Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
From: Tina K. penguir...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010 0:23:15 Subject: Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different On 2010/11/29 16:07, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: You left off: The really, truly final Directors 20th anniversary Redux cut with all the crap we originally left on the cutting room floor jammed back in no matter how disjointed it makes the final product, just because it was cool having Martin Sheen visit a bunch of demented french colonialists on a plantation in the middle of the Vietnam War. And after that they'll make the Stripped down, nitty gritty, meat 'n potatoes version. All the sex and violence without those pesky plots. Ideal for people who have already stretched themselves too thin. Tina That's why I've taken to buying pretty well all of my DVDs from ebay at @ £0.99 in the UK (about $1.50). Even if I were piratically inclined, it's cheaper this way, so piracy isn't worth the bother.. Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On Nov 29, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Dan wrote: At 5:23 PM -0700 11/29/2010, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/11/29 16:07, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: You left off: The really, truly final Directors 20th anniversary Redux cut with all the crap we originally left on the cutting room floor jammed back in no matter how disjointed it makes the final product, just because it was cool having Martin Sheen visit a bunch of demented french colonialists on a plantation in the middle of the Vietnam War. And after that they'll make the Stripped down, nitty gritty, meat 'n potatoes version. All the sex and violence without those pesky plots. Ideal for people who have already stretched themselves too thin. Wait! Don't forget the opposite - the sterilized/pablum versions for sale at special places like Wal-Mart. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. Have that one- Josie the Pussycats, the 'Family' version -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
We’re having quite a number of topics in here now, but anyway: I’ve been asking myself whether it’s better to top post or bottom post? My guess is bottom post while deleting from the previous post the part that is not being answered. I’m sure the rules are posted somewhere, but anyone inclined to teach me? Re. DVDs playing well and video files poorly, I think the point has been clearly made now: DVDs have 4GB or more so the computer has an easy job, where video files in other formats are compressed to a quarter of the size or less and need to be worked on hard by the CPU. It was said a bit bluntly, but yes, my Digital Audio (466 MHz G4) has the same problems. Some YouTube videos don’t play smoothly and I can forget HD ones. Downloading them improves things only slightly. TV/monitor: The absolute minimum width for a monitor these days is 1024 pixels, so never get 720p if you’re going to use it as a monitor. (Even my ancient Powerbook 1400 has more than that. There are many web pages that you cannot view completely on screens narrower than 1024 pixels: the left edge is gone and you can’t scroll over.) I’m not familiar with bluray, but isn’t HD its main purpose? If so, your bluray quality would be reduced to LD by playing it on a 720p TV, I expect. If you’re using it mainly as a monitor, maybe it would be better to find a monitor with a TV input port, or see if you can get a bluray drive to build into your Mac? Anyone knows if those exist? Plasma/LCD: aren’t plasma screens usually LARGE, so less suited as a monitor, cause you’re sitting relatively close up? They also use more power and don’t last as long, from what I’ve heard. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
At 5:07 AM -0800 11/29/2010, Geke wrote: We're having quite a number of topics in here now, but anyway: I've been asking myself whether it's better to top post or bottom post? My guess is bottom post while deleting from the previous post the part that is not being answered. I'm sure the rules are posted somewhere, but anyone inclined to teach me? Bottom posting and trimming is preferred for tech support type threads, as it's the best for maintaining proper context. Top posting is okay for idle chatting. The nannies have given up on policing it, so top posting is now permitted in the rules. IMO, if you want good technical assistance, bottom post and trim. Most of us techies - when we see top posting, we usually just move on to the next message. It's usually just not worth our time to muddle thru top posted stuff to figure out what's what. ...There have been a lot of threads about this. Check our archives if you want. my Digital Audio (466 MHz G4) has the same problems. Some YouTube videos don't play smoothly and I can forget HD ones. Downloading them improves things only slightly Flash. ug. (been lots of threads on this list about flash too). I've had some success with this technique: Using Safari, make sure you've got ClickToFlash installed and an ad blocker. The latter ensures that your cpu isn't busy with @#$% animated ads. ClickToFlash will ensure that the youtube flash video is the ONLY one running. If that much doesn't improve playback, then also try telling the streamer to send you lower-resolution video. On youtube, do that by adding fmt=5 to the url. I'm not familiar with bluray, but isn't HD its main purpose? If so, your bluray quality would be reduced to LD by playing it on a 720p TV, I expect. Blu-ray's main purpose is to get people to re-purchase their videos in yet-another format. :\ The point of the most commonly used codecs on blu-ray is to make it easier for authors to create higher quality content.They seem to be doing that, albeit slowly. heh. I was in a video store the other night... took some time to read labels. LOL The blu-ray titles were more expensive than the DVD versions but most were only 720 - just like the DVDs. Such a deal! get a bluray drive to build into your Mac? Anyone knows if those exist? Several companies offer them, and the software to drive 'em. Just not Apple. The best supplier for such, IMO, is Other World Computing. macsales.com - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On 2010/11/29 12:50, Dan so eloquently wrote: At 5:07 AM -0800 11/29/2010, Geke wrote: my Digital Audio (466 MHz G4) has the same problems. Some YouTube videos don't play smoothly and I can forget HD ones. Downloading them improves things only slightly Flash. ug. (been lots of threads on this list about flash too). I've had some success with this technique: Using Safari, make sure you've got ClickToFlash installed and an ad blocker. The latter ensures that your cpu isn't busy with @#$% animated ads. ClickToFlash will ensure that the youtube flash video is the ONLY one running. If that much doesn't improve playback, then also try telling the streamer to send you lower-resolution video. On youtube, do that by adding fmt=5 to the url. YouTube used to have an optional HTML 5 program that might be worth looking into. You have to be logged in, and it doesn't work with videos that contain ads. Another thing you might try is to enable the Developer menu in Safari's preferences and when you want to watch YouTube videos set the user agent string in the Developer menu to Safari/iPad. That should deliver the videos in html 5. Courtesy would be to set the user agent string back to it's original setting so as not to skew visitor data for developers on other sites. I'm not familiar with bluray, but isn't HD its main purpose? If so, your bluray quality would be reduced to LD by playing it on a 720p TV, I expect. Blu-ray's main purpose is to get people to re-purchase their videos in yet-another format. :\ And when that well isn't producing enough (read: when they think they can get away with it) they will introduce the Next Big Thing! Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
At 3:23 PM -0700 11/29/2010, Tina K. wrote: Blu-ray's main purpose is to get people to re-purchase their videos in yet-another format. :\ And when that well isn't producing enough (read: when they think they can get away with it) they will introduce the Next Big Thing! VHS. Standard edition on DVD. Director's cut on DVD. Director's cut on DVD with Added Scenes! The Uncensored Director's Cut on DVD with Added Scenes and the kitchen sink. Rinse, repeat, for Blu-Ray. Then rinse, repeat for Blu-Ray Remastered to 1080p! Then rinse, repeat for Blu-Ray, but using the new 4096p codec! (the one that Apple is working with, to replace H.264 etc). ug. I know some people that have bought their fav movies three and four times. They justify it by saying that they can dump the old ones on eBay or Craigslist. But they get so little there, they end up donating them to the library. ...And Hollywood wonders why piracy is growing. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On Nov 29, 2010, at 3:46 PM, Dan wrote: Director's cut on DVD. Director's cut on DVD with Added Scenes! The Uncensored Director's Cut on DVD with Added Scenes and the kitchen sink. You left off: The really, truly final Directors 20th anniversary Redux cut with all the crap we originally left on the cutting room floor jammed back in no matter how disjointed it makes the final product, just because it was cool having Martin Sheen visit a bunch of demented french colonialists on a plantation in the middle of the Vietnam War. Heck THAT one made it all the way back into the theaters... :-) -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On 2010/11/29 15:46, Dan so eloquently wrote: ...And Hollywood wonders why piracy is growing. Never fear, Homeland Security is on the case, apparently counterfeit and pirated products are terrorism. Not that I endorse said activities but that's the FBI's job, not Homeland Security. Or maybe we'll start seeing HSA warnings on our movies instead of FBI warnings. Sorry for the political deviation. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On 2010/11/29 16:07, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: You left off: The really, truly final Directors 20th anniversary Redux cut with all the crap we originally left on the cutting room floor jammed back in no matter how disjointed it makes the final product, just because it was cool having Martin Sheen visit a bunch of demented french colonialists on a plantation in the middle of the Vietnam War. And after that they'll make the Stripped down, nitty gritty, meat 'n potatoes version. All the sex and violence without those pesky plots. Ideal for people who have already stretched themselves too thin. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
At 5:23 PM -0700 11/29/2010, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/11/29 16:07, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: You left off: The really, truly final Directors 20th anniversary Redux cut with all the crap we originally left on the cutting room floor jammed back in no matter how disjointed it makes the final product, just because it was cool having Martin Sheen visit a bunch of demented french colonialists on a plantation in the middle of the Vietnam War. And after that they'll make the Stripped down, nitty gritty, meat 'n potatoes version. All the sex and violence without those pesky plots. Ideal for people who have already stretched themselves too thin. Wait! Don't forget the opposite - the sterilized/pablum versions for sale at special places like Wal-Mart. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
I take issue with this line below: Your 450-MHz G4 is simply not fast enough, I think. AND that is still for the reason that DVD display is remarkable SO with that in mind I simply do not see the reasoning for the comment -- NOT to kill the horse again, but the unanswered question was and still is just this: If I could download the same exact file content via the web, would it play, once resident on my computer, so no processor time is being shared, every bit as good as the DVD does at 450 MHz!!! And, tis the season for Santa to look for stocking stuffers. Right now I am looking to buy a TV, either a plasma or an LCD. Now I know that 1080p is overhyped, however, my questions is: Will there be a noticable difference between a 720p and 1080p TV if the TV is also used as a computer monitor? And will it show any different DVD than it does now? I would say, I would use the TV mostly for Mac use and for my blurays. So I guess what I am asking is, for Mac use is 1080p the way to go and would you guys buy a lcd or plasma? -- JML --- On Wed, 11/24/10, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: From: Dan dantear...@gmail.com Subject: Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 11:55 AM At 7:26 AM -0800 11/24/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: Could a good server operator have done this processing for us and then downloaded the worked on file, so that the video would play just as good as a local DVD does? Yes, but... Keep in mind that these new $9 per month movie services may have done just this very thing, since no way will the consumer pay for a movie that is of the general quality that is downloaded from the web and shown using Quicktime or Real. MPEG-2 is often decoded in hardware. That hardware is either a special chip in the DVD drive or in your video card's GPU. Some newer video cards have the necessaries for decoding h.264 in hardware. Iffa your Mac no gots the required hardware, then QuickTime (or VLC etc) has to do ***all*** the decoding your main CPU. Now... That $9 service. They PAY thru the nose for their network bandwidth, so they have NO interest in streaming lower-compression data to you. They want to send you as little as possible, hence the use of advanced codecs such as h.264. So to view compressed stream smoothly, you need two things: 1) A fast CPU or some sort of hardware decoder and 2) A fast/smooth network connection. If either of the above isn't up to par, then will get pauses, stutters, etc. Your 450-MHz G4 is simply not fast enough, I think. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On Nov 25, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote: If I could download the same exact file content via the web, would it play, once resident on my computer, so no processor time is being shared, every bit as good as the DVD does at 450 MHz!!! yes you could...but downloads would be correspondingly HUGE. Small-file sizes == greater compression == more work to decode. Less compression == less work to decode == huge file sizes. Also, MPEG2 is encumbered by licensing fees. This is why you have to purchase the MPEG2 encoder separately for Quicktime Pro. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
At 3:36 PM -0800 11/25/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: I take issue with this line below: Your 450-MHz G4 is simply not fast enough, I think. AND that is still for the reason that DVD display is remarkable SO with that in mind I simply do not see the reasoning for the comment -- NOT to kill the horse again Yes, you're killing the horse again. By top posting you're blowing off the context that DOES answer your question, repeatedly. , but the unanswered question was and still is just this: If I could download the same exact file content via the web, would it play, once resident on my computer, so no processor time is being shared, every bit as good as the DVD does at 450 MHz!!! IF the MPEG2 decoding is done in your system's DVD drive, then NO - the downloaded clip would not play well. That's because QuickTime would have to do the decoding in the main CPU, in sofware, without the hardware assist. IF the MPEG2 decoding is done in your system's video card, then YES - the downloaded clip would play just as well because QuickTime would have the hardware assist. And, tis the season for Santa to look for stocking stuffers. Right now I am looking to buy a TV, either a plasma or an LCD. Now I know that 1080p is overhyped, however, my questions is: Will there be a noticable difference between a 720p and 1080p TV if the TV is also used as a computer monitor? And will it show any different DVD than it does now? I would say, I would use the TV mostly for Mac use and for my blurays. So I guess what I am asking is, for Mac use is 1080p the way to go and would you guys buy a lcd or plasma? Standard television is 525 lines. VHS is 480 lines. DVD-Video is 720x480 (NTSC) and 720x576 (PAL). IF your display (tv) and video card can do a full 1080p THEN the quality of what you see would depend on the quality of the SOURCE material. If the source is a DVD rip, then what you get is 720x480 scaled up to 1080. MANY videos on Blu-Ray are actually just copied 720x480 with some xtra special features added to use up the available space. So... you have to read labels. Make sure that Blu-Ray actually contains 1080 content. Can you see the difference between 720 and 1080? Heck yea! IF you're comparing a 720 source to a 1080 source. IMO, lcd vs plasma is subjective. Look at both and pick the one that looks best To You. Personally, I prefer the lcd. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
WE AGAIN have the problem that TOP POSTING IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. If you have the same presentation that I have -- a BLUE LINE -- that keeps growing if I try to post to the BOTTOM OF THE PAGE!!! Then it should be clear that TOP POSTING is REQUIRED since to post to the bottom of the existing message keeps growing this BLUE LINE THAT I HAVE == you may not have such a line - I DO! SO, please offer me a solution - if their is one other than TOP POSTING. JML = --- On Sun, 11/28/10, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: From: Dan dantear...@gmail.com Subject: Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 6:30 PM At 3:36 PM -0800 11/25/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: I take issue with this line below: Your 450-MHz G4 is simply not fast enough, I think. AND that is still for the reason that DVD display is remarkable SO with that in mind I simply do not see the reasoning for the comment -- NOT to kill the horse again Yes, you're killing the horse again. By top posting you're blowing off the context that DOES answer your question, repeatedly. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
At 11:32 AM -0700 11/23/2010, Tina K. wrote: Was Blue Ray designed asymmetrically as well? To clarify Bruce's post... This has NOTHING to do with the media format. CD, DVD, Blu-Ray... those are just media, plastic discs that basically emulate random-access r/o hard drives. It's the codec used to encode/decode the video and audio data ON the media that's asymmetric. The basic theory is that playback should always be easy, to allow use on less expensive hardware. They try to do all the number crunching, compressions, optimizations, etc, during the encode process, because that's when the author (home user or professional) is going to have more cpu power available. As to the primary codec used CD-Video is either MPEG-1 or MPEG-2. DVD-Video is MPEG-2. Blu-Ray discs use MPEG-2 or MEPG-4 (mostly h.264) or VC-1. Then there's those players that support DviX DVDs. DivX is simply a flavor of MPEG-4. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
Still asking the question: Since DVD plays so nice yet downloaded video items do not and Dan told us that this was because the downloaded file had to be worked on a lot prior to showing on the screen, we ask this question: Could a good server operator have done this processing for us and then downloaded the worked on file, so that the video would play just as good as a local DVD does? Keep in mind that these new $9 per month movie services may have done just this very thing, since no way will the consumer pay for a movie that is of the general quality that is downloaded from the web and shown using Quicktime or Real. JML --- On Wed, 11/24/10, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: From: Dan dantear...@gmail.com Subject: Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 6:55 AM At 11:32 AM -0700 11/23/2010, Tina K. wrote: Was Blue Ray designed asymmetrically as well? To clarify Bruce's post... This has NOTHING to do with the media format. CD, DVD, Blu-Ray... those are just media, plastic discs that basically emulate random-access r/o hard drives. It's the codec used to encode/decode the video and audio data ON the media that's asymmetric. The basic theory is that playback should always be easy, to allow use on less expensive hardware. They try to do all the number crunching, compressions, optimizations, etc, during the encode process, because that's when the author (home user or professional) is going to have more cpu power available. As to the primary codec used CD-Video is either MPEG-1 or MPEG-2. DVD-Video is MPEG-2. Blu-Ray discs use MPEG-2 or MEPG-4 (mostly h.264) or VC-1. Then there's those players that support DviX DVDs. DivX is simply a flavor of MPEG-4. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On 2010/11/24 07:55, Dan so eloquently wrote: This has NOTHING to do with the media format. CD, DVD, Blu-Ray... those are just media, plastic discs that basically emulate random-access r/o hard drives. It's the codec used to encode/decode the video and audio data ON the media that's asymmetric. Yes I understand that, I simply did not know what codec/s BluRay used. Blu-Ray discs use MPEG-2 or MEPG-4 (mostly h.264) or VC-1. Thank you. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
At 7:26 AM -0800 11/24/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: Could a good server operator have done this processing for us and then downloaded the worked on file, so that the video would play just as good as a local DVD does? Yes, but... Keep in mind that these new $9 per month movie services may have done just this very thing, since no way will the consumer pay for a movie that is of the general quality that is downloaded from the web and shown using Quicktime or Real. MPEG-2 is often decoded in hardware. That hardware is either a special chip in the DVD drive or in your video card's GPU. Some newer video cards have the necessaries for decoding h.264 in hardware. Iffa your Mac no gots the required hardware, then QuickTime (or VLC etc) has to do ***all*** the decoding your main CPU. Now... That $9 service. They PAY thru the nose for their network bandwidth, so they have NO interest in streaming lower-compression data to you. They want to send you as little as possible, hence the use of advanced codecs such as h.264. So to view compressed stream smoothly, you need two things: 1) A fast CPU or some sort of hardware decoder and 2) A fast/smooth network connection. If either of the above isn't up to par, then will get pauses, stutters, etc. Your 450-MHz G4 is simply not fast enough, I think. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On 2010/11/16 09:18, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: DVD's are encoded via MPEG2, which is an asymmetric codec: it's significantly less computationally intensive to decode versus encode. (this is how it was developed to be, to allow cheap DVD players. Also why it takes iDVD all night to encode a hour's video to DVD on a G4 with a 1Gig CPU and a gig of ram.) Was Blue Ray designed asymmetrically as well? Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Gnome/Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
--- On Tue, 11/16/10, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: From: Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Subject: Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 8:18 AM On Nov 15, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different I continue to delve into the various differences on my several Mac presentations. When viewing a DVD, even in FULL SCREEN presentation, the picture is perfect, not a pause or flicker to be found. When I view a canned video downloaded from the internet and presented in Quicktime, Real, or Windows Media, we have pauses and disruptions even at small sizes. DVD's are encoded via MPEG2, which is an asymmetric codec: it's significantly less computationally intensive to decode versus encode. (this is how it was developed to be, to allow cheap DVD players. Also why it takes iDVD all night to encode a hour's video to DVD on a G4 with a 1Gig CPU and a gig of ram.) The other files you are viewing are encoded differently, and require more computational effort to decode. Bruce Johnson Then could the company operating the server that I am downloading from have ALREADY converted the video to MPEG2 then allow me to download it and it would play just as a DVD, in fact could it then play ON THE DVD PLAYER not USING Quicktime or whatever?? What is the size difference, a 1 Mb video converted to MPEG2 becomes how big? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On Nov 15, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different I continue to delve into the various differences on my several Mac presentations. When viewing a DVD, even in FULL SCREEN presentation, the picture is perfect, not a pause or flicker to be found. When I view a canned video downloaded from the internet and presented in Quicktime, Real, or Windows Media, we have pauses and disruptions even at small sizes. DVD's are encoded via MPEG2, which is an asymmetric codec: it's significantly less computationally intensive to decode versus encode. (this is how it was developed to be, to allow cheap DVD players. Also why it takes iDVD all night to encode a hour's video to DVD on a G4 with a 1Gig CPU and a gig of ram.) The other files you are viewing are encoded differently, and require more computational effort to decode. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
On Nov 16, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: DVD's are encoded via MPEG2, which is an asymmetric codec: it's significantly less computationally intensive to decode versus encode. (this is how it was developed to be, to allow cheap DVD players. Also why it takes iDVD all night to encode a hour's video to DVD on a G4 with a 1Gig CPU and a gig of ram.) Indeed so, and possibly why there are badly-authored versions of apparently identical movies out there. Sometimes just the menu is bad. Other times the movie itself is bad. Either way, the player or the application is going to have trouble. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different I continue to delve into the various differences on my several Mac presentations. When viewing a DVD, even in FULL SCREEN presentation, the picture is perfect, not a pause or flicker to be found. When I view a canned video downloaded from the internet and presented in Quicktime, Real, or Windows Media, we have pauses and disruptions even at small sizes. Allowing the video to fully download to the computer then showing it makes no major difference, but does cure some minor presentation issues. So, what is the difference between a video downloaded and now resident on the computer and a DVD being read from a disk? Why aren't these presentations the same or nearly so? I do understand that if the processor is spending time to service the download at the same time it is required to spend time slinging it to the screen, their will be a slow down, but once the video is downloaded, why aren't the DVD and Video the same quality? Hope you can explain this apparent difference. JML G4, 10.4.11, 450MHz, 512Mb, stock DVD player, DSL line. I'm a designated FREE SPIRIT HITCHHIKING on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they soooo different
My best guess is that it's the video codec that's making the difference in playback quality. DVDs are encoded with MPEG-2, which requires less processor resources to decode and play back that the newer file formats commonly used in downloadable video. Your G4's processor is simply too weak to keep up with the load of decoding said newer formats. Chance On 11/15/10 8:21 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote: DVD, Webcam, Pix, and Images: why are they s different I continue to delve into the various differences on my several Mac presentations. When viewing a DVD, even in FULL SCREEN presentation, the picture is perfect, not a pause or flicker to be found. When I view a canned video downloaded from the internet and presented in Quicktime, Real, or Windows Media, we have pauses and disruptions even at small sizes. Allowing the video to fully download to the computer then showing it makes no major difference, but does cure some minor presentation issues. So, what is the difference between a video downloaded and now resident on the computer and a DVD being read from a disk? Why aren't these presentations the same or nearly so? I do understand that if the processor is spending time to service the download at the same time it is required to spend time slinging it to the screen, their will be a slow down, but once the video is downloaded, why aren't the DVD and Video the same quality? Hope you can explain this apparent difference. JMLG4, 10.4.11, 450MHz, 512Mb, stock DVD player, DSL line. I'm a designated FREE SPIRIT HITCHHIKING on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
