Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 30, 2011, at 4:08 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Jan 30, 2011, at 3:49 PM, Dana Collins wrote: QS DID boot up off the OS 9.22 (universal install) CD (so that install of the OS was successful) I don't believe there's such as thing as a 9.2.2 universal install CD. The final retail OS 9 disc was the OS 9.1 disc that's white with the orange/yellow 9 on it. This disc installs OS 9.1 and is the only universal disc I'm aware of. It requires both a 9.2.1 and a 9.2.2 update to reach the final OS 9.2.2 installation. Kris, you have made similar assertions on numerous occasions over this group. With all due respect, I still cannot agree with you. In my rather large current collection of Mac OS Universal-Install (Retail) DVD/CD/floppy sets, there are several original OS 9.2.1CDs, that are white with the orange/yellow '9' on it (Apple Number 691-3334-A). In fact, HardCoreMac.com sells such CDs for $160: http://hardcoremac.stores.yahoo.net/macos921cd.html Such Universal-Install OS 9.2.1 CDs also come up on eBay relatively frequently for much less. At one time I had a similar Universal-Install OS 9.2.2 CD, also white with the orange/yellow '9' on it, that Dana referred to. Since I sold it to a LEM Swap Group buyer, who claimed to be in desperate need for it, a few years ago, I am no longer in a strong position to argue with you about that. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 30, 2011, at 6:38 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: I have a disc labeled 9.2.1. I got the MDD and Apple sent this for $10 shortly after as part of some upgrade program. I don't believe there's such as thing as a 9.2.2 universal install CD. The final retail OS 9 disc was the OS 9.1 disc that's white with the orange/yellow 9 on it. This disc installs OS 9.1 and is the only universal disc I'm aware of. It requires both a 9.2.1 and a 9.2.2 update to reach the final OS 9.2.2 installation. All you need is a special ROM to put in the system folder and OS 9.2.2 boots on these machines. JOHN CARMONNE Yorba Linda USA From TiBook 867 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 31, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Fabian Fang wrote: Kris, you have made similar assertions on numerous occasions over this group. With all due respect, I still cannot agree with you. I stand corrected. But, a white disc with the 9 on it is the only retail disc, none of the grey discs are retail even if they will install a bootable System on most any Mac. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On 1/29/11 11:46 PM, Kris Tilford of ktilfo...@cox.net sent On Jan 29, 2011, at 9:27 PM, DLC wrote: If I boot into OS 9 straight (normal), I will not get a screen to show (remains black) - lack of HD activity makes me suspect that no booting is engaged either. By normal I assume you mean selecting the OX 9 in Startup Disk? Since support for Classic ended at OS 10.4.11, there's a chance that Startup Disk in 10.5.8 doesn't handle OS 9 booting correctly? 10.5.8 is unsupported for the Quicksilver. There's another way to select OS 9 or OS X by keyboard commands. You can hold the 9 key to boot OS 9, or the X key to boot OS X. IF, however, I start up, hold left-shift key, and then choose OS 9 from the OS selection panel that appears, the unit boots into OS 9 and operates fine. I think you mean the Option key rather than the left-Shift key. The Shift key gives a Safe Boot in OS X; and no extensions in OS 9. The Option key gives the bootable devices menu. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it, how often do you boot OS 9? If you use OS 9 that much, it'd probably be better to install OS 10.4.11 and use Classic emulation within OS X. As an added perk, Tiger is about 20% faster than Leopard on PPC CPUs. Hello Kris (and Clark), Thank you both for the input. Some clarification €Yes, I meant the left option key to call up the bootable device menu screen €No, I am not referring to Classic emulation within OS X 10.5 €If I call up the System Preference StartUp Disk, and select OS 9, then Restart the unit will not successfully boot into 9 (black/blank screen) If I repeat the scenario, but add the left-option key gesture, the QS WILL boot up into OS 9 €The QS DID boot up off the OS 9.22 (universal install) CD (so that install of the OS was successful), but on the subsequent restart was treated to my black screen of death €If this is consistent enough, I'll leave it as is - I'll have to acquiesce to the actual owner's wishes; if he really needs to get into OS 9 consistently, I would back it down to Tiger, as (yes, I agree) it is faster on PPCs as you said, Kris. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that that would not solve the problem :-) Am curious if the QS needs a certain enabler in OS 9 - were enablers needed by this time (2001-02)? I seem to recall that the MDDs, in using 9.2.2, needed a machine-specific extension/ROM image added to the System Folder. In the end, I find this curious (and not obstructive), as when the unit IS in OS 9, it runs just fine (as it does in OS X). Thanks, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 30, 2011, at 3:49 PM, Dana Collins wrote: QS DID boot up off the OS 9.22 (universal install) CD (so that install of the OS was successful) I don't believe there's such as thing as a 9.2.2 universal install CD. The final retail OS 9 disc was the OS 9.1 disc that's white with the orange/yellow 9 on it. This disc installs OS 9.1 and is the only universal disc I'm aware of. It requires both a 9.2.1 and a 9.2.2 update to reach the final OS 9.2.2 installation. There were quite a few of the grey OS 9.2.1 discs that shipped with most of the G3 G4 Macs that came with OS X as the original OEM OS. The only 9.2.2 discs I'm aware of came with the MDD and were specific to the MDD. There's also the free download of the 9.2.2 netboot OS X installer package:http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1192 If you use this, remove the two netboot extensions from the System FolderExtensions Folder. but on the subsequent restart was treated to my black screen of death It sure sounds like what you're calling your black screen of death is simply a computer that isn't finding a bootable drive. Normally a Mac would eventually default back to a firmware screen with an icon of a folder with a flashing ? on it. Since you're not seeing this, and you've said the HDs aren't doing anything, it doesn't seem likely to me that it's a video card issue. It seems like a PRAM/NVRAM issue. You should reset the NVRAM using these instructions: 1)Boot holding the Cmd-Opt-O-F keys 2)at the Open Firmware prompt, type: set-defaultsReturn reset-allReturn where Return means to hit the Return key You should see a response of ok to the 1st command, and a restart after hitting the Return key of the 2nd command. Hopefully this will straighten out your startup disk issues. If not, you may have a bad HD or other hardware issue? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
I have a disc labeled 9.2.1. I got the MDD and Apple sent this for $10 shortly after as part of some upgrade program. I don't believe there's such as thing as a 9.2.2 universal install CD. The final retail OS 9 disc was the OS 9.1 disc that's white with the orange/yellow 9 on it. This disc installs OS 9.1 and is the only universal disc I'm aware of. It requires both a 9.2.1 and a 9.2.2 update to reach the final OS 9.2.2 installation. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 30, 2011, at 8:38 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: I have a disc labeled 9.2.1. Yes, this is the standard grey semi-universal disc that ships with Macs that come with OS X standard. It will install a bootable System on almost all Macs, so it's universal in the sense that you'll get a bootable System, but it's not universal in the sense that it's missing extensions for earlier PowerMac models that didn't ship with OS X. For example, the Beige G3 series requires special extensions to enable the Wings AV personality card, and while the grey disc will give you 9.2.1 that boots, it won't enable the Wings AV card, so it's not a universal installer. I got the MDD and Apple sent this for $10 shortly after as part of some upgrade program. The MDD shipped with Jaguar 10.2. Retail boxes of Jaguar 10.2 also contained a retail 9.1 CD. The grey 9.2.1 was probably an additional disc with a Panther upgrade disc set? The grey 9.2.1 disc is very common, more common than the 9.1 retail disc. For most purposes, the differences between these discs (white 9.1 retail grey 9.2.1 universal) is negligible, but in certain rare circumstances it can be slightly problematic. If your 9.2.1 disc was shipped for a MDD, it's likely the rarest 9.2 disc, the special MDD disc that adds specific support for the MDD only. I don't know, but I assume the special MDD disc is a superset disc that will work on all earlier Macs also? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
Hi Kris, As below: On 1/30/11 7:08 PM, Kris Tilford of ktilfo...@cox.net sent On Jan 30, 2011, at 3:49 PM, Dana Collins wrote: QS DID boot up off the OS 9.22 (universal install) CD (so that install of the OS was successful) I don't believe there's such as thing as a 9.2.2 universal install CD. The final retail OS 9 disc was the OS 9.1 disc that's white with the orange/yellow 9 on it. This disc installs OS 9.1 and is the only universal disc I'm aware of. It requires both a 9.2.1 and a 9.2.2 update to reach the final OS 9.2.2 installation. There were quite a few of the grey OS 9.2.1 discs that shipped with most of the G3 G4 Macs that came with OS X as the original OEM OS. The only 9.2.2 discs I'm aware of came with the MDD and were specific to the MDD. There's also the free download of the 9.2.2 netboot OS X installer package:http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1192 If you use this, remove the two netboot extensions from the System FolderExtensions Folder. I have been using a retail install of OS 9.2.1. It was a disc that came as part of a package set issued by Apple which included OS 10.2 and some educator's development tools. Then using a .img of 9.2.2 update to arrive at my final destination. but on the subsequent restart was treated to my black screen of death It sure sounds like what you're calling your black screen of death is simply a computer that isn't finding a bootable drive. Normally a Mac would eventually default back to a firmware screen with an icon of a folder with a flashing ? on it. Since you're not seeing this, and you've said the HDs aren't doing anything, it doesn't seem likely to me that it's a video card issue. It seems like a PRAM/NVRAM issue. You should reset the NVRAM using these instructions: 1)Boot holding the Cmd-Opt-O-F keys 2)at the Open Firmware prompt, type: set-defaultsReturn reset-allReturn Did this, no change for better, or worse where Return means to hit the Return key You should see a response of ok to the 1st command, and a restart after hitting the Return key of the 2nd command. Hopefully this will straighten out your startup disk issues. If not, you may have a bad HD or other hardware issue? This may help. I have developed a scenario, involving the boot up from left-option key, then select the OS 9 (.22) drive, then holding down the left-shift (as if I want to start w/ no extensions). What happens is, immediately after the OS 9.2 splash screen (happy Mac 2-face), I get the following message: The built-in memory test has detected a problem with cache memory. Please contact a service technician for assistance. The OS then proceeds to boot (with extensions - no-extensions keystroke ignored) normally, and operate normally. This warning is splayed even after turning off the memory test and reducing the system cache. It would help if I knew this: does anyone know IF the OWC Mercury G4 (1.5GHz, rev. 2, not 3) processor upgrade was supposed to have an L3 cache or not? Here's a picture for identification: http://eshop.macsales.com/images/Items/owcmeg4/card.jpg About this Mac in Leopard does not show an L3 cache present, so I'm just wondering. Thank you for the consideration. Best regards, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On 1/30/11 10:11 PM, Kris Tilford of ktilfo...@cox.net sent On Jan 30, 2011, at 8:38 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: I have a disc labeled 9.2.1. Yes, this is the standard grey semi-universal disc that ships with Macs that come with OS X standard. It will install a bootable System on almost all Macs, so it's universal in the sense that you'll get a bootable System, but it's not universal in the sense that it's missing extensions for earlier PowerMac models that didn't ship with OS X. For example, the Beige G3 series requires special extensions to enable the Wings AV personality card, and while the grey disc will give you 9.2.1 that boots, it won't enable the Wings AV card, so it's not a universal installer. I got the MDD and Apple sent this for $10 shortly after as part of some upgrade program. The MDD shipped with Jaguar 10.2. Retail boxes of Jaguar 10.2 also contained a retail 9.1 CD. The grey 9.2.1 was probably an additional disc with a Panther upgrade disc set? The grey 9.2.1 disc is very common, more common than the 9.1 retail disc. For most purposes, the differences between these discs (white 9.1 retail grey 9.2.1 universal) is negligible, but in certain rare circumstances it can be slightly problematic. If your 9.2.1 disc was shipped for a MDD, it's likely the rarest 9.2 disc, the special MDD disc that adds specific support for the MDD only. I don't know, but I assume the special MDD disc is a superset disc that will work on all earlier Macs also? Hi Kris, Sent you and everyone a longer response with some new, maybe telling, developments. My OS 9.2.1 install CD is as you described: white background, big yellow 9 in the center, apropos logos and copyright stuff on it. Part no. 691-3334-A. I used this to install the OS 2nd time around. First time was indeed a universal grey label version of 9.2.2 - I scrubbed the drive clean and used this retail version of 9.2.1 hoping that it might make some sort of difference. Thanks, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 30, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Dana Collins wrote: The built-in memory test has detected a problem with cache memory. Please contact a service technician for assistance. The OS then proceeds to boot (with extensions - no-extensions keystroke ignored) normally, and operate normally. This warning is splayed even after turning off the memory test and reducing the system cache. Normally on upgrade CPUs you need to use a 3rd-party cache enabler software, which would be required in both OS 9.x and OS X. The specific enabler isn't normally important, they either work, or they don't. My preferences from best to worst would be: PowerLogix CPU Director, Sonnet Cache, XLR8 MachSpeed Control (NOT FREE), followed by a bunch of others that are normally not worth messing with. I'd suggest you install these cache control extensions for both OS 9.x and OS X. You should be able to see if the cache is correctly enabled in Apple System Profiler or System Profiler. If it's not enabled correctly, you should be able to tell easily, everything will be SLOW. I'm not sure why you're having to boot OS 9.2.2 with extensions off? I don't remember you saying anything about an extension conflict or issue? I thought you said if you used the Option key alone it would boot OK? Have you tried the 9 X keyboard boots? Sorting out an extension problem can be time consuming. Most extensions are shown in the parade and if you're having a problem right at the start, it's likely a very basic extension. I know the better cache enabler extensions load first so that the cache can speed up the entire boot process. If the cache loads later, everything is slow until the cache enabler extension loads. The video extensions also load early. Generally you have to use Extensions Manager to turn-off specific extensions until you find the specific extension causing the problem. Often making new sets can help. For example, you can duplicate the set that's causing problems, and then turn off the 1st half of the extensions and boot with only the 2nd half. You'll still have the original unaltered set for backup, and when you boot with half extension set you should quickly know which half of these extensions contains the conflict. Then you repeat, splitting the offending set again, and again, until you get to the single specific extension that's causing the problem. It gets harder with two bad extensions, and nearly impossible with three, so if you have an extension conflict, hope it's only one. It sounds like a problem with your CPU upgrade, which may require reseating the CPU if you can't get it working normally. I just realized, you may already have working cache software installed because any time you boot holding the Shift key for extensions-off you'll disable the cache extension and should always get that warning message. If your only problem is that you need to hold the Option key to boot into OS 9, that's not much of a problem, I'd live with it. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
Greetings all, Am curious if anyone else has had this issue: QuickSilver, Logic Board Rev. 2002, powered via an OWC 1.5GHz (single CPU) Mercury, rev. 2 (fully compatible w/ OS 9.2.1 and 9.2.2, according to their manual), - running OS 10.5.8 (wonderfully, I might add) on one HD, and a successfully installed OS 9.2.2 from a universal-install CD. An ATI Radeon 32Mb (7500, I believe) is the video card. The Firmware version on this unit is 4.3.3 If I boot into OS 9 straight (normal), I will not get a screen to show (remains black) - lack of HD activity makes me suspect that no booting is engaged either. IF, however, I start up, hold left-shift key, and then choose OS 9 from the OS selection panel that appears, the unit boots into OS 9 and operates fine. Booting into OS X is fine no matter what. Any explanations handy? Thanks for listening, Dana -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 29, 2011, at 7:27 PM, DLC wrote: Greetings all, Am curious if anyone else has had this issue: QuickSilver, Logic Board Rev. 2002, powered via an OWC 1.5GHz (single CPU) Mercury, rev. 2 (fully compatible w/ OS 9.2.1 and 9.2.2, according to their manual), - running OS 10.5.8 (wonderfully, I might add) on one HD, and a successfully installed OS 9.2.2 from a universal-install CD. An ATI Radeon 32Mb (7500, I believe) is the video card. The Firmware version on this unit is 4.3.3 If I boot into OS 9 straight (normal), I will not get a screen to show (remains black) - lack of HD activity makes me suspect that no booting is engaged either. IF, however, I start up, hold left-shift key, and then choose OS 9 from the OS selection panel that appears, the unit boots into OS 9 and operates fine. Booting into OS X is fine no matter what. How are you selecting to boot into OS 9? You say left-shift key, are you sure that isn't the option key? That is how one normally gets the OS selection. Is it possible you have two OS 9 installs, one that works and one that doesn't. The OS X Startup Disk System Preference will show you which drive holds which bootable system. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Odd QuickSilver Dual boot behavior
On Jan 29, 2011, at 9:27 PM, DLC wrote: If I boot into OS 9 straight (normal), I will not get a screen to show (remains black) - lack of HD activity makes me suspect that no booting is engaged either. By normal I assume you mean selecting the OX 9 in Startup Disk? Since support for Classic ended at OS 10.4.11, there's a chance that Startup Disk in 10.5.8 doesn't handle OS 9 booting correctly? 10.5.8 is unsupported for the Quicksilver. There's another way to select OS 9 or OS X by keyboard commands. You can hold the 9 key to boot OS 9, or the X key to boot OS X. IF, however, I start up, hold left-shift key, and then choose OS 9 from the OS selection panel that appears, the unit boots into OS 9 and operates fine. I think you mean the Option key rather than the left-Shift key. The Shift key gives a Safe Boot in OS X; and no extensions in OS 9. The Option key gives the bootable devices menu. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it, how often do you boot OS 9? If you use OS 9 that much, it'd probably be better to install OS 10.4.11 and use Classic emulation within OS X. As an added perk, Tiger is about 20% faster than Leopard on PPC CPUs. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
