be (sigh) consigned to the dustbin of history? As it's a USB device, I'll wager it could well work as is; at the very least USBOverdrive will let you do what you want with it. http://www.usboverdrive.com/USBOverdrive/News.html -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: Return to PowerPC?
On 7/7/09 1:56 PM, Bruce Johnson at john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: This was a valuable part of Sun to Oracle, (they bought Sun because Oracle is completely dependent on Java now, and has been since the 8i-9 transition, this way they control that bit.) It is strangely funny to remember that back in 1996 we heard that Sun would buy Apple... -- MaGioZal. http://flickr.com/photos/magiozal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: Return to PowerPC?
On 7/7/09 3:57 PM, James E. Therrault at jetas...@worldnet.att.net wrote: Bottom line was the lack of fast low power chips for laptops that ultimately resulted in the switch. Had a low power G5 chip been produced, there would be no Apple Intel today. The other thing that burned the marketing image of IBM-Mororola-Apple was the GHz Chip race. When all the PC market was proudly announcing 1GHz computers, Apple for a relatively long time had to conform to the duo-processed 600MHz Macs. -- MaGioZal. http://flickr.com/photos/magiozal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: Return to PowerPC?
On 7/7/09 1:58 PM, Bruce Johnson at john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: IBM never managed a low power G5, and Moro couldn't get more performance outof the PPC series. Apple (along with all the other PC manufacturers) live and die by their laptop lines, and the inability of either Moto or IBM to deliver low power, high performance chips suited for laptops was strangling Apple there. Well, my next computer will be an Apple notebook -- I'm just waiting for the pre-installed-Snow-Leopard series to be introduced. -- MaGioZal. http://fotolog.com/_magiozal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Gamepad's Age Established Through Carbon Dating
Thanks, Bruce. And sorry, Alex. ;.) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/7 John Martz zjo...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Liam Provenlpro...@gmail.com wrote: AMD are really struggling now. The Sledgehammer µarch was stunning and killed Itanium; it moved the x86 world onto 64-bit, although 99% of machines still run 32-bit S/W, just like for a decade, 99% of the 32-bit 386 machines ran 16-bit S/W. I assume you're using 99% in a wave your hands sort of way. [...] None of this will immediately change the fact that a majority of the x86-64 systems out there will *still* be running in 32-bit mode. I'm just saying that a lot more than 1% of them will move to 64-bit mode. All right, it's a fair cop. Perhaps 90-95% might have been a more reasonable guesstimate. Although I would note that OS X86 is essentially a 32-bit OS with extensions to provide the facility to run 64-bit apps, which is actually quite a sensible way of doing things... It took a long time to build up momentum, but I think from this point on the switch over is only going to move faster. Probably, yes. If only to allow personal computers to simply and easily access 4GB of RAM. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/7 Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu: On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:00 AM, Liam Proven wrote: Well, true, but for how long under Oracle's reign? A while I'd think. This was a valuable part of Sun to Oracle, (they bought Sun because Oracle is completely dependent on Java now, and has been since the 8i-9 transition, this way they control that bit.) LOTS of big-iron Oracle databases run on Sun clusters. This way they can sell the whole widget: an industrial-sized Oracle appliance. Personally, I think Sun's /hardware/ was wanted will be valuable to Oracle. But remember that Sun also makes AMD and Intel x86-64 kit. I reckon /that/ is what the new owners will be interested in. SPARC doesn't offer a significant performance boost now unless your apps need lots of threads, where the Niagara chips have a distinct edge - for now. But that kind of code is fairly rare. Plus Sun was dirt-cheap. (I laugh, thinking back to the days when all the pundits were breathlessly suggesting that Sun buy Apple.) Indeed. Very sad. I'm more concerned about all the OSS that Sun was nurturing: VirtualBox, OpenOffice, Java, etc. Unless Oracle's looking to take a run at the utopian dream of the thin client, and take on Microsoft in Microsoft's home court, I suspect those things will eventually be spun off, or simply dropped off outside Sourceforge, with a note attached Please take care of this orphaned Open Source. Good point; I agree. I think Larry Ellison /really/ hates Gates Microsoft, and will do what he can to twist the knife, /so long as/ it doesn't cost him money or business. And FOSS is a useful anti-MS weapon. So they might well embrace it. I hope so, anyway. One thing Sun could assemble, fairly readily, would be a killer large-enterprise messaging solution. A far more scalable back-end server than Exchange, coupled via an instant-push-delivery protocol to a premium-grade client app. This would not actually be hard to do, but nobody's ever done it. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
2009/7/7 Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu: On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:10 AM, Liam Proven wrote: IBM had problems? Not as I recall. POWER was doing great. PowerPC was merely an adaptation of the high-end POWER multi-chip processors into a lower-end single-chip device utilising the Motorola 88000 bus, designed for PC-type kit. IBM never managed a low power G5, and Moro couldn't get more performance outof the PPC series. Apple (along with all the other PC manufacturers) live and die by their laptop lines, and the inability of either Moto or IBM to deliver low power, high performance chips suited for laptops was strangling Apple there. I presume that the first Moro = Moto? Well, the thing is, there I was talking about the genesis of the PowerPC in the early 1990s and you're talking about its effective end in the mid-noughties. The problems that caused its creation were unrelated to those that caused its demise. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
i am writing this from a power pc g4 1.67 watching a 720p alexandare... yes i need pause it for writing this. i can listen moby's last album in last version of itunes... i am running a 10.5.7 with 2 GB ram... yes i am running with actual production machine for home with CS4 series... with only 5200 rpm drive... yes it is a powerbook G4 in his 4 years... think about 4 years old Windows with Intel... what they can use now? 2009/7/8 Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com 2009/7/7 Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu: On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:10 AM, Liam Proven wrote: IBM had problems? Not as I recall. POWER was doing great. PowerPC was merely an adaptation of the high-end POWER multi-chip processors into a lower-end single-chip device utilising the Motorola 88000 bus, designed for PC-type kit. IBM never managed a low power G5, and Moro couldn't get more performance outof the PPC series. Apple (along with all the other PC manufacturers) live and die by their laptop lines, and the inability of either Moto or IBM to deliver low power, high performance chips suited for laptops was strangling Apple there. I presume that the first Moro = Moto? Well, the thing is, there I was talking about the genesis of the PowerPC in the early 1990s and you're talking about its effective end in the mid-noughties. The problems that caused its creation were unrelated to those that caused its demise. -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- Baha Ata --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 7, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Liam Proven wrote: One thing Sun could assemble, fairly readily, would be a killer large-enterprise messaging solution. A far more scalable back-end server than Exchange, coupled via an instant-push-delivery protocol to a premium-grade client app. This would not actually be hard to do, but nobody's ever done it. Well, LarryCo better get cracking on it, because this is exactly the market that has Google's giant glowing red laser sight dot on it. They're pushing hard into the enterprise messaging market with Gmail/ Calendar/Apps, etcwe're looking at them for the University email and calendaring stuff. It's going to be approximately a third of the cost of just licensing and machinery to run a campus-wide Exchange server, and this offloads a whole lot of support costs as well, not to mention things like Google paying the electric bill :-) (we're talking 40K accounts between students, faculty and staff, not an insignificant population) Their API's are out there, too, to tie in local resources, like financial systems. (click a button in your accounts page, and it'll generate a report pushed out to your google docs folder for the rest of the office to see, that sort of thing.) Cisco is making noises about this, too, but mainly because 'cloud computing' has a solid core of network equipment throughout :-) -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: VideoLan has finally reached version 1.0.0
On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Dana Collins wrote: VideoLan has released version 1.0.0 of its software, one of the more robust and format inclusive video players for OS X. Too bad they don't have same for 10.4 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: Return to PowerPC?
MaGioZal wrote: On 7/7/09 3:57 PM, James E. Therrault at jetas...@worldnet.att.net wrote: Bottom line was the lack of fast low power chips for laptops that ultimately resulted in the switch. Had a low power G5 chip been produced, there would be no Apple Intel today. The other thing that burned the marketing image of IBM-Mororola-Apple was the GHz Chip race. When all the PC market was proudly announcing 1GHz computers, Apple for a relatively long time had to conform to the duo-processed 600MHz Macs. I remember when IBM was running an (I believe) experimental PPC chip at 1GHz in 1995. Problem was that very often, IBM could not get things out of the research lab purely due to bureaucracy and infrastructure. JT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: VideoLan has finally reached version 1.0.0
On Jul 7, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Nestamicky wrote: On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Dana Collins wrote: VideoLan has released version 1.0.0 of its software, one of the more robust and format inclusive video players for OS X. Too bad they don't have same for 10.4 I tried to use VLC 1.0.0 on my Dual 533 DA under Leopard 10.5.7, and it played the original VIDEO_TS file fine. I have a HandBrake conversion to m4v (Quicktime/mp4 I believe its also called), and it didn't play that well at all. Quicktime plays it ok, just not VLC. Dual 533 speed issue? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 7, 6:17 am, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/7/7 Mullin9 ddavidmul...@inbox.com: OOPS I grabbed a PS3 but Swapped the 256MB RAM, with 4 GB RAM stick, wired/ soldered in a 2005 Apple ROM not the EFI, and installed OS X v 10.5 and with 3.2 GHz PPC Cell CPU It Screams. Nope, I don't believe it. I don't believe you could readily adapt Apple's firmware to a PS3. I don't see much point - OS X on PPC is dead, anyway. And finally, Cell isn't /that/ quick - SP-to-RAM access is dismal, in particular - OS X couldn't use the SPs anyway. --I admit it the Cell CPU is a different PPC, than the G5, and the PS3/Mac ROM mixture didn't work right, no more than a G5 loaded with a 10.5 from a Mac X86. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 7, 7:17 am, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/7/7 Mullin9 ddavidmul...@inbox.com: OOPS I grabbed a PS3 but Swapped the 256MB RAM, with 4 GB RAM stick, wired/ soldered in a 2005 Apple ROM not the EFI, and installed OS X v 10.5 and with 3.2 GHz PPC Cell CPU It Screams. Nope, I don't believe it. I don't believe you could readily adapt Apple's firmware to a PS3. I don't see much point - OS X on PPC is dead, anyway. And finally, Cell isn't /that/ quick - SP-to-RAM access is dismal, in particular - OS X couldn't use the SPs anyway. OOPS I though I could fit the ROM to PS3, and give it more RAM, It didn't work like I expected it would, I wanted to Make a Faster-than-G5 PPC Computer, it was a dud. too mismatched to work at all --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Return to PowerPC?
On Jul 7, 7:17 am, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/7/7 Mullin9 ddavidmul...@inbox.com: OOPS I grabbed a PS3 but Swapped the 256MB RAM, with 4 GB RAM stick, wired/ soldered in a 2005 Apple ROM not the EFI, and installed OS X v 10.5 and with 3.2 GHz PPC Cell CPU It Screams. Nope, I don't believe it. I don't believe you could readily adapt Apple's firmware to a PS3. I don't see much point - OS X on PPC is dead, anyway. And finally, Cell isn't /that/ quick - SP-to-RAM access is dismal, in particular - OS X couldn't use the SPs anyway. Some one did it, it is on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cEkebFzlgQ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
